Recommendation letter by significant other if you worked with them professionally?
My significant other (SO) and I are in five years of relationship. We met working in a lab and she already earned her PhD at that time. I was a graduate student. She was my supervisor after my adviser and she oversaw my project and helped me the process throughout. We now have two publications together. We worked professionally together for almost three years. She knows my potential both personally and professionally.
I am wondering if it is okay to use a letter of recommendation from her to apply for a PhD program.
recommendation-letter conflict-of-interest
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My significant other (SO) and I are in five years of relationship. We met working in a lab and she already earned her PhD at that time. I was a graduate student. She was my supervisor after my adviser and she oversaw my project and helped me the process throughout. We now have two publications together. We worked professionally together for almost three years. She knows my potential both personally and professionally.
I am wondering if it is okay to use a letter of recommendation from her to apply for a PhD program.
recommendation-letter conflict-of-interest
New contributor
RyanR88 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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10
Did your SO violate any university policies by having a romantic relationship with someone she supervised? At most universities that is considered serious misconduct.
– Anonymous Physicist
14 hours ago
8
Surely there are better alternatives?
– Thomas
14 hours ago
4
Related, if not duplicate: Should I get a letter of recommendation from my mother, who is a famous researcher in my field?
– Wrzlprmft♦
13 hours ago
3
@AnonymousPhysicist At most universities? In a worldwide perspective, really? (I hope not anyway)
– Massimo Ortolano
10 hours ago
I said "supervisor" because my project was very similar to her work at that time and I asked her questions when my adviser was not around. It wasn't like anything official status she was assigned to me. It was a small department and small lab. We have a very healthy relationship with the rest of the group and everyone knows about us including PI and chair of the department. We maintained a very professional relationship at work and nobody mentioned or joked about us during work hours. We tried to keep it private in the beginning but, it is not possible to hide when it is that long.
– RyanR88
3 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
My significant other (SO) and I are in five years of relationship. We met working in a lab and she already earned her PhD at that time. I was a graduate student. She was my supervisor after my adviser and she oversaw my project and helped me the process throughout. We now have two publications together. We worked professionally together for almost three years. She knows my potential both personally and professionally.
I am wondering if it is okay to use a letter of recommendation from her to apply for a PhD program.
recommendation-letter conflict-of-interest
New contributor
RyanR88 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
My significant other (SO) and I are in five years of relationship. We met working in a lab and she already earned her PhD at that time. I was a graduate student. She was my supervisor after my adviser and she oversaw my project and helped me the process throughout. We now have two publications together. We worked professionally together for almost three years. She knows my potential both personally and professionally.
I am wondering if it is okay to use a letter of recommendation from her to apply for a PhD program.
recommendation-letter conflict-of-interest
recommendation-letter conflict-of-interest
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RyanR88 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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New contributor
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edited 13 hours ago
Wrzlprmft♦
33.6k9107183
33.6k9107183
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asked 15 hours ago
RyanR88RyanR88
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594
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10
Did your SO violate any university policies by having a romantic relationship with someone she supervised? At most universities that is considered serious misconduct.
– Anonymous Physicist
14 hours ago
8
Surely there are better alternatives?
– Thomas
14 hours ago
4
Related, if not duplicate: Should I get a letter of recommendation from my mother, who is a famous researcher in my field?
– Wrzlprmft♦
13 hours ago
3
@AnonymousPhysicist At most universities? In a worldwide perspective, really? (I hope not anyway)
– Massimo Ortolano
10 hours ago
I said "supervisor" because my project was very similar to her work at that time and I asked her questions when my adviser was not around. It wasn't like anything official status she was assigned to me. It was a small department and small lab. We have a very healthy relationship with the rest of the group and everyone knows about us including PI and chair of the department. We maintained a very professional relationship at work and nobody mentioned or joked about us during work hours. We tried to keep it private in the beginning but, it is not possible to hide when it is that long.
– RyanR88
3 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
10
Did your SO violate any university policies by having a romantic relationship with someone she supervised? At most universities that is considered serious misconduct.
– Anonymous Physicist
14 hours ago
8
Surely there are better alternatives?
– Thomas
14 hours ago
4
Related, if not duplicate: Should I get a letter of recommendation from my mother, who is a famous researcher in my field?
– Wrzlprmft♦
13 hours ago
3
@AnonymousPhysicist At most universities? In a worldwide perspective, really? (I hope not anyway)
– Massimo Ortolano
10 hours ago
I said "supervisor" because my project was very similar to her work at that time and I asked her questions when my adviser was not around. It wasn't like anything official status she was assigned to me. It was a small department and small lab. We have a very healthy relationship with the rest of the group and everyone knows about us including PI and chair of the department. We maintained a very professional relationship at work and nobody mentioned or joked about us during work hours. We tried to keep it private in the beginning but, it is not possible to hide when it is that long.
– RyanR88
3 hours ago
10
10
Did your SO violate any university policies by having a romantic relationship with someone she supervised? At most universities that is considered serious misconduct.
– Anonymous Physicist
14 hours ago
Did your SO violate any university policies by having a romantic relationship with someone she supervised? At most universities that is considered serious misconduct.
– Anonymous Physicist
14 hours ago
8
8
Surely there are better alternatives?
– Thomas
14 hours ago
Surely there are better alternatives?
– Thomas
14 hours ago
4
4
Related, if not duplicate: Should I get a letter of recommendation from my mother, who is a famous researcher in my field?
