How to calculate the value of expressions of the form $sqrt{a-bsqrt{c}}$?












6












$begingroup$


I was wondering the general method to solve




What is the value of $sqrt{a-bsqrt{c}}?$




The basic method I learned is to set this equal to $x-ysqrt{c}$, but I found out that this doesn't work with $sqrt{5+2sqrt{6}}$ which equals $sqrt{3}+sqrt{2}$. What is the general method to simplify these problems?(i.e. $sqrt{a-bsqrt{c}}=?$)










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$endgroup$








  • 3




    $begingroup$
    "The basic method I learned is to set this equal to $sqrt{x-ysqrt{c}}$" and do what with it? "but I found out that this doesn't work with $sqrt{5+2sqrt{6}}$" why not? What was supposed to happen?
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    18 hours ago


















6












$begingroup$


I was wondering the general method to solve




What is the value of $sqrt{a-bsqrt{c}}?$




The basic method I learned is to set this equal to $x-ysqrt{c}$, but I found out that this doesn't work with $sqrt{5+2sqrt{6}}$ which equals $sqrt{3}+sqrt{2}$. What is the general method to simplify these problems?(i.e. $sqrt{a-bsqrt{c}}=?$)










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 3




    $begingroup$
    "The basic method I learned is to set this equal to $sqrt{x-ysqrt{c}}$" and do what with it? "but I found out that this doesn't work with $sqrt{5+2sqrt{6}}$" why not? What was supposed to happen?
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    18 hours ago
















6












6








6


3



$begingroup$


I was wondering the general method to solve




What is the value of $sqrt{a-bsqrt{c}}?$




The basic method I learned is to set this equal to $x-ysqrt{c}$, but I found out that this doesn't work with $sqrt{5+2sqrt{6}}$ which equals $sqrt{3}+sqrt{2}$. What is the general method to simplify these problems?(i.e. $sqrt{a-bsqrt{c}}=?$)










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




I was wondering the general method to solve




What is the value of $sqrt{a-bsqrt{c}}?$




The basic method I learned is to set this equal to $x-ysqrt{c}$, but I found out that this doesn't work with $sqrt{5+2sqrt{6}}$ which equals $sqrt{3}+sqrt{2}$. What is the general method to simplify these problems?(i.e. $sqrt{a-bsqrt{c}}=?$)







number-theory radicals nested-radicals






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited 4 hours ago







Max0815

















asked 18 hours ago









Max0815Max0815

69118




69118








  • 3




    $begingroup$
    "The basic method I learned is to set this equal to $sqrt{x-ysqrt{c}}$" and do what with it? "but I found out that this doesn't work with $sqrt{5+2sqrt{6}}$" why not? What was supposed to happen?
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    18 hours ago
















  • 3




    $begingroup$
    "The basic method I learned is to set this equal to $sqrt{x-ysqrt{c}}$" and do what with it? "but I found out that this doesn't work with $sqrt{5+2sqrt{6}}$" why not? What was supposed to happen?
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    18 hours ago










3




3




$begingroup$
"The basic method I learned is to set this equal to $sqrt{x-ysqrt{c}}$" and do what with it? "but I found out that this doesn't work with $sqrt{5+2sqrt{6}}$" why not? What was supposed to happen?
$endgroup$
– fleablood
18 hours ago






$begingroup$
"The basic method I learned is to set this equal to $sqrt{x-ysqrt{c}}$" and do what with it? "but I found out that this doesn't work with $sqrt{5+2sqrt{6}}$" why not? What was supposed to happen?
$endgroup$
– fleablood
18 hours ago












2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















11












$begingroup$

There are the following identities.
$$sqrt{a+sqrt{b}}=sqrt{frac{a+sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}+sqrt{frac{a-sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}$$ and
$$sqrt{a-sqrt{b}}=sqrt{frac{a+sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}-sqrt{frac{a-sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}},$$
where all numbers under radicals they are non-negatives.



For example:
$$sqrt{5+2sqrt6}=sqrt{5+sqrt{24}}=sqrt{frac{5+sqrt{5^2-24}}{2}}+sqrt{frac{5-sqrt{5^2-24}}{2}}=sqrt3+sqrt2.$$
This is interesting, when $a$ and $b$ are rationals and $a^2-b$ is a square of a rational number.



