Dress code exists, but coworkers do not follow it. How to dress?
I recently started an intern position in a new office, and was told that the dress code is business casual. In theory, it is also the case that there are "dress down Fridays", where jeans are explicitly listed as acceptable attire.
In practice, however, it is the case that most of the office usually dresses somewhere between business casual and casual. Many of my coworkers (and even some in management) will wear jeans every day to work, and t-shirts are not an uncommon sight.
This is a fairly easy going office, so I'm sure that being slightly under/overdressed wouldn't be a big problem to begin with; at a company happy hour, I was actually told by a member of another team that I must be new because "I dressed too nice".
If a dress code exists but is not strictly followed, what should one dress? I'm inclined to observe my coworkers and dress alike, but there is some significant variation in that (some dress more casual and some more formal, which makes that quite a bit harder). Nearly everyone else in the company is more senior than I am - so I have no example to set - but I believe I do have to be concerned about whatever "privileges" someone more senior may have.
This is in the US, and I work at a tech company situated in a more traditional office setting.
edit: I am in software development, and not in a customer facing position.
software-industry united-states dress-code
asked 10 hours ago
osuka_osuka_
1897
New contributor
osuka_ is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
|
show 2 more comments
I recently started an intern position in a new office, and was told that the dress code is business casual. In theory, it is also the case that there are "dress down Fridays", where jeans are explicitly listed as acceptable attire.
In practice, however, it is the case that most of the office usually dresses somewhere between business casual and casual. Many of my coworkers (and even some in management) will wear jeans every day to work, and t-shirts are not an uncommon sight.
This is a fairly easy going office, so I'm sure that being slightly under/overdressed wouldn't be a big problem to begin with; at a company happy hour, I was actually told by a member of another team that I must be new because "I dressed too nice".
If a dress code exists but is not strictly followed, what should one dress? I'm inclined to observe my coworkers and dress alike, but there is some significant variation in that (some dress more casual and some more formal, which makes that quite a bit harder). Nearly everyone else in the company is more senior than I am - so I have no example to set - but I believe I do have to be concerned about whatever "privileges" someone more senior may have.
This is in the US, and I work at a tech company situated in a more traditional office setting.
edit: I am in software development, and not in a customer facing position.
software-industry united-states dress-code
asked 10 hours ago
osuka_osuka_
1897
New contributor
osuka_ is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Are you on the technical or non-technical side? I find that in Silicon Valley, engineers tend to be more dressed down and some will look down on those dressed too well.
– jcmack
10 hours ago
2
I'm pretty sure I have now or I used to have "business casual" in some of my employments. Now I google for it and discover it bans jeans, for example. Which would sound insane to any of the employments. Probably whoever put it there has different idea of what it means.
– max630
9 hours ago
1
Possible duplicate of Can it be harmful to dress more formally than what the dress code allows?
– solarflare
9 hours ago
7
"If a dress code exists but is not strictly followed, what should one dress?" - there's a saying that goes: Do business as business is done. Just wear clothing similar to what you see others wear - particularly others at higher positions for which you aspire.
– Joe Strazzere
8 hours ago
2
@JoeStrazzere your comment should be an answer. I wish I could accept comments
– osuka_
7 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
I recently started an intern position in a new office, and was told that the dress code is business casual. In theory, it is also the case that there are "dress down Fridays", where jeans are explicitly listed as acceptable attire.
In practice, however, it is the case that most of the office usually dresses somewhere between business casual and casual. Many of my coworkers (and even some in management) will wear jeans every day to work, and t-shirts are not an uncommon sight.
This is a fairly easy going office, so I'm sure that being slightly under/overdressed wouldn't be a big problem to begin with; at a company happy hour, I was actually told by a member of another team that I must be new because "I dressed too nice".
If a dress code exists but is not strictly followed, what should one dress? I'm inclined to observe my coworkers and dress alike, but there is some significant variation in that (some dress more casual and some more formal, which makes that quite a bit harder). Nearly everyone else in the company is more senior than I am - so I have no example to set - but I believe I do have to be concerned about whatever "privileges" someone more senior may have.