– Wrzlprmft♦
13 hours ago
Related, if not duplicate: Should I get a letter of recommendation from my mother, who is a famous researcher in my field?
– Wrzlprmft♦
13 hours ago
3
3
@AnonymousPhysicist At most universities? In a worldwide perspective, really? (I hope not anyway)
– Massimo Ortolano
10 hours ago
@AnonymousPhysicist At most universities? In a worldwide perspective, really? (I hope not anyway)
– Massimo Ortolano
10 hours ago
I said "supervisor" because my project was very similar to her work at that time and I asked her questions when my adviser was not around. It wasn't like anything official status she was assigned to me. It was a small department and small lab. We have a very healthy relationship with the rest of the group and everyone knows about us including PI and chair of the department. We maintained a very professional relationship at work and nobody mentioned or joked about us during work hours. We tried to keep it private in the beginning but, it is not possible to hide when it is that long.
– RyanR88
3 hours ago
I said "supervisor" because my project was very similar to her work at that time and I asked her questions when my adviser was not around. It wasn't like anything official status she was assigned to me. It was a small department and small lab. We have a very healthy relationship with the rest of the group and everyone knows about us including PI and chair of the department. We maintained a very professional relationship at work and nobody mentioned or joked about us during work hours. We tried to keep it private in the beginning but, it is not possible to hide when it is that long.
– RyanR88
3 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
No. If she discloses your relationship in the letter, the reviewer will likely disregard the letter completely, and may question your judgment for having asked her for a letter. If she does not disclose your relationship in the letter, that is a serious enough omission that it could have consequences for you later on (I can't quite tell where you are in your career, but the more senior you are, the more severe these consequences could be).
I agree. It is a risk for both of our career future and it might not be fair for other applicants. Thanks for bringing up that point!
– RyanR88
4 hours ago
1
There are countless couples out there in academia. Often you see Jones and Jones, etc. and I know of couples who write letters for each other and disclose the nature of their relationship. I'm not sure a flat out NO is the answer here. I wouldn't do it if other options were available, but if my main colleague is my wife, I suspect reviewers might want to hear her take on my research.
– Behacad
1 hour ago
2
I'm gonna stick by my "NO." I don't disagree that such a letter might contain useful information, esp. when one's primary collaborator is one's spouse (and for sure there is no ethical issue if the relationship is disclosed). But I think that's outweighed by the perceived or actual conflict of interest, and the perception of poor judgment in even including a letter from one's SO. But I think your perspective is valuable -- I was going to suggest you post a separate answer, but I see you've already done that.
– cag51
1 hour ago
add a comment |
I'm going to come in with a no. (See edit remark at the end).
I originally said cautious yes. You can use a letter from your SO, with some caveats, as follows:
It should be an extra letter. Like, if they asked for at least 3, your SO should write the 4th.
If your SO is a postdoc at this time, the letter is already not worth that much, so after discounting for SO conflict of interest it might not be worth it.
The answer from cag51 is correct that your SO must disclose that you are in a relationship.
Given the nature of your relationship, your SO should make a huge effort to write a balanced letter, including your weaknesses / where you have room for improvement. If I read a letter from an SO that seemed honest, I might weight it even higher than another because the SO knows the applicant better than other letter writers.
So, after taking all that into account, should you still use your SO as a reference? Probably not. But as someone involved in admissions into PhD programs, I understand that in lab relationships happen, and I would be interested to hear what an SO had to say.
edit: It seems I'm more open minded about these things than other people in academia. There is a risk that having your SO send a letter will offend someone on the admissions committee, or be taken as a sign of bad judgement on your part. So the safe thing to do is to avoid using an SO (or any immediate relative) as a letter writer.
Thank you so much for the thoughtful response. Top programs I would like to apply might not even allow 4th recommender because that would be a waste of their time reading an extra. It seems like it is pretty clear I should not use her letter or it won't even be worth it.
– RyanR88
4 hours ago
add a comment |
Look at things from another perspective:
Suppose, you use the letter with full disclosure of your relationship.
Suppose, you get admitted to the program. Suppose, somebody who didn’t get admitted finds out that you got admitted based on a recommendation letter from your SO¹.
Suppose that somebody causes a ruckus about this, be it legally, internally, or publicly.
Now put yourself in the position of the decision maker who is handling your application and is aware of the possibility of the above scenario.
The decision maker knows that it might be easily their head that rolls if it comes to the above situation.
Even if they have not read the recommendation letter, they cannot provide evidence that they didn’t².
It’s far safer for the decision maker to just reject your application.
Using a recommendation letter from an SO gives them an easy argument for this.
In case there is no disclosure, this might be an career ender for you and your SO due to not disclosing a blatant conflict of interest.
I can even imagine that you may even face criminal charges (e.g., if there are rules that compels you to declare any conflicts of interest, etc.).
¹ For example because your relationship ends badly, and your SO wants to take revenge.
² In exceptional circumstances such as pre-vetted applications, they may, but that’s nothing you can predict.
2
Criminal charges, for applying to a PhD program with a LoR from your adviser who also happens to be a romantic partner. That sounds completely ridiculous. Which crime in which legal system should that be? Also, a missing LoR from the adviser must be explained anyway, it is a huge red flag if it is missing.
– Vladimir F
9 hours ago
3
@VladimirF: In many situations in academia, you are required to sign a statement that essentially says that you adhered to basic academic standards, be it committing no plagiarism, declaring all conflicts of interests, or whatever applies to the situation. One of the reasons for this is that if you fail to do this, the university has better legal options against such as charging you for fraud or similar.
