Co-worker team leader wants to inject the crap software product of his friends into our development. What...
In theory, he is on the same level as me. In practice, he is above me (as de-facto team-leader). I am working in development/devops, with a partial overlap with his projects.
We just had a meeting with the company wanting to sell this crap software to us. He invited me to this meeting, even though he had enough information from my preferences to know that I will likely strongly dislike the idea.
I started to write a mail to our boss, where I just say the truth, as I see it. The problem is that after I've read my own mail, it became clear that at the average company it would endanger my job. Thus I deleted this mail, without sending it.
In general, the company has an above-average friendly atmosphere what I consider a big value, and I don't want to poison it. The opinion of the subordinates also has an above-average effect to the higher-level decisions, I consider also that a big value here. In exchange, our wages are a little bit below average.
The problem is that the team-leader will now probably utilize his "influence" over the developers to support the idea, and thus influence the decision of our common boss. On this "indirect" way, he will be probably able to inject the crap software into the development.
I don't have the same influence.
But something I need to do. But what?
colleagues ethics software-development feedback review
add a comment |
In theory, he is on the same level as me. In practice, he is above me (as de-facto team-leader). I am working in development/devops, with a partial overlap with his projects.
We just had a meeting with the company wanting to sell this crap software to us. He invited me to this meeting, even though he had enough information from my preferences to know that I will likely strongly dislike the idea.
I started to write a mail to our boss, where I just say the truth, as I see it. The problem is that after I've read my own mail, it became clear that at the average company it would endanger my job. Thus I deleted this mail, without sending it.
In general, the company has an above-average friendly atmosphere what I consider a big value, and I don't want to poison it. The opinion of the subordinates also has an above-average effect to the higher-level decisions, I consider also that a big value here. In exchange, our wages are a little bit below average.
The problem is that the team-leader will now probably utilize his "influence" over the developers to support the idea, and thus influence the decision of our common boss. On this "indirect" way, he will be probably able to inject the crap software into the development.
I don't have the same influence.
But something I need to do. But what?
colleagues ethics software-development feedback review
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
– Mister Positive♦
21 mins ago
add a comment |
In theory, he is on the same level as me. In practice, he is above me (as de-facto team-leader). I am working in development/devops, with a partial overlap with his projects.
We just had a meeting with the company wanting to sell this crap software to us. He invited me to this meeting, even though he had enough information from my preferences to know that I will likely strongly dislike the idea.
I started to write a mail to our boss, where I just say the truth, as I see it. The problem is that after I've read my own mail, it became clear that at the average company it would endanger my job. Thus I deleted this mail, without sending it.
In general, the company has an above-average friendly atmosphere what I consider a big value, and I don't want to poison it. The opinion of the subordinates also has an above-average effect to the higher-level decisions, I consider also that a big value here. In exchange, our wages are a little bit below average.
The problem is that the team-leader will now probably utilize his "influence" over the developers to support the idea, and thus influence the decision of our common boss. On this "indirect" way, he will be probably able to inject the crap software into the development.
I don't have the same influence.
But something I need to do. But what?
colleagues ethics software-development feedback review
In theory, he is on the same level as me. In practice, he is above me (as de-facto team-leader). I am working in development/devops, with a partial overlap with his projects.
We just had a meeting with the company wanting to sell this crap software to us. He invited me to this meeting, even though he had enough information from my preferences to know that I will likely strongly dislike the idea.
I started to write a mail to our boss, where I just say the truth, as I see it. The problem is that after I've read my own mail, it became clear that at the average company it would endanger my job. Thus I deleted this mail, without sending it.
In general, the company has an above-average friendly atmosphere what I consider a big value, and I don't want to poison it. The opinion of the subordinates also has an above-average effect to the higher-level decisions, I consider also that a big value here. In exchange, our wages are a little bit below average.
The problem is that the team-leader will now probably utilize his "influence" over the developers to support the idea, and thus influence the decision of our common boss. On this "indirect" way, he will be probably able to inject the crap software into the development.
I don't have the same influence.
But something I need to do. But what?
colleagues ethics software-development feedback review
colleagues ethics software-development feedback review
edited 4 hours ago
Sourav Ghosh
4,91622039
4,91622039
asked 6 hours ago
Gray SheepGray Sheep
1,34311123
1,34311123
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
– Mister Positive♦
21 mins ago
add a comment |
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
– Mister Positive♦
21 mins ago
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
– Mister Positive♦
21 mins ago
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
– Mister Positive♦
21 mins ago
add a comment |
9 Answers
9
active
oldest
votes
But something I need to do. But what?
Provide your feedback in a "constructive way", and be done about it. Not your place to make decisions.
Mention something along the lines of
"It was good to get a chance to evaluate the product X. As I see it:
- Pros: 1, 2, 3
- Cons: 1,2,3,4,5,5,6,7,8......
As it is evident from the analysis above, the list of cons overwhelms the list of pros, overall, I'd not be inclined to use this.
There might be better alternative which could have a reverse result of the given assessment, please let me know if you'd need me to work on that."
You were invited to the meeting (and the demo, I guess), and you have a fair idea of the ups and downs. You report them, solely based on the merits and demerits. Leave the decision making part to the people who are taking them.
At a later point of time if it comes back in the form that "even-after-new-tool-why-productivity-is-down" argument, well, you'll have your "proof".
29
Since OP has already highlighted that they had a bias before the meeting even started; this might help them establish in their own mind if the product really is as bad as they think it is.
– UKMonkey
3 hours ago
1
Also, note that this or any other response that the team leader may like may well cause problems; you have to decide if it's worth doing, given that.
– Kevin McKenzie
3 hours ago
2
+1, but I wish I could upvote more - namely because this answer covers the two most important aspects: Always put forth your assessment in a constructive, non-disparaging way and keep a paper (err, electron. err, you get the idea) trail.
– OnoSendai
3 hours ago
I would replaceI see it
withI found that
and I would add a sentence somewhere saying something like `This list is not closed. I will update it with any new informations I collect. Any input is welcome." The idea is to get more informations from your coworkers and to show that you have an open mind.
– aloisdg
2 hours ago
add a comment |
If you believe that a coworker is operating in cronyistic manner and playing fast and loose with company funds, yes, that is something you should raise with your manager.
Saying the software is "crap" is not likely to get you much traction. You must quantify how it is substandard, and how the business will not get the appropriate value for money. Just as you are annoyed that your teamleader is not objective, you must be objective yourself.
For example, you can contrast this "crap" software with competitor offerings. You could also estimate the value to the code base in saved man-hours.
It's possible you were invited along to provide the illusion of objectivity. If your "teamleader" picked you because he knew you may be "cautious" to bring up this with your manager, and thus he gets implicit validation from your presence.
"@GraySheep was there and he didn't raise any concerns"
You don't want to be silent and have the truth to come out.
Thank you very much! However, saying that behind the back of the teamleader would look like a machination for me. Saying that with the knowledge of the teamlead (i.e. Cc:-ing the mail to him) would be an open conflict. Which is better?
– Gray Sheep
4 hours ago
2
If you didn't want to go behind the back, or can't trust management, the other option is not conflict. I would probably address an email to your "team-leader" and CC your manager and start with: "Thank you for giving me an opportunity to assist the business in assessing the suitability of solution Y from company Z. I have summerised my assessment below, and also a brief assessment of other options. I'm always free to discuss any of the points if you wish." Then give a breakdown on the pros/cons of the solution, and follow up with pros/cons of competing solutions. (Maybe not in as much depth).
– Gregroy Currie
4 hours ago
I wouldn't mention, at all, that they are friends with the "team-leader", or even treat them specially. Be objective. If you wanted to go behind the back of the team-leader, you can raise concerns with the manager, but he will probably ask you to prepare a list of pros/cons, so maybe the letter above is a starting point.
– Gregroy Currie
4 hours ago
Gregory's comment on "saying it is crap won't get you far" remains true even if the software is, indeed, a steaming pile of crap
– corsiKa
3 hours ago
Unfortunately, it's often hard to quantify how a piece of software is crap without spending an inordinate amount of time gathering evidence and documenting minute details and providing a long explanation of how the problems will actually impact anything. Do you have any advice for overcoming that?
– jpmc26
2 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
But something I need to do. But what?
First thing constructive to do is to check your motivations carefully, why do you need to do something? Why do you want to engage in a dispute that you think you will lose.
If you're asked to analyse a tool, do so, give the pro's and cons without bias. Don't create problems without complete analysis or reason.
Because if the crap will be injected into the development, my work will be much harder. The secondary effect of this tool might be to exterminate devops as I am doing it.
– Gray Sheep
5 hours ago
Yet you think all the other developers will be fine with that? You're creating hurdles before you get to any.
– Kilisi
5 hours ago
2
@GraySheep Those are two personal reasons. You need to make this about the business.
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
1
@GraySheep 1) Is being cross-platform important to your business? 2) Is free software important to your business? 3) What does this even mean?
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
2
@GraySheep This all seems very personal for you. You need to adjust your mentality and shift towards acting (or at least seen to be acting) in the best interest of your employer.
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
|
show 11 more comments
Rewrite the letter you were going to send your boss.
Don't assume bad intentions from your coworker.
Be polite. Be specific. Drop the word "crap". Give your honest but detailed evaluation and be able to back up every point you raise, and ideally put an example of each point in the letter.
Boss,
I've reviewed the code being offered and I view it as sub-standard for the following reasons...