This is in the US, and I work at a tech company situated in a more traditional office setting.
edit: I am in software development, and not in a customer facing position.
software-industry united-states dress-code
asked 10 hours ago
osuka_osuka_
1897
New contributor
osuka_ is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
I recently started an intern position in a new office, and was told that the dress code is business casual. In theory, it is also the case that there are "dress down Fridays", where jeans are explicitly listed as acceptable attire.
In practice, however, it is the case that most of the office usually dresses somewhere between business casual and casual. Many of my coworkers (and even some in management) will wear jeans every day to work, and t-shirts are not an uncommon sight.
This is a fairly easy going office, so I'm sure that being slightly under/overdressed wouldn't be a big problem to begin with; at a company happy hour, I was actually told by a member of another team that I must be new because "I dressed too nice".
If a dress code exists but is not strictly followed, what should one dress? I'm inclined to observe my coworkers and dress alike, but there is some significant variation in that (some dress more casual and some more formal, which makes that quite a bit harder). Nearly everyone else in the company is more senior than I am - so I have no example to set - but I believe I do have to be concerned about whatever "privileges" someone more senior may have.
This is in the US, and I work at a tech company situated in a more traditional office setting.
edit: I am in software development, and not in a customer facing position.
software-industry united-states dress-code
software-industry united-states dress-code
asked 10 hours ago
osuka_osuka_
1897
New contributor
osuka_ is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 10 hours ago
osuka_osuka_
1897
New contributor
osuka_ is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 9 hours ago
osuka_
asked 10 hours ago
osuka_osuka_
1897
New contributor
osuka_ is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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asked 10 hours ago
osuka_osuka_
1897
asked 10 hours ago
osuka_osuka_
1897
1897
New contributor
osuka_ is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
osuka_ is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
osuka_ is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Are you on the technical or non-technical side? I find that in Silicon Valley, engineers tend to be more dressed down and some will look down on those dressed too well.
– jcmack
10 hours ago
2
I'm pretty sure I have now or I used to have "business casual" in some of my employments. Now I google for it and discover it bans jeans, for example. Which would sound insane to any of the employments. Probably whoever put it there has different idea of what it means.
– max630
9 hours ago
1
Possible duplicate of Can it be harmful to dress more formally than what the dress code allows?
– solarflare
9 hours ago
7
"If a dress code exists but is not strictly followed, what should one dress?" - there's a saying that goes: Do business as business is done. Just wear clothing similar to what you see others wear - particularly others at higher positions for which you aspire.
– Joe Strazzere
8 hours ago
2
@JoeStrazzere your comment should be an answer. I wish I could accept comments
– osuka_
7 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
Are you on the technical or non-technical side? I find that in Silicon Valley, engineers tend to be more dressed down and some will look down on those dressed too well.
– jcmack
10 hours ago
2
I'm pretty sure I have now or I used to have "business casual" in some of my employments. Now I google for it and discover it bans jeans, for example. Which would sound insane to any of the employments. Probably whoever put it there has different idea of what it means.
– max630
9 hours ago
1
Possible duplicate of Can it be harmful to dress more formally than what the dress code allows?
– solarflare
9 hours ago
7
"If a dress code exists but is not strictly followed, what should one dress?" - there's a saying that goes: Do business as business is done. Just wear clothing similar to what you see others wear - particularly others at higher positions for which you aspire.
– Joe Strazzere
8 hours ago
2
@JoeStrazzere your comment should be an answer. I wish I could accept comments
– osuka_
7 hours ago
Are you on the technical or non-technical side? I find that in Silicon Valley, engineers tend to be more dressed down and some will look down on those dressed too well.
– jcmack
10 hours ago
Are you on the technical or non-technical side? I find that in Silicon Valley, engineers tend to be more dressed down and some will look down on those dressed too well.