The first identity is true because
$$left(sqrt{frac{a+sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}+sqrt{frac{a-sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}right)^2=$$
$$=frac{a+sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}+frac{a-sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}+2sqrt{frac{a+sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}cdotsqrt{frac{a-sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}=a+sqrt{b}.$$






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    This is interesting. I had never seen the identities you begin with.
    $endgroup$
    – Lubin
    17 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    @Lubin same with me too.
    $endgroup$
    – Max0815
    17 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    We can prove it. It's not hard.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Rozenberg
    17 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    How would you prove the first one @MichaelRozenberg? I can get the second on I think because it is conjugate of first, which should be easy.
    $endgroup$
    – Max0815
    16 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    To get some more intuition how these identities were derived in the first place. To that end, you've got to view the polynomial $x^4-2ax^2+(a^2-b)$ for which $sqrt{a+sqrt{b}}$ is a zero, as the product of $x^2pm c x + sqrt{a^2-b}$. It turns out $c$ needs to satisfy the equation $-2a = -c^2 + 2sqrt{a^2-b}$ and you just need to find the roots of this simple polynomial, $x^2- c x + sqrt{a^2-b}$ :)
    $endgroup$
    – Stan Tendijck
    9 hours ago





















4












$begingroup$

One way of approaching this problem is by viewing it as a zero of an equation. Let me explain. Let's say you want to compute $sqrt{x_0}$ where $x_0$ is a zero of some quadratic polynomial of the form $x^2-bx+1$. Now, one way to go is to note that if you have a zero of $x^2+ax+1$, then it will still be a zero if you multiply it with $x^2-ax+1$ which equals
$$x^4 + (2-a^2) x^2 + 1$$
Now the idea is to work backwards. So, in particular, if you can find you can find an $a$ such that $b=a^2-2$, then you can conclude that the square root of you polynomial is equal to one of the zeros of the polynomials $x^2-ax+1$ or $x^2+ax+1$. It is usually not too hard to find out which. If you found out which, you can rewrite your square root accordingly to the desired form :)



To conclude, one of the tricks is to find the right form of your polynomials such that you end up with something useful. This method will however require some puzzling.



Edit applying this method to your example, you will find that the polynomial you need (thus the one for which you want to calculate the square root of a zero) is $x^2-10x+1$. Then according to the above method (which you derive on the go), your $a=sqrt{12}$ and then you just need to solve $x^2-ax+1=0$ which is the only possibility since for the other one, filling in a positive number will yield a positive number. Solving this equation by completing the square is not too difficult. It turns out that the zeros lie at around 0.5 and 3. Hence, it is not difficult to note you need the larger zero which turns out to be exactly gicen by $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}$. Does that make sense?






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Yes. thanx!!!!!
    $endgroup$
    – Max0815
    17 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    If your polynomial ends with $+b$ instead of $1$, I think you need to work with $+sqrt{b}$ in the polynomials with the $a$s. (Did not check this but I am sure this will work).
    $endgroup$
    – Stan Tendijck
    17 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    yes I believe so too.
    $endgroup$
    – Max0815
    17 hours ago











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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









11












$begingroup$

There are the following identities.
$$sqrt{a+sqrt{b}}=sqrt{frac{a+sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}+sqrt{frac{a-sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}$$ and
$$sqrt{a-sqrt{b}}=sqrt{frac{a+sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}-sqrt{frac{a-sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}},$$
where all numbers under radicals they are non-negatives.



For example:
$$sqrt{5+2sqrt6}=sqrt{5+sqrt{24}}=sqrt{frac{5+sqrt{5^2-24}}{2}}+sqrt{frac{5-sqrt{5^2-24}}{2}}=sqrt3+sqrt2.$$
This is interesting, when $a$ and $b$ are rationals and $a^2-b$ is a square of a rational number.



