Does the Bracer of Flying Daggers benefit from the Dueling fighting style?












10












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The Dueling Fighting style description says:




When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.




The Bracer of Flying Daggers magic item (from Waterdeep: Dragon Heist, p. 190):




This armband appears to have thin daggers strapped to it. As an action, you can pull up to two magic daggers from the bracer and immediately hurl them, making a ranged attack with each dagger. A dagger vanishes if you don't hurl it right away, and the daggers disappear right after they hit or miss. The bracer never runs out of daggers.




If you have the Dueling fighting style, your hands are empty, and you activate the Bracer, do you get the damage bonus to both throws?










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  • 6




    $begingroup$
    Related: Does Dueling Fighting Style apply to thrown weapons?
    $endgroup$
    – Sdjz
    11 hours ago
















10












$begingroup$


The Dueling Fighting style description says:




When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.




The Bracer of Flying Daggers magic item (from Waterdeep: Dragon Heist, p. 190):




This armband appears to have thin daggers strapped to it. As an action, you can pull up to two magic daggers from the bracer and immediately hurl them, making a ranged attack with each dagger. A dagger vanishes if you don't hurl it right away, and the daggers disappear right after they hit or miss. The bracer never runs out of daggers.




If you have the Dueling fighting style, your hands are empty, and you activate the Bracer, do you get the damage bonus to both throws?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 6




    $begingroup$
    Related: Does Dueling Fighting Style apply to thrown weapons?
    $endgroup$
    – Sdjz
    11 hours ago














10












10








10


1



$begingroup$


The Dueling Fighting style description says:




When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.




The Bracer of Flying Daggers magic item (from Waterdeep: Dragon Heist, p. 190):




This armband appears to have thin daggers strapped to it. As an action, you can pull up to two magic daggers from the bracer and immediately hurl them, making a ranged attack with each dagger. A dagger vanishes if you don't hurl it right away, and the daggers disappear right after they hit or miss. The bracer never runs out of daggers.




If you have the Dueling fighting style, your hands are empty, and you activate the Bracer, do you get the damage bonus to both throws?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




The Dueling Fighting style description says:




When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.




The Bracer of Flying Daggers magic item (from Waterdeep: Dragon Heist, p. 190):




This armband appears to have thin daggers strapped to it. As an action, you can pull up to two magic daggers from the bracer and immediately hurl them, making a ranged attack with each dagger. A dagger vanishes if you don't hurl it right away, and the daggers disappear right after they hit or miss. The bracer never runs out of daggers.




If you have the Dueling fighting style, your hands are empty, and you activate the Bracer, do you get the damage bonus to both throws?







dnd-5e magic-items class-feature damage fighting-style






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share|improve this question













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share|improve this question








edited 4 hours ago









V2Blast

24.3k381154




24.3k381154










asked 11 hours ago









Ben BardenBen Barden

10.7k12763




10.7k12763








  • 6




    $begingroup$
    Related: Does Dueling Fighting Style apply to thrown weapons?
    $endgroup$
    – Sdjz
    11 hours ago














  • 6




    $begingroup$
    Related: Does Dueling Fighting Style apply to thrown weapons?
    $endgroup$
    – Sdjz
    11 hours ago








6




6




$begingroup$
Related: Does Dueling Fighting Style apply to thrown weapons?
$endgroup$
– Sdjz
11 hours ago




$begingroup$
Related: Does Dueling Fighting Style apply to thrown weapons?
$endgroup$
– Sdjz
11 hours ago










3 Answers
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8












$begingroup$

The question is whether thrown melee weapons qualify for Dueling or not



The description specifies that you pull daggers out of the armband (despite the logistically problems of sticking a full-sized dagger in an armband. I would have gone with knives had I designed it), which are on the melee weapon table and therefore are melee weapons (magical ones, no less). You obviously don't have another weapon in your other hand, so all we need to know is whether throwing a melee weapons counts as "wielding" the weapon.



There is no game-definition for "wielding", so we rely on common English to understand it. Google gives this definition for "wield":




hold and use (a weapon or tool).




Under that definition, and in my own opinion, I'd say that throwing a melee weapon counts as wielding it for the purposes of Dueling.



Crawford agrees that Dueling applies to thrown weapons, for what that is worth (keeping in mind his Sage Advice tweets are unofficial).



The related question Does Dueling Fighting Style apply to thrown weapons? has arguments for and against this ruling.





