Why didn't they order Spock to perform the Vulcan “Mind Meld” on Captian Pike?
In the Star Trek TOS episode "The Menagerie", why didn't they have Spock perform a Mind Meld on Captain Pike instead accepting the Talosian transmissions from Talos IV as proof of what had happened?
star-trek star-trek-tos spock captain-pike
edited 5 hours ago
Machavity
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asked Mar 8 '12 at 20:19
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add a comment |
In the Star Trek TOS episode "The Menagerie", why didn't they have Spock perform a Mind Meld on Captain Pike instead accepting the Talosian transmissions from Talos IV as proof of what had happened?
star-trek star-trek-tos spock captain-pike
edited 5 hours ago
Machavity
24.9k575142
asked Mar 8 '12 at 20:19
Major StackingsMajor Stackings
33.5k38222486
add a comment |
In the Star Trek TOS episode "The Menagerie", why didn't they have Spock perform a Mind Meld on Captain Pike instead accepting the Talosian transmissions from Talos IV as proof of what had happened?
star-trek star-trek-tos spock captain-pike
edited 5 hours ago
Machavity
24.9k575142
asked Mar 8 '12 at 20:19
Major StackingsMajor Stackings
33.5k38222486
In the Star Trek TOS episode "The Menagerie", why didn't they have Spock perform a Mind Meld on Captain Pike instead accepting the Talosian transmissions from Talos IV as proof of what had happened?
star-trek star-trek-tos spock captain-pike
star-trek star-trek-tos spock captain-pike
edited 5 hours ago
Machavity
24.9k575142
asked Mar 8 '12 at 20:19
Major StackingsMajor Stackings
33.5k38222486
edited 5 hours ago
Machavity
24.9k575142
asked Mar 8 '12 at 20:19
Major StackingsMajor Stackings
33.5k38222486
edited 5 hours ago
Machavity
24.9k575142
edited 5 hours ago
Machavity
24.9k575142
edited 5 hours ago
Machavity
24.9k575142
24.9k575142
asked Mar 8 '12 at 20:19
Major StackingsMajor Stackings
33.5k38222486
asked Mar 8 '12 at 20:19
Major StackingsMajor Stackings
33.5k38222486
asked Mar 8 '12 at 20:19
Major StackingsMajor Stackings
33.5k38222486
33.5k38222486
add a comment |
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
Spock was on trial and couldn't be expected to cooperate. His testimony about the state of Pike's mind wouldn't be trustworthy, anyway. Mendez was a projection from Talos IV and so wouldn't suggest anything the Talosians didn't want nor would he allow the mind meld even if Kirk suggested it. The information stream from Talos IV was at least something all the members of the court martial could watch objectively and make up their minds about.
answered Mar 9 '12 at 0:42
Kyle JonesKyle Jones
46.3k11141222
1
Besides this, In "Court Martial" and "Turnabout Intruder" mind meld testimony is revealed to be not allowed procedurally.
– Joshua
Sep 8 '16 at 2:29
add a comment |
Spock was generally opposed to mind melding without the subject's permission. And it's one thing to do it without permission to an enemy or a threat, another to do it to a Starfleet officer.
answered Mar 8 '12 at 22:31
SingularityCoSingularityCo
754414
5
He could have asked Pike's permission. "May I perform a mind meld on you?" "Beep."
– Keith Thompson
Mar 9 '12 at 7:33
But then would have that been following the order?
– SingularityCo
Mar 16 '12 at 13:00
Yes. The hypothetical order didn't require doing it without permission.
– Keith Thompson
Mar 16 '12 at 16:12
Interesting distinction. That's a whole other episode.
– SingularityCo
Mar 20 '12 at 19:48
add a comment |
This is not an in-universe explanation.
The first appearance of the Vulcan mind meld was only a couple of weeks before that episode aired.
The first mind meld, as far as I can tell, appeared in Dagger of the Mind, which aired Nov. 3, 1966. The Menagerie parts I and II aired November 17 and 24, 1966. Gene Roddenberry has a writing credit for both (well, all three) episodes, but it's likely that the whole idea of Vulcan telepathy just wasn't invented in time to be used in The Menagerie.
Note that Where No Man Has Gone Before, which aired two months earlier, dealt heavily with telepathy, with Spock discussing it at some length -- but there was no mention that Spock himself was telepathic.
answered Mar 9 '12 at 7:41
Keith ThompsonKeith Thompson
7,26443953
add a comment |
As I recall, Spock was the one on trial. Were he to provide evidence gotten by way of mind meld, there would be no guarantee that his report of what had happened would be accurate. Logic aside, he could very well lie to protect his own best interests.
answered Mar 8 '12 at 22:29
Adele CAdele C
8,51253575
1
I'm not sure, didn't Vulcans also never lie. The bend the truth on occasion or omit information, but would (and could) they boldly lie? If I recall correctly, they couldn't.