The first identity is true because
$$left(sqrt{frac{a+sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}+sqrt{frac{a-sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}right)^2=$$
$$=frac{a+sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}+frac{a-sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}+2sqrt{frac{a+sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}cdotsqrt{frac{a-sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}=a+sqrt{b}.$$






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    This is interesting. I had never seen the identities you begin with.
    $endgroup$
    – Lubin
    17 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    @Lubin same with me too.
    $endgroup$
    – Max0815
    17 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    We can prove it. It's not hard.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Rozenberg
    17 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    How would you prove the first one @MichaelRozenberg? I can get the second on I think because it is conjugate of first, which should be easy.
    $endgroup$
    – Max0815
    16 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    To get some more intuition how these identities were derived in the first place. To that end, you've got to view the polynomial $x^4-2ax^2+(a^2-b)$ for which $sqrt{a+sqrt{b}}$ is a zero, as the product of $x^2pm c x + sqrt{a^2-b}$. It turns out $c$ needs to satisfy the equation $-2a = -c^2 + 2sqrt{a^2-b}$ and you just need to find the roots of this simple polynomial, $x^2- c x + sqrt{a^2-b}$ :)
    $endgroup$
    – Stan Tendijck
    9 hours ago


















11












$begingroup$

There are the following identities.
$$sqrt{a+sqrt{b}}=sqrt{frac{a+sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}+sqrt{frac{a-sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}$$ and
$$sqrt{a-sqrt{b}}=sqrt{frac{a+sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}-sqrt{frac{a-sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}},$$
where all numbers under radicals they are non-negatives.



For example:
$$sqrt{5+2sqrt6}=sqrt{5+sqrt{24}}=sqrt{frac{5+sqrt{5^2-24}}{2}}+sqrt{frac{5-sqrt{5^2-24}}{2}}=sqrt3+sqrt2.$$
This is interesting, when $a$ and $b$ are rationals and $a^2-b$ is a square of a rational number.



The first identity is true because
$$left(sqrt{frac{a+sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}+sqrt{frac{a-sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}right)^2=$$
$$=frac{a+sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}+frac{a-sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}+2sqrt{frac{a+sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}cdotsqrt{frac{a-sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}=a+sqrt{b}.$$






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    This is interesting. I had never seen the identities you begin with.
    $endgroup$
    – Lubin
    17 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    @Lubin same with me too.
    $endgroup$
    – Max0815
    17 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    We can prove it. It's not hard.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Rozenberg
    17 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    How would you prove the first one @MichaelRozenberg? I can get the second on I think because it is conjugate of first, which should be easy.
    $endgroup$
    – Max0815
    16 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    To get some more intuition how these identities were derived in the first place. To that end, you've got to view the polynomial $x^4-2ax^2+(a^2-b)$ for which $sqrt{a+sqrt{b}}$ is a zero, as the product of $x^2pm c x + sqrt{a^2-b}$. It turns out $c$ needs to satisfy the equation $-2a = -c^2 + 2sqrt{a^2-b}$ and you just need to find the roots of this simple polynomial, $x^2- c x + sqrt{a^2-b}$ :)
    $endgroup$
    – Stan Tendijck
    9 hours ago
















11












11








11





$begingroup$

There are the following identities.
$$sqrt{a+sqrt{b}}=sqrt{frac{a+sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}+sqrt{frac{a-sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}$$ and
$$sqrt{a-sqrt{b}}=sqrt{frac{a+sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}-sqrt{frac{a-sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}},$$
where all numbers under radicals they are non-negatives.



For example:
$$sqrt{5+2sqrt6}=sqrt{5+sqrt{24}}=sqrt{frac{5+sqrt{5^2-24}}{2}}+sqrt{frac{5-sqrt{5^2-24}}{2}}=sqrt3+sqrt2.$$
This is interesting, when $a$ and $b$ are rationals and $a^2-b$ is a square of a rational number.



The first identity is true because
$$left(sqrt{frac{a+sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}+sqrt{frac{a-sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}right)^2=$$
$$=frac{a+sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}+frac{a-sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}+2sqrt{frac{a+sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}cdotsqrt{frac{a-sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}=a+sqrt{b}.$$






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



There are the following identities.
$$sqrt{a+sqrt{b}}=sqrt{frac{a+sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}+sqrt{frac{a-sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}$$ and
$$sqrt{a-sqrt{b}}=sqrt{frac{a+sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}-sqrt{frac{a-sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}},$$
where all numbers under radicals they are non-negatives.



For example:
$$sqrt{5+2sqrt6}=sqrt{5+sqrt{24}}=sqrt{frac{5+sqrt{5^2-24}}{2}}+sqrt{frac{5-sqrt{5^2-24}}{2}}=sqrt3+sqrt2.$$
This is interesting, when $a$ and $b$ are rationals and $a^2-b$ is a square of a rational number.