– jcmack
10 hours ago
2
2
I'm pretty sure I have now or I used to have "business casual" in some of my employments. Now I google for it and discover it bans jeans, for example. Which would sound insane to any of the employments. Probably whoever put it there has different idea of what it means.
– max630
9 hours ago
I'm pretty sure I have now or I used to have "business casual" in some of my employments. Now I google for it and discover it bans jeans, for example. Which would sound insane to any of the employments. Probably whoever put it there has different idea of what it means.
– max630
9 hours ago
1
1
Possible duplicate of Can it be harmful to dress more formally than what the dress code allows?
– solarflare
9 hours ago
Possible duplicate of Can it be harmful to dress more formally than what the dress code allows?
– solarflare
9 hours ago
7
7
"If a dress code exists but is not strictly followed, what should one dress?" - there's a saying that goes: Do business as business is done. Just wear clothing similar to what you see others wear - particularly others at higher positions for which you aspire.
– Joe Strazzere
8 hours ago
"If a dress code exists but is not strictly followed, what should one dress?" - there's a saying that goes: Do business as business is done. Just wear clothing similar to what you see others wear - particularly others at higher positions for which you aspire.
– Joe Strazzere
8 hours ago
2
2
@JoeStrazzere your comment should be an answer. I wish I could accept comments
– osuka_
7 hours ago
@JoeStrazzere your comment should be an answer. I wish I could accept comments
– osuka_
7 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
As in intern, you should follow the advice of your direct Manager. It doesn't hurt to clarify the situation.
Their answer is likely to lead you to dress to the prevailing norms or better.
Meaning, while jeans and a t-shirt are common, you stick with jeans and a polo. You don't want to be over dressed, despite the technical rules. That gives the impression you're not really part of the team.
answered 9 hours ago
Johns-305Johns-305
2,442513
add a comment |
As an intern you adhere to the rules. Don't worry about what others are doing. If you look more professional than them that's a bonus, not a liability.
answered 10 hours ago
KilisiKilisi
117k66256448
add a comment |
I think you've had good advice so far. At the very least, I'd learn more about the company culture and try and understand why the policy isn't being followed before joining the crowd.
An obvious example of needing to understand the culture is that there could be an element of "while the cat's away the mice can play" in how people are dressing down more often and they will all go back to "normal" if they know a particular senior is visiting, or a client demo is arranged or whatever. If you don't know that then you easily could be caught out.
answered 10 hours ago
Rob MoirRob Moir
5,22831736
+1. My last company had a dress code imposed by headquarters . . . except that headquarters was far away in another state, and everyone in my small office completely ignored the dress code except on the rare occasions that someone from management was visiting. (We did try to warn our interns and new hires about that, but better to ask and be sure.)
– ruakh
3 hours ago
add a comment |
It's perfectly fine to stay with business casual if that's what you are most comfortable in. If you wish to wear jeans and t-shirt, just ask your manager/team lead at your next one-on-one meeting if it were okay to do so. Most likely this is a non-issue.
answered 10 hours ago
Sebastian ProskeSebastian Proske
1,0741612
add a comment |
Johns-305 had a good answer in "dress to the prevailing norms or better", and that's what I would recommend, regardless of what the on-paper dress code says.
However, there's a possible cultural misunderstanding going on. Business casual is an ambiguous term that varies greatly depending on where you live and what industry you work in, and it may mean something different to the company than it does to you. In the western US, and at technology companies in particular (you mention being a software developer), it tends to be much more casual than other places or industries. I work at a software company in Denver, and our "business casual" dress code just means "nice jeans without holes, T-shirts are okay as long as you look clean and not ratty". I don't know the particulars of your office, but it sounds like your coworkers are adhering to the dress code as understood by the company.
answered 6 hours ago
Kerry McKeanKerry McKean
211
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5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
As in intern, you should follow the advice of your direct Manager. It doesn't hurt to clarify the situation.
Their answer is likely to lead you to dress to the prevailing norms or better.