– Wrzlprmft♦
8 hours ago
1
@VladimirF: Also, a missing LoR from the adviser must be explained anyway, it is a huge red flag if it is missing. – Well, she is not the chief advisor, or whatever you want to call it (see the question); otherwise the situation would clearly be problematic without going to letters of recommendation.
– Wrzlprmft♦
8 hours ago
It would be a situations that simply happens. I do know such a case and I have not heard of any big problems it should have caused. People simply do fall in love, they are people.
– Vladimir F
8 hours ago
1
@VladimirF: A romantic relationship between a (direct) supervisor and supervisee is a poses a serious problem due to conflicts of interest. In the vast majority of cases, the correct behaviour is to immediately end the supervisor–supervisee relationship if this happens.
– Wrzlprmft♦
7 hours ago
add a comment |
I'm going to say yes, but, there is a conflict here. If no one else has worked with you this much, then perhaps it is not the worst choice. If this loved one writes a letter they must disclose their relationship to you, and stick to facts, such as how many papers you've written, grants you've gotten, your punctuality and relationship with peers etc. and how you would fit well into the position. They should avoid generally complimenting you as a person as this is too open to interpretation perhaps.
An important fact that you do not seem to emphasize (unlike number of papers) is the romantic relationship. It should be mentioned explicitly right at the beginning.
– Andrés E. Caicedo
7 hours ago
2
I know of two different couples who publish together constantly and write grants together etc. and are heavy hitting researchers, and write letters for each other all the time. These are ethical and good people and they seem to make it work. Clearly there are issues with doing this, but perhaps it is not an impossibility.
– Behacad
1 hour ago
2
I say "disclose their relationship to you", is that not clear?
– Behacad
1 hour ago
add a comment |
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4 Answers
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4 Answers
4
active
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No. If she discloses your relationship in the letter, the reviewer will likely disregard the letter completely, and may question your judgment for having asked her for a letter. If she does not disclose your relationship in the letter, that is a serious enough omission that it could have consequences for you later on (I can't quite tell where you are in your career, but the more senior you are, the more severe these consequences could be).
I agree. It is a risk for both of our career future and it might not be fair for other applicants. Thanks for bringing up that point!
– RyanR88
4 hours ago
1
There are countless couples out there in academia. Often you see Jones and Jones, etc. and I know of couples who write letters for each other and disclose the nature of their relationship. I'm not sure a flat out NO is the answer here. I wouldn't do it if other options were available, but if my main colleague is my wife, I suspect reviewers might want to hear her take on my research.
– Behacad
1 hour ago
2
I'm gonna stick by my "NO." I don't disagree that such a letter might contain useful information, esp. when one's primary collaborator is one's spouse (and for sure there is no ethical issue if the relationship is disclosed). But I think that's outweighed by the perceived or actual conflict of interest, and the perception of poor judgment in even including a letter from one's SO. But I think your perspective is valuable -- I was going to suggest you post a separate answer, but I see you've already done that.
– cag51
1 hour ago
add a comment |
No. If she discloses your relationship in the letter, the reviewer will likely disregard the letter completely, and may question your judgment for having asked her for a letter. If she does not disclose your relationship in the letter, that is a serious enough omission that it could have consequences for you later on (I can't quite tell where you are in your career, but the more senior you are, the more severe these consequences could be).
I agree. It is a risk for both of our career future and it might not be fair for other applicants. Thanks for bringing up that point!
– RyanR88
4 hours ago
1
There are countless couples out there in academia. Often you see Jones and Jones, etc. and I know of couples who write letters for each other and disclose the nature of their relationship. I'm not sure a flat out NO is the answer here. I wouldn't do it if other options were available, but if my main colleague is my wife, I suspect reviewers might want to hear her take on my research.
– Behacad
1 hour ago
2
I'm gonna stick by my "NO." I don't disagree that such a letter might contain useful information, esp. when one's primary collaborator is one's spouse (and for sure there is no ethical issue if the relationship is disclosed). But I think that's outweighed by the perceived or actual conflict of interest, and the perception of poor judgment in even including a letter from one's SO. But I think your perspective is valuable -- I was going to suggest you post a separate answer, but I see you've already done that.
– cag51
1 hour ago
add a comment |
No. If she discloses your relationship in the letter, the reviewer will likely disregard the letter completely, and may question your judgment for having asked her for a letter. If she does not disclose your relationship in the letter, that is a serious enough omission that it could have consequences for you later on (I can't quite tell where you are in your career, but the more senior you are, the more severe these consequences could be).
No. If she discloses your relationship in the letter, the reviewer will likely disregard the letter completely, and may question your judgment for having asked her for a letter. If she does not disclose your relationship in the letter, that is a serious enough omission that it could have consequences for you later on (I can't quite tell where you are in your career, but the more senior you are, the more severe these consequences could be).
answered 14 hours ago
cag51cag51
16.1k63360
16.1k63360
I agree. It is a risk for both of our career future and it might not be fair for other applicants. Thanks for bringing up that point!
– RyanR88
4 hours ago
1
There are countless couples out there in academia. Often you see Jones and Jones, etc. and I know of couples who write letters for each other and disclose the nature of their relationship. I'm not sure a flat out NO is the answer here. I wouldn't do it if other options were available, but if my main colleague is my wife, I suspect reviewers might want to hear her take on my research.