The first identity is true because
$$left(sqrt{frac{a+sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}+sqrt{frac{a-sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}right)^2=$$
$$=frac{a+sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}+frac{a-sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}+2sqrt{frac{a+sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}cdotsqrt{frac{a-sqrt{a^2-b}}{2}}=a+sqrt{b}.$$







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited 16 hours ago

























answered 18 hours ago









Michael RozenbergMichael Rozenberg

104k1892197




104k1892197








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    This is interesting. I had never seen the identities you begin with.
    $endgroup$
    – Lubin
    17 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    @Lubin same with me too.
    $endgroup$
    – Max0815
    17 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    We can prove it. It's not hard.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Rozenberg
    17 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    How would you prove the first one @MichaelRozenberg? I can get the second on I think because it is conjugate of first, which should be easy.
    $endgroup$
    – Max0815
    16 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    To get some more intuition how these identities were derived in the first place. To that end, you've got to view the polynomial $x^4-2ax^2+(a^2-b)$ for which $sqrt{a+sqrt{b}}$ is a zero, as the product of $x^2pm c x + sqrt{a^2-b}$. It turns out $c$ needs to satisfy the equation $-2a = -c^2 + 2sqrt{a^2-b}$ and you just need to find the roots of this simple polynomial, $x^2- c x + sqrt{a^2-b}$ :)
    $endgroup$
    – Stan Tendijck
    9 hours ago
















  • 1




    $begingroup$
    This is interesting. I had never seen the identities you begin with.
    $endgroup$
    – Lubin
    17 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    @Lubin same with me too.
    $endgroup$
    – Max0815
    17 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    We can prove it. It's not hard.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Rozenberg
    17 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    How would you prove the first one @MichaelRozenberg? I can get the second on I think because it is conjugate of first, which should be easy.
    $endgroup$
    – Max0815
    16 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    To get some more intuition how these identities were derived in the first place. To that end, you've got to view the polynomial $x^4-2ax^2+(a^2-b)$ for which $sqrt{a+sqrt{b}}$ is a zero, as the product of $x^2pm c x + sqrt{a^2-b}$. It turns out $c$ needs to satisfy the equation $-2a = -c^2 + 2sqrt{a^2-b}$ and you just need to find the roots of this simple polynomial, $x^2- c x + sqrt{a^2-b}$ :)
    $endgroup$
    – Stan Tendijck
    9 hours ago










1




1




$begingroup$
This is interesting. I had never seen the identities you begin with.
$endgroup$
– Lubin
17 hours ago






$begingroup$
This is interesting. I had never seen the identities you begin with.
$endgroup$
– Lubin
17 hours ago














$begingroup$
@Lubin same with me too.
$endgroup$
– Max0815
17 hours ago




$begingroup$
@Lubin same with me too.
$endgroup$
– Max0815
17 hours ago












$begingroup$
We can prove it. It's not hard.
$endgroup$
– Michael Rozenberg
17 hours ago




$begingroup$
We can prove it. It's not hard.
$endgroup$
– Michael Rozenberg
17 hours ago












$begingroup$
How would you prove the first one @MichaelRozenberg? I can get the second on I think because it is conjugate of first, which should be easy.
$endgroup$
– Max0815
16 hours ago




$begingroup$
How would you prove the first one @MichaelRozenberg? I can get the second on I think because it is conjugate of first, which should be easy.
$endgroup$
– Max0815
16 hours ago




2




2




$begingroup$
To get some more intuition how these identities were derived in the first place. To that end, you've got to view the polynomial $x^4-2ax^2+(a^2-b)$ for which $sqrt{a+sqrt{b}}$ is a zero, as the product of $x^2pm c x + sqrt{a^2-b}$. It turns out $c$ needs to satisfy the equation $-2a = -c^2 + 2sqrt{a^2-b}$ and you just need to find the roots of this simple polynomial, $x^2- c x + sqrt{a^2-b}$ :)
$endgroup$
– Stan Tendijck
9 hours ago






$begingroup$
To get some more intuition how these identities were derived in the first place. To that end, you've got to view the polynomial $x^4-2ax^2+(a^2-b)$ for which $sqrt{a+sqrt{b}}$ is a zero, as the product of $x^2pm c x + sqrt{a^2-b}$. It turns out $c$ needs to satisfy the equation $-2a = -c^2 + 2sqrt{a^2-b}$ and you just need to find the roots of this simple polynomial, $x^2- c x + sqrt{a^2-b}$ :)
$endgroup$
– Stan Tendijck
9 hours ago













