Why didn't Phssthpok use hyperdrive?
In Larry Niven's Known Space novel Protector, Phssthpok, a protector-stage Pak, traveled thirty-one thousand light years across the galaxy to rescue a failed Pak colony on Earth. Phssthpok used a Bussard ramjet for propulsion, travelling for centuries at sublight speeds to make the journey. Through other Known Space stories we know that the Pak were responsible for most if not all the Slavers' high technology, such as the hyperdrive, the stasis field and the disintegrator. We also know that they were one of the few intelligent species that survived Suicide Night.
Given this, why was Phssthpok not using hyperdrive? Why were the later Pak refugees from the core explosion also not using hyperdrive? Niven's novels are information dense so it is certainly possible that I missed or forgot the explanation.
known-space
add a comment |
In Larry Niven's Known Space novel Protector, Phssthpok, a protector-stage Pak, traveled thirty-one thousand light years across the galaxy to rescue a failed Pak colony on Earth. Phssthpok used a Bussard ramjet for propulsion, travelling for centuries at sublight speeds to make the journey. Through other Known Space stories we know that the Pak were responsible for most if not all the Slavers' high technology, such as the hyperdrive, the stasis field and the disintegrator. We also know that they were one of the few intelligent species that survived Suicide Night.
Given this, why was Phssthpok not using hyperdrive? Why were the later Pak refugees from the core explosion also not using hyperdrive? Niven's novels are information dense so it is certainly possible that I missed or forgot the explanation.
known-space
1
I'm not sure but I think when Phssthpok departed, they had not invented hyperdrive yet. Note that the chase and space battle that is fought near the end of the book is conducted at sublight speeds also. Wait, are you sure that slaver technology is supposed to have come from the Pak? That doesn't sound right to me.
– Todd Wilcox
Jan 27 '17 at 0:15
13
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the question's claims are wrong. See, e.g., chronology.org/niven which shows the Thrint rule ended around 1.5 billion years before the Pak evolved. I think you're confusing the Pak with the Tnuctipun (who invented stuff for the Slavers) and the Bandersnatchi (the only species to survive the rebellion).
– Harry Johnston
Jan 27 '17 at 0:29
1
Harry is correct. The assumptions in the initial question are incorrect. The Pak did not have hyperdrive.
– Dosco Jones
Jan 28 '17 at 2:01
add a comment |
In Larry Niven's Known Space novel Protector, Phssthpok, a protector-stage Pak, traveled thirty-one thousand light years across the galaxy to rescue a failed Pak colony on Earth. Phssthpok used a Bussard ramjet for propulsion, travelling for centuries at sublight speeds to make the journey. Through other Known Space stories we know that the Pak were responsible for most if not all the Slavers' high technology, such as the hyperdrive, the stasis field and the disintegrator. We also know that they were one of the few intelligent species that survived Suicide Night.
Given this, why was Phssthpok not using hyperdrive? Why were the later Pak refugees from the core explosion also not using hyperdrive? Niven's novels are information dense so it is certainly possible that I missed or forgot the explanation.
known-space
In Larry Niven's Known Space novel Protector, Phssthpok, a protector-stage Pak, traveled thirty-one thousand light years across the galaxy to rescue a failed Pak colony on Earth. Phssthpok used a Bussard ramjet for propulsion, travelling for centuries at sublight speeds to make the journey. Through other Known Space stories we know that the Pak were responsible for most if not all the Slavers' high technology, such as the hyperdrive, the stasis field and the disintegrator. We also know that they were one of the few intelligent species that survived Suicide Night.
Given this, why was Phssthpok not using hyperdrive? Why were the later Pak refugees from the core explosion also not using hyperdrive? Niven's novels are information dense so it is certainly possible that I missed or forgot the explanation.
known-space
known-space
edited Jun 26 '18 at 8:16
Edlothiad
54.4k21287297
54.4k21287297
asked Jan 26 '17 at 23:23
Kyle JonesKyle Jones
46.4k11142222
46.4k11142222
1
I'm not sure but I think when Phssthpok departed, they had not invented hyperdrive yet. Note that the chase and space battle that is fought near the end of the book is conducted at sublight speeds also. Wait, are you sure that slaver technology is supposed to have come from the Pak? That doesn't sound right to me.