– Behacad
1 hour ago
2
I'm gonna stick by my "NO." I don't disagree that such a letter might contain useful information, esp. when one's primary collaborator is one's spouse (and for sure there is no ethical issue if the relationship is disclosed). But I think that's outweighed by the perceived or actual conflict of interest, and the perception of poor judgment in even including a letter from one's SO. But I think your perspective is valuable -- I was going to suggest you post a separate answer, but I see you've already done that.
– cag51
1 hour ago
add a comment |
I agree. It is a risk for both of our career future and it might not be fair for other applicants. Thanks for bringing up that point!
– RyanR88
4 hours ago
1
There are countless couples out there in academia. Often you see Jones and Jones, etc. and I know of couples who write letters for each other and disclose the nature of their relationship. I'm not sure a flat out NO is the answer here. I wouldn't do it if other options were available, but if my main colleague is my wife, I suspect reviewers might want to hear her take on my research.
– Behacad
1 hour ago
2
I'm gonna stick by my "NO." I don't disagree that such a letter might contain useful information, esp. when one's primary collaborator is one's spouse (and for sure there is no ethical issue if the relationship is disclosed). But I think that's outweighed by the perceived or actual conflict of interest, and the perception of poor judgment in even including a letter from one's SO. But I think your perspective is valuable -- I was going to suggest you post a separate answer, but I see you've already done that.
– cag51
1 hour ago
I agree. It is a risk for both of our career future and it might not be fair for other applicants. Thanks for bringing up that point!
– RyanR88
4 hours ago
I agree. It is a risk for both of our career future and it might not be fair for other applicants. Thanks for bringing up that point!
– RyanR88
4 hours ago
1
1
There are countless couples out there in academia. Often you see Jones and Jones, etc. and I know of couples who write letters for each other and disclose the nature of their relationship. I'm not sure a flat out NO is the answer here. I wouldn't do it if other options were available, but if my main colleague is my wife, I suspect reviewers might want to hear her take on my research.
– Behacad
1 hour ago
There are countless couples out there in academia. Often you see Jones and Jones, etc. and I know of couples who write letters for each other and disclose the nature of their relationship. I'm not sure a flat out NO is the answer here. I wouldn't do it if other options were available, but if my main colleague is my wife, I suspect reviewers might want to hear her take on my research.
– Behacad
1 hour ago
2
2
I'm gonna stick by my "NO." I don't disagree that such a letter might contain useful information, esp. when one's primary collaborator is one's spouse (and for sure there is no ethical issue if the relationship is disclosed). But I think that's outweighed by the perceived or actual conflict of interest, and the perception of poor judgment in even including a letter from one's SO. But I think your perspective is valuable -- I was going to suggest you post a separate answer, but I see you've already done that.
– cag51
1 hour ago
I'm gonna stick by my "NO." I don't disagree that such a letter might contain useful information, esp. when one's primary collaborator is one's spouse (and for sure there is no ethical issue if the relationship is disclosed). But I think that's outweighed by the perceived or actual conflict of interest, and the perception of poor judgment in even including a letter from one's SO. But I think your perspective is valuable -- I was going to suggest you post a separate answer, but I see you've already done that.
– cag51
1 hour ago
add a comment |
I'm going to come in with a no. (See edit remark at the end).
I originally said cautious yes. You can use a letter from your SO, with some caveats, as follows:
It should be an extra letter. Like, if they asked for at least 3, your SO should write the 4th.
If your SO is a postdoc at this time, the letter is already not worth that much, so after discounting for SO conflict of interest it might not be worth it.
The answer from cag51 is correct that your SO must disclose that you are in a relationship.
Given the nature of your relationship, your SO should make a huge effort to write a balanced letter, including your weaknesses / where you have room for improvement. If I read a letter from an SO that seemed honest, I might weight it even higher than another because the SO knows the applicant better than other letter writers.
So, after taking all that into account, should you still use your SO as a reference? Probably not. But as someone involved in admissions into PhD programs, I understand that in lab relationships happen, and I would be interested to hear what an SO had to say.
edit: It seems I'm more open minded about these things than other people in academia. There is a risk that having your SO send a letter will offend someone on the admissions committee, or be taken as a sign of bad judgement on your part. So the safe thing to do is to avoid using an SO (or any immediate relative) as a letter writer.
Thank you so much for the thoughtful response. Top programs I would like to apply might not even allow 4th recommender because that would be a waste of their time reading an extra. It seems like it is pretty clear I should not use her letter or it won't even be worth it.
– RyanR88
4 hours ago
add a comment |
I'm going to come in with a no. (See edit remark at the end).
I originally said cautious yes. You can use a letter from your SO, with some caveats, as follows:
It should be an extra letter. Like, if they asked for at least 3, your SO should write the 4th.
If your SO is a postdoc at this time, the letter is already not worth that much, so after discounting for SO conflict of interest it might not be worth it.
The answer from cag51 is correct that your SO must disclose that you are in a relationship.
Given the nature of your relationship, your SO should make a huge effort to write a balanced letter, including your weaknesses / where you have room for improvement. If I read a letter from an SO that seemed honest, I might weight it even higher than another because the SO knows the applicant better than other letter writers.
So, after taking all that into account, should you still use your SO as a reference? Probably not. But as someone involved in admissions into PhD programs, I understand that in lab relationships happen, and I would be interested to hear what an SO had to say.
edit: It seems I'm more open minded about these things than other people in academia. There is a risk that having your SO send a letter will offend someone on the admissions committee, or be taken as a sign of bad judgement on your part. So the safe thing to do is to avoid using an SO (or any immediate relative) as a letter writer.