4












$begingroup$

One way of approaching this problem is by viewing it as a zero of an equation. Let me explain. Let's say you want to compute $sqrt{x_0}$ where $x_0$ is a zero of some quadratic polynomial of the form $x^2-bx+1$. Now, one way to go is to note that if you have a zero of $x^2+ax+1$, then it will still be a zero if you multiply it with $x^2-ax+1$ which equals
$$x^4 + (2-a^2) x^2 + 1$$
Now the idea is to work backwards. So, in particular, if you can find you can find an $a$ such that $b=a^2-2$, then you can conclude that the square root of you polynomial is equal to one of the zeros of the polynomials $x^2-ax+1$ or $x^2+ax+1$. It is usually not too hard to find out which. If you found out which, you can rewrite your square root accordingly to the desired form :)



To conclude, one of the tricks is to find the right form of your polynomials such that you end up with something useful. This method will however require some puzzling.



Edit applying this method to your example, you will find that the polynomial you need (thus the one for which you want to calculate the square root of a zero) is $x^2-10x+1$. Then according to the above method (which you derive on the go), your $a=sqrt{12}$ and then you just need to solve $x^2-ax+1=0$ which is the only possibility since for the other one, filling in a positive number will yield a positive number. Solving this equation by completing the square is not too difficult. It turns out that the zeros lie at around 0.5 and 3. Hence, it is not difficult to note you need the larger zero which turns out to be exactly gicen by $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}$. Does that make sense?






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Yes. thanx!!!!!
    $endgroup$
    – Max0815
    17 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    If your polynomial ends with $+b$ instead of $1$, I think you need to work with $+sqrt{b}$ in the polynomials with the $a$s. (Did not check this but I am sure this will work).
    $endgroup$
    – Stan Tendijck
    17 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    yes I believe so too.
    $endgroup$
    – Max0815
    17 hours ago
















4












$begingroup$

One way of approaching this problem is by viewing it as a zero of an equation. Let me explain. Let's say you want to compute $sqrt{x_0}$ where $x_0$ is a zero of some quadratic polynomial of the form $x^2-bx+1$. Now, one way to go is to note that if you have a zero of $x^2+ax+1$, then it will still be a zero if you multiply it with $x^2-ax+1$ which equals
$$x^4 + (2-a^2) x^2 + 1$$
Now the idea is to work backwards. So, in particular, if you can find you can find an $a$ such that $b=a^2-2$, then you can conclude that the square root of you polynomial is equal to one of the zeros of the polynomials $x^2-ax+1$ or $x^2+ax+1$. It is usually not too hard to find out which. If you found out which, you can rewrite your square root accordingly to the desired form :)



To conclude, one of the tricks is to find the right form of your polynomials such that you end up with something useful. This method will however require some puzzling.



Edit applying this method to your example, you will find that the polynomial you need (thus the one for which you want to calculate the square root of a zero) is $x^2-10x+1$. Then according to the above method (which you derive on the go), your $a=sqrt{12}$ and then you just need to solve $x^2-ax+1=0$ which is the only possibility since for the other one, filling in a positive number will yield a positive number. Solving this equation by completing the square is not too difficult. It turns out that the zeros lie at around 0.5 and 3. Hence, it is not difficult to note you need the larger zero which turns out to be exactly gicen by $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}$. Does that make sense?






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Yes. thanx!!!!!
    $endgroup$
    – Max0815
    17 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    If your polynomial ends with $+b$ instead of $1$, I think you need to work with $+sqrt{b}$ in the polynomials with the $a$s. (Did not check this but I am sure this will work).
    $endgroup$
    – Stan Tendijck
    17 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    yes I believe so too.
    $endgroup$
    – Max0815
    17 hours ago














4












4








4





$begingroup$

One way of approaching this problem is by viewing it as a zero of an equation. Let me explain. Let's say you want to compute $sqrt{x_0}$ where $x_0$ is a zero of some quadratic polynomial of the form $x^2-bx+1$. Now, one way to go is to note that if you have a zero of $x^2+ax+1$, then it will still be a zero if you multiply it with $x^2-ax+1$ which equals
$$x^4 + (2-a^2) x^2 + 1$$
Now the idea is to work backwards. So, in particular, if you can find you can find an $a$ such that $b=a^2-2$, then you can conclude that the square root of you polynomial is equal to one of the zeros of the polynomials $x^2-ax+1$ or $x^2+ax+1$. It is usually not too hard to find out which. If you found out which, you can rewrite your square root accordingly to the desired form :)



To conclude, one of the tricks is to find the right form of your polynomials such that you end up with something useful. This method will however require some puzzling.



