Bujold's Five Gods Books: Why Does the Father Favor the Golden General?





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In Lois McMaster Bujold's five gods books, the Father favors the Golden General so much that the General has an irresistible charisma. He also wins every battle, which can be chalked up to inherent tactical brilliance, but, it is implied, is helped by the Father's favor. Nations fall to him. The Father also answers the General's prayers when his daughter is possessed of a demon, protecting her from that demon--which the Father doesn't do for anyone else who prays to Him on behalf of a loved one who is demon-possessed. The General's death by Death Magic leaves a terrible curse on Chalion, which we learn is the remnant of the Father's blessing on this General (his blood).



Thus, all this evil that occurs in Curse and Paladin is thanks to the Father's "blessings" on the General.



But what is never said is why the Father would favor such a man, answering, it seems, all his prayers. If the General's aim was to unite the world, I'd understand. But his stated aim in Curse was to wipe out all those who followed the Bastard. I'm confused. On the one hand, Bujold puts forth that the gods "love" and favor "great-hearted" souls. Yet here the "just" Father excessively favored one man who, by way of his narrow-minded bias, was anything but.



In Paladin, why doesn't Ista, when she encounters the Father on the stair not ask Him why he did such a thing, leading to the terrible curse on her children? Why doesn't she ask the Bastard why His step-father favored a general who would have wiped out all his followers and erased Him from the pantheon?



I understand that the only one likely to know the answer is Bujold. What I'm wondering here is if she's ever been asked this online or at a convention, and if she's ever answered. The gods in her books do explain their aims and reasons, so saying "we wouldn't understand" is a cop-out on the author's part. What was the Father's aim and why does no one ever ask that? It doesn't seem like favoring this General accomplished any sort of justice (during the General's rise or after his fall), so why did the Father, god of justice, favor him so extravagantly?










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  • 2





    I think the bulk of your confusion arises from your assumption that religious bigotry and great-heartedness are inherently incompatible. In a modern liberal society that would be a reasonable assumption, but not in a medieval setting.

    – Harry Johnston
    Sep 3 '17 at 0:28


















7















In Lois McMaster Bujold's five gods books, the Father favors the Golden General so much that the General has an irresistible charisma. He also wins every battle, which can be chalked up to inherent tactical brilliance, but, it is implied, is helped by the Father's favor. Nations fall to him. The Father also answers the General's prayers when his daughter is possessed of a demon, protecting her from that demon--which the Father doesn't do for anyone else who prays to Him on behalf of a loved one who is demon-possessed. The General's death by Death Magic leaves a terrible curse on Chalion, which we learn is the remnant of the Father's blessing on this General (his blood).



Thus, all this evil that occurs in Curse and Paladin is thanks to the Father's "blessings" on the General.



But what is never said is why the Father would favor such a man, answering, it seems, all his prayers. If the General's aim was to unite the world, I'd understand. But his stated aim in Curse was to wipe out all those who followed the Bastard. I'm confused. On the one hand, Bujold puts forth that the gods "love" and favor "great-hearted" souls. Yet here the "just" Father excessively favored one man who, by way of his narrow-minded bias, was anything but.



In Paladin, why doesn't Ista, when she encounters the Father on the stair not ask Him why he did such a thing, leading to the terrible curse on her children? Why doesn't she ask the Bastard why His step-father favored a general who would have wiped out all his followers and erased Him from the pantheon?



I understand that the only one likely to know the answer is Bujold. What I'm wondering here is if she's ever been asked this online or at a convention, and if she's ever answered. The gods in her books do explain their aims and reasons, so saying "we wouldn't understand" is a cop-out on the author's part. What was the Father's aim and why does no one ever ask that? It doesn't seem like favoring this General accomplished any sort of justice (during the General's rise or after his fall), so why did the Father, god of justice, favor him so extravagantly?










share|improve this question




















  • 2





    I think the bulk of your confusion arises from your assumption that religious bigotry and great-heartedness are inherently incompatible. In a modern liberal society that would be a reasonable assumption, but not in a medieval setting.

    – Harry Johnston
    Sep 3 '17 at 0:28














7












7








7


2






In Lois McMaster Bujold's five gods books, the Father favors the Golden General so much that the General has an irresistible charisma. He also wins every battle, which can be chalked up to inherent tactical brilliance, but, it is implied, is helped by the Father's favor. Nations fall to him. The Father also answers the General's prayers when his daughter is possessed of a demon, protecting her from that demon--which the Father doesn't do for anyone else who prays to Him on behalf of a loved one who is demon-possessed. The General's death by Death Magic leaves a terrible curse on Chalion, which we learn is the remnant of the Father's blessing on this General (his blood).