1) Reason #1. Reason for thinking this is a problem. Example.
(Sample) 1) There are no comments in the code. They have X lines of code. I did a grep search and found a grand total of Y comment lines. For perspective our current code base has...
Point taken, though some people don't consider comment line % a great indicator of code quality :)
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
@GregroyCurrie I took over a code base that had 100k+ lines of code which had a total of 7 comment lines. Those 7 lines of comments were worthless. There was no external documentation at all. He's got strong opinions, hopefully there are strong reasons.
– Dark Matter
5 hours ago
1
If 7 lines of comments were worthless, couldn't 99k of comments be worthless :) I agree that good code has meaningful comments though.
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
1
@TimB No argument from me. (Though some languages make it easier to write clear code, compared to others).
– Gregroy Currie
4 hours ago
@Dark Matter: On the other end of the scale, I've seen profusely commented code (often done with automatic "documentation" generators) in which the vast majority of comments are of the "i++; /* increment i */" sort.
– jamesqf
2 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Talk about it with your colleague/unofficial teamleader.
You think he knows your opinion about the topic but it may not be this way.
He invited you to the meeting which means he values your opinion. (I assume here that he didn't invite you to taunt you because your high opinion on the good working climate)
Tell him directly that the software he wants to introduce would, in your opinion, hinder further development of the project.
The cause for his support for the software in question might be personal, which he should overthink.
If this isn't the case ask him to explain to you why he thinks the software will improve the development.
A normal discussion about work related topic which does affect your work shouldn't cause danger to your employment or social status in your company.
It might even improve because you show compassion for your work.
But most importantly: You do it professional.
EDIT1: If your colleague does not show any kind of good reasoning talk about it with your manager afterwards. Maybe propose a three-way discussion to get the topic dealt with fast.
New contributor
2
He could also have been invited to give the illusion of objectivity.
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
Nevertheless the fact that OP was invited to the meeting means that the OP does have competence in the topic and is therefore qualified/entitled to be part of the decision. And because the co-worker cannot end the illusion now means that he can do nothing about OP expressing his honest and professional opinion.
– GittingGud
5 hours ago
1
I don't think that's necessarily true, though it is probably true in this instance. But I agree fully that he should make the most of this "illusion".
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
add a comment |
(Good) management is influenced by logic, not name-calling. Reading your OP, you have mentioned that you think this software is crap, but you didn't say how or why. If I was a manager and I read your OP, I would think you were just a troublemaker, and you would lose face with me. If this is how you wrote the email to management, then it's a good thing you didn't send it.
What you want to do is lay out, plainly and objectively, what your objections are. Maybe you have a use case that this software doesn't satisfy? Maybe the software is too slow or doesn't meet other benchmarks? Maybe the support isn't there for it, so technical issues that arise would be hard to resolve? Maybe it's just plain buggy? Whatever the problems are, explain them in a clear and detailed way to management. Don't use words like "crap" or "horrible" or whatever; those are weasel words and don't mean anything. Outline your concerns, and let your concerns speak for themselves.
Thanks. This is what I did. It probably won't have any effect, we will see on the long-term, what happens.
– Gray Sheep
1 hour ago
add a comment |
You call this software "crap" a couple of times, so you clearly know a thing or two about what it does, and what your company actually needs. Write up a document (email) outlining your concerns about the features / functionality, and send it to your boss.
I would suggest also offering alternatives, such that you're not simply coming across as jealous, or negative. Make a table analyzing features, pricing, etc.
Some options that don't share the same risks are X, and Y. The pricing for X is a little higher than the option proposed by John, but offers these advantages: ...
At the very end of the email you may include a phrase along the lines of:
As you can see, there are solid reasons why we should continue looking for a product to fill this niche. Furthermore I fear that John's decision to recommend this software may be influenced by the fact that a close personal friend of his created it.
You may want to hold that tidbit of information in reserve just in case you have to escalate, however.
Yes, I know far more enough from this software to call it a crap. Its only advantage is that it helps the developers to avoid learning technology X, what is a quite common technology in the industry, but somehow they've solved to avoid to learn it. Now the teamlead came with this software, which avoids them to learn it, as a side effect 1) it helps him to exterminate me 2) it will lead to malpractice on the long-term. I see these, but now the word of the teamlead + the developers standing with him is against mine. Surely mine will be more weak.
– Gray Sheep
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Your colleague has a conflict of interest. You should discuss this with the other members of your organization, and make sure that the software is properly evaluated by a party without vested interest and free from undue influence.
A possible conflict of interest is a non-issue if the tool is good, and this is what now the whole team except me is saying.
– Gray Sheep
1 hour ago
add a comment |
If his friend doesn't work for the company, then injecting his buds software into the company's workflow is simply a conflict of interest. Pointing that out would help a lot.
I'd also explain to my boss why this software is crap and I'd try to provide some cost benefits analysis of using it. I'd even go so far as to attempt to show how much money the company will lose from the lost development time dealing with the unmaintainable can of worms your team lead's friend is trying to pass off as code. That should help too.
You are going above your team leads head though, so this likely won't have the greatest impact on your career at your current company. You're a dev though; you can always get another job, that will probably come with a pay raise, so you shouldn't be scared in situations like these.
I am here because the athmosphere is nice and the bosses hear us. These are huge improvements to my previous experiences, and they worth the little bit lower wage for me. I don't want to become a slave again only for +10%. If I switch to another job, I will lose these.
– Gray Sheep
2 hours ago
Ok. There is a technology, call "technology X", which is quite common in the industry and practically all useful developer knows it. Our devs somehow managed to avoid to learn it until now. The tool, call it "tool Y" what the teamlead want to inject, has three effects: 1) avoids the devs to learn "technology X" 2) will lead to various malpractices/customer unsatisifedness on the long-term 3) expels me as devops from the projects using "technology X". | These are the facts. What are the motives, these are still unknown for me.
– Gray Sheep
1 hour ago
@GraySheep totally had this question confused with another lol. My bad. There's another question where I gave similar advice because that person is dealing with physical fighting during meetings.
– Steve
1 hour ago
@GraySheep why is your involvement with the project pivotal to its success? What other advantages would learning tech X give your team. You need an estimate of how much time/money the malpractices will cause. Also, is there a good reason that your team insists on not using tech X?
– Steve
1 hour ago
It is not pivotal. A developer can be a successful developer without knowing a key technology on his field, a team of such developers can be a successful team. Project development without devops can be a successful project development (btw, I never wanted to become a devops here, it just happened so in many small steps). The chances are only smaller.
– Gray Sheep
1 hour ago
|
show 2 more comments
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9 Answers
9
active
oldest
votes
9 Answers
9
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
But something I need to do. But what?
Provide your feedback in a "constructive way", and be done about it. Not your place to make decisions.
Mention something along the lines of
"It was good to get a chance to evaluate the product X. As I see it:
- Pros: 1, 2, 3
- Cons: 1,2,3,4,5,5,6,7,8......
As it is evident from the analysis above, the list of cons overwhelms the list of pros, overall, I'd not be inclined to use this.
There might be better alternative which could have a reverse result of the given assessment, please let me know if you'd need me to work on that."
You were invited to the meeting (and the demo, I guess), and you have a fair idea of the ups and downs. You report them, solely based on the merits and demerits. Leave the decision making part to the people who are taking them.
At a later point of time if it comes back in the form that "even-after-new-tool-why-productivity-is-down" argument, well, you'll have your "proof".
29
Since OP has already highlighted that they had a bias before the meeting even started; this might help them establish in their own mind if the product really is as bad as they think it is.
– UKMonkey
3 hours ago
1
Also, note that this or any other response that the team leader may like may well cause problems; you have to decide if it's worth doing, given that.
– Kevin McKenzie
3 hours ago
2
+1, but I wish I could upvote more - namely because this answer covers the two most important aspects: Always put forth your assessment in a constructive, non-disparaging way and keep a paper (err, electron. err, you get the idea) trail.
– OnoSendai
3 hours ago
I would replaceI see it
withI found that
and I would add a sentence somewhere saying something like `This list is not closed. I will update it with any new informations I collect. Any input is welcome." The idea is to get more informations from your coworkers and to show that you have an open mind.
– aloisdg
2 hours ago
add a comment |
But something I need to do. But what?
Provide your feedback in a "constructive way", and be done about it. Not your place to make decisions.
Mention something along the lines of
"It was good to get a chance to evaluate the product X. As I see it:
- Pros: 1, 2, 3
- Cons: 1,2,3,4,5,5,6,7,8......
As it is evident from the analysis above, the list of cons overwhelms the list of pros, overall, I'd not be inclined to use this.
There might be better alternative which could have a reverse result of the given assessment, please let me know if you'd need me to work on that."
You were invited to the meeting (and the demo, I guess), and you have a fair idea of the ups and downs. You report them, solely based on the merits and demerits. Leave the decision making part to the people who are taking them.
At a later point of time if it comes back in the form that "even-after-new-tool-why-productivity-is-down" argument, well, you'll have your "proof".
29
Since OP has already highlighted that they had a bias before the meeting even started; this might help them establish in their own mind if the product really is as bad as they think it is.
– UKMonkey
3 hours ago
1
Also, note that this or any other response that the team leader may like may well cause problems; you have to decide if it's worth doing, given that.