This is a poorly worded item



It is unclear whether you are drawing both daggers at once in both hands, or one at a time, or what. For some interpretations it would matter whether you are drawing both at once, or if you are throwing both at once, but this is mine: I assume you are drawing one, throwing one, then repeating. If you draw one, immediately hurl it, then draw another and immediately hurl it, you've still drawn 2 daggers and immediately hurled them.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 2




    $begingroup$
    But Dueling says " a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons" wouldn't holding two daggers in one hand count (or one in each hand)? Or are you interpreting the arm band as letting you draw them one at a time?
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    11 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    @Rubiksmoose I assumed you would draw-> throw 1 dagger at a time, up to twice. I could see an argument that Dueling would only apply to 1 dagger, or the 2nd if 2 are drawn, but that is too low level for me to really care about. Either apply it to the whole thing or not.
    $endgroup$
    – GreySage
    10 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Well, the text just says as an action you can draw up to two. So in your action you are drawing 1 or 2 daggers and then throwing them immediately.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    10 hours ago






  • 5




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    For what it's worth, DNDBeyond calls it the Bracer of Flying Daggers, no plural on "bracer". I believe calling the item "bracers" is a typo on the OP's part.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    10 hours ago



















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Only to one throw, not to both



Short of contradicting evidence, the Daggers summoned by the Bracers of Flying Daggers are in every respect identical to regular, PHB Daggers, except for the added properties that they vanish if not thrown or after they are thrown, and you are allowed to make two attacks with them regardless of your [in-]ability to use the Extra Attacks feature.



Because of this, a character would obviously benefit from their Dueling feature: Daggers are a one-handed weapon, can be thrown with a single hand, and thrown weapons benefit from the Dueling feature*, so you should get the Dueling bonus.



There is a catch though:




Dueling. When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.




If you draw two daggers from the bracer, you'd be holding two weapons, which violates the requirements of the feature. So at the very least, the first dagger thrown would not benefit.



The feature seems to imply that both are thrown at the same time, meaning neither dagger would benefit, but if your DM decides there's a "happens-before" relationship between the two attack rolls (i.e. one definitely happens before the other), then the second dagger would probably benefit.



This becomes moot, however, if you draw only a single dagger and throw it, since the requirements of Dueling would then be satisfied—and since the bracer says you may draw "up to two" daggers, you're fully allowed to draw only a single dagger.



* the top answer in that post contradicts RAI, and I recommend looking at the second answer instead.






share|improve this answer









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  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @NautArch As I understand it, you're allowed to draw "up to two" daggers from the bracer, meaning you're allowed to draw (and then throw) only one if you so choose. As I said, if you draw two, then at least one of the daggers (and probably both) would not benefit from Dueling, but if you draw only one, then it's logical that you would benefit.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    10 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    Thanks for the clarification. This looks solid +1.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    10 hours ago



















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Dueling will benefit in this situation depending on the interpretation you use



The Dueling fighting style states:




When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.




Daggers appear on the melee weapon table and the dueling fighting style requires a melee weapon. It does not say that it requires a melee weapon attack. This sounds like we're on the right track but, in throwing the melee weapon to make a ranged attack, it is no longer in your hand.



One argument is that the dagger is in hand at the moment the attack is initiated. However, the attack does not become a ranged attack until the instant the weapon leaves the hand. Therefore, the dagger not being in the hand is integral to it being a ranged attack (not a melee attack) and, as such, Dueling would not benefit the knives if they are thrown.





That all said, Jeremy Crawford has stated in a (now unofficial) Tweet that you can interpret the Dueling to allow the bonus to apply to ranged attacks. This is outside of the PHB but it's from the lead rules designer, so one could make a case either way and have strong support for the argument. As such, it probably depends on which argument the DM finds more persuasive.






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  • $begingroup$
    That disagrees with the logic of the accepted answer to the linked question.
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    11 hours ago






  • 5




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    @BenBarden accepted only means it was most useful to OP. It doesn't automatically mean correct. FWIW the votes seem pretty close between the first and second answer. Hardly decisive I'd say. Also, neither directly means that the logic in this answer is incorrect.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    10 hours ago












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    @ben I think Miniman and I have the same interpretation but he concedes that Jeremy Crawford, a higher authority, allows the interpretation that it will work. I will add the same caveat to this answer.
    $endgroup$
    – Rykara
    10 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    @Rykara though as that ruling came from a tweet, no longer officially a higher power regardless. RAI at most.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    10 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @rubik Can't edit my comment anymore but I meant "higher power than me," not the PHB, sorry. Thanks for editing to help clarify.
    $endgroup$
    – Rykara
    10 hours ago











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3 Answers
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3 Answers
3






active

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active

oldest

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active

oldest

votes









8












$begingroup$

The question is whether thrown melee weapons qualify for Dueling or not



The description specifies that you pull daggers out of the armband (despite the logistically problems of sticking a full-sized dagger in an armband. I would have gone with knives had I designed it), which are on the melee weapon table and therefore are melee weapons (magical ones, no less). You obviously don't have another weapon in your other hand, so all we need to know is whether throwing a melee weapons counts as "wielding" the weapon.