Thus, all this evil that occurs in Curse and Paladin is thanks to the Father's "blessings" on the General.



But what is never said is why the Father would favor such a man, answering, it seems, all his prayers. If the General's aim was to unite the world, I'd understand. But his stated aim in Curse was to wipe out all those who followed the Bastard. I'm confused. On the one hand, Bujold puts forth that the gods "love" and favor "great-hearted" souls. Yet here the "just" Father excessively favored one man who, by way of his narrow-minded bias, was anything but.



In Paladin, why doesn't Ista, when she encounters the Father on the stair not ask Him why he did such a thing, leading to the terrible curse on her children? Why doesn't she ask the Bastard why His step-father favored a general who would have wiped out all his followers and erased Him from the pantheon?



I understand that the only one likely to know the answer is Bujold. What I'm wondering here is if she's ever been asked this online or at a convention, and if she's ever answered. The gods in her books do explain their aims and reasons, so saying "we wouldn't understand" is a cop-out on the author's part. What was the Father's aim and why does no one ever ask that? It doesn't seem like favoring this General accomplished any sort of justice (during the General's rise or after his fall), so why did the Father, god of justice, favor him so extravagantly?










share|improve this question
















In Lois McMaster Bujold's five gods books, the Father favors the Golden General so much that the General has an irresistible charisma. He also wins every battle, which can be chalked up to inherent tactical brilliance, but, it is implied, is helped by the Father's favor. Nations fall to him. The Father also answers the General's prayers when his daughter is possessed of a demon, protecting her from that demon--which the Father doesn't do for anyone else who prays to Him on behalf of a loved one who is demon-possessed. The General's death by Death Magic leaves a terrible curse on Chalion, which we learn is the remnant of the Father's blessing on this General (his blood).



Thus, all this evil that occurs in Curse and Paladin is thanks to the Father's "blessings" on the General.



But what is never said is why the Father would favor such a man, answering, it seems, all his prayers. If the General's aim was to unite the world, I'd understand. But his stated aim in Curse was to wipe out all those who followed the Bastard. I'm confused. On the one hand, Bujold puts forth that the gods "love" and favor "great-hearted" souls. Yet here the "just" Father excessively favored one man who, by way of his narrow-minded bias, was anything but.



In Paladin, why doesn't Ista, when she encounters the Father on the stair not ask Him why he did such a thing, leading to the terrible curse on her children? Why doesn't she ask the Bastard why His step-father favored a general who would have wiped out all his followers and erased Him from the pantheon?



I understand that the only one likely to know the answer is Bujold. What I'm wondering here is if she's ever been asked this online or at a convention, and if she's ever answered. The gods in her books do explain their aims and reasons, so saying "we wouldn't understand" is a cop-out on the author's part. What was the Father's aim and why does no one ever ask that? It doesn't seem like favoring this General accomplished any sort of justice (during the General's rise or after his fall), so why did the Father, god of justice, favor him so extravagantly?







lois-mcmaster-bujold chalion






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edited yesterday









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asked Sep 2 '17 at 22:33









JKeysJKeys

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  • 2





    I think the bulk of your confusion arises from your assumption that religious bigotry and great-heartedness are inherently incompatible. In a modern liberal society that would be a reasonable assumption, but not in a medieval setting.

    – Harry Johnston
    Sep 3 '17 at 0:28














  • 2





    I think the bulk of your confusion arises from your assumption that religious bigotry and great-heartedness are inherently incompatible. In a modern liberal society that would be a reasonable assumption, but not in a medieval setting.

    – Harry Johnston
    Sep 3 '17 at 0:28








2




2





I think the bulk of your confusion arises from your assumption that religious bigotry and great-heartedness are inherently incompatible. In a modern liberal society that would be a reasonable assumption, but not in a medieval setting.

– Harry Johnston
Sep 3 '17 at 0:28





I think the bulk of your confusion arises from your assumption that religious bigotry and great-heartedness are inherently incompatible. In a modern liberal society that would be a reasonable assumption, but not in a medieval setting.

– Harry Johnston
Sep 3 '17 at 0:28










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I can see at least three reasons:



(1) Why wouldn't the gods favor the Roknari? Just because the Chalion books are from the viewpoints of their enemies, you should never assume that the Roknari are bad and the Chalionese good. We are shown some very good people in Chalion and some very bad people in Chalion. We see few Roknari, but nothing to suggest they are any different. Why not favor a Roknari prince? (And if that doesn't work, try something else?)