– Kevin McKenzie
3 hours ago
2
+1, but I wish I could upvote more - namely because this answer covers the two most important aspects: Always put forth your assessment in a constructive, non-disparaging way and keep a paper (err, electron. err, you get the idea) trail.
– OnoSendai
3 hours ago
I would replaceI see it
withI found that
and I would add a sentence somewhere saying something like `This list is not closed. I will update it with any new informations I collect. Any input is welcome." The idea is to get more informations from your coworkers and to show that you have an open mind.
– aloisdg
2 hours ago
add a comment |
But something I need to do. But what?
Provide your feedback in a "constructive way", and be done about it. Not your place to make decisions.
Mention something along the lines of
"It was good to get a chance to evaluate the product X. As I see it:
- Pros: 1, 2, 3
- Cons: 1,2,3,4,5,5,6,7,8......
As it is evident from the analysis above, the list of cons overwhelms the list of pros, overall, I'd not be inclined to use this.
There might be better alternative which could have a reverse result of the given assessment, please let me know if you'd need me to work on that."
You were invited to the meeting (and the demo, I guess), and you have a fair idea of the ups and downs. You report them, solely based on the merits and demerits. Leave the decision making part to the people who are taking them.
At a later point of time if it comes back in the form that "even-after-new-tool-why-productivity-is-down" argument, well, you'll have your "proof".
But something I need to do. But what?
Provide your feedback in a "constructive way", and be done about it. Not your place to make decisions.
Mention something along the lines of
"It was good to get a chance to evaluate the product X. As I see it:
- Pros: 1, 2, 3
- Cons: 1,2,3,4,5,5,6,7,8......
As it is evident from the analysis above, the list of cons overwhelms the list of pros, overall, I'd not be inclined to use this.
There might be better alternative which could have a reverse result of the given assessment, please let me know if you'd need me to work on that."
You were invited to the meeting (and the demo, I guess), and you have a fair idea of the ups and downs. You report them, solely based on the merits and demerits. Leave the decision making part to the people who are taking them.
At a later point of time if it comes back in the form that "even-after-new-tool-why-productivity-is-down" argument, well, you'll have your "proof".
edited 5 hours ago
answered 6 hours ago
Sourav GhoshSourav Ghosh
4,91622039
4,91622039
29
Since OP has already highlighted that they had a bias before the meeting even started; this might help them establish in their own mind if the product really is as bad as they think it is.
– UKMonkey
3 hours ago
1
Also, note that this or any other response that the team leader may like may well cause problems; you have to decide if it's worth doing, given that.
– Kevin McKenzie
3 hours ago
2
+1, but I wish I could upvote more - namely because this answer covers the two most important aspects: Always put forth your assessment in a constructive, non-disparaging way and keep a paper (err, electron. err, you get the idea) trail.
– OnoSendai
3 hours ago
I would replaceI see it
withI found that
and I would add a sentence somewhere saying something like `This list is not closed. I will update it with any new informations I collect. Any input is welcome." The idea is to get more informations from your coworkers and to show that you have an open mind.
– aloisdg
2 hours ago
add a comment |
29
Since OP has already highlighted that they had a bias before the meeting even started; this might help them establish in their own mind if the product really is as bad as they think it is.
– UKMonkey
3 hours ago
1
Also, note that this or any other response that the team leader may like may well cause problems; you have to decide if it's worth doing, given that.
– Kevin McKenzie
3 hours ago
2
+1, but I wish I could upvote more - namely because this answer covers the two most important aspects: Always put forth your assessment in a constructive, non-disparaging way and keep a paper (err, electron. err, you get the idea) trail.
– OnoSendai
3 hours ago
I would replaceI see it
withI found that
and I would add a sentence somewhere saying something like `This list is not closed. I will update it with any new informations I collect. Any input is welcome." The idea is to get more informations from your coworkers and to show that you have an open mind.
– aloisdg
2 hours ago
29
29
Since OP has already highlighted that they had a bias before the meeting even started; this might help them establish in their own mind if the product really is as bad as they think it is.
– UKMonkey
3 hours ago
Since OP has already highlighted that they had a bias before the meeting even started; this might help them establish in their own mind if the product really is as bad as they think it is.
– UKMonkey
3 hours ago
1
1
Also, note that this or any other response that the team leader may like may well cause problems; you have to decide if it's worth doing, given that.
– Kevin McKenzie
3 hours ago
Also, note that this or any other response that the team leader may like may well cause problems; you have to decide if it's worth doing, given that.
– Kevin McKenzie
3 hours ago
2
2
+1, but I wish I could upvote more - namely because this answer covers the two most important aspects: Always put forth your assessment in a constructive, non-disparaging way and keep a paper (err, electron. err, you get the idea) trail.
– OnoSendai
3 hours ago
+1, but I wish I could upvote more - namely because this answer covers the two most important aspects: Always put forth your assessment in a constructive, non-disparaging way and keep a paper (err, electron. err, you get the idea) trail.
– OnoSendai
3 hours ago
I would replace
I see it
with I found that
and I would add a sentence somewhere saying something like `This list is not closed. I will update it with any new informations I collect. Any input is welcome." The idea is to get more informations from your coworkers and to show that you have an open mind.– aloisdg
2 hours ago
I would replace
I see it
with I found that
and I would add a sentence somewhere saying something like `This list is not closed. I will update it with any new informations I collect. Any input is welcome." The idea is to get more informations from your coworkers and to show that you have an open mind.– aloisdg
2 hours ago
add a comment |
If you believe that a coworker is operating in cronyistic manner and playing fast and loose with company funds, yes, that is something you should raise with your manager.
Saying the software is "crap" is not likely to get you much traction. You must quantify how it is substandard, and how the business will not get the appropriate value for money. Just as you are annoyed that your teamleader is not objective, you must be objective yourself.
For example, you can contrast this "crap" software with competitor offerings. You could also estimate the value to the code base in saved man-hours.
It's possible you were invited along to provide the illusion of objectivity. If your "teamleader" picked you because he knew you may be "cautious" to bring up this with your manager, and thus he gets implicit validation from your presence.
"@GraySheep was there and he didn't raise any concerns"
You don't want to be silent and have the truth to come out.
Thank you very much! However, saying that behind the back of the teamleader would look like a machination for me. Saying that with the knowledge of the teamlead (i.e. Cc:-ing the mail to him) would be an open conflict. Which is better?
– Gray Sheep
4 hours ago
2
If you didn't want to go behind the back, or can't trust management, the other option is not conflict. I would probably address an email to your "team-leader" and CC your manager and start with: "Thank you for giving me an opportunity to assist the business in assessing the suitability of solution Y from company Z. I have summerised my assessment below, and also a brief assessment of other options. I'm always free to discuss any of the points if you wish." Then give a breakdown on the pros/cons of the solution, and follow up with pros/cons of competing solutions. (Maybe not in as much depth).
– Gregroy Currie
4 hours ago
I wouldn't mention, at all, that they are friends with the "team-leader", or even treat them specially. Be objective. If you wanted to go behind the back of the team-leader, you can raise concerns with the manager, but he will probably ask you to prepare a list of pros/cons, so maybe the letter above is a starting point.
– Gregroy Currie
4 hours ago
Gregory's comment on "saying it is crap won't get you far" remains true even if the software is, indeed, a steaming pile of crap
– corsiKa
3 hours ago
Unfortunately, it's often hard to quantify how a piece of software is crap without spending an inordinate amount of time gathering evidence and documenting minute details and providing a long explanation of how the problems will actually impact anything. Do you have any advice for overcoming that?
– jpmc26
2 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
If you believe that a coworker is operating in cronyistic manner and playing fast and loose with company funds, yes, that is something you should raise with your manager.
Saying the software is "crap" is not likely to get you much traction. You must quantify how it is substandard, and how the business will not get the appropriate value for money. Just as you are annoyed that your teamleader is not objective, you must be objective yourself.
For example, you can contrast this "crap" software with competitor offerings. You could also estimate the value to the code base in saved man-hours.
It's possible you were invited along to provide the illusion of objectivity. If your "teamleader" picked you because he knew you may be "cautious" to bring up this with your manager, and thus he gets implicit validation from your presence.
"@GraySheep was there and he didn't raise any concerns"
You don't want to be silent and have the truth to come out.
Thank you very much! However, saying that behind the back of the teamleader would look like a machination for me. Saying that with the knowledge of the teamlead (i.e. Cc:-ing the mail to him) would be an open conflict. Which is better?
– Gray Sheep
4 hours ago
2
If you didn't want to go behind the back, or can't trust management, the other option is not conflict. I would probably address an email to your "team-leader" and CC your manager and start with: "Thank you for giving me an opportunity to assist the business in assessing the suitability of solution Y from company Z. I have summerised my assessment below, and also a brief assessment of other options. I'm always free to discuss any of the points if you wish." Then give a breakdown on the pros/cons of the solution, and follow up with pros/cons of competing solutions. (Maybe not in as much depth).
– Gregroy Currie
4 hours ago
I wouldn't mention, at all, that they are friends with the "team-leader", or even treat them specially. Be objective. If you wanted to go behind the back of the team-leader, you can raise concerns with the manager, but he will probably ask you to prepare a list of pros/cons, so maybe the letter above is a starting point.
– Gregroy Currie
4 hours ago
Gregory's comment on "saying it is crap won't get you far" remains true even if the software is, indeed, a steaming pile of crap
– corsiKa
3 hours ago
Unfortunately, it's often hard to quantify how a piece of software is crap without spending an inordinate amount of time gathering evidence and documenting minute details and providing a long explanation of how the problems will actually impact anything. Do you have any advice for overcoming that?