Edit applying this method to your example, you will find that the polynomial you need (thus the one for which you want to calculate the square root of a zero) is $x^2-10x+1$. Then according to the above method (which you derive on the go), your $a=sqrt{12}$ and then you just need to solve $x^2-ax+1=0$ which is the only possibility since for the other one, filling in a positive number will yield a positive number. Solving this equation by completing the square is not too difficult. It turns out that the zeros lie at around 0.5 and 3. Hence, it is not difficult to note you need the larger zero which turns out to be exactly gicen by $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}$. Does that make sense?






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



One way of approaching this problem is by viewing it as a zero of an equation. Let me explain. Let's say you want to compute $sqrt{x_0}$ where $x_0$ is a zero of some quadratic polynomial of the form $x^2-bx+1$. Now, one way to go is to note that if you have a zero of $x^2+ax+1$, then it will still be a zero if you multiply it with $x^2-ax+1$ which equals
$$x^4 + (2-a^2) x^2 + 1$$
Now the idea is to work backwards. So, in particular, if you can find you can find an $a$ such that $b=a^2-2$, then you can conclude that the square root of you polynomial is equal to one of the zeros of the polynomials $x^2-ax+1$ or $x^2+ax+1$. It is usually not too hard to find out which. If you found out which, you can rewrite your square root accordingly to the desired form :)



To conclude, one of the tricks is to find the right form of your polynomials such that you end up with something useful. This method will however require some puzzling.



Edit applying this method to your example, you will find that the polynomial you need (thus the one for which you want to calculate the square root of a zero) is $x^2-10x+1$. Then according to the above method (which you derive on the go), your $a=sqrt{12}$ and then you just need to solve $x^2-ax+1=0$ which is the only possibility since for the other one, filling in a positive number will yield a positive number. Solving this equation by completing the square is not too difficult. It turns out that the zeros lie at around 0.5 and 3. Hence, it is not difficult to note you need the larger zero which turns out to be exactly gicen by $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}$. Does that make sense?







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited 17 hours ago

























answered 18 hours ago









Stan TendijckStan Tendijck

1,861311




1,861311












  • $begingroup$
    Yes. thanx!!!!!
    $endgroup$
    – Max0815
    17 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    If your polynomial ends with $+b$ instead of $1$, I think you need to work with $+sqrt{b}$ in the polynomials with the $a$s. (Did not check this but I am sure this will work).
    $endgroup$
    – Stan Tendijck
    17 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    yes I believe so too.
    $endgroup$
    – Max0815
    17 hours ago


















  • $begingroup$
    Yes. thanx!!!!!
    $endgroup$
    – Max0815
    17 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    If your polynomial ends with $+b$ instead of $1$, I think you need to work with $+sqrt{b}$ in the polynomials with the $a$s. (Did not check this but I am sure this will work).
    $endgroup$
    – Stan Tendijck
    17 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    yes I believe so too.
    $endgroup$
    – Max0815
    17 hours ago
















$begingroup$
Yes. thanx!!!!!
$endgroup$
– Max0815
17 hours ago




$begingroup$
Yes. thanx!!!!!
$endgroup$
– Max0815
17 hours ago












$begingroup$
If your polynomial ends with $+b$ instead of $1$, I think you need to work with $+sqrt{b}$ in the polynomials with the $a$s. (Did not check this but I am sure this will work).
$endgroup$
– Stan Tendijck
17 hours ago






$begingroup$
If your polynomial ends with $+b$ instead of $1$, I think you need to work with $+sqrt{b}$ in the polynomials with the $a$s. (Did not check this but I am sure this will work).
$endgroup$
– Stan Tendijck
17 hours ago














$begingroup$
yes I believe so too.
$endgroup$
– Max0815
17 hours ago




$begingroup$
yes I believe so too.
$endgroup$
– Max0815
17 hours ago


















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