– bitmask
Mar 8 '12 at 22:44
3
Oh, they can. They are just reluctant to. See the TOS episode 'The Enterprise Incident' (memorable for Spock 'killing' Kirk via the 'Vulcan Death Grip'), or the Tholian Web episode, where he and McCoy claim to have never read Kirk's 'last orders'.
– K-H-W
Mar 9 '12 at 1:12
1
In "The Enterprise Incident", the Romulan commander said something like, "I have heard it said -- or is it only a myth -- that Vulcans are incapable of lying." Spock replied, "It is no myth." Marvelously ambiguous.
– Keith Thompson
Mar 9 '12 at 7:59
Spock is also only half Vulcan.
– Adele C
Mar 9 '12 at 19:35
add a comment |
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4 Answers
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active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
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votes
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oldest
votes
Spock was on trial and couldn't be expected to cooperate. His testimony about the state of Pike's mind wouldn't be trustworthy, anyway. Mendez was a projection from Talos IV and so wouldn't suggest anything the Talosians didn't want nor would he allow the mind meld even if Kirk suggested it. The information stream from Talos IV was at least something all the members of the court martial could watch objectively and make up their minds about.
answered Mar 9 '12 at 0:42
Kyle JonesKyle Jones
46.3k11141222
1
Besides this, In "Court Martial" and "Turnabout Intruder" mind meld testimony is revealed to be not allowed procedurally.
– Joshua
Sep 8 '16 at 2:29
add a comment |
Spock was on trial and couldn't be expected to cooperate. His testimony about the state of Pike's mind wouldn't be trustworthy, anyway. Mendez was a projection from Talos IV and so wouldn't suggest anything the Talosians didn't want nor would he allow the mind meld even if Kirk suggested it. The information stream from Talos IV was at least something all the members of the court martial could watch objectively and make up their minds about.
answered Mar 9 '12 at 0:42
Kyle JonesKyle Jones
46.3k11141222
1
Besides this, In "Court Martial" and "Turnabout Intruder" mind meld testimony is revealed to be not allowed procedurally.
– Joshua
Sep 8 '16 at 2:29
add a comment |
Spock was on trial and couldn't be expected to cooperate. His testimony about the state of Pike's mind wouldn't be trustworthy, anyway. Mendez was a projection from Talos IV and so wouldn't suggest anything the Talosians didn't want nor would he allow the mind meld even if Kirk suggested it. The information stream from Talos IV was at least something all the members of the court martial could watch objectively and make up their minds about.
answered Mar 9 '12 at 0:42
Kyle JonesKyle Jones
46.3k11141222
Spock was on trial and couldn't be expected to cooperate. His testimony about the state of Pike's mind wouldn't be trustworthy, anyway. Mendez was a projection from Talos IV and so wouldn't suggest anything the Talosians didn't want nor would he allow the mind meld even if Kirk suggested it. The information stream from Talos IV was at least something all the members of the court martial could watch objectively and make up their minds about.
answered Mar 9 '12 at 0:42
Kyle JonesKyle Jones
46.3k11141222
answered Mar 9 '12 at 0:42
Kyle JonesKyle Jones
46.3k11141222
answered Mar 9 '12 at 0:42
Kyle JonesKyle Jones
46.3k11141222
answered Mar 9 '12 at 0:42
Kyle JonesKyle Jones
46.3k11141222
46.3k11141222
1
Besides this, In "Court Martial" and "Turnabout Intruder" mind meld testimony is revealed to be not allowed procedurally.
– Joshua
Sep 8 '16 at 2:29
add a comment |
1
Besides this, In "Court Martial" and "Turnabout Intruder" mind meld testimony is revealed to be not allowed procedurally.
– Joshua
Sep 8 '16 at 2:29
1
1
Besides this, In "Court Martial" and "Turnabout Intruder" mind meld testimony is revealed to be not allowed procedurally.
– Joshua
Sep 8 '16 at 2:29
Besides this, In "Court Martial" and "Turnabout Intruder" mind meld testimony is revealed to be not allowed procedurally.
– Joshua
Sep 8 '16 at 2:29
add a comment |
Spock was generally opposed to mind melding without the subject's permission. And it's one thing to do it without permission to an enemy or a threat, another to do it to a Starfleet officer.
answered Mar 8 '12 at 22:31
SingularityCoSingularityCo
754414
5
He could have asked Pike's permission. "May I perform a mind meld on you?" "Beep."