– jpmc26
2 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
If you believe that a coworker is operating in cronyistic manner and playing fast and loose with company funds, yes, that is something you should raise with your manager.
Saying the software is "crap" is not likely to get you much traction. You must quantify how it is substandard, and how the business will not get the appropriate value for money. Just as you are annoyed that your teamleader is not objective, you must be objective yourself.
For example, you can contrast this "crap" software with competitor offerings. You could also estimate the value to the code base in saved man-hours.
It's possible you were invited along to provide the illusion of objectivity. If your "teamleader" picked you because he knew you may be "cautious" to bring up this with your manager, and thus he gets implicit validation from your presence.
"@GraySheep was there and he didn't raise any concerns"
You don't want to be silent and have the truth to come out.
If you believe that a coworker is operating in cronyistic manner and playing fast and loose with company funds, yes, that is something you should raise with your manager.
Saying the software is "crap" is not likely to get you much traction. You must quantify how it is substandard, and how the business will not get the appropriate value for money. Just as you are annoyed that your teamleader is not objective, you must be objective yourself.
For example, you can contrast this "crap" software with competitor offerings. You could also estimate the value to the code base in saved man-hours.
It's possible you were invited along to provide the illusion of objectivity. If your "teamleader" picked you because he knew you may be "cautious" to bring up this with your manager, and thus he gets implicit validation from your presence.
"@GraySheep was there and he didn't raise any concerns"
You don't want to be silent and have the truth to come out.
edited 5 hours ago
answered 5 hours ago
Gregroy CurrieGregroy Currie
1,1741512
1,1741512
Thank you very much! However, saying that behind the back of the teamleader would look like a machination for me. Saying that with the knowledge of the teamlead (i.e. Cc:-ing the mail to him) would be an open conflict. Which is better?
– Gray Sheep
4 hours ago
2
If you didn't want to go behind the back, or can't trust management, the other option is not conflict. I would probably address an email to your "team-leader" and CC your manager and start with: "Thank you for giving me an opportunity to assist the business in assessing the suitability of solution Y from company Z. I have summerised my assessment below, and also a brief assessment of other options. I'm always free to discuss any of the points if you wish." Then give a breakdown on the pros/cons of the solution, and follow up with pros/cons of competing solutions. (Maybe not in as much depth).
– Gregroy Currie
4 hours ago
I wouldn't mention, at all, that they are friends with the "team-leader", or even treat them specially. Be objective. If you wanted to go behind the back of the team-leader, you can raise concerns with the manager, but he will probably ask you to prepare a list of pros/cons, so maybe the letter above is a starting point.
– Gregroy Currie
4 hours ago
Gregory's comment on "saying it is crap won't get you far" remains true even if the software is, indeed, a steaming pile of crap
– corsiKa
3 hours ago
Unfortunately, it's often hard to quantify how a piece of software is crap without spending an inordinate amount of time gathering evidence and documenting minute details and providing a long explanation of how the problems will actually impact anything. Do you have any advice for overcoming that?
– jpmc26
2 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
Thank you very much! However, saying that behind the back of the teamleader would look like a machination for me. Saying that with the knowledge of the teamlead (i.e. Cc:-ing the mail to him) would be an open conflict. Which is better?
– Gray Sheep
4 hours ago
2
If you didn't want to go behind the back, or can't trust management, the other option is not conflict. I would probably address an email to your "team-leader" and CC your manager and start with: "Thank you for giving me an opportunity to assist the business in assessing the suitability of solution Y from company Z. I have summerised my assessment below, and also a brief assessment of other options. I'm always free to discuss any of the points if you wish." Then give a breakdown on the pros/cons of the solution, and follow up with pros/cons of competing solutions. (Maybe not in as much depth).
– Gregroy Currie
4 hours ago
I wouldn't mention, at all, that they are friends with the "team-leader", or even treat them specially. Be objective. If you wanted to go behind the back of the team-leader, you can raise concerns with the manager, but he will probably ask you to prepare a list of pros/cons, so maybe the letter above is a starting point.
– Gregroy Currie
4 hours ago
Gregory's comment on "saying it is crap won't get you far" remains true even if the software is, indeed, a steaming pile of crap
– corsiKa
3 hours ago
Unfortunately, it's often hard to quantify how a piece of software is crap without spending an inordinate amount of time gathering evidence and documenting minute details and providing a long explanation of how the problems will actually impact anything. Do you have any advice for overcoming that?
– jpmc26
2 hours ago
Thank you very much! However, saying that behind the back of the teamleader would look like a machination for me. Saying that with the knowledge of the teamlead (i.e. Cc:-ing the mail to him) would be an open conflict. Which is better?
– Gray Sheep
4 hours ago
Thank you very much! However, saying that behind the back of the teamleader would look like a machination for me. Saying that with the knowledge of the teamlead (i.e. Cc:-ing the mail to him) would be an open conflict. Which is better?
– Gray Sheep
4 hours ago
2
2
If you didn't want to go behind the back, or can't trust management, the other option is not conflict. I would probably address an email to your "team-leader" and CC your manager and start with: "Thank you for giving me an opportunity to assist the business in assessing the suitability of solution Y from company Z. I have summerised my assessment below, and also a brief assessment of other options. I'm always free to discuss any of the points if you wish." Then give a breakdown on the pros/cons of the solution, and follow up with pros/cons of competing solutions. (Maybe not in as much depth).
– Gregroy Currie
4 hours ago
If you didn't want to go behind the back, or can't trust management, the other option is not conflict. I would probably address an email to your "team-leader" and CC your manager and start with: "Thank you for giving me an opportunity to assist the business in assessing the suitability of solution Y from company Z. I have summerised my assessment below, and also a brief assessment of other options. I'm always free to discuss any of the points if you wish." Then give a breakdown on the pros/cons of the solution, and follow up with pros/cons of competing solutions. (Maybe not in as much depth).
– Gregroy Currie
4 hours ago
I wouldn't mention, at all, that they are friends with the "team-leader", or even treat them specially. Be objective. If you wanted to go behind the back of the team-leader, you can raise concerns with the manager, but he will probably ask you to prepare a list of pros/cons, so maybe the letter above is a starting point.
– Gregroy Currie
4 hours ago
I wouldn't mention, at all, that they are friends with the "team-leader", or even treat them specially. Be objective. If you wanted to go behind the back of the team-leader, you can raise concerns with the manager, but he will probably ask you to prepare a list of pros/cons, so maybe the letter above is a starting point.
– Gregroy Currie
4 hours ago
Gregory's comment on "saying it is crap won't get you far" remains true even if the software is, indeed, a steaming pile of crap
– corsiKa
3 hours ago
Gregory's comment on "saying it is crap won't get you far" remains true even if the software is, indeed, a steaming pile of crap
– corsiKa
3 hours ago
Unfortunately, it's often hard to quantify how a piece of software is crap without spending an inordinate amount of time gathering evidence and documenting minute details and providing a long explanation of how the problems will actually impact anything. Do you have any advice for overcoming that?
– jpmc26
2 hours ago
Unfortunately, it's often hard to quantify how a piece of software is crap without spending an inordinate amount of time gathering evidence and documenting minute details and providing a long explanation of how the problems will actually impact anything. Do you have any advice for overcoming that?
– jpmc26
2 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
But something I need to do. But what?
First thing constructive to do is to check your motivations carefully, why do you need to do something? Why do you want to engage in a dispute that you think you will lose.
If you're asked to analyse a tool, do so, give the pro's and cons without bias. Don't create problems without complete analysis or reason.
Because if the crap will be injected into the development, my work will be much harder. The secondary effect of this tool might be to exterminate devops as I am doing it.
– Gray Sheep
5 hours ago
Yet you think all the other developers will be fine with that? You're creating hurdles before you get to any.
– Kilisi
5 hours ago
2
@GraySheep Those are two personal reasons. You need to make this about the business.
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
1
@GraySheep 1) Is being cross-platform important to your business? 2) Is free software important to your business? 3) What does this even mean?
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
2
@GraySheep This all seems very personal for you. You need to adjust your mentality and shift towards acting (or at least seen to be acting) in the best interest of your employer.
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
|
show 11 more comments
But something I need to do. But what?
First thing constructive to do is to check your motivations carefully, why do you need to do something? Why do you want to engage in a dispute that you think you will lose.
If you're asked to analyse a tool, do so, give the pro's and cons without bias. Don't create problems without complete analysis or reason.
Because if the crap will be injected into the development, my work will be much harder. The secondary effect of this tool might be to exterminate devops as I am doing it.
– Gray Sheep
5 hours ago
Yet you think all the other developers will be fine with that? You're creating hurdles before you get to any.
– Kilisi
5 hours ago
2
@GraySheep Those are two personal reasons. You need to make this about the business.
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
1
@GraySheep 1) Is being cross-platform important to your business? 2) Is free software important to your business? 3) What does this even mean?
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
2
@GraySheep This all seems very personal for you. You need to adjust your mentality and shift towards acting (or at least seen to be acting) in the best interest of your employer.
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
|
show 11 more comments
But something I need to do. But what?
First thing constructive to do is to check your motivations carefully, why do you need to do something? Why do you want to engage in a dispute that you think you will lose.