(2) As you note, in one of the Chalion books, one of the gods -- the Bastard, I think says to Ista -- that the gods desire great souls, not perfect ones. We know little of him, but it is very possible that the Golden General was a very great soul.



(3) One of the problem polytheisms have is that their gods do not always act in concert -- after all, if they agree on everything, just how are they different? The Father of Winter is shown as a god who focuses on law, order, justice, and other paternal virtues. The establishment of a great empire (which historically tends to improve the lot of most people more than many competing sovereignties would, anyway) might be something he, particularly favors even if his fellow gods might prefer another result.






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    1 Answer
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    1 Answer
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    I can see at least three reasons:



    (1) Why wouldn't the gods favor the Roknari? Just because the Chalion books are from the viewpoints of their enemies, you should never assume that the Roknari are bad and the Chalionese good. We are shown some very good people in Chalion and some very bad people in Chalion. We see few Roknari, but nothing to suggest they are any different. Why not favor a Roknari prince? (And if that doesn't work, try something else?)



    (2) As you note, in one of the Chalion books, one of the gods -- the Bastard, I think says to Ista -- that the gods desire great souls, not perfect ones. We know little of him, but it is very possible that the Golden General was a very great soul.



    (3) One of the problem polytheisms have is that their gods do not always act in concert -- after all, if they agree on everything, just how are they different? The Father of Winter is shown as a god who focuses on law, order, justice, and other paternal virtues. The establishment of a great empire (which historically tends to improve the lot of most people more than many competing sovereignties would, anyway) might be something he, particularly favors even if his fellow gods might prefer another result.






    share|improve this answer






























      2














      I can see at least three reasons:



      (1) Why wouldn't the gods favor the Roknari? Just because the Chalion books are from the viewpoints of their enemies, you should never assume that the Roknari are bad and the Chalionese good. We are shown some very good people in Chalion and some very bad people in Chalion. We see few Roknari, but nothing to suggest they are any different. Why not favor a Roknari prince? (And if that doesn't work, try something else?)



      (2) As you note, in one of the Chalion books, one of the gods -- the Bastard, I think says to Ista -- that the gods desire great souls, not perfect ones. We know little of him, but it is very possible that the Golden General was a very great soul.



      (3) One of the problem polytheisms have is that their gods do not always act in concert -- after all, if they agree on everything, just how are they different? The Father of Winter is shown as a god who focuses on law, order, justice, and other paternal virtues. The establishment of a great empire (which historically tends to improve the lot of most people more than many competing sovereignties would, anyway) might be something he, particularly favors even if his fellow gods might prefer another result.






      share|improve this answer




























        2












        2








        2







        I can see at least three reasons:



        (1) Why wouldn't the gods favor the Roknari? Just because the Chalion books are from the viewpoints of their enemies, you should never assume that the Roknari are bad and the Chalionese good. We are shown some very good people in Chalion and some very bad people in Chalion. We see few Roknari, but nothing to suggest they are any different. Why not favor a Roknari prince? (And if that doesn't work, try something else?)



        (2) As you note, in one of the Chalion books, one of the gods -- the Bastard, I think says to Ista -- that the gods desire great souls, not perfect ones. We know little of him, but it is very possible that the Golden General was a very great soul.



        (3) One of the problem polytheisms have is that their gods do not always act in concert -- after all, if they agree on everything, just how are they different? The Father of Winter is shown as a god who focuses on law, order, justice, and other paternal virtues. The establishment of a great empire (which historically tends to improve the lot of most people more than many competing sovereignties would, anyway) might be something he, particularly favors even if his fellow gods might prefer another result.






        share|improve this answer















        I can see at least three reasons:



        (1) Why wouldn't the gods favor the Roknari? Just because the Chalion books are from the viewpoints of their enemies, you should never assume that the Roknari are bad and the Chalionese good. We are shown some very good people in Chalion and some very bad people in Chalion. We see few Roknari, but nothing to suggest they are any different. Why not favor a Roknari prince? (And if that doesn't work, try something else?)



        (2) As you note, in one of the Chalion books, one of the gods -- the Bastard, I think says to Ista -- that the gods desire great souls, not perfect ones. We know little of him, but it is very possible that the Golden General was a very great soul.



        (3) One of the problem polytheisms have is that their gods do not always act in concert -- after all, if they agree on everything, just how are they different? The Father of Winter is shown as a god who focuses on law, order, justice, and other paternal virtues. The establishment of a great empire (which historically tends to improve the lot of most people more than many competing sovereignties would, anyway) might be something he, particularly favors even if his fellow gods might prefer another result.







        share|improve this answer














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        edited 21 hours ago

























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        Mark OlsonMark Olson

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