There is no game-definition for "wielding", so we rely on common English to understand it. Google gives this definition for "wield":




hold and use (a weapon or tool).




Under that definition, and in my own opinion, I'd say that throwing a melee weapon counts as wielding it for the purposes of Dueling.



Crawford agrees that Dueling applies to thrown weapons, for what that is worth (keeping in mind his Sage Advice tweets are unofficial).



The related question Does Dueling Fighting Style apply to thrown weapons? has arguments for and against this ruling.





This is a poorly worded item



It is unclear whether you are drawing both daggers at once in both hands, or one at a time, or what. For some interpretations it would matter whether you are drawing both at once, or if you are throwing both at once, but this is mine: I assume you are drawing one, throwing one, then repeating. If you draw one, immediately hurl it, then draw another and immediately hurl it, you've still drawn 2 daggers and immediately hurled them.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 2




    $begingroup$
    But Dueling says " a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons" wouldn't holding two daggers in one hand count (or one in each hand)? Or are you interpreting the arm band as letting you draw them one at a time?
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    11 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    @Rubiksmoose I assumed you would draw-> throw 1 dagger at a time, up to twice. I could see an argument that Dueling would only apply to 1 dagger, or the 2nd if 2 are drawn, but that is too low level for me to really care about. Either apply it to the whole thing or not.
    $endgroup$
    – GreySage
    10 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Well, the text just says as an action you can draw up to two. So in your action you are drawing 1 or 2 daggers and then throwing them immediately.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    10 hours ago






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    For what it's worth, DNDBeyond calls it the Bracer of Flying Daggers, no plural on "bracer". I believe calling the item "bracers" is a typo on the OP's part.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    10 hours ago
















8












$begingroup$

The question is whether thrown melee weapons qualify for Dueling or not



The description specifies that you pull daggers out of the armband (despite the logistically problems of sticking a full-sized dagger in an armband. I would have gone with knives had I designed it), which are on the melee weapon table and therefore are melee weapons (magical ones, no less). You obviously don't have another weapon in your other hand, so all we need to know is whether throwing a melee weapons counts as "wielding" the weapon.



There is no game-definition for "wielding", so we rely on common English to understand it. Google gives this definition for "wield":




hold and use (a weapon or tool).




Under that definition, and in my own opinion, I'd say that throwing a melee weapon counts as wielding it for the purposes of Dueling.



Crawford agrees that Dueling applies to thrown weapons, for what that is worth (keeping in mind his Sage Advice tweets are unofficial).



The related question Does Dueling Fighting Style apply to thrown weapons? has arguments for and against this ruling.





This is a poorly worded item



It is unclear whether you are drawing both daggers at once in both hands, or one at a time, or what. For some interpretations it would matter whether you are drawing both at once, or if you are throwing both at once, but this is mine: I assume you are drawing one, throwing one, then repeating. If you draw one, immediately hurl it, then draw another and immediately hurl it, you've still drawn 2 daggers and immediately hurled them.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 2




    $begingroup$
    But Dueling says " a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons" wouldn't holding two daggers in one hand count (or one in each hand)? Or are you interpreting the arm band as letting you draw them one at a time?
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    11 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    @Rubiksmoose I assumed you would draw-> throw 1 dagger at a time, up to twice. I could see an argument that Dueling would only apply to 1 dagger, or the 2nd if 2 are drawn, but that is too low level for me to really care about. Either apply it to the whole thing or not.
    $endgroup$
    – GreySage
    10 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Well, the text just says as an action you can draw up to two. So in your action you are drawing 1 or 2 daggers and then throwing them immediately.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    10 hours ago






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    For what it's worth, DNDBeyond calls it the Bracer of Flying Daggers, no plural on "bracer". I believe calling the item "bracers" is a typo on the OP's part.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    10 hours ago














8












8








8





$begingroup$

The question is whether thrown melee weapons qualify for Dueling or not



The description specifies that you pull daggers out of the armband (despite the logistically problems of sticking a full-sized dagger in an armband. I would have gone with knives had I designed it), which are on the melee weapon table and therefore are melee weapons (magical ones, no less). You obviously don't have another weapon in your other hand, so all we need to know is whether throwing a melee weapons counts as "wielding" the weapon.