Thank you so much for the thoughtful response. Top programs I would like to apply might not even allow 4th recommender because that would be a waste of their time reading an extra. It seems like it is pretty clear I should not use her letter or it won't even be worth it.
– RyanR88
4 hours ago
add a comment |
I'm going to come in with a no. (See edit remark at the end).
I originally said cautious yes. You can use a letter from your SO, with some caveats, as follows:
It should be an extra letter. Like, if they asked for at least 3, your SO should write the 4th.
If your SO is a postdoc at this time, the letter is already not worth that much, so after discounting for SO conflict of interest it might not be worth it.
The answer from cag51 is correct that your SO must disclose that you are in a relationship.
Given the nature of your relationship, your SO should make a huge effort to write a balanced letter, including your weaknesses / where you have room for improvement. If I read a letter from an SO that seemed honest, I might weight it even higher than another because the SO knows the applicant better than other letter writers.
So, after taking all that into account, should you still use your SO as a reference? Probably not. But as someone involved in admissions into PhD programs, I understand that in lab relationships happen, and I would be interested to hear what an SO had to say.
edit: It seems I'm more open minded about these things than other people in academia. There is a risk that having your SO send a letter will offend someone on the admissions committee, or be taken as a sign of bad judgement on your part. So the safe thing to do is to avoid using an SO (or any immediate relative) as a letter writer.
I'm going to come in with a no. (See edit remark at the end).
I originally said cautious yes. You can use a letter from your SO, with some caveats, as follows:
It should be an extra letter. Like, if they asked for at least 3, your SO should write the 4th.
If your SO is a postdoc at this time, the letter is already not worth that much, so after discounting for SO conflict of interest it might not be worth it.
The answer from cag51 is correct that your SO must disclose that you are in a relationship.
Given the nature of your relationship, your SO should make a huge effort to write a balanced letter, including your weaknesses / where you have room for improvement. If I read a letter from an SO that seemed honest, I might weight it even higher than another because the SO knows the applicant better than other letter writers.
So, after taking all that into account, should you still use your SO as a reference? Probably not. But as someone involved in admissions into PhD programs, I understand that in lab relationships happen, and I would be interested to hear what an SO had to say.
edit: It seems I'm more open minded about these things than other people in academia. There is a risk that having your SO send a letter will offend someone on the admissions committee, or be taken as a sign of bad judgement on your part. So the safe thing to do is to avoid using an SO (or any immediate relative) as a letter writer.
edited 11 hours ago
answered 13 hours ago
jerlichjerlich
39916
39916
Thank you so much for the thoughtful response. Top programs I would like to apply might not even allow 4th recommender because that would be a waste of their time reading an extra. It seems like it is pretty clear I should not use her letter or it won't even be worth it.
– RyanR88
4 hours ago
add a comment |
Thank you so much for the thoughtful response. Top programs I would like to apply might not even allow 4th recommender because that would be a waste of their time reading an extra. It seems like it is pretty clear I should not use her letter or it won't even be worth it.
– RyanR88
4 hours ago
Thank you so much for the thoughtful response. Top programs I would like to apply might not even allow 4th recommender because that would be a waste of their time reading an extra. It seems like it is pretty clear I should not use her letter or it won't even be worth it.
– RyanR88
4 hours ago
Thank you so much for the thoughtful response. Top programs I would like to apply might not even allow 4th recommender because that would be a waste of their time reading an extra. It seems like it is pretty clear I should not use her letter or it won't even be worth it.
– RyanR88
4 hours ago
add a comment |
Look at things from another perspective:
Suppose, you use the letter with full disclosure of your relationship.
Suppose, you get admitted to the program. Suppose, somebody who didn’t get admitted finds out that you got admitted based on a recommendation letter from your SO¹.
Suppose that somebody causes a ruckus about this, be it legally, internally, or publicly.
Now put yourself in the position of the decision maker who is handling your application and is aware of the possibility of the above scenario.
The decision maker knows that it might be easily their head that rolls if it comes to the above situation.
Even if they have not read the recommendation letter, they cannot provide evidence that they didn’t².
It’s far safer for the decision maker to just reject your application.
Using a recommendation letter from an SO gives them an easy argument for this.
In case there is no disclosure, this might be an career ender for you and your SO due to not disclosing a blatant conflict of interest.
I can even imagine that you may even face criminal charges (e.g., if there are rules that compels you to declare any conflicts of interest, etc.).
¹ For example because your relationship ends badly, and your SO wants to take revenge.
² In exceptional circumstances such as pre-vetted applications, they may, but that’s nothing you can predict.
2
Criminal charges, for applying to a PhD program with a LoR from your adviser who also happens to be a romantic partner. That sounds completely ridiculous. Which crime in which legal system should that be? Also, a missing LoR from the adviser must be explained anyway, it is a huge red flag if it is missing.
– Vladimir F
9 hours ago
3
@VladimirF: In many situations in academia, you are required to sign a statement that essentially says that you adhered to basic academic standards, be it committing no plagiarism, declaring all conflicts of interests, or whatever applies to the situation. One of the reasons for this is that if you fail to do this, the university has better legal options against such as charging you for fraud or similar.
– Wrzlprmft♦
8 hours ago
1
@VladimirF: Also, a missing LoR from the adviser must be explained anyway, it is a huge red flag if it is missing. – Well, she is not the chief advisor, or whatever you want to call it (see the question); otherwise the situation would clearly be problematic without going to letters of recommendation.