– Keith Thompson
Mar 9 '12 at 7:33
But then would have that been following the order?
– SingularityCo
Mar 16 '12 at 13:00
Yes. The hypothetical order didn't require doing it without permission.
– Keith Thompson
Mar 16 '12 at 16:12
Interesting distinction. That's a whole other episode.
– SingularityCo
Mar 20 '12 at 19:48
add a comment |
Spock was generally opposed to mind melding without the subject's permission. And it's one thing to do it without permission to an enemy or a threat, another to do it to a Starfleet officer.
answered Mar 8 '12 at 22:31
SingularityCoSingularityCo
754414
5
He could have asked Pike's permission. "May I perform a mind meld on you?" "Beep."
– Keith Thompson
Mar 9 '12 at 7:33
But then would have that been following the order?
– SingularityCo
Mar 16 '12 at 13:00
Yes. The hypothetical order didn't require doing it without permission.
– Keith Thompson
Mar 16 '12 at 16:12
Interesting distinction. That's a whole other episode.
– SingularityCo
Mar 20 '12 at 19:48
add a comment |
Spock was generally opposed to mind melding without the subject's permission. And it's one thing to do it without permission to an enemy or a threat, another to do it to a Starfleet officer.
answered Mar 8 '12 at 22:31
SingularityCoSingularityCo
754414
Spock was generally opposed to mind melding without the subject's permission. And it's one thing to do it without permission to an enemy or a threat, another to do it to a Starfleet officer.
answered Mar 8 '12 at 22:31
SingularityCoSingularityCo
754414
answered Mar 8 '12 at 22:31
SingularityCoSingularityCo
754414
answered Mar 8 '12 at 22:31
SingularityCoSingularityCo
754414
answered Mar 8 '12 at 22:31
SingularityCoSingularityCo
754414
754414
5
He could have asked Pike's permission. "May I perform a mind meld on you?" "Beep."
– Keith Thompson
Mar 9 '12 at 7:33
But then would have that been following the order?
– SingularityCo
Mar 16 '12 at 13:00
Yes. The hypothetical order didn't require doing it without permission.
– Keith Thompson
Mar 16 '12 at 16:12
Interesting distinction. That's a whole other episode.
– SingularityCo
Mar 20 '12 at 19:48
add a comment |
5
He could have asked Pike's permission. "May I perform a mind meld on you?" "Beep."
– Keith Thompson
Mar 9 '12 at 7:33
But then would have that been following the order?
– SingularityCo
Mar 16 '12 at 13:00
Yes. The hypothetical order didn't require doing it without permission.
– Keith Thompson
Mar 16 '12 at 16:12
Interesting distinction. That's a whole other episode.
– SingularityCo
Mar 20 '12 at 19:48
5
5
He could have asked Pike's permission. "May I perform a mind meld on you?" "Beep."
– Keith Thompson
Mar 9 '12 at 7:33
He could have asked Pike's permission. "May I perform a mind meld on you?" "Beep."
– Keith Thompson
Mar 9 '12 at 7:33
But then would have that been following the order?
– SingularityCo
Mar 16 '12 at 13:00
But then would have that been following the order?
– SingularityCo
Mar 16 '12 at 13:00
Yes. The hypothetical order didn't require doing it without permission.
– Keith Thompson
Mar 16 '12 at 16:12
Yes. The hypothetical order didn't require doing it without permission.
– Keith Thompson
Mar 16 '12 at 16:12
Interesting distinction. That's a whole other episode.
– SingularityCo
Mar 20 '12 at 19:48
Interesting distinction. That's a whole other episode.
– SingularityCo
Mar 20 '12 at 19:48
add a comment |
This is not an in-universe explanation.
The first appearance of the Vulcan mind meld was only a couple of weeks before that episode aired.
The first mind meld, as far as I can tell, appeared in Dagger of the Mind, which aired Nov. 3, 1966. The Menagerie parts I and II aired November 17 and 24, 1966. Gene Roddenberry has a writing credit for both (well, all three) episodes, but it's likely that the whole idea of Vulcan telepathy just wasn't invented in time to be used in The Menagerie.
Note that Where No Man Has Gone Before, which aired two months earlier, dealt heavily with telepathy, with Spock discussing it at some length -- but there was no mention that Spock himself was telepathic.
answered Mar 9 '12 at 7:41
Keith ThompsonKeith Thompson
7,26443953
add a comment |
This is not an in-universe explanation.
The first appearance of the Vulcan mind meld was only a couple of weeks before that episode aired.