There is no game-definition for "wielding", so we rely on common English to understand it. Google gives this definition for "wield":




hold and use (a weapon or tool).




Under that definition, and in my own opinion, I'd say that throwing a melee weapon counts as wielding it for the purposes of Dueling.



Crawford agrees that Dueling applies to thrown weapons, for what that is worth (keeping in mind his Sage Advice tweets are unofficial).



The related question Does Dueling Fighting Style apply to thrown weapons? has arguments for and against this ruling.





This is a poorly worded item



It is unclear whether you are drawing both daggers at once in both hands, or one at a time, or what. For some interpretations it would matter whether you are drawing both at once, or if you are throwing both at once, but this is mine: I assume you are drawing one, throwing one, then repeating. If you draw one, immediately hurl it, then draw another and immediately hurl it, you've still drawn 2 daggers and immediately hurled them.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$



The question is whether thrown melee weapons qualify for Dueling or not



The description specifies that you pull daggers out of the armband (despite the logistically problems of sticking a full-sized dagger in an armband. I would have gone with knives had I designed it), which are on the melee weapon table and therefore are melee weapons (magical ones, no less). You obviously don't have another weapon in your other hand, so all we need to know is whether throwing a melee weapons counts as "wielding" the weapon.



There is no game-definition for "wielding", so we rely on common English to understand it. Google gives this definition for "wield":




hold and use (a weapon or tool).




Under that definition, and in my own opinion, I'd say that throwing a melee weapon counts as wielding it for the purposes of Dueling.



Crawford agrees that Dueling applies to thrown weapons, for what that is worth (keeping in mind his Sage Advice tweets are unofficial).



The related question Does Dueling Fighting Style apply to thrown weapons? has arguments for and against this ruling.





This is a poorly worded item



It is unclear whether you are drawing both daggers at once in both hands, or one at a time, or what. For some interpretations it would matter whether you are drawing both at once, or if you are throwing both at once, but this is mine: I assume you are drawing one, throwing one, then repeating. If you draw one, immediately hurl it, then draw another and immediately hurl it, you've still drawn 2 daggers and immediately hurled them.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 10 hours ago

























answered 11 hours ago









GreySageGreySage

15.7k45396




15.7k45396








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    But Dueling says " a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons" wouldn't holding two daggers in one hand count (or one in each hand)? Or are you interpreting the arm band as letting you draw them one at a time?
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    11 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    @Rubiksmoose I assumed you would draw-> throw 1 dagger at a time, up to twice. I could see an argument that Dueling would only apply to 1 dagger, or the 2nd if 2 are drawn, but that is too low level for me to really care about. Either apply it to the whole thing or not.
    $endgroup$
    – GreySage
    10 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Well, the text just says as an action you can draw up to two. So in your action you are drawing 1 or 2 daggers and then throwing them immediately.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    10 hours ago






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    For what it's worth, DNDBeyond calls it the Bracer of Flying Daggers, no plural on "bracer". I believe calling the item "bracers" is a typo on the OP's part.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    10 hours ago














  • 2




    $begingroup$
    But Dueling says " a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons" wouldn't holding two daggers in one hand count (or one in each hand)? Or are you interpreting the arm band as letting you draw them one at a time?
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    11 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    @Rubiksmoose I assumed you would draw-> throw 1 dagger at a time, up to twice. I could see an argument that Dueling would only apply to 1 dagger, or the 2nd if 2 are drawn, but that is too low level for me to really care about. Either apply it to the whole thing or not.
    $endgroup$
    – GreySage
    10 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Well, the text just says as an action you can draw up to two. So in your action you are drawing 1 or 2 daggers and then throwing them immediately.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    10 hours ago






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    For what it's worth, DNDBeyond calls it the Bracer of Flying Daggers, no plural on "bracer". I believe calling the item "bracers" is a typo on the OP's part.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    10 hours ago








2




2




$begingroup$
But Dueling says " a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons" wouldn't holding two daggers in one hand count (or one in each hand)? Or are you interpreting the arm band as letting you draw them one at a time?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
11 hours ago






$begingroup$
But Dueling says " a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons" wouldn't holding two daggers in one hand count (or one in each hand)? Or are you interpreting the arm band as letting you draw them one at a time?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
11 hours ago