– Wrzlprmft♦
8 hours ago
It would be a situations that simply happens. I do know such a case and I have not heard of any big problems it should have caused. People simply do fall in love, they are people.
– Vladimir F
8 hours ago
1
@VladimirF: A romantic relationship between a (direct) supervisor and supervisee is a poses a serious problem due to conflicts of interest. In the vast majority of cases, the correct behaviour is to immediately end the supervisor–supervisee relationship if this happens.
– Wrzlprmft♦
7 hours ago
add a comment |
Look at things from another perspective:
Suppose, you use the letter with full disclosure of your relationship.
Suppose, you get admitted to the program. Suppose, somebody who didn’t get admitted finds out that you got admitted based on a recommendation letter from your SO¹.
Suppose that somebody causes a ruckus about this, be it legally, internally, or publicly.
Now put yourself in the position of the decision maker who is handling your application and is aware of the possibility of the above scenario.
The decision maker knows that it might be easily their head that rolls if it comes to the above situation.
Even if they have not read the recommendation letter, they cannot provide evidence that they didn’t².
It’s far safer for the decision maker to just reject your application.
Using a recommendation letter from an SO gives them an easy argument for this.
In case there is no disclosure, this might be an career ender for you and your SO due to not disclosing a blatant conflict of interest.
I can even imagine that you may even face criminal charges (e.g., if there are rules that compels you to declare any conflicts of interest, etc.).
¹ For example because your relationship ends badly, and your SO wants to take revenge.
² In exceptional circumstances such as pre-vetted applications, they may, but that’s nothing you can predict.
2
Criminal charges, for applying to a PhD program with a LoR from your adviser who also happens to be a romantic partner. That sounds completely ridiculous. Which crime in which legal system should that be? Also, a missing LoR from the adviser must be explained anyway, it is a huge red flag if it is missing.
– Vladimir F
9 hours ago
3
@VladimirF: In many situations in academia, you are required to sign a statement that essentially says that you adhered to basic academic standards, be it committing no plagiarism, declaring all conflicts of interests, or whatever applies to the situation. One of the reasons for this is that if you fail to do this, the university has better legal options against such as charging you for fraud or similar.
– Wrzlprmft♦
8 hours ago
1
@VladimirF: Also, a missing LoR from the adviser must be explained anyway, it is a huge red flag if it is missing. – Well, she is not the chief advisor, or whatever you want to call it (see the question); otherwise the situation would clearly be problematic without going to letters of recommendation.
– Wrzlprmft♦
8 hours ago
It would be a situations that simply happens. I do know such a case and I have not heard of any big problems it should have caused. People simply do fall in love, they are people.
– Vladimir F
8 hours ago
1
@VladimirF: A romantic relationship between a (direct) supervisor and supervisee is a poses a serious problem due to conflicts of interest. In the vast majority of cases, the correct behaviour is to immediately end the supervisor–supervisee relationship if this happens.
– Wrzlprmft♦
7 hours ago
add a comment |
Look at things from another perspective:
Suppose, you use the letter with full disclosure of your relationship.
Suppose, you get admitted to the program. Suppose, somebody who didn’t get admitted finds out that you got admitted based on a recommendation letter from your SO¹.
Suppose that somebody causes a ruckus about this, be it legally, internally, or publicly.
Now put yourself in the position of the decision maker who is handling your application and is aware of the possibility of the above scenario.
The decision maker knows that it might be easily their head that rolls if it comes to the above situation.
Even if they have not read the recommendation letter, they cannot provide evidence that they didn’t².
It’s far safer for the decision maker to just reject your application.
Using a recommendation letter from an SO gives them an easy argument for this.
In case there is no disclosure, this might be an career ender for you and your SO due to not disclosing a blatant conflict of interest.
I can even imagine that you may even face criminal charges (e.g., if there are rules that compels you to declare any conflicts of interest, etc.).
¹ For example because your relationship ends badly, and your SO wants to take revenge.
² In exceptional circumstances such as pre-vetted applications, they may, but that’s nothing you can predict.
Look at things from another perspective:
Suppose, you use the letter with full disclosure of your relationship.
Suppose, you get admitted to the program. Suppose, somebody who didn’t get admitted finds out that you got admitted based on a recommendation letter from your SO¹.
Suppose that somebody causes a ruckus about this, be it legally, internally, or publicly.
Now put yourself in the position of the decision maker who is handling your application and is aware of the possibility of the above scenario.
The decision maker knows that it might be easily their head that rolls if it comes to the above situation.
Even if they have not read the recommendation letter, they cannot provide evidence that they didn’t².
It’s far safer for the decision maker to just reject your application.
Using a recommendation letter from an SO gives them an easy argument for this.
In case there is no disclosure, this might be an career ender for you and your SO due to not disclosing a blatant conflict of interest.
I can even imagine that you may even face criminal charges (e.g., if there are rules that compels you to declare any conflicts of interest, etc.).
¹ For example because your relationship ends badly, and your SO wants to take revenge.
² In exceptional circumstances such as pre-vetted applications, they may, but that’s nothing you can predict.
answered 12 hours ago
Wrzlprmft♦Wrzlprmft
33.6k9107183
33.6k9107183
2
Criminal charges, for applying to a PhD program with a LoR from your adviser who also happens to be a romantic partner. That sounds completely ridiculous. Which crime in which legal system should that be? Also, a missing LoR from the adviser must be explained anyway, it is a huge red flag if it is missing.
