Not Developing a Piece in the First Five Moves
Here are the first few moves:
1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 3.Nd5 Bc5 4.Nf3 e4 5.d4 Bf8
After the fifth move, black has essentially only pushed one pawn, while while has developed two knights and his c-pawn and d-pawn. However, the current position does not seem bad for black at all. 365chess.com gives winnings percentage White / Draw / Black as 25% /50% /25%.
[fen ""]
1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 3.Nd5 Bc5 4.Nf3 e4 5.d4 Bf8
My question is, in the first few moves, has black violated any opening principles? Why this position is not too bad for black while he has only pushed one pawn while white has developed two nights (and it is white's turn now)?
opening english-opening development
add a comment |
Here are the first few moves:
1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 3.Nd5 Bc5 4.Nf3 e4 5.d4 Bf8
After the fifth move, black has essentially only pushed one pawn, while while has developed two knights and his c-pawn and d-pawn. However, the current position does not seem bad for black at all. 365chess.com gives winnings percentage White / Draw / Black as 25% /50% /25%.
[fen ""]
1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 3.Nd5 Bc5 4.Nf3 e4 5.d4 Bf8
My question is, in the first few moves, has black violated any opening principles? Why this position is not too bad for black while he has only pushed one pawn while white has developed two nights (and it is white's turn now)?
opening english-opening development
Why do you think blacks position isn't that bad? White seems to have a solid advantage, more than the advantage from moving first.
– Matthew Liu
20 hours ago
@MatthewLiu, I never played this position; I concluded from the winning percentage.
– Zuriel
20 hours ago
Blacks position looks busted. Bf4 d6 Nd2 c6 Nc3 d5 cxd5 cxd5 Nb5 Na6 Rc1. I didn't get an engine to analyze this but white's position seems really good.
– Matthew Liu
19 hours ago
add a comment |
Here are the first few moves:
1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 3.Nd5 Bc5 4.Nf3 e4 5.d4 Bf8
After the fifth move, black has essentially only pushed one pawn, while while has developed two knights and his c-pawn and d-pawn. However, the current position does not seem bad for black at all. 365chess.com gives winnings percentage White / Draw / Black as 25% /50% /25%.
[fen ""]
1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 3.Nd5 Bc5 4.Nf3 e4 5.d4 Bf8
My question is, in the first few moves, has black violated any opening principles? Why this position is not too bad for black while he has only pushed one pawn while white has developed two nights (and it is white's turn now)?
opening english-opening development
Here are the first few moves:
1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 3.Nd5 Bc5 4.Nf3 e4 5.d4 Bf8
After the fifth move, black has essentially only pushed one pawn, while while has developed two knights and his c-pawn and d-pawn. However, the current position does not seem bad for black at all. 365chess.com gives winnings percentage White / Draw / Black as 25% /50% /25%.
[fen ""]
1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 3.Nd5 Bc5 4.Nf3 e4 5.d4 Bf8
My question is, in the first few moves, has black violated any opening principles? Why this position is not too bad for black while he has only pushed one pawn while white has developed two nights (and it is white's turn now)?
opening english-opening development
opening english-opening development
edited 15 hours ago
Zuriel
asked 21 hours ago
ZurielZuriel
651312
651312
Why do you think blacks position isn't that bad? White seems to have a solid advantage, more than the advantage from moving first.
– Matthew Liu
20 hours ago
@MatthewLiu, I never played this position; I concluded from the winning percentage.
– Zuriel
20 hours ago
Blacks position looks busted. Bf4 d6 Nd2 c6 Nc3 d5 cxd5 cxd5 Nb5 Na6 Rc1. I didn't get an engine to analyze this but white's position seems really good.
– Matthew Liu
19 hours ago
add a comment |
Why do you think blacks position isn't that bad? White seems to have a solid advantage, more than the advantage from moving first.
– Matthew Liu
20 hours ago
@MatthewLiu, I never played this position; I concluded from the winning percentage.
– Zuriel
20 hours ago
Blacks position looks busted. Bf4 d6 Nd2 c6 Nc3 d5 cxd5 cxd5 Nb5 Na6 Rc1. I didn't get an engine to analyze this but white's position seems really good.
– Matthew Liu
19 hours ago
Why do you think blacks position isn't that bad? White seems to have a solid advantage, more than the advantage from moving first.
– Matthew Liu
20 hours ago
Why do you think blacks position isn't that bad? White seems to have a solid advantage, more than the advantage from moving first.
– Matthew Liu
20 hours ago
@MatthewLiu, I never played this position; I concluded from the winning percentage.