Meaning, while jeans and a t-shirt are common, you stick with jeans and a polo. You don't want to be over dressed, despite the technical rules. That gives the impression you're not really part of the team.
answered 9 hours ago
Johns-305Johns-305
2,442513
add a comment |
As in intern, you should follow the advice of your direct Manager. It doesn't hurt to clarify the situation.
Their answer is likely to lead you to dress to the prevailing norms or better.
Meaning, while jeans and a t-shirt are common, you stick with jeans and a polo. You don't want to be over dressed, despite the technical rules. That gives the impression you're not really part of the team.
answered 9 hours ago
Johns-305Johns-305
2,442513
add a comment |
As in intern, you should follow the advice of your direct Manager. It doesn't hurt to clarify the situation.
Their answer is likely to lead you to dress to the prevailing norms or better.
Meaning, while jeans and a t-shirt are common, you stick with jeans and a polo. You don't want to be over dressed, despite the technical rules. That gives the impression you're not really part of the team.
answered 9 hours ago
Johns-305Johns-305
2,442513
As in intern, you should follow the advice of your direct Manager. It doesn't hurt to clarify the situation.
Their answer is likely to lead you to dress to the prevailing norms or better.
Meaning, while jeans and a t-shirt are common, you stick with jeans and a polo. You don't want to be over dressed, despite the technical rules. That gives the impression you're not really part of the team.
answered 9 hours ago
Johns-305Johns-305
2,442513
edited 7 hours ago
answered 9 hours ago
Johns-305Johns-305
2,442513
answered 9 hours ago
Johns-305Johns-305
2,442513
answered 9 hours ago
Johns-305Johns-305
2,442513
2,442513
add a comment |
add a comment |
As an intern you adhere to the rules. Don't worry about what others are doing. If you look more professional than them that's a bonus, not a liability.
answered 10 hours ago
KilisiKilisi
117k66256448
add a comment |
As an intern you adhere to the rules. Don't worry about what others are doing. If you look more professional than them that's a bonus, not a liability.
answered 10 hours ago
KilisiKilisi
117k66256448
add a comment |
As an intern you adhere to the rules. Don't worry about what others are doing. If you look more professional than them that's a bonus, not a liability.
answered 10 hours ago
KilisiKilisi
117k66256448
As an intern you adhere to the rules. Don't worry about what others are doing. If you look more professional than them that's a bonus, not a liability.
answered 10 hours ago
KilisiKilisi
117k66256448
answered 10 hours ago
KilisiKilisi
117k66256448
answered 10 hours ago
KilisiKilisi
117k66256448
answered 10 hours ago
KilisiKilisi
117k66256448
117k66256448
add a comment |
add a comment |
I think you've had good advice so far. At the very least, I'd learn more about the company culture and try and understand why the policy isn't being followed before joining the crowd.
An obvious example of needing to understand the culture is that there could be an element of "while the cat's away the mice can play" in how people are dressing down more often and they will all go back to "normal" if they know a particular senior is visiting, or a client demo is arranged or whatever. If you don't know that then you easily could be caught out.
answered 10 hours ago
Rob MoirRob Moir
5,22831736
+1. My last company had a dress code imposed by headquarters . . . except that headquarters was far away in another state, and everyone in my small office completely ignored the dress code except on the rare occasions that someone from management was visiting. (We did try to warn our interns and new hires about that, but better to ask and be sure.)
– ruakh
3 hours ago
add a comment |
I think you've had good advice so far. At the very least, I'd learn more about the company culture and try and understand why the policy isn't being followed before joining the crowd.
An obvious example of needing to understand the culture is that there could be an element of "while the cat's away the mice can play" in how people are dressing down more often and they will all go back to "normal" if they know a particular senior is visiting, or a client demo is arranged or whatever. If you don't know that then you easily could be caught out.
answered 10 hours ago
Rob MoirRob Moir
5,22831736
+1. My last company had a dress code imposed by headquarters . . . except that headquarters was far away in another state, and everyone in my small office completely ignored the dress code except on the rare occasions that someone from management was visiting. (We did try to warn our interns and new hires about that, but better to ask and be sure.)