The first mind meld, as far as I can tell, appeared in Dagger of the Mind, which aired Nov. 3, 1966. The Menagerie parts I and II aired November 17 and 24, 1966. Gene Roddenberry has a writing credit for both (well, all three) episodes, but it's likely that the whole idea of Vulcan telepathy just wasn't invented in time to be used in The Menagerie.
Note that Where No Man Has Gone Before, which aired two months earlier, dealt heavily with telepathy, with Spock discussing it at some length -- but there was no mention that Spock himself was telepathic.
answered Mar 9 '12 at 7:41
Keith ThompsonKeith Thompson
7,26443953
add a comment |
This is not an in-universe explanation.
The first appearance of the Vulcan mind meld was only a couple of weeks before that episode aired.
The first mind meld, as far as I can tell, appeared in Dagger of the Mind, which aired Nov. 3, 1966. The Menagerie parts I and II aired November 17 and 24, 1966. Gene Roddenberry has a writing credit for both (well, all three) episodes, but it's likely that the whole idea of Vulcan telepathy just wasn't invented in time to be used in The Menagerie.
Note that Where No Man Has Gone Before, which aired two months earlier, dealt heavily with telepathy, with Spock discussing it at some length -- but there was no mention that Spock himself was telepathic.
answered Mar 9 '12 at 7:41
Keith ThompsonKeith Thompson
7,26443953
This is not an in-universe explanation.
The first appearance of the Vulcan mind meld was only a couple of weeks before that episode aired.
The first mind meld, as far as I can tell, appeared in Dagger of the Mind, which aired Nov. 3, 1966. The Menagerie parts I and II aired November 17 and 24, 1966. Gene Roddenberry has a writing credit for both (well, all three) episodes, but it's likely that the whole idea of Vulcan telepathy just wasn't invented in time to be used in The Menagerie.
Note that Where No Man Has Gone Before, which aired two months earlier, dealt heavily with telepathy, with Spock discussing it at some length -- but there was no mention that Spock himself was telepathic.
answered Mar 9 '12 at 7:41
Keith ThompsonKeith Thompson
7,26443953
edited Mar 9 '12 at 19:50
answered Mar 9 '12 at 7:41
Keith ThompsonKeith Thompson
7,26443953
answered Mar 9 '12 at 7:41
Keith ThompsonKeith Thompson
7,26443953
answered Mar 9 '12 at 7:41
Keith ThompsonKeith Thompson
7,26443953
7,26443953
add a comment |
add a comment |
As I recall, Spock was the one on trial. Were he to provide evidence gotten by way of mind meld, there would be no guarantee that his report of what had happened would be accurate. Logic aside, he could very well lie to protect his own best interests.
answered Mar 8 '12 at 22:29
Adele CAdele C
8,51253575
1
I'm not sure, didn't Vulcans also never lie. The bend the truth on occasion or omit information, but would (and could) they boldly lie? If I recall correctly, they couldn't.
– bitmask
Mar 8 '12 at 22:44
3
Oh, they can. They are just reluctant to. See the TOS episode 'The Enterprise Incident' (memorable for Spock 'killing' Kirk via the 'Vulcan Death Grip'), or the Tholian Web episode, where he and McCoy claim to have never read Kirk's 'last orders'.
– K-H-W
Mar 9 '12 at 1:12
1
In "The Enterprise Incident", the Romulan commander said something like, "I have heard it said -- or is it only a myth -- that Vulcans are incapable of lying." Spock replied, "It is no myth." Marvelously ambiguous.
– Keith Thompson
Mar 9 '12 at 7:59
Spock is also only half Vulcan.
– Adele C
Mar 9 '12 at 19:35
add a comment |
As I recall, Spock was the one on trial. Were he to provide evidence gotten by way of mind meld, there would be no guarantee that his report of what had happened would be accurate. Logic aside, he could very well lie to protect his own best interests.
answered Mar 8 '12 at 22:29
Adele CAdele C
8,51253575
1
I'm not sure, didn't Vulcans also never lie. The bend the truth on occasion or omit information, but would (and could) they boldly lie? If I recall correctly, they couldn't.
– bitmask
Mar 8 '12 at 22:44
3
Oh, they can. They are just reluctant to. See the TOS episode 'The Enterprise Incident' (memorable for Spock 'killing' Kirk via the 'Vulcan Death Grip'), or the Tholian Web episode, where he and McCoy claim to have never read Kirk's 'last orders'.
– K-H-W
Mar 9 '12 at 1:12
1
In "The Enterprise Incident", the Romulan commander said something like, "I have heard it said -- or is it only a myth -- that Vulcans are incapable of lying." Spock replied, "It is no myth." Marvelously ambiguous.