If you're asked to analyse a tool, do so, give the pro's and cons without bias. Don't create problems without complete analysis or reason.
But something I need to do. But what?
First thing constructive to do is to check your motivations carefully, why do you need to do something? Why do you want to engage in a dispute that you think you will lose.
If you're asked to analyse a tool, do so, give the pro's and cons without bias. Don't create problems without complete analysis or reason.
edited 5 hours ago
answered 5 hours ago
KilisiKilisi
121k70268466
121k70268466
Because if the crap will be injected into the development, my work will be much harder. The secondary effect of this tool might be to exterminate devops as I am doing it.
– Gray Sheep
5 hours ago
Yet you think all the other developers will be fine with that? You're creating hurdles before you get to any.
– Kilisi
5 hours ago
2
@GraySheep Those are two personal reasons. You need to make this about the business.
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
1
@GraySheep 1) Is being cross-platform important to your business? 2) Is free software important to your business? 3) What does this even mean?
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
2
@GraySheep This all seems very personal for you. You need to adjust your mentality and shift towards acting (or at least seen to be acting) in the best interest of your employer.
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
|
show 11 more comments
Because if the crap will be injected into the development, my work will be much harder. The secondary effect of this tool might be to exterminate devops as I am doing it.
– Gray Sheep
5 hours ago
Yet you think all the other developers will be fine with that? You're creating hurdles before you get to any.
– Kilisi
5 hours ago
2
@GraySheep Those are two personal reasons. You need to make this about the business.
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
1
@GraySheep 1) Is being cross-platform important to your business? 2) Is free software important to your business? 3) What does this even mean?
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
2
@GraySheep This all seems very personal for you. You need to adjust your mentality and shift towards acting (or at least seen to be acting) in the best interest of your employer.
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
Because if the crap will be injected into the development, my work will be much harder. The secondary effect of this tool might be to exterminate devops as I am doing it.
– Gray Sheep
5 hours ago
Because if the crap will be injected into the development, my work will be much harder. The secondary effect of this tool might be to exterminate devops as I am doing it.
– Gray Sheep
5 hours ago
Yet you think all the other developers will be fine with that? You're creating hurdles before you get to any.
– Kilisi
5 hours ago
Yet you think all the other developers will be fine with that? You're creating hurdles before you get to any.
– Kilisi
5 hours ago
2
2
@GraySheep Those are two personal reasons. You need to make this about the business.
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
@GraySheep Those are two personal reasons. You need to make this about the business.
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
1
1
@GraySheep 1) Is being cross-platform important to your business? 2) Is free software important to your business? 3) What does this even mean?
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
@GraySheep 1) Is being cross-platform important to your business? 2) Is free software important to your business? 3) What does this even mean?
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
2
2
@GraySheep This all seems very personal for you. You need to adjust your mentality and shift towards acting (or at least seen to be acting) in the best interest of your employer.
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
@GraySheep This all seems very personal for you. You need to adjust your mentality and shift towards acting (or at least seen to be acting) in the best interest of your employer.
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
|
show 11 more comments
Rewrite the letter you were going to send your boss.
Don't assume bad intentions from your coworker.
Be polite. Be specific. Drop the word "crap". Give your honest but detailed evaluation and be able to back up every point you raise, and ideally put an example of each point in the letter.
Boss,
I've reviewed the code being offered and I view it as sub-standard for the following reasons...
1) Reason #1. Reason for thinking this is a problem. Example.
(Sample) 1) There are no comments in the code. They have X lines of code. I did a grep search and found a grand total of Y comment lines. For perspective our current code base has...
Point taken, though some people don't consider comment line % a great indicator of code quality :)
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
@GregroyCurrie I took over a code base that had 100k+ lines of code which had a total of 7 comment lines. Those 7 lines of comments were worthless. There was no external documentation at all. He's got strong opinions, hopefully there are strong reasons.
– Dark Matter
5 hours ago
1
If 7 lines of comments were worthless, couldn't 99k of comments be worthless :) I agree that good code has meaningful comments though.
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
1
@TimB No argument from me. (Though some languages make it easier to write clear code, compared to others).
– Gregroy Currie
4 hours ago
@Dark Matter: On the other end of the scale, I've seen profusely commented code (often done with automatic "documentation" generators) in which the vast majority of comments are of the "i++; /* increment i */" sort.
– jamesqf
2 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Rewrite the letter you were going to send your boss.
Don't assume bad intentions from your coworker.
Be polite. Be specific. Drop the word "crap". Give your honest but detailed evaluation and be able to back up every point you raise, and ideally put an example of each point in the letter.
Boss,
I've reviewed the code being offered and I view it as sub-standard for the following reasons...
1) Reason #1. Reason for thinking this is a problem. Example.
(Sample) 1) There are no comments in the code. They have X lines of code. I did a grep search and found a grand total of Y comment lines. For perspective our current code base has...
Point taken, though some people don't consider comment line % a great indicator of code quality :)
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
@GregroyCurrie I took over a code base that had 100k+ lines of code which had a total of 7 comment lines. Those 7 lines of comments were worthless. There was no external documentation at all. He's got strong opinions, hopefully there are strong reasons.
– Dark Matter
5 hours ago
1
If 7 lines of comments were worthless, couldn't 99k of comments be worthless :) I agree that good code has meaningful comments though.
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
1
@TimB No argument from me. (Though some languages make it easier to write clear code, compared to others).
– Gregroy Currie
4 hours ago
@Dark Matter: On the other end of the scale, I've seen profusely commented code (often done with automatic "documentation" generators) in which the vast majority of comments are of the "i++; /* increment i */" sort.
– jamesqf
2 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Rewrite the letter you were going to send your boss.
Don't assume bad intentions from your coworker.
Be polite. Be specific. Drop the word "crap". Give your honest but detailed evaluation and be able to back up every point you raise, and ideally put an example of each point in the letter.
Boss,
I've reviewed the code being offered and I view it as sub-standard for the following reasons...
1) Reason #1. Reason for thinking this is a problem. Example.
(Sample) 1) There are no comments in the code. They have X lines of code. I did a grep search and found a grand total of Y comment lines. For perspective our current code base has...
Rewrite the letter you were going to send your boss.
Don't assume bad intentions from your coworker.
Be polite. Be specific. Drop the word "crap". Give your honest but detailed evaluation and be able to back up every point you raise, and ideally put an example of each point in the letter.
Boss,
I've reviewed the code being offered and I view it as sub-standard for the following reasons...
1) Reason #1. Reason for thinking this is a problem. Example.
(Sample) 1) There are no comments in the code. They have X lines of code. I did a grep search and found a grand total of Y comment lines. For perspective our current code base has...
answered 5 hours ago
Dark Matter Dark Matter
4,6811920
4,6811920
Point taken, though some people don't consider comment line % a great indicator of code quality :)
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
@GregroyCurrie I took over a code base that had 100k+ lines of code which had a total of 7 comment lines. Those 7 lines of comments were worthless. There was no external documentation at all. He's got strong opinions, hopefully there are strong reasons.
– Dark Matter
5 hours ago
1
If 7 lines of comments were worthless, couldn't 99k of comments be worthless :) I agree that good code has meaningful comments though.
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
1
@TimB No argument from me. (Though some languages make it easier to write clear code, compared to others).
– Gregroy Currie
4 hours ago
@Dark Matter: On the other end of the scale, I've seen profusely commented code (often done with automatic "documentation" generators) in which the vast majority of comments are of the "i++; /* increment i */" sort.
– jamesqf
2 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Point taken, though some people don't consider comment line % a great indicator of code quality :)
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
@GregroyCurrie I took over a code base that had 100k+ lines of code which had a total of 7 comment lines. Those 7 lines of comments were worthless. There was no external documentation at all. He's got strong opinions, hopefully there are strong reasons.
– Dark Matter
5 hours ago
1
If 7 lines of comments were worthless, couldn't 99k of comments be worthless :) I agree that good code has meaningful comments though.
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
1
@TimB No argument from me. (Though some languages make it easier to write clear code, compared to others).
– Gregroy Currie
4 hours ago
@Dark Matter: On the other end of the scale, I've seen profusely commented code (often done with automatic "documentation" generators) in which the vast majority of comments are of the "i++; /* increment i */" sort.
– jamesqf
2 hours ago
Point taken, though some people don't consider comment line % a great indicator of code quality :)
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
Point taken, though some people don't consider comment line % a great indicator of code quality :)
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
@GregroyCurrie I took over a code base that had 100k+ lines of code which had a total of 7 comment lines. Those 7 lines of comments were worthless. There was no external documentation at all. He's got strong opinions, hopefully there are strong reasons.
– Dark Matter
5 hours ago
@GregroyCurrie I took over a code base that had 100k+ lines of code which had a total of 7 comment lines. Those 7 lines of comments were worthless. There was no external documentation at all. He's got strong opinions, hopefully there are strong reasons.
– Dark Matter
5 hours ago
1
1
If 7 lines of comments were worthless, couldn't 99k of comments be worthless :) I agree that good code has meaningful comments though.
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
If 7 lines of comments were worthless, couldn't 99k of comments be worthless :) I agree that good code has meaningful comments though.
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
1
1
@TimB No argument from me. (Though some languages make it easier to write clear code, compared to others).
– Gregroy Currie
4 hours ago
@TimB No argument from me. (Though some languages make it easier to write clear code, compared to others).