– ruakh
3 hours ago
add a comment |
I think you've had good advice so far. At the very least, I'd learn more about the company culture and try and understand why the policy isn't being followed before joining the crowd.
An obvious example of needing to understand the culture is that there could be an element of "while the cat's away the mice can play" in how people are dressing down more often and they will all go back to "normal" if they know a particular senior is visiting, or a client demo is arranged or whatever. If you don't know that then you easily could be caught out.
answered 10 hours ago
Rob MoirRob Moir
5,22831736
I think you've had good advice so far. At the very least, I'd learn more about the company culture and try and understand why the policy isn't being followed before joining the crowd.
An obvious example of needing to understand the culture is that there could be an element of "while the cat's away the mice can play" in how people are dressing down more often and they will all go back to "normal" if they know a particular senior is visiting, or a client demo is arranged or whatever. If you don't know that then you easily could be caught out.
answered 10 hours ago
Rob MoirRob Moir
5,22831736
answered 10 hours ago
Rob MoirRob Moir
5,22831736
answered 10 hours ago
Rob MoirRob Moir
5,22831736
answered 10 hours ago
Rob MoirRob Moir
5,22831736
5,22831736
+1. My last company had a dress code imposed by headquarters . . . except that headquarters was far away in another state, and everyone in my small office completely ignored the dress code except on the rare occasions that someone from management was visiting. (We did try to warn our interns and new hires about that, but better to ask and be sure.)
– ruakh
3 hours ago
add a comment |
+1. My last company had a dress code imposed by headquarters . . . except that headquarters was far away in another state, and everyone in my small office completely ignored the dress code except on the rare occasions that someone from management was visiting. (We did try to warn our interns and new hires about that, but better to ask and be sure.)
– ruakh
3 hours ago
+1. My last company had a dress code imposed by headquarters . . . except that headquarters was far away in another state, and everyone in my small office completely ignored the dress code except on the rare occasions that someone from management was visiting. (We did try to warn our interns and new hires about that, but better to ask and be sure.)
– ruakh
3 hours ago
+1. My last company had a dress code imposed by headquarters . . . except that headquarters was far away in another state, and everyone in my small office completely ignored the dress code except on the rare occasions that someone from management was visiting. (We did try to warn our interns and new hires about that, but better to ask and be sure.)
– ruakh
3 hours ago
add a comment |
It's perfectly fine to stay with business casual if that's what you are most comfortable in. If you wish to wear jeans and t-shirt, just ask your manager/team lead at your next one-on-one meeting if it were okay to do so. Most likely this is a non-issue.
answered 10 hours ago
Sebastian ProskeSebastian Proske
1,0741612
add a comment |
It's perfectly fine to stay with business casual if that's what you are most comfortable in. If you wish to wear jeans and t-shirt, just ask your manager/team lead at your next one-on-one meeting if it were okay to do so. Most likely this is a non-issue.
answered 10 hours ago
Sebastian ProskeSebastian Proske
1,0741612
add a comment |
It's perfectly fine to stay with business casual if that's what you are most comfortable in. If you wish to wear jeans and t-shirt, just ask your manager/team lead at your next one-on-one meeting if it were okay to do so. Most likely this is a non-issue.
answered 10 hours ago
Sebastian ProskeSebastian Proske
1,0741612
It's perfectly fine to stay with business casual if that's what you are most comfortable in. If you wish to wear jeans and t-shirt, just ask your manager/team lead at your next one-on-one meeting if it were okay to do so. Most likely this is a non-issue.
answered 10 hours ago
Sebastian ProskeSebastian Proske
1,0741612
answered 10 hours ago
Sebastian ProskeSebastian Proske
1,0741612
answered 10 hours ago
Sebastian ProskeSebastian Proske
1,0741612
answered 10 hours ago
Sebastian ProskeSebastian Proske
1,0741612
1,0741612
add a comment |
add a comment |
Johns-305 had a good answer in "dress to the prevailing norms or better", and that's what I would recommend, regardless of what the on-paper dress code says.