– Keith Thompson
Mar 9 '12 at 7:59
Spock is also only half Vulcan.
– Adele C
Mar 9 '12 at 19:35
add a comment |
As I recall, Spock was the one on trial. Were he to provide evidence gotten by way of mind meld, there would be no guarantee that his report of what had happened would be accurate. Logic aside, he could very well lie to protect his own best interests.
answered Mar 8 '12 at 22:29
Adele CAdele C
8,51253575
As I recall, Spock was the one on trial. Were he to provide evidence gotten by way of mind meld, there would be no guarantee that his report of what had happened would be accurate. Logic aside, he could very well lie to protect his own best interests.
answered Mar 8 '12 at 22:29
Adele CAdele C
8,51253575
answered Mar 8 '12 at 22:29
Adele CAdele C
8,51253575
answered Mar 8 '12 at 22:29
Adele CAdele C
8,51253575
answered Mar 8 '12 at 22:29
Adele CAdele C
8,51253575
8,51253575
1
I'm not sure, didn't Vulcans also never lie. The bend the truth on occasion or omit information, but would (and could) they boldly lie? If I recall correctly, they couldn't.
– bitmask
Mar 8 '12 at 22:44
3
Oh, they can. They are just reluctant to. See the TOS episode 'The Enterprise Incident' (memorable for Spock 'killing' Kirk via the 'Vulcan Death Grip'), or the Tholian Web episode, where he and McCoy claim to have never read Kirk's 'last orders'.
– K-H-W
Mar 9 '12 at 1:12
1
In "The Enterprise Incident", the Romulan commander said something like, "I have heard it said -- or is it only a myth -- that Vulcans are incapable of lying." Spock replied, "It is no myth." Marvelously ambiguous.
– Keith Thompson
Mar 9 '12 at 7:59
Spock is also only half Vulcan.
– Adele C
Mar 9 '12 at 19:35
add a comment |
1
I'm not sure, didn't Vulcans also never lie. The bend the truth on occasion or omit information, but would (and could) they boldly lie? If I recall correctly, they couldn't.
– bitmask
Mar 8 '12 at 22:44
3
Oh, they can. They are just reluctant to. See the TOS episode 'The Enterprise Incident' (memorable for Spock 'killing' Kirk via the 'Vulcan Death Grip'), or the Tholian Web episode, where he and McCoy claim to have never read Kirk's 'last orders'.
– K-H-W
Mar 9 '12 at 1:12
1
In "The Enterprise Incident", the Romulan commander said something like, "I have heard it said -- or is it only a myth -- that Vulcans are incapable of lying." Spock replied, "It is no myth." Marvelously ambiguous.
– Keith Thompson
Mar 9 '12 at 7:59
Spock is also only half Vulcan.
– Adele C
Mar 9 '12 at 19:35
1
1
I'm not sure, didn't Vulcans also never lie. The bend the truth on occasion or omit information, but would (and could) they boldly lie? If I recall correctly, they couldn't.
– bitmask
Mar 8 '12 at 22:44
I'm not sure, didn't Vulcans also never lie. The bend the truth on occasion or omit information, but would (and could) they boldly lie? If I recall correctly, they couldn't.
– bitmask
Mar 8 '12 at 22:44
3
3
Oh, they can. They are just reluctant to. See the TOS episode 'The Enterprise Incident' (memorable for Spock 'killing' Kirk via the 'Vulcan Death Grip'), or the Tholian Web episode, where he and McCoy claim to have never read Kirk's 'last orders'.
– K-H-W
Mar 9 '12 at 1:12
Oh, they can. They are just reluctant to. See the TOS episode 'The Enterprise Incident' (memorable for Spock 'killing' Kirk via the 'Vulcan Death Grip'), or the Tholian Web episode, where he and McCoy claim to have never read Kirk's 'last orders'.
– K-H-W
Mar 9 '12 at 1:12
1
1
In "The Enterprise Incident", the Romulan commander said something like, "I have heard it said -- or is it only a myth -- that Vulcans are incapable of lying." Spock replied, "It is no myth." Marvelously ambiguous.
– Keith Thompson
Mar 9 '12 at 7:59
In "The Enterprise Incident", the Romulan commander said something like, "I have heard it said -- or is it only a myth -- that Vulcans are incapable of lying." Spock replied, "It is no myth." Marvelously ambiguous.
– Keith Thompson
Mar 9 '12 at 7:59
Spock is also only half Vulcan.
– Adele C
Mar 9 '12 at 19:35
Spock is also only half Vulcan.
– Adele C
Mar 9 '12 at 19:35
add a comment |
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