$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose I assumed you would draw-> throw 1 dagger at a time, up to twice. I could see an argument that Dueling would only apply to 1 dagger, or the 2nd if 2 are drawn, but that is too low level for me to really care about. Either apply it to the whole thing or not.
$endgroup$
– GreySage
10 hours ago




$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose I assumed you would draw-> throw 1 dagger at a time, up to twice. I could see an argument that Dueling would only apply to 1 dagger, or the 2nd if 2 are drawn, but that is too low level for me to really care about. Either apply it to the whole thing or not.
$endgroup$
– GreySage
10 hours ago












$begingroup$
Well, the text just says as an action you can draw up to two. So in your action you are drawing 1 or 2 daggers and then throwing them immediately.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
10 hours ago




$begingroup$
Well, the text just says as an action you can draw up to two. So in your action you are drawing 1 or 2 daggers and then throwing them immediately.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
10 hours ago




5




5




$begingroup$
For what it's worth, DNDBeyond calls it the Bracer of Flying Daggers, no plural on "bracer". I believe calling the item "bracers" is a typo on the OP's part.
$endgroup$
– Xirema
10 hours ago




$begingroup$
For what it's worth, DNDBeyond calls it the Bracer of Flying Daggers, no plural on "bracer". I believe calling the item "bracers" is a typo on the OP's part.
$endgroup$
– Xirema
10 hours ago













4












$begingroup$

Only to one throw, not to both



Short of contradicting evidence, the Daggers summoned by the Bracers of Flying Daggers are in every respect identical to regular, PHB Daggers, except for the added properties that they vanish if not thrown or after they are thrown, and you are allowed to make two attacks with them regardless of your [in-]ability to use the Extra Attacks feature.



Because of this, a character would obviously benefit from their Dueling feature: Daggers are a one-handed weapon, can be thrown with a single hand, and thrown weapons benefit from the Dueling feature*, so you should get the Dueling bonus.



There is a catch though:




Dueling. When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.




If you draw two daggers from the bracer, you'd be holding two weapons, which violates the requirements of the feature. So at the very least, the first dagger thrown would not benefit.



The feature seems to imply that both are thrown at the same time, meaning neither dagger would benefit, but if your DM decides there's a "happens-before" relationship between the two attack rolls (i.e. one definitely happens before the other), then the second dagger would probably benefit.



This becomes moot, however, if you draw only a single dagger and throw it, since the requirements of Dueling would then be satisfied—and since the bracer says you may draw "up to two" daggers, you're fully allowed to draw only a single dagger.



* the top answer in that post contradicts RAI, and I recommend looking at the second answer instead.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @NautArch As I understand it, you're allowed to draw "up to two" daggers from the bracer, meaning you're allowed to draw (and then throw) only one if you so choose. As I said, if you draw two, then at least one of the daggers (and probably both) would not benefit from Dueling, but if you draw only one, then it's logical that you would benefit.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    10 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    Thanks for the clarification. This looks solid +1.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    10 hours ago
















4












$begingroup$

Only to one throw, not to both



Short of contradicting evidence, the Daggers summoned by the Bracers of Flying Daggers are in every respect identical to regular, PHB Daggers, except for the added properties that they vanish if not thrown or after they are thrown, and you are allowed to make two attacks with them regardless of your [in-]ability to use the Extra Attacks feature.



Because of this, a character would obviously benefit from their Dueling feature: Daggers are a one-handed weapon, can be thrown with a single hand, and thrown weapons benefit from the Dueling feature*, so you should get the Dueling bonus.



There is a catch though:




Dueling. When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.




If you draw two daggers from the bracer, you'd be holding two weapons, which violates the requirements of the feature. So at the very least, the first dagger thrown would not benefit.



The feature seems to imply that both are thrown at the same time, meaning neither dagger would benefit, but if your DM decides there's a "happens-before" relationship between the two attack rolls (i.e. one definitely happens before the other), then the second dagger would probably benefit.



This becomes moot, however, if you draw only a single dagger and throw it, since the requirements of Dueling would then be satisfied—and since the bracer says you may draw "up to two" daggers, you're fully allowed to draw only a single dagger.