– Todd Wilcox
Jan 27 '17 at 0:15
13
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the question's claims are wrong. See, e.g., chronology.org/niven which shows the Thrint rule ended around 1.5 billion years before the Pak evolved. I think you're confusing the Pak with the Tnuctipun (who invented stuff for the Slavers) and the Bandersnatchi (the only species to survive the rebellion).
– Harry Johnston
Jan 27 '17 at 0:29
1
Harry is correct. The assumptions in the initial question are incorrect. The Pak did not have hyperdrive.
– Dosco Jones
Jan 28 '17 at 2:01
add a comment |
1
I'm not sure but I think when Phssthpok departed, they had not invented hyperdrive yet. Note that the chase and space battle that is fought near the end of the book is conducted at sublight speeds also. Wait, are you sure that slaver technology is supposed to have come from the Pak? That doesn't sound right to me.
– Todd Wilcox
Jan 27 '17 at 0:15
13
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the question's claims are wrong. See, e.g., chronology.org/niven which shows the Thrint rule ended around 1.5 billion years before the Pak evolved. I think you're confusing the Pak with the Tnuctipun (who invented stuff for the Slavers) and the Bandersnatchi (the only species to survive the rebellion).
– Harry Johnston
Jan 27 '17 at 0:29
1
Harry is correct. The assumptions in the initial question are incorrect. The Pak did not have hyperdrive.
– Dosco Jones
Jan 28 '17 at 2:01
1
1
I'm not sure but I think when Phssthpok departed, they had not invented hyperdrive yet. Note that the chase and space battle that is fought near the end of the book is conducted at sublight speeds also. Wait, are you sure that slaver technology is supposed to have come from the Pak? That doesn't sound right to me.
– Todd Wilcox
Jan 27 '17 at 0:15
I'm not sure but I think when Phssthpok departed, they had not invented hyperdrive yet. Note that the chase and space battle that is fought near the end of the book is conducted at sublight speeds also. Wait, are you sure that slaver technology is supposed to have come from the Pak? That doesn't sound right to me.
– Todd Wilcox
Jan 27 '17 at 0:15
13
13
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the question's claims are wrong. See, e.g., chronology.org/niven which shows the Thrint rule ended around 1.5 billion years before the Pak evolved. I think you're confusing the Pak with the Tnuctipun (who invented stuff for the Slavers) and the Bandersnatchi (the only species to survive the rebellion).
– Harry Johnston
Jan 27 '17 at 0:29
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the question's claims are wrong. See, e.g., chronology.org/niven which shows the Thrint rule ended around 1.5 billion years before the Pak evolved. I think you're confusing the Pak with the Tnuctipun (who invented stuff for the Slavers) and the Bandersnatchi (the only species to survive the rebellion).
– Harry Johnston
Jan 27 '17 at 0:29
1
1
Harry is correct. The assumptions in the initial question are incorrect. The Pak did not have hyperdrive.
– Dosco Jones
Jan 28 '17 at 2:01
Harry is correct. The assumptions in the initial question are incorrect. The Pak did not have hyperdrive.
– Dosco Jones
Jan 28 '17 at 2:01
add a comment |
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
Because the Pak didn't have it. Their technology was not that advanced, really, at least in Pssthpok's era. (If they built the Ringworld, some must have been more advanced, at one point.)
At the time Pssthpok showed up in Sol System, humans had invented the ramscoop, but didn't have manned ones yet; on the other hand, Brennan considered Pssthpok's ship pretty poor:
It's not that good a design, I could improve it blindfold, but you could buy Ceres with the monopoles!