– Gregroy Currie
4 hours ago
@Dark Matter: On the other end of the scale, I've seen profusely commented code (often done with automatic "documentation" generators) in which the vast majority of comments are of the "i++; /* increment i */" sort.
– jamesqf
2 hours ago
@Dark Matter: On the other end of the scale, I've seen profusely commented code (often done with automatic "documentation" generators) in which the vast majority of comments are of the "i++; /* increment i */" sort.
– jamesqf
2 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Talk about it with your colleague/unofficial teamleader.
You think he knows your opinion about the topic but it may not be this way.
He invited you to the meeting which means he values your opinion. (I assume here that he didn't invite you to taunt you because your high opinion on the good working climate)
Tell him directly that the software he wants to introduce would, in your opinion, hinder further development of the project.
The cause for his support for the software in question might be personal, which he should overthink.
If this isn't the case ask him to explain to you why he thinks the software will improve the development.
A normal discussion about work related topic which does affect your work shouldn't cause danger to your employment or social status in your company.
It might even improve because you show compassion for your work.
But most importantly: You do it professional.
EDIT1: If your colleague does not show any kind of good reasoning talk about it with your manager afterwards. Maybe propose a three-way discussion to get the topic dealt with fast.
New contributor
2
He could also have been invited to give the illusion of objectivity.
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
Nevertheless the fact that OP was invited to the meeting means that the OP does have competence in the topic and is therefore qualified/entitled to be part of the decision. And because the co-worker cannot end the illusion now means that he can do nothing about OP expressing his honest and professional opinion.
– GittingGud
5 hours ago
1
I don't think that's necessarily true, though it is probably true in this instance. But I agree fully that he should make the most of this "illusion".
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
add a comment |
Talk about it with your colleague/unofficial teamleader.
You think he knows your opinion about the topic but it may not be this way.
He invited you to the meeting which means he values your opinion. (I assume here that he didn't invite you to taunt you because your high opinion on the good working climate)
Tell him directly that the software he wants to introduce would, in your opinion, hinder further development of the project.
The cause for his support for the software in question might be personal, which he should overthink.
If this isn't the case ask him to explain to you why he thinks the software will improve the development.
A normal discussion about work related topic which does affect your work shouldn't cause danger to your employment or social status in your company.
It might even improve because you show compassion for your work.
But most importantly: You do it professional.
EDIT1: If your colleague does not show any kind of good reasoning talk about it with your manager afterwards. Maybe propose a three-way discussion to get the topic dealt with fast.
New contributor
2
He could also have been invited to give the illusion of objectivity.
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
Nevertheless the fact that OP was invited to the meeting means that the OP does have competence in the topic and is therefore qualified/entitled to be part of the decision. And because the co-worker cannot end the illusion now means that he can do nothing about OP expressing his honest and professional opinion.
– GittingGud
5 hours ago
1
I don't think that's necessarily true, though it is probably true in this instance. But I agree fully that he should make the most of this "illusion".
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
add a comment |
Talk about it with your colleague/unofficial teamleader.
You think he knows your opinion about the topic but it may not be this way.
He invited you to the meeting which means he values your opinion. (I assume here that he didn't invite you to taunt you because your high opinion on the good working climate)
Tell him directly that the software he wants to introduce would, in your opinion, hinder further development of the project.
The cause for his support for the software in question might be personal, which he should overthink.
If this isn't the case ask him to explain to you why he thinks the software will improve the development.
A normal discussion about work related topic which does affect your work shouldn't cause danger to your employment or social status in your company.
It might even improve because you show compassion for your work.
But most importantly: You do it professional.
EDIT1: If your colleague does not show any kind of good reasoning talk about it with your manager afterwards. Maybe propose a three-way discussion to get the topic dealt with fast.
New contributor
Talk about it with your colleague/unofficial teamleader.
You think he knows your opinion about the topic but it may not be this way.
He invited you to the meeting which means he values your opinion. (I assume here that he didn't invite you to taunt you because your high opinion on the good working climate)
Tell him directly that the software he wants to introduce would, in your opinion, hinder further development of the project.
The cause for his support for the software in question might be personal, which he should overthink.
If this isn't the case ask him to explain to you why he thinks the software will improve the development.
A normal discussion about work related topic which does affect your work shouldn't cause danger to your employment or social status in your company.
It might even improve because you show compassion for your work.
But most importantly: You do it professional.
EDIT1: If your colleague does not show any kind of good reasoning talk about it with your manager afterwards. Maybe propose a three-way discussion to get the topic dealt with fast.
New contributor
edited 5 hours ago
New contributor
answered 5 hours ago
GittingGudGittingGud
1042
1042
New contributor
New contributor
2
He could also have been invited to give the illusion of objectivity.
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
Nevertheless the fact that OP was invited to the meeting means that the OP does have competence in the topic and is therefore qualified/entitled to be part of the decision. And because the co-worker cannot end the illusion now means that he can do nothing about OP expressing his honest and professional opinion.
– GittingGud
5 hours ago
1
I don't think that's necessarily true, though it is probably true in this instance. But I agree fully that he should make the most of this "illusion".
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
add a comment |
2
He could also have been invited to give the illusion of objectivity.
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
Nevertheless the fact that OP was invited to the meeting means that the OP does have competence in the topic and is therefore qualified/entitled to be part of the decision. And because the co-worker cannot end the illusion now means that he can do nothing about OP expressing his honest and professional opinion.
– GittingGud
5 hours ago
1
I don't think that's necessarily true, though it is probably true in this instance. But I agree fully that he should make the most of this "illusion".
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
2
2
He could also have been invited to give the illusion of objectivity.
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
He could also have been invited to give the illusion of objectivity.
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
Nevertheless the fact that OP was invited to the meeting means that the OP does have competence in the topic and is therefore qualified/entitled to be part of the decision. And because the co-worker cannot end the illusion now means that he can do nothing about OP expressing his honest and professional opinion.
– GittingGud
5 hours ago
Nevertheless the fact that OP was invited to the meeting means that the OP does have competence in the topic and is therefore qualified/entitled to be part of the decision. And because the co-worker cannot end the illusion now means that he can do nothing about OP expressing his honest and professional opinion.
– GittingGud
5 hours ago
1
1
I don't think that's necessarily true, though it is probably true in this instance. But I agree fully that he should make the most of this "illusion".
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
I don't think that's necessarily true, though it is probably true in this instance. But I agree fully that he should make the most of this "illusion".
– Gregroy Currie
5 hours ago
add a comment |
(Good) management is influenced by logic, not name-calling. Reading your OP, you have mentioned that you think this software is crap, but you didn't say how or why. If I was a manager and I read your OP, I would think you were just a troublemaker, and you would lose face with me. If this is how you wrote the email to management, then it's a good thing you didn't send it.
What you want to do is lay out, plainly and objectively, what your objections are. Maybe you have a use case that this software doesn't satisfy? Maybe the software is too slow or doesn't meet other benchmarks? Maybe the support isn't there for it, so technical issues that arise would be hard to resolve? Maybe it's just plain buggy? Whatever the problems are, explain them in a clear and detailed way to management. Don't use words like "crap" or "horrible" or whatever; those are weasel words and don't mean anything. Outline your concerns, and let your concerns speak for themselves.
Thanks. This is what I did. It probably won't have any effect, we will see on the long-term, what happens.
– Gray Sheep
1 hour ago
add a comment |
(Good) management is influenced by logic, not name-calling. Reading your OP, you have mentioned that you think this software is crap, but you didn't say how or why. If I was a manager and I read your OP, I would think you were just a troublemaker, and you would lose face with me. If this is how you wrote the email to management, then it's a good thing you didn't send it.
What you want to do is lay out, plainly and objectively, what your objections are. Maybe you have a use case that this software doesn't satisfy? Maybe the software is too slow or doesn't meet other benchmarks? Maybe the support isn't there for it, so technical issues that arise would be hard to resolve? Maybe it's just plain buggy? Whatever the problems are, explain them in a clear and detailed way to management. Don't use words like "crap" or "horrible" or whatever; those are weasel words and don't mean anything. Outline your concerns, and let your concerns speak for themselves.
Thanks. This is what I did. It probably won't have any effect, we will see on the long-term, what happens.
– Gray Sheep
1 hour ago
add a comment |
(Good) management is influenced by logic, not name-calling. Reading your OP, you have mentioned that you think this software is crap, but you didn't say how or why. If I was a manager and I read your OP, I would think you were just a troublemaker, and you would lose face with me. If this is how you wrote the email to management, then it's a good thing you didn't send it.
What you want to do is lay out, plainly and objectively, what your objections are. Maybe you have a use case that this software doesn't satisfy? Maybe the software is too slow or doesn't meet other benchmarks? Maybe the support isn't there for it, so technical issues that arise would be hard to resolve? Maybe it's just plain buggy? Whatever the problems are, explain them in a clear and detailed way to management. Don't use words like "crap" or "horrible" or whatever; those are weasel words and don't mean anything. Outline your concerns, and let your concerns speak for themselves.
(Good) management is influenced by logic, not name-calling. Reading your OP, you have mentioned that you think this software is crap, but you didn't say how or why. If I was a manager and I read your OP, I would think you were just a troublemaker, and you would lose face with me. If this is how you wrote the email to management, then it's a good thing you didn't send it.