* the top answer in that post contradicts RAI, and I recommend looking at the second answer instead.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @NautArch As I understand it, you're allowed to draw "up to two" daggers from the bracer, meaning you're allowed to draw (and then throw) only one if you so choose. As I said, if you draw two, then at least one of the daggers (and probably both) would not benefit from Dueling, but if you draw only one, then it's logical that you would benefit.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    10 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    Thanks for the clarification. This looks solid +1.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    10 hours ago














4












4








4





$begingroup$

Only to one throw, not to both



Short of contradicting evidence, the Daggers summoned by the Bracers of Flying Daggers are in every respect identical to regular, PHB Daggers, except for the added properties that they vanish if not thrown or after they are thrown, and you are allowed to make two attacks with them regardless of your [in-]ability to use the Extra Attacks feature.



Because of this, a character would obviously benefit from their Dueling feature: Daggers are a one-handed weapon, can be thrown with a single hand, and thrown weapons benefit from the Dueling feature*, so you should get the Dueling bonus.



There is a catch though:




Dueling. When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.




If you draw two daggers from the bracer, you'd be holding two weapons, which violates the requirements of the feature. So at the very least, the first dagger thrown would not benefit.



The feature seems to imply that both are thrown at the same time, meaning neither dagger would benefit, but if your DM decides there's a "happens-before" relationship between the two attack rolls (i.e. one definitely happens before the other), then the second dagger would probably benefit.



This becomes moot, however, if you draw only a single dagger and throw it, since the requirements of Dueling would then be satisfied—and since the bracer says you may draw "up to two" daggers, you're fully allowed to draw only a single dagger.



* the top answer in that post contradicts RAI, and I recommend looking at the second answer instead.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$



Only to one throw, not to both



Short of contradicting evidence, the Daggers summoned by the Bracers of Flying Daggers are in every respect identical to regular, PHB Daggers, except for the added properties that they vanish if not thrown or after they are thrown, and you are allowed to make two attacks with them regardless of your [in-]ability to use the Extra Attacks feature.



Because of this, a character would obviously benefit from their Dueling feature: Daggers are a one-handed weapon, can be thrown with a single hand, and thrown weapons benefit from the Dueling feature*, so you should get the Dueling bonus.



There is a catch though:




Dueling. When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.




If you draw two daggers from the bracer, you'd be holding two weapons, which violates the requirements of the feature. So at the very least, the first dagger thrown would not benefit.



The feature seems to imply that both are thrown at the same time, meaning neither dagger would benefit, but if your DM decides there's a "happens-before" relationship between the two attack rolls (i.e. one definitely happens before the other), then the second dagger would probably benefit.



This becomes moot, however, if you draw only a single dagger and throw it, since the requirements of Dueling would then be satisfied—and since the bracer says you may draw "up to two" daggers, you're fully allowed to draw only a single dagger.



* the top answer in that post contradicts RAI, and I recommend looking at the second answer instead.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 10 hours ago









XiremaXirema

21.3k263126




21.3k263126








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @NautArch As I understand it, you're allowed to draw "up to two" daggers from the bracer, meaning you're allowed to draw (and then throw) only one if you so choose. As I said, if you draw two, then at least one of the daggers (and probably both) would not benefit from Dueling, but if you draw only one, then it's logical that you would benefit.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    10 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    Thanks for the clarification. This looks solid +1.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    10 hours ago














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @NautArch As I understand it, you're allowed to draw "up to two" daggers from the bracer, meaning you're allowed to draw (and then throw) only one if you so choose. As I said, if you draw two, then at least one of the daggers (and probably both) would not benefit from Dueling, but if you draw only one, then it's logical that you would benefit.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    10 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    Thanks for the clarification. This looks solid +1.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    10 hours ago








1




1




$begingroup$
@NautArch As I understand it, you're allowed to draw "up to two" daggers from the bracer, meaning you're allowed to draw (and then throw) only one if you so choose. As I said, if you draw two, then at least one of the daggers (and probably both) would not benefit from Dueling, but if you draw only one, then it's logical that you would benefit.
$endgroup$
– Xirema
10 hours ago






$begingroup$
@NautArch As I understand it, you're allowed to draw "up to two" daggers from the bracer, meaning you're allowed to draw (and then throw) only one if you so choose. As I said, if you draw two, then at least one of the daggers (and probably both) would not benefit from Dueling, but if you draw only one, then it's logical that you would benefit.
$endgroup$
– Xirema
10 hours ago














$begingroup$
Thanks for the clarification. This looks solid +1.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
10 hours ago




$begingroup$
Thanks for the clarification. This looks solid +1.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
10 hours ago











4












$begingroup$

Dueling will benefit in this situation depending on the interpretation you use



The Dueling fighting style states:




When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.