– Zuriel
20 hours ago
@MatthewLiu, I never played this position; I concluded from the winning percentage.
– Zuriel
20 hours ago
Blacks position looks busted. Bf4 d6 Nd2 c6 Nc3 d5 cxd5 cxd5 Nb5 Na6 Rc1. I didn't get an engine to analyze this but white's position seems really good.
– Matthew Liu
19 hours ago
Blacks position looks busted. Bf4 d6 Nd2 c6 Nc3 d5 cxd5 cxd5 Nb5 Na6 Rc1. I didn't get an engine to analyze this but white's position seems really good.
– Matthew Liu
19 hours ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
Obviously black has violated principles such as:
- don't move a piece twice
- develop pieces
However opening principles are just general guidelines and in very concrete positions like the one at hand they are of little use. There are many established openings where opening principles are broken, so nothing wrong with that.
In the final position it is white's move, however the knight on f3 is attacked and has to move. After the knight has moved, black will most certainly kick away the other knight by playing c6 and then create a strong pawn center with d5 or f5.
White has currently a lead in development but black has more space and will have an easier development for its minor pieces than white. If there is nothing immediately threatening from white, I don't see why black should have a bad position.
Note that my engine still prefers white's position by about +0.5.
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "435"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fchess.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f23758%2fnot-developing-a-piece-in-the-first-five-moves%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Obviously black has violated principles such as:
- don't move a piece twice
- develop pieces
However opening principles are just general guidelines and in very concrete positions like the one at hand they are of little use. There are many established openings where opening principles are broken, so nothing wrong with that.
In the final position it is white's move, however the knight on f3 is attacked and has to move. After the knight has moved, black will most certainly kick away the other knight by playing c6 and then create a strong pawn center with d5 or f5.
White has currently a lead in development but black has more space and will have an easier development for its minor pieces than white. If there is nothing immediately threatening from white, I don't see why black should have a bad position.
Note that my engine still prefers white's position by about +0.5.
add a comment |
Obviously black has violated principles such as:
- don't move a piece twice
- develop pieces
However opening principles are just general guidelines and in very concrete positions like the one at hand they are of little use. There are many established openings where opening principles are broken, so nothing wrong with that.
In the final position it is white's move, however the knight on f3 is attacked and has to move. After the knight has moved, black will most certainly kick away the other knight by playing c6 and then create a strong pawn center with d5 or f5.
White has currently a lead in development but black has more space and will have an easier development for its minor pieces than white. If there is nothing immediately threatening from white, I don't see why black should have a bad position.
Note that my engine still prefers white's position by about +0.5.
add a comment |
Obviously black has violated principles such as:
- don't move a piece twice
- develop pieces
However opening principles are just general guidelines and in very concrete positions like the one at hand they are of little use. There are many established openings where opening principles are broken, so nothing wrong with that.
In the final position it is white's move, however the knight on f3 is attacked and has to move. After the knight has moved, black will most certainly kick away the other knight by playing c6 and then create a strong pawn center with d5 or f5.
White has currently a lead in development but black has more space and will have an easier development for its minor pieces than white. If there is nothing immediately threatening from white, I don't see why black should have a bad position.
Note that my engine still prefers white's position by about +0.5.
Obviously black has violated principles such as:
- don't move a piece twice
- develop pieces
However opening principles are just general guidelines and in very concrete positions like the one at hand they are of little use. There are many established openings where opening principles are broken, so nothing wrong with that.
In the final position it is white's move, however the knight on f3 is attacked and has to move. After the knight has moved, black will most certainly kick away the other knight by playing c6 and then create a strong pawn center with d5 or f5.
White has currently a lead in development but black has more space and will have an easier development for its minor pieces than white. If there is nothing immediately threatening from white, I don't see why black should have a bad position.
Note that my engine still prefers white's position by about +0.5.
answered 21 hours ago
user1583209user1583209
12.1k21554
12.1k21554
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Chess Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fchess.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f23758%2fnot-developing-a-piece-in-the-first-five-moves%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Why do you think blacks position isn't that bad? White seems to have a solid advantage, more than the advantage from moving first.
– Matthew Liu
20 hours ago
@MatthewLiu, I never played this position; I concluded from the winning percentage.
– Zuriel
20 hours ago
Blacks position looks busted. Bf4 d6 Nd2 c6 Nc3 d5 cxd5 cxd5 Nb5 Na6 Rc1. I didn't get an engine to analyze this but white's position seems really good.
– Matthew Liu
19 hours ago