What you want to do is lay out, plainly and objectively, what your objections are. Maybe you have a use case that this software doesn't satisfy? Maybe the software is too slow or doesn't meet other benchmarks? Maybe the support isn't there for it, so technical issues that arise would be hard to resolve? Maybe it's just plain buggy? Whatever the problems are, explain them in a clear and detailed way to management. Don't use words like "crap" or "horrible" or whatever; those are weasel words and don't mean anything. Outline your concerns, and let your concerns speak for themselves.
answered 3 hours ago
Ertai87Ertai87
10.1k21128
10.1k21128
Thanks. This is what I did. It probably won't have any effect, we will see on the long-term, what happens.
– Gray Sheep
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Thanks. This is what I did. It probably won't have any effect, we will see on the long-term, what happens.
– Gray Sheep
1 hour ago
Thanks. This is what I did. It probably won't have any effect, we will see on the long-term, what happens.
– Gray Sheep
1 hour ago
Thanks. This is what I did. It probably won't have any effect, we will see on the long-term, what happens.
– Gray Sheep
1 hour ago
add a comment |
You call this software "crap" a couple of times, so you clearly know a thing or two about what it does, and what your company actually needs. Write up a document (email) outlining your concerns about the features / functionality, and send it to your boss.
I would suggest also offering alternatives, such that you're not simply coming across as jealous, or negative. Make a table analyzing features, pricing, etc.
Some options that don't share the same risks are X, and Y. The pricing for X is a little higher than the option proposed by John, but offers these advantages: ...
At the very end of the email you may include a phrase along the lines of:
As you can see, there are solid reasons why we should continue looking for a product to fill this niche. Furthermore I fear that John's decision to recommend this software may be influenced by the fact that a close personal friend of his created it.
You may want to hold that tidbit of information in reserve just in case you have to escalate, however.
Yes, I know far more enough from this software to call it a crap. Its only advantage is that it helps the developers to avoid learning technology X, what is a quite common technology in the industry, but somehow they've solved to avoid to learn it. Now the teamlead came with this software, which avoids them to learn it, as a side effect 1) it helps him to exterminate me 2) it will lead to malpractice on the long-term. I see these, but now the word of the teamlead + the developers standing with him is against mine. Surely mine will be more weak.
– Gray Sheep
2 hours ago
add a comment |
You call this software "crap" a couple of times, so you clearly know a thing or two about what it does, and what your company actually needs. Write up a document (email) outlining your concerns about the features / functionality, and send it to your boss.
I would suggest also offering alternatives, such that you're not simply coming across as jealous, or negative. Make a table analyzing features, pricing, etc.
Some options that don't share the same risks are X, and Y. The pricing for X is a little higher than the option proposed by John, but offers these advantages: ...
At the very end of the email you may include a phrase along the lines of:
As you can see, there are solid reasons why we should continue looking for a product to fill this niche. Furthermore I fear that John's decision to recommend this software may be influenced by the fact that a close personal friend of his created it.
You may want to hold that tidbit of information in reserve just in case you have to escalate, however.
Yes, I know far more enough from this software to call it a crap. Its only advantage is that it helps the developers to avoid learning technology X, what is a quite common technology in the industry, but somehow they've solved to avoid to learn it. Now the teamlead came with this software, which avoids them to learn it, as a side effect 1) it helps him to exterminate me 2) it will lead to malpractice on the long-term. I see these, but now the word of the teamlead + the developers standing with him is against mine. Surely mine will be more weak.
– Gray Sheep
2 hours ago
add a comment |
You call this software "crap" a couple of times, so you clearly know a thing or two about what it does, and what your company actually needs. Write up a document (email) outlining your concerns about the features / functionality, and send it to your boss.
I would suggest also offering alternatives, such that you're not simply coming across as jealous, or negative. Make a table analyzing features, pricing, etc.
Some options that don't share the same risks are X, and Y. The pricing for X is a little higher than the option proposed by John, but offers these advantages: ...
At the very end of the email you may include a phrase along the lines of:
As you can see, there are solid reasons why we should continue looking for a product to fill this niche. Furthermore I fear that John's decision to recommend this software may be influenced by the fact that a close personal friend of his created it.
You may want to hold that tidbit of information in reserve just in case you have to escalate, however.
You call this software "crap" a couple of times, so you clearly know a thing or two about what it does, and what your company actually needs. Write up a document (email) outlining your concerns about the features / functionality, and send it to your boss.
I would suggest also offering alternatives, such that you're not simply coming across as jealous, or negative. Make a table analyzing features, pricing, etc.
Some options that don't share the same risks are X, and Y. The pricing for X is a little higher than the option proposed by John, but offers these advantages: ...
At the very end of the email you may include a phrase along the lines of:
As you can see, there are solid reasons why we should continue looking for a product to fill this niche. Furthermore I fear that John's decision to recommend this software may be influenced by the fact that a close personal friend of his created it.
You may want to hold that tidbit of information in reserve just in case you have to escalate, however.
answered 5 hours ago
AndreiROMAndreiROM
45.9k22108178
45.9k22108178
Yes, I know far more enough from this software to call it a crap. Its only advantage is that it helps the developers to avoid learning technology X, what is a quite common technology in the industry, but somehow they've solved to avoid to learn it. Now the teamlead came with this software, which avoids them to learn it, as a side effect 1) it helps him to exterminate me 2) it will lead to malpractice on the long-term. I see these, but now the word of the teamlead + the developers standing with him is against mine. Surely mine will be more weak.
– Gray Sheep
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Yes, I know far more enough from this software to call it a crap. Its only advantage is that it helps the developers to avoid learning technology X, what is a quite common technology in the industry, but somehow they've solved to avoid to learn it. Now the teamlead came with this software, which avoids them to learn it, as a side effect 1) it helps him to exterminate me 2) it will lead to malpractice on the long-term. I see these, but now the word of the teamlead + the developers standing with him is against mine. Surely mine will be more weak.
– Gray Sheep
2 hours ago
Yes, I know far more enough from this software to call it a crap. Its only advantage is that it helps the developers to avoid learning technology X, what is a quite common technology in the industry, but somehow they've solved to avoid to learn it. Now the teamlead came with this software, which avoids them to learn it, as a side effect 1) it helps him to exterminate me 2) it will lead to malpractice on the long-term. I see these, but now the word of the teamlead + the developers standing with him is against mine. Surely mine will be more weak.
– Gray Sheep
2 hours ago
Yes, I know far more enough from this software to call it a crap. Its only advantage is that it helps the developers to avoid learning technology X, what is a quite common technology in the industry, but somehow they've solved to avoid to learn it. Now the teamlead came with this software, which avoids them to learn it, as a side effect 1) it helps him to exterminate me 2) it will lead to malpractice on the long-term. I see these, but now the word of the teamlead + the developers standing with him is against mine. Surely mine will be more weak.
– Gray Sheep
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Your colleague has a conflict of interest. You should discuss this with the other members of your organization, and make sure that the software is properly evaluated by a party without vested interest and free from undue influence.
A possible conflict of interest is a non-issue if the tool is good, and this is what now the whole team except me is saying.
– Gray Sheep
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Your colleague has a conflict of interest. You should discuss this with the other members of your organization, and make sure that the software is properly evaluated by a party without vested interest and free from undue influence.
A possible conflict of interest is a non-issue if the tool is good, and this is what now the whole team except me is saying.
– Gray Sheep
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Your colleague has a conflict of interest. You should discuss this with the other members of your organization, and make sure that the software is properly evaluated by a party without vested interest and free from undue influence.
Your colleague has a conflict of interest. You should discuss this with the other members of your organization, and make sure that the software is properly evaluated by a party without vested interest and free from undue influence.
answered 3 hours ago
MattHMattH
592
592
A possible conflict of interest is a non-issue if the tool is good, and this is what now the whole team except me is saying.
– Gray Sheep
1 hour ago
add a comment |
A possible conflict of interest is a non-issue if the tool is good, and this is what now the whole team except me is saying.
– Gray Sheep
1 hour ago
A possible conflict of interest is a non-issue if the tool is good, and this is what now the whole team except me is saying.
– Gray Sheep
1 hour ago
A possible conflict of interest is a non-issue if the tool is good, and this is what now the whole team except me is saying.
– Gray Sheep
1 hour ago
add a comment |
If his friend doesn't work for the company, then injecting his buds software into the company's workflow is simply a conflict of interest. Pointing that out would help a lot.
I'd also explain to my boss why this software is crap and I'd try to provide some cost benefits analysis of using it. I'd even go so far as to attempt to show how much money the company will lose from the lost development time dealing with the unmaintainable can of worms your team lead's friend is trying to pass off as code. That should help too.
You are going above your team leads head though, so this likely won't have the greatest impact on your career at your current company. You're a dev though; you can always get another job, that will probably come with a pay raise, so you shouldn't be scared in situations like these.
I am here because the athmosphere is nice and the bosses hear us. These are huge improvements to my previous experiences, and they worth the little bit lower wage for me. I don't want to become a slave again only for +10%. If I switch to another job, I will lose these.
– Gray Sheep
2 hours ago
Ok. There is a technology, call "technology X", which is quite common in the industry and practically all useful developer knows it. Our devs somehow managed to avoid to learn it until now. The tool, call it "tool Y" what the teamlead want to inject, has three effects: 1) avoids the devs to learn "technology X" 2) will lead to various malpractices/customer unsatisifedness on the long-term 3) expels me as devops from the projects using "technology X". | These are the facts. What are the motives, these are still unknown for me.