Daggers appear on the melee weapon table and the dueling fighting style requires a melee weapon. It does not say that it requires a melee weapon attack. This sounds like we're on the right track but, in throwing the melee weapon to make a ranged attack, it is no longer in your hand.



One argument is that the dagger is in hand at the moment the attack is initiated. However, the attack does not become a ranged attack until the instant the weapon leaves the hand. Therefore, the dagger not being in the hand is integral to it being a ranged attack (not a melee attack) and, as such, Dueling would not benefit the knives if they are thrown.





That all said, Jeremy Crawford has stated in a (now unofficial) Tweet that you can interpret the Dueling to allow the bonus to apply to ranged attacks. This is outside of the PHB but it's from the lead rules designer, so one could make a case either way and have strong support for the argument. As such, it probably depends on which argument the DM finds more persuasive.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    That disagrees with the logic of the accepted answer to the linked question.
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    11 hours ago






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    @BenBarden accepted only means it was most useful to OP. It doesn't automatically mean correct. FWIW the votes seem pretty close between the first and second answer. Hardly decisive I'd say. Also, neither directly means that the logic in this answer is incorrect.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    10 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    @ben I think Miniman and I have the same interpretation but he concedes that Jeremy Crawford, a higher authority, allows the interpretation that it will work. I will add the same caveat to this answer.
    $endgroup$
    – Rykara
    10 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    @Rykara though as that ruling came from a tweet, no longer officially a higher power regardless. RAI at most.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    10 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @rubik Can't edit my comment anymore but I meant "higher power than me," not the PHB, sorry. Thanks for editing to help clarify.
    $endgroup$
    – Rykara
    10 hours ago
















4












$begingroup$

Dueling will benefit in this situation depending on the interpretation you use



The Dueling fighting style states:




When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.




Daggers appear on the melee weapon table and the dueling fighting style requires a melee weapon. It does not say that it requires a melee weapon attack. This sounds like we're on the right track but, in throwing the melee weapon to make a ranged attack, it is no longer in your hand.



One argument is that the dagger is in hand at the moment the attack is initiated. However, the attack does not become a ranged attack until the instant the weapon leaves the hand. Therefore, the dagger not being in the hand is integral to it being a ranged attack (not a melee attack) and, as such, Dueling would not benefit the knives if they are thrown.





That all said, Jeremy Crawford has stated in a (now unofficial) Tweet that you can interpret the Dueling to allow the bonus to apply to ranged attacks. This is outside of the PHB but it's from the lead rules designer, so one could make a case either way and have strong support for the argument. As such, it probably depends on which argument the DM finds more persuasive.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    That disagrees with the logic of the accepted answer to the linked question.
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    11 hours ago






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    @BenBarden accepted only means it was most useful to OP. It doesn't automatically mean correct. FWIW the votes seem pretty close between the first and second answer. Hardly decisive I'd say. Also, neither directly means that the logic in this answer is incorrect.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    10 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    @ben I think Miniman and I have the same interpretation but he concedes that Jeremy Crawford, a higher authority, allows the interpretation that it will work. I will add the same caveat to this answer.
    $endgroup$
    – Rykara
    10 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    @Rykara though as that ruling came from a tweet, no longer officially a higher power regardless. RAI at most.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    10 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @rubik Can't edit my comment anymore but I meant "higher power than me," not the PHB, sorry. Thanks for editing to help clarify.
    $endgroup$
    – Rykara
    10 hours ago














4












4








4





$begingroup$

Dueling will benefit in this situation depending on the interpretation you use



The Dueling fighting style states:




When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.




Daggers appear on the melee weapon table and the dueling fighting style requires a melee weapon. It does not say that it requires a melee weapon attack. This sounds like we're on the right track but, in throwing the melee weapon to make a ranged attack, it is no longer in your hand.



One argument is that the dagger is in hand at the moment the attack is initiated. However, the attack does not become a ranged attack until the instant the weapon leaves the hand. Therefore, the dagger not being in the hand is integral to it being a ranged attack (not a melee attack) and, as such, Dueling would not benefit the knives if they are thrown.





That all said, Jeremy Crawford has stated in a (now unofficial) Tweet that you can interpret the Dueling to allow the bonus to apply to ranged attacks. This is outside of the PHB but it's from the lead rules designer, so one could make a case either way and have strong support for the argument. As such, it probably depends on which argument the DM finds more persuasive.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$



Dueling will benefit in this situation depending on the interpretation you use



The Dueling fighting style states:




When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.




