Not Developing a Piece in the First Five Moves












3















Here are the first few moves:



1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 3.Nd5 Bc5 4.Nf3 e4 5.d4 Bf8



After the fifth move, black has essentially only pushed one pawn, while while has developed two knights and his c-pawn and d-pawn. However, the current position does not seem bad for black at all. 365chess.com gives winnings percentage White / Draw / Black as 25% /50% /25%.



[fen ""]
1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 3.Nd5 Bc5 4.Nf3 e4 5.d4 Bf8


My question is, in the first few moves, has black violated any opening principles? Why this position is not too bad for black while he has only pushed one pawn while white has developed two nights (and it is white's turn now)?










share|improve this question

























  • Why do you think blacks position isn't that bad? White seems to have a solid advantage, more than the advantage from moving first.

    – Matthew Liu
    20 hours ago











  • @MatthewLiu, I never played this position; I concluded from the winning percentage.

    – Zuriel
    20 hours ago











  • Blacks position looks busted. Bf4 d6 Nd2 c6 Nc3 d5 cxd5 cxd5 Nb5 Na6 Rc1. I didn't get an engine to analyze this but white's position seems really good.

    – Matthew Liu
    19 hours ago
















3















Here are the first few moves:



1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 3.Nd5 Bc5 4.Nf3 e4 5.d4 Bf8



After the fifth move, black has essentially only pushed one pawn, while while has developed two knights and his c-pawn and d-pawn. However, the current position does not seem bad for black at all. 365chess.com gives winnings percentage White / Draw / Black as 25% /50% /25%.



[fen ""]
1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 3.Nd5 Bc5 4.Nf3 e4 5.d4 Bf8


My question is, in the first few moves, has black violated any opening principles? Why this position is not too bad for black while he has only pushed one pawn while white has developed two nights (and it is white's turn now)?










share|improve this question

























  • Why do you think blacks position isn't that bad? White seems to have a solid advantage, more than the advantage from moving first.

    – Matthew Liu
    20 hours ago











  • @MatthewLiu, I never played this position; I concluded from the winning percentage.

    – Zuriel
    20 hours ago











  • Blacks position looks busted. Bf4 d6 Nd2 c6 Nc3 d5 cxd5 cxd5 Nb5 Na6 Rc1. I didn't get an engine to analyze this but white's position seems really good.

    – Matthew Liu
    19 hours ago














3












3








3








Here are the first few moves:



1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 3.Nd5 Bc5 4.Nf3 e4 5.d4 Bf8



After the fifth move, black has essentially only pushed one pawn, while while has developed two knights and his c-pawn and d-pawn. However, the current position does not seem bad for black at all. 365chess.com gives winnings percentage White / Draw / Black as 25% /50% /25%.



[fen ""]
1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 3.Nd5 Bc5 4.Nf3 e4 5.d4 Bf8


My question is, in the first few moves, has black violated any opening principles? Why this position is not too bad for black while he has only pushed one pawn while white has developed two nights (and it is white's turn now)?










share|improve this question
















Here are the first few moves:



1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 3.Nd5 Bc5 4.Nf3 e4 5.d4 Bf8



After the fifth move, black has essentially only pushed one pawn, while while has developed two knights and his c-pawn and d-pawn. However, the current position does not seem bad for black at all. 365chess.com gives winnings percentage White / Draw / Black as 25% /50% /25%.



[fen ""]
1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 3.Nd5 Bc5 4.Nf3 e4 5.d4 Bf8


My question is, in the first few moves, has black violated any opening principles? Why this position is not too bad for black while he has only pushed one pawn while white has developed two nights (and it is white's turn now)?







opening english-opening development






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share|improve this question













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edited 15 hours ago







Zuriel

















asked 21 hours ago









ZurielZuriel

651312




651312













  • Why do you think blacks position isn't that bad? White seems to have a solid advantage, more than the advantage from moving first.

    – Matthew Liu
    20 hours ago











  • @MatthewLiu, I never played this position; I concluded from the winning percentage.

    – Zuriel
    20 hours ago











  • Blacks position looks busted. Bf4 d6 Nd2 c6 Nc3 d5 cxd5 cxd5 Nb5 Na6 Rc1. I didn't get an engine to analyze this but white's position seems really good.

    – Matthew Liu
    19 hours ago



















  • Why do you think blacks position isn't that bad? White seems to have a solid advantage, more than the advantage from moving first.

    – Matthew Liu
    20 hours ago











  • @MatthewLiu, I never played this position; I concluded from the winning percentage.