– Vladimir F
9 hours ago
3
@VladimirF: In many situations in academia, you are required to sign a statement that essentially says that you adhered to basic academic standards, be it committing no plagiarism, declaring all conflicts of interests, or whatever applies to the situation. One of the reasons for this is that if you fail to do this, the university has better legal options against such as charging you for fraud or similar.
– Wrzlprmft♦
8 hours ago
1
@VladimirF: Also, a missing LoR from the adviser must be explained anyway, it is a huge red flag if it is missing. – Well, she is not the chief advisor, or whatever you want to call it (see the question); otherwise the situation would clearly be problematic without going to letters of recommendation.
– Wrzlprmft♦
8 hours ago
It would be a situations that simply happens. I do know such a case and I have not heard of any big problems it should have caused. People simply do fall in love, they are people.
– Vladimir F
8 hours ago
1
@VladimirF: A romantic relationship between a (direct) supervisor and supervisee is a poses a serious problem due to conflicts of interest. In the vast majority of cases, the correct behaviour is to immediately end the supervisor–supervisee relationship if this happens.
– Wrzlprmft♦
7 hours ago
add a comment |
2
Criminal charges, for applying to a PhD program with a LoR from your adviser who also happens to be a romantic partner. That sounds completely ridiculous. Which crime in which legal system should that be? Also, a missing LoR from the adviser must be explained anyway, it is a huge red flag if it is missing.
– Vladimir F
9 hours ago
3
@VladimirF: In many situations in academia, you are required to sign a statement that essentially says that you adhered to basic academic standards, be it committing no plagiarism, declaring all conflicts of interests, or whatever applies to the situation. One of the reasons for this is that if you fail to do this, the university has better legal options against such as charging you for fraud or similar.
– Wrzlprmft♦
8 hours ago
1
@VladimirF: Also, a missing LoR from the adviser must be explained anyway, it is a huge red flag if it is missing. – Well, she is not the chief advisor, or whatever you want to call it (see the question); otherwise the situation would clearly be problematic without going to letters of recommendation.
– Wrzlprmft♦
8 hours ago
It would be a situations that simply happens. I do know such a case and I have not heard of any big problems it should have caused. People simply do fall in love, they are people.
– Vladimir F
8 hours ago
1
@VladimirF: A romantic relationship between a (direct) supervisor and supervisee is a poses a serious problem due to conflicts of interest. In the vast majority of cases, the correct behaviour is to immediately end the supervisor–supervisee relationship if this happens.
– Wrzlprmft♦
7 hours ago
2
2
Criminal charges, for applying to a PhD program with a LoR from your adviser who also happens to be a romantic partner. That sounds completely ridiculous. Which crime in which legal system should that be? Also, a missing LoR from the adviser must be explained anyway, it is a huge red flag if it is missing.
– Vladimir F
9 hours ago
Criminal charges, for applying to a PhD program with a LoR from your adviser who also happens to be a romantic partner. That sounds completely ridiculous. Which crime in which legal system should that be? Also, a missing LoR from the adviser must be explained anyway, it is a huge red flag if it is missing.
– Vladimir F
9 hours ago
3
3
@VladimirF: In many situations in academia, you are required to sign a statement that essentially says that you adhered to basic academic standards, be it committing no plagiarism, declaring all conflicts of interests, or whatever applies to the situation. One of the reasons for this is that if you fail to do this, the university has better legal options against such as charging you for fraud or similar.
– Wrzlprmft♦
8 hours ago
@VladimirF: In many situations in academia, you are required to sign a statement that essentially says that you adhered to basic academic standards, be it committing no plagiarism, declaring all conflicts of interests, or whatever applies to the situation. One of the reasons for this is that if you fail to do this, the university has better legal options against such as charging you for fraud or similar.
– Wrzlprmft♦
8 hours ago
1
1
@VladimirF: Also, a missing LoR from the adviser must be explained anyway, it is a huge red flag if it is missing. – Well, she is not the chief advisor, or whatever you want to call it (see the question); otherwise the situation would clearly be problematic without going to letters of recommendation.
– Wrzlprmft♦
8 hours ago
@VladimirF: Also, a missing LoR from the adviser must be explained anyway, it is a huge red flag if it is missing. – Well, she is not the chief advisor, or whatever you want to call it (see the question); otherwise the situation would clearly be problematic without going to letters of recommendation.
– Wrzlprmft♦
8 hours ago
It would be a situations that simply happens. I do know such a case and I have not heard of any big problems it should have caused. People simply do fall in love, they are people.
– Vladimir F
8 hours ago
It would be a situations that simply happens. I do know such a case and I have not heard of any big problems it should have caused. People simply do fall in love, they are people.
– Vladimir F
8 hours ago
1
1
@VladimirF: A romantic relationship between a (direct) supervisor and supervisee is a poses a serious problem due to conflicts of interest. In the vast majority of cases, the correct behaviour is to immediately end the supervisor–supervisee relationship if this happens.
– Wrzlprmft♦
7 hours ago
@VladimirF: A romantic relationship between a (direct) supervisor and supervisee is a poses a serious problem due to conflicts of interest. In the vast majority of cases, the correct behaviour is to immediately end the supervisor–supervisee relationship if this happens.
– Wrzlprmft♦
7 hours ago
add a comment |
I'm going to say yes, but, there is a conflict here. If no one else has worked with you this much, then perhaps it is not the worst choice. If this loved one writes a letter they must disclose their relationship to you, and stick to facts, such as how many papers you've written, grants you've gotten, your punctuality and relationship with peers etc. and how you would fit well into the position. They should avoid generally complimenting you as a person as this is too open to interpretation perhaps.