Daggers appear on the melee weapon table and the dueling fighting style requires a melee weapon. It does not say that it requires a melee weapon attack. This sounds like we're on the right track but, in throwing the melee weapon to make a ranged attack, it is no longer in your hand.



One argument is that the dagger is in hand at the moment the attack is initiated. However, the attack does not become a ranged attack until the instant the weapon leaves the hand. Therefore, the dagger not being in the hand is integral to it being a ranged attack (not a melee attack) and, as such, Dueling would not benefit the knives if they are thrown.





That all said, Jeremy Crawford has stated in a (now unofficial) Tweet that you can interpret the Dueling to allow the bonus to apply to ranged attacks. This is outside of the PHB but it's from the lead rules designer, so one could make a case either way and have strong support for the argument. As such, it probably depends on which argument the DM finds more persuasive.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 6 hours ago

























answered 11 hours ago









RykaraRykara

3,819835




3,819835












  • $begingroup$
    That disagrees with the logic of the accepted answer to the linked question.
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    11 hours ago






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    @BenBarden accepted only means it was most useful to OP. It doesn't automatically mean correct. FWIW the votes seem pretty close between the first and second answer. Hardly decisive I'd say. Also, neither directly means that the logic in this answer is incorrect.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    10 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    @ben I think Miniman and I have the same interpretation but he concedes that Jeremy Crawford, a higher authority, allows the interpretation that it will work. I will add the same caveat to this answer.
    $endgroup$
    – Rykara
    10 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    @Rykara though as that ruling came from a tweet, no longer officially a higher power regardless. RAI at most.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    10 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @rubik Can't edit my comment anymore but I meant "higher power than me," not the PHB, sorry. Thanks for editing to help clarify.
    $endgroup$
    – Rykara
    10 hours ago


















  • $begingroup$
    That disagrees with the logic of the accepted answer to the linked question.
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    11 hours ago






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    @BenBarden accepted only means it was most useful to OP. It doesn't automatically mean correct. FWIW the votes seem pretty close between the first and second answer. Hardly decisive I'd say. Also, neither directly means that the logic in this answer is incorrect.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    10 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    @ben I think Miniman and I have the same interpretation but he concedes that Jeremy Crawford, a higher authority, allows the interpretation that it will work. I will add the same caveat to this answer.
    $endgroup$
    – Rykara
    10 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    @Rykara though as that ruling came from a tweet, no longer officially a higher power regardless. RAI at most.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    10 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @rubik Can't edit my comment anymore but I meant "higher power than me," not the PHB, sorry. Thanks for editing to help clarify.
    $endgroup$
    – Rykara
    10 hours ago
















$begingroup$
That disagrees with the logic of the accepted answer to the linked question.
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
11 hours ago




$begingroup$
That disagrees with the logic of the accepted answer to the linked question.
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
11 hours ago




5




5




$begingroup$
@BenBarden accepted only means it was most useful to OP. It doesn't automatically mean correct. FWIW the votes seem pretty close between the first and second answer. Hardly decisive I'd say. Also, neither directly means that the logic in this answer is incorrect.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
10 hours ago






$begingroup$
@BenBarden accepted only means it was most useful to OP. It doesn't automatically mean correct. FWIW the votes seem pretty close between the first and second answer. Hardly decisive I'd say. Also, neither directly means that the logic in this answer is incorrect.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
10 hours ago














$begingroup$
@ben I think Miniman and I have the same interpretation but he concedes that Jeremy Crawford, a higher authority, allows the interpretation that it will work. I will add the same caveat to this answer.
$endgroup$
– Rykara
10 hours ago






$begingroup$
@ben I think Miniman and I have the same interpretation but he concedes that Jeremy Crawford, a higher authority, allows the interpretation that it will work. I will add the same caveat to this answer.
$endgroup$
– Rykara
10 hours ago














$begingroup$
@Rykara though as that ruling came from a tweet, no longer officially a higher power regardless. RAI at most.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
10 hours ago






$begingroup$
@Rykara though as that ruling came from a tweet, no longer officially a higher power regardless. RAI at most.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
10 hours ago






1




1




$begingroup$
@rubik Can't edit my comment anymore but I meant "higher power than me," not the PHB, sorry. Thanks for editing to help clarify.
$endgroup$
– Rykara
10 hours ago




$begingroup$
@rubik Can't edit my comment anymore but I meant "higher power than me," not the PHB, sorry. Thanks for editing to help clarify.
$endgroup$
– Rykara
10 hours ago


















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