– Gray Sheep
1 hour ago
@GraySheep totally had this question confused with another lol. My bad. There's another question where I gave similar advice because that person is dealing with physical fighting during meetings.
– Steve
1 hour ago
@GraySheep why is your involvement with the project pivotal to its success? What other advantages would learning tech X give your team. You need an estimate of how much time/money the malpractices will cause. Also, is there a good reason that your team insists on not using tech X?
– Steve
1 hour ago
It is not pivotal. A developer can be a successful developer without knowing a key technology on his field, a team of such developers can be a successful team. Project development without devops can be a successful project development (btw, I never wanted to become a devops here, it just happened so in many small steps). The chances are only smaller.
– Gray Sheep
1 hour ago
|
show 2 more comments
If his friend doesn't work for the company, then injecting his buds software into the company's workflow is simply a conflict of interest. Pointing that out would help a lot.
I'd also explain to my boss why this software is crap and I'd try to provide some cost benefits analysis of using it. I'd even go so far as to attempt to show how much money the company will lose from the lost development time dealing with the unmaintainable can of worms your team lead's friend is trying to pass off as code. That should help too.
You are going above your team leads head though, so this likely won't have the greatest impact on your career at your current company. You're a dev though; you can always get another job, that will probably come with a pay raise, so you shouldn't be scared in situations like these.
I am here because the athmosphere is nice and the bosses hear us. These are huge improvements to my previous experiences, and they worth the little bit lower wage for me. I don't want to become a slave again only for +10%. If I switch to another job, I will lose these.
– Gray Sheep
2 hours ago
Ok. There is a technology, call "technology X", which is quite common in the industry and practically all useful developer knows it. Our devs somehow managed to avoid to learn it until now. The tool, call it "tool Y" what the teamlead want to inject, has three effects: 1) avoids the devs to learn "technology X" 2) will lead to various malpractices/customer unsatisifedness on the long-term 3) expels me as devops from the projects using "technology X". | These are the facts. What are the motives, these are still unknown for me.
– Gray Sheep
1 hour ago
@GraySheep totally had this question confused with another lol. My bad. There's another question where I gave similar advice because that person is dealing with physical fighting during meetings.
– Steve
1 hour ago
@GraySheep why is your involvement with the project pivotal to its success? What other advantages would learning tech X give your team. You need an estimate of how much time/money the malpractices will cause. Also, is there a good reason that your team insists on not using tech X?
– Steve
1 hour ago
It is not pivotal. A developer can be a successful developer without knowing a key technology on his field, a team of such developers can be a successful team. Project development without devops can be a successful project development (btw, I never wanted to become a devops here, it just happened so in many small steps). The chances are only smaller.
– Gray Sheep
1 hour ago
|
show 2 more comments
If his friend doesn't work for the company, then injecting his buds software into the company's workflow is simply a conflict of interest. Pointing that out would help a lot.
I'd also explain to my boss why this software is crap and I'd try to provide some cost benefits analysis of using it. I'd even go so far as to attempt to show how much money the company will lose from the lost development time dealing with the unmaintainable can of worms your team lead's friend is trying to pass off as code. That should help too.
You are going above your team leads head though, so this likely won't have the greatest impact on your career at your current company. You're a dev though; you can always get another job, that will probably come with a pay raise, so you shouldn't be scared in situations like these.
If his friend doesn't work for the company, then injecting his buds software into the company's workflow is simply a conflict of interest. Pointing that out would help a lot.
I'd also explain to my boss why this software is crap and I'd try to provide some cost benefits analysis of using it. I'd even go so far as to attempt to show how much money the company will lose from the lost development time dealing with the unmaintainable can of worms your team lead's friend is trying to pass off as code. That should help too.
You are going above your team leads head though, so this likely won't have the greatest impact on your career at your current company. You're a dev though; you can always get another job, that will probably come with a pay raise, so you shouldn't be scared in situations like these.
answered 2 hours ago
SteveSteve
3,059618
3,059618
I am here because the athmosphere is nice and the bosses hear us. These are huge improvements to my previous experiences, and they worth the little bit lower wage for me. I don't want to become a slave again only for +10%. If I switch to another job, I will lose these.
– Gray Sheep
2 hours ago
Ok. There is a technology, call "technology X", which is quite common in the industry and practically all useful developer knows it. Our devs somehow managed to avoid to learn it until now. The tool, call it "tool Y" what the teamlead want to inject, has three effects: 1) avoids the devs to learn "technology X" 2) will lead to various malpractices/customer unsatisifedness on the long-term 3) expels me as devops from the projects using "technology X". | These are the facts. What are the motives, these are still unknown for me.
– Gray Sheep
1 hour ago
@GraySheep totally had this question confused with another lol. My bad. There's another question where I gave similar advice because that person is dealing with physical fighting during meetings.
– Steve
1 hour ago
@GraySheep why is your involvement with the project pivotal to its success? What other advantages would learning tech X give your team. You need an estimate of how much time/money the malpractices will cause. Also, is there a good reason that your team insists on not using tech X?
– Steve
1 hour ago
It is not pivotal. A developer can be a successful developer without knowing a key technology on his field, a team of such developers can be a successful team. Project development without devops can be a successful project development (btw, I never wanted to become a devops here, it just happened so in many small steps). The chances are only smaller.
– Gray Sheep
1 hour ago
|
show 2 more comments
I am here because the athmosphere is nice and the bosses hear us. These are huge improvements to my previous experiences, and they worth the little bit lower wage for me. I don't want to become a slave again only for +10%. If I switch to another job, I will lose these.
– Gray Sheep
2 hours ago
Ok. There is a technology, call "technology X", which is quite common in the industry and practically all useful developer knows it. Our devs somehow managed to avoid to learn it until now. The tool, call it "tool Y" what the teamlead want to inject, has three effects: 1) avoids the devs to learn "technology X" 2) will lead to various malpractices/customer unsatisifedness on the long-term 3) expels me as devops from the projects using "technology X". | These are the facts. What are the motives, these are still unknown for me.
– Gray Sheep
1 hour ago
@GraySheep totally had this question confused with another lol. My bad. There's another question where I gave similar advice because that person is dealing with physical fighting during meetings.
– Steve
1 hour ago
@GraySheep why is your involvement with the project pivotal to its success? What other advantages would learning tech X give your team. You need an estimate of how much time/money the malpractices will cause. Also, is there a good reason that your team insists on not using tech X?
– Steve
1 hour ago
It is not pivotal. A developer can be a successful developer without knowing a key technology on his field, a team of such developers can be a successful team. Project development without devops can be a successful project development (btw, I never wanted to become a devops here, it just happened so in many small steps). The chances are only smaller.
– Gray Sheep
1 hour ago
I am here because the athmosphere is nice and the bosses hear us. These are huge improvements to my previous experiences, and they worth the little bit lower wage for me. I don't want to become a slave again only for +10%. If I switch to another job, I will lose these.
– Gray Sheep
2 hours ago
I am here because the athmosphere is nice and the bosses hear us. These are huge improvements to my previous experiences, and they worth the little bit lower wage for me. I don't want to become a slave again only for +10%. If I switch to another job, I will lose these.
– Gray Sheep
2 hours ago
Ok. There is a technology, call "technology X", which is quite common in the industry and practically all useful developer knows it. Our devs somehow managed to avoid to learn it until now. The tool, call it "tool Y" what the teamlead want to inject, has three effects: 1) avoids the devs to learn "technology X" 2) will lead to various malpractices/customer unsatisifedness on the long-term 3) expels me as devops from the projects using "technology X". | These are the facts. What are the motives, these are still unknown for me.
– Gray Sheep
1 hour ago
Ok. There is a technology, call "technology X", which is quite common in the industry and practically all useful developer knows it. Our devs somehow managed to avoid to learn it until now. The tool, call it "tool Y" what the teamlead want to inject, has three effects: 1) avoids the devs to learn "technology X" 2) will lead to various malpractices/customer unsatisifedness on the long-term 3) expels me as devops from the projects using "technology X". | These are the facts. What are the motives, these are still unknown for me.
– Gray Sheep
1 hour ago
@GraySheep totally had this question confused with another lol. My bad. There's another question where I gave similar advice because that person is dealing with physical fighting during meetings.
– Steve
1 hour ago
@GraySheep totally had this question confused with another lol. My bad. There's another question where I gave similar advice because that person is dealing with physical fighting during meetings.
– Steve
1 hour ago
@GraySheep why is your involvement with the project pivotal to its success? What other advantages would learning tech X give your team. You need an estimate of how much time/money the malpractices will cause. Also, is there a good reason that your team insists on not using tech X?
– Steve
1 hour ago
@GraySheep why is your involvement with the project pivotal to its success? What other advantages would learning tech X give your team. You need an estimate of how much time/money the malpractices will cause. Also, is there a good reason that your team insists on not using tech X?
– Steve
1 hour ago
It is not pivotal. A developer can be a successful developer without knowing a key technology on his field, a team of such developers can be a successful team. Project development without devops can be a successful project development (btw, I never wanted to become a devops here, it just happened so in many small steps). The chances are only smaller.
– Gray Sheep
1 hour ago
It is not pivotal. A developer can be a successful developer without knowing a key technology on his field, a team of such developers can be a successful team. Project development without devops can be a successful project development (btw, I never wanted to become a devops here, it just happened so in many small steps). The chances are only smaller.
– Gray Sheep
1 hour ago
|
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