However, there's a possible cultural misunderstanding going on. Business casual is an ambiguous term that varies greatly depending on where you live and what industry you work in, and it may mean something different to the company than it does to you. In the western US, and at technology companies in particular (you mention being a software developer), it tends to be much more casual than other places or industries. I work at a software company in Denver, and our "business casual" dress code just means "nice jeans without holes, T-shirts are okay as long as you look clean and not ratty". I don't know the particulars of your office, but it sounds like your coworkers are adhering to the dress code as understood by the company.
answered 6 hours ago
Kerry McKeanKerry McKean
211
New contributor
Kerry McKean is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
Johns-305 had a good answer in "dress to the prevailing norms or better", and that's what I would recommend, regardless of what the on-paper dress code says.
However, there's a possible cultural misunderstanding going on. Business casual is an ambiguous term that varies greatly depending on where you live and what industry you work in, and it may mean something different to the company than it does to you. In the western US, and at technology companies in particular (you mention being a software developer), it tends to be much more casual than other places or industries. I work at a software company in Denver, and our "business casual" dress code just means "nice jeans without holes, T-shirts are okay as long as you look clean and not ratty". I don't know the particulars of your office, but it sounds like your coworkers are adhering to the dress code as understood by the company.
answered 6 hours ago
Kerry McKeanKerry McKean
211
New contributor
Kerry McKean is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
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Johns-305 had a good answer in "dress to the prevailing norms or better", and that's what I would recommend, regardless of what the on-paper dress code says.
However, there's a possible cultural misunderstanding going on. Business casual is an ambiguous term that varies greatly depending on where you live and what industry you work in, and it may mean something different to the company than it does to you. In the western US, and at technology companies in particular (you mention being a software developer), it tends to be much more casual than other places or industries. I work at a software company in Denver, and our "business casual" dress code just means "nice jeans without holes, T-shirts are okay as long as you look clean and not ratty". I don't know the particulars of your office, but it sounds like your coworkers are adhering to the dress code as understood by the company.
answered 6 hours ago
Kerry McKeanKerry McKean
211
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Johns-305 had a good answer in "dress to the prevailing norms or better", and that's what I would recommend, regardless of what the on-paper dress code says.
However, there's a possible cultural misunderstanding going on. Business casual is an ambiguous term that varies greatly depending on where you live and what industry you work in, and it may mean something different to the company than it does to you. In the western US, and at technology companies in particular (you mention being a software developer), it tends to be much more casual than other places or industries. I work at a software company in Denver, and our "business casual" dress code just means "nice jeans without holes, T-shirts are okay as long as you look clean and not ratty". I don't know the particulars of your office, but it sounds like your coworkers are adhering to the dress code as understood by the company.
answered 6 hours ago
Kerry McKeanKerry McKean
211
New contributor
Kerry McKean is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 6 hours ago
Kerry McKeanKerry McKean
211
New contributor
Kerry McKean is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 6 hours ago
Kerry McKeanKerry McKean
211
answered 6 hours ago
Kerry McKeanKerry McKean
211
211
New contributor
Kerry McKean is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Kerry McKean is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Kerry McKean is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
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osuka_ is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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Are you on the technical or non-technical side? I find that in Silicon Valley, engineers tend to be more dressed down and some will look down on those dressed too well.
– jcmack
10 hours ago
2
I'm pretty sure I have now or I used to have "business casual" in some of my employments. Now I google for it and discover it bans jeans, for example. Which would sound insane to any of the employments. Probably whoever put it there has different idea of what it means.
– max630
9 hours ago
1
Possible duplicate of Can it be harmful to dress more formally than what the dress code allows?
– solarflare
9 hours ago
7
"If a dress code exists but is not strictly followed, what should one dress?" - there's a saying that goes: Do business as business is done. Just wear clothing similar to what you see others wear - particularly others at higher positions for which you aspire.
– Joe Strazzere
8 hours ago
2
@JoeStrazzere your comment should be an answer. I wish I could accept comments
– osuka_
7 hours ago