And figuring out the tree-of-life/thallium issue was a serious difficulty for the united childless protectors of Pak under Pssthpok:
Oh, that's no mystery. Though it had the protectors of Pak going crazy for awhile. No wonder a small colony couldn't solve it.
Given the extreme intelligence of protectors, that implies their knowledge of biochemistry must have been (at the start of the project) below ours now.
-
The "surviving Suicide Night" thing, if correct, must have been established in much later material & wasn't part of the original idea. (Given that the Pak are very biologically similar to Earth life, they must be descended from Thrintun food yeast - like the Kzin, who can eat humans - and thus be much later than the Slaver era.)
Even if it's now canon (and IIRC the Man-Kzin Wars stuff generally isn't), the Pak tend to lose technology:
I told you, they can't keep their technology. Whatever can't be used immediately, gets lost until someone files it in the Library. Military knowledge never gets filed; the families keep it a deep, dark secret. And the only ones to use the Library are childless protectors. There aren't many of them, and they aren't highly motivated.
Great answer! An addition: The Outsiders (an alien race) sold the quantum I hyperdrive to the Human colony of We Made It circa 2409 (but that date can be disputed). Shortly after, humanity was able to end war with the Kzinti.
– neilfein
Mar 10 '17 at 5:21
1
Excellent answer. I particulary like the detail about the Pak not being able to keep their technology. That explains everything.
– Kyle Jones
Mar 14 '17 at 3:57
2
It so happens that I reread Protector a while back. I agree with cometaryorbit's basic thesis that, in Niven's original conception when he was writing the early "Known Space" stories, there had never been any contact between Pak culture and Slaver (aka Thrintun) culture. (The Pak civilization was old, but I don't recall any hint that they'd already been a sentient race over a billion years ago, when the Slavers and the Tnuctipun were destroying each other . . .)
– Lorendiac
Mar 17 '17 at 23:20
add a comment |
Also, the Thrint FTL drive wasn't the Outsider hyperdrive, it was some kind of jump drive that worked on a different principle... possibly shifting directly into a very high layer of hyperspace that makes the jumps effectively instantaneous. It's also apparently unreliable, where you come out is uncertain, and it seems to have some kind of psionic equivalent of the Blind Spot. Here's how World of Ptaavs opens:
There was a moment so short that it had never been successfully measured, yet always far too long. For that moment it seemed that every mind in the universe, every mind that had ever been or that would ever be, was screaming its deepest emotions at him.
Then it was over. The stars had changed again.
Even for Kzanol, who was a good astrogator, there was no point in trying to guess where the ship was now. At 0.93 lights, the speed at which the average mass of the universe becomes great enough to permit entry into hyperspace, the stars become unrecognizable. Ahead they flared painful blue-white. Behind they were dull red, like a scattered coal fire. To the sides they were compressed and flattened into tiny lenses. So Kzanol sucked a gnal until the ship's brain board made a thudding sound, then went to look.
add a comment |
Because the Pak never had hyperdrive.
The Slavers' clever slaves were the Tnuctipun, who all died. No-one except the Bandersnatchii survived Suicide Night.
The Pak evolved later and never discovered the hyperdrive.
Pak with hyperdrive would have resulted in a burnt-out galaxy within a few years!
1
This doesn't appear to add anything to the accepted answer.
– Politank-Z
Sep 16 '17 at 20:05
add a comment |
You're thinking of the revelations from Man Kzin Wars XI, "Teacher's Pet", in which it's revealed that the Pak were engineered by the Tnuctipun.
Fortunately, that seems to be non-canon, since nothing really holds together at all if that's true.. any Protector that saw Hyperspace or even knew it existed would presumably figure out how to build a Hyperspace drive in short order.
add a comment |
The U.N. bought the hyperdrive from the Outsiders - interstellar traders of impeccable ethics - and used it in the Man-Kzin wars.