An important fact that you do not seem to emphasize (unlike number of papers) is the romantic relationship. It should be mentioned explicitly right at the beginning.
– Andrés E. Caicedo
7 hours ago
2
I know of two different couples who publish together constantly and write grants together etc. and are heavy hitting researchers, and write letters for each other all the time. These are ethical and good people and they seem to make it work. Clearly there are issues with doing this, but perhaps it is not an impossibility.
– Behacad
1 hour ago
2
I say "disclose their relationship to you", is that not clear?
– Behacad
1 hour ago
add a comment |
I'm going to say yes, but, there is a conflict here. If no one else has worked with you this much, then perhaps it is not the worst choice. If this loved one writes a letter they must disclose their relationship to you, and stick to facts, such as how many papers you've written, grants you've gotten, your punctuality and relationship with peers etc. and how you would fit well into the position. They should avoid generally complimenting you as a person as this is too open to interpretation perhaps.
An important fact that you do not seem to emphasize (unlike number of papers) is the romantic relationship. It should be mentioned explicitly right at the beginning.
– Andrés E. Caicedo
7 hours ago
2
I know of two different couples who publish together constantly and write grants together etc. and are heavy hitting researchers, and write letters for each other all the time. These are ethical and good people and they seem to make it work. Clearly there are issues with doing this, but perhaps it is not an impossibility.
– Behacad
1 hour ago
2
I say "disclose their relationship to you", is that not clear?
– Behacad
1 hour ago
add a comment |
I'm going to say yes, but, there is a conflict here. If no one else has worked with you this much, then perhaps it is not the worst choice. If this loved one writes a letter they must disclose their relationship to you, and stick to facts, such as how many papers you've written, grants you've gotten, your punctuality and relationship with peers etc. and how you would fit well into the position. They should avoid generally complimenting you as a person as this is too open to interpretation perhaps.
I'm going to say yes, but, there is a conflict here. If no one else has worked with you this much, then perhaps it is not the worst choice. If this loved one writes a letter they must disclose their relationship to you, and stick to facts, such as how many papers you've written, grants you've gotten, your punctuality and relationship with peers etc. and how you would fit well into the position. They should avoid generally complimenting you as a person as this is too open to interpretation perhaps.
edited 2 hours ago
answered 9 hours ago
BehacadBehacad
77549
77549
An important fact that you do not seem to emphasize (unlike number of papers) is the romantic relationship. It should be mentioned explicitly right at the beginning.
– Andrés E. Caicedo
7 hours ago
2
I know of two different couples who publish together constantly and write grants together etc. and are heavy hitting researchers, and write letters for each other all the time. These are ethical and good people and they seem to make it work. Clearly there are issues with doing this, but perhaps it is not an impossibility.
– Behacad
1 hour ago
2
I say "disclose their relationship to you", is that not clear?
– Behacad
1 hour ago
add a comment |
An important fact that you do not seem to emphasize (unlike number of papers) is the romantic relationship. It should be mentioned explicitly right at the beginning.
– Andrés E. Caicedo
7 hours ago
2
I know of two different couples who publish together constantly and write grants together etc. and are heavy hitting researchers, and write letters for each other all the time. These are ethical and good people and they seem to make it work. Clearly there are issues with doing this, but perhaps it is not an impossibility.
– Behacad
1 hour ago
2
I say "disclose their relationship to you", is that not clear?
– Behacad
1 hour ago
An important fact that you do not seem to emphasize (unlike number of papers) is the romantic relationship. It should be mentioned explicitly right at the beginning.
– Andrés E. Caicedo
7 hours ago
An important fact that you do not seem to emphasize (unlike number of papers) is the romantic relationship. It should be mentioned explicitly right at the beginning.
– Andrés E. Caicedo
7 hours ago
2
2
I know of two different couples who publish together constantly and write grants together etc. and are heavy hitting researchers, and write letters for each other all the time. These are ethical and good people and they seem to make it work. Clearly there are issues with doing this, but perhaps it is not an impossibility.
– Behacad
1 hour ago
I know of two different couples who publish together constantly and write grants together etc. and are heavy hitting researchers, and write letters for each other all the time. These are ethical and good people and they seem to make it work. Clearly there are issues with doing this, but perhaps it is not an impossibility.
– Behacad
1 hour ago
2
2
I say "disclose their relationship to you", is that not clear?
– Behacad
1 hour ago
I say "disclose their relationship to you", is that not clear?
– Behacad
1 hour ago
add a comment |
RyanR88 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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10
Did your SO violate any university policies by having a romantic relationship with someone she supervised? At most universities that is considered serious misconduct.
– Anonymous Physicist
14 hours ago
8
Surely there are better alternatives?
– Thomas
14 hours ago
4
Related, if not duplicate: Should I get a letter of recommendation from my mother, who is a famous researcher in my field?
– Wrzlprmft♦
13 hours ago
3
@AnonymousPhysicist At most universities? In a worldwide perspective, really? (I hope not anyway)
– Massimo Ortolano
10 hours ago
I said "supervisor" because my project was very similar to her work at that time and I asked her questions when my adviser was not around. It wasn't like anything official status she was assigned to me. It was a small department and small lab. We have a very healthy relationship with the rest of the group and everyone knows about us including PI and chair of the department. We maintained a very professional relationship at work and nobody mentioned or joked about us during work hours. We tried to keep it private in the beginning but, it is not possible to hide when it is that long.
– RyanR88
3 hours ago