    – Zuriel
    20 hours ago











  • Blacks position looks busted. Bf4 d6 Nd2 c6 Nc3 d5 cxd5 cxd5 Nb5 Na6 Rc1. I didn't get an engine to analyze this but white's position seems really good.

    – Matthew Liu
    19 hours ago

















Why do you think blacks position isn't that bad? White seems to have a solid advantage, more than the advantage from moving first.

– Matthew Liu
20 hours ago





Why do you think blacks position isn't that bad? White seems to have a solid advantage, more than the advantage from moving first.

– Matthew Liu
20 hours ago













@MatthewLiu, I never played this position; I concluded from the winning percentage.

– Zuriel
20 hours ago





@MatthewLiu, I never played this position; I concluded from the winning percentage.

– Zuriel
20 hours ago













Blacks position looks busted. Bf4 d6 Nd2 c6 Nc3 d5 cxd5 cxd5 Nb5 Na6 Rc1. I didn't get an engine to analyze this but white's position seems really good.

– Matthew Liu
19 hours ago





Blacks position looks busted. Bf4 d6 Nd2 c6 Nc3 d5 cxd5 cxd5 Nb5 Na6 Rc1. I didn't get an engine to analyze this but white's position seems really good.

– Matthew Liu
19 hours ago










1 Answer
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Obviously black has violated principles such as:




  • don't move a piece twice

  • develop pieces


However opening principles are just general guidelines and in very concrete positions like the one at hand they are of little use. There are many established openings where opening principles are broken, so nothing wrong with that.



In the final position it is white's move, however the knight on f3 is attacked and has to move. After the knight has moved, black will most certainly kick away the other knight by playing c6 and then create a strong pawn center with d5 or f5.



White has currently a lead in development but black has more space and will have an easier development for its minor pieces than white. If there is nothing immediately threatening from white, I don't see why black should have a bad position.



Note that my engine still prefers white's position by about +0.5.






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    1 Answer
    1






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    6














    Obviously black has violated principles such as:




    • don't move a piece twice

    • develop pieces


    However opening principles are just general guidelines and in very concrete positions like the one at hand they are of little use. There are many established openings where opening principles are broken, so nothing wrong with that.



    In the final position it is white's move, however the knight on f3 is attacked and has to move. After the knight has moved, black will most certainly kick away the other knight by playing c6 and then create a strong pawn center with d5 or f5.



    White has currently a lead in development but black has more space and will have an easier development for its minor pieces than white. If there is nothing immediately threatening from white, I don't see why black should have a bad position.



    Note that my engine still prefers white's position by about +0.5.






    share|improve this answer




























      6














      Obviously black has violated principles such as:




      • don't move a piece twice

      • develop pieces


      However opening principles are just general guidelines and in very concrete positions like the one at hand they are of little use. There are many established openings where opening principles are broken, so nothing wrong with that.



      In the final position it is white's move, however the knight on f3 is attacked and has to move. After the knight has moved, black will most certainly kick away the other knight by playing c6 and then create a strong pawn center with d5 or f5.



      White has currently a lead in development but black has more space and will have an easier development for its minor pieces than white. If there is nothing immediately threatening from white, I don't see why black should have a bad position.



      Note that my engine still prefers white's position by about +0.5.






      share|improve this answer


























        6












        6








        6







        Obviously black has violated principles such as:




        • don't move a piece twice

        • develop pieces


        However opening principles are just general guidelines and in very concrete positions like the one at hand they are of little use. There are many established openings where opening principles are broken, so nothing wrong with that.



        In the final position it is white's move, however the knight on f3 is attacked and has to move. After the knight has moved, black will most certainly kick away the other knight by playing c6 and then create a strong pawn center with d5 or f5.



        White has currently a lead in development but black has more space and will have an easier development for its minor pieces than white. If there is nothing immediately threatening from white, I don't see why black should have a bad position.



        Note that my engine still prefers white's position by about +0.5.






        share|improve this answer













        Obviously black has violated principles such as:




        • don't move a piece twice

        • develop pieces


        However opening principles are just general guidelines and in very concrete positions like the one at hand they are of little use. There are many established openings where opening principles are broken, so nothing wrong with that.



        In the final position it is white's move, however the knight on f3 is attacked and has to move. After the knight has moved, black will most certainly kick away the other knight by playing c6 and then create a strong pawn center with d5 or f5.



        White has currently a lead in development but black has more space and will have an easier development for its minor pieces than white. If there is nothing immediately threatening from white, I don't see why black should have a bad position.



        Note that my engine still prefers white's position by about +0.5.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 21 hours ago









        user1583209user1583209

        12.1k21554




        12.1k21554






























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