The Outsiders didn't use the hyperdrive themselves, preferring to remain in Einsteinian space, for reasons of their own. When Louis Wu asked an Outsider why this was so, the Outsider answered, "That information will cost you...."
The Pak would have done everything in their power to completely wipe out the Outsiders, had they come into contact with them. The Pak detest any intelligent life form other than the Pak.
1
Where is this information from?
– Möoz
Jun 25 '18 at 22:31
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "186"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fscifi.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f151190%2fwhy-didnt-phssthpok-use-hyperdrive%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Because the Pak didn't have it. Their technology was not that advanced, really, at least in Pssthpok's era. (If they built the Ringworld, some must have been more advanced, at one point.)
At the time Pssthpok showed up in Sol System, humans had invented the ramscoop, but didn't have manned ones yet; on the other hand, Brennan considered Pssthpok's ship pretty poor:
It's not that good a design, I could improve it blindfold, but you could buy Ceres with the monopoles!
And figuring out the tree-of-life/thallium issue was a serious difficulty for the united childless protectors of Pak under Pssthpok:
Oh, that's no mystery. Though it had the protectors of Pak going crazy for awhile. No wonder a small colony couldn't solve it.
Given the extreme intelligence of protectors, that implies their knowledge of biochemistry must have been (at the start of the project) below ours now.
-
The "surviving Suicide Night" thing, if correct, must have been established in much later material & wasn't part of the original idea. (Given that the Pak are very biologically similar to Earth life, they must be descended from Thrintun food yeast - like the Kzin, who can eat humans - and thus be much later than the Slaver era.)
Even if it's now canon (and IIRC the Man-Kzin Wars stuff generally isn't), the Pak tend to lose technology:
I told you, they can't keep their technology. Whatever can't be used immediately, gets lost until someone files it in the Library. Military knowledge never gets filed; the families keep it a deep, dark secret. And the only ones to use the Library are childless protectors. There aren't many of them, and they aren't highly motivated.
Great answer! An addition: The Outsiders (an alien race) sold the quantum I hyperdrive to the Human colony of We Made It circa 2409 (but that date can be disputed). Shortly after, humanity was able to end war with the Kzinti.
– neilfein
Mar 10 '17 at 5:21
1
Excellent answer. I particulary like the detail about the Pak not being able to keep their technology. That explains everything.
– Kyle Jones
Mar 14 '17 at 3:57
2
It so happens that I reread Protector a while back. I agree with cometaryorbit's basic thesis that, in Niven's original conception when he was writing the early "Known Space" stories, there had never been any contact between Pak culture and Slaver (aka Thrintun) culture. (The Pak civilization was old, but I don't recall any hint that they'd already been a sentient race over a billion years ago, when the Slavers and the Tnuctipun were destroying each other . . .)
– Lorendiac
Mar 17 '17 at 23:20
add a comment |
Because the Pak didn't have it. Their technology was not that advanced, really, at least in Pssthpok's era. (If they built the Ringworld, some must have been more advanced, at one point.)
At the time Pssthpok showed up in Sol System, humans had invented the ramscoop, but didn't have manned ones yet; on the other hand, Brennan considered Pssthpok's ship pretty poor:
It's not that good a design, I could improve it blindfold, but you could buy Ceres with the monopoles!
And figuring out the tree-of-life/thallium issue was a serious difficulty for the united childless protectors of Pak under Pssthpok:
Oh, that's no mystery. Though it had the protectors of Pak going crazy for awhile. No wonder a small colony couldn't solve it.
Given the extreme intelligence of protectors, that implies their knowledge of biochemistry must have been (at the start of the project) below ours now.
-
The "surviving Suicide Night" thing, if correct, must have been established in much later material & wasn't part of the original idea. (Given that the Pak are very biologically similar to Earth life, they must be descended from Thrintun food yeast - like the Kzin, who can eat humans - and thus be much later than the Slaver era.)
Even if it's now canon (and IIRC the Man-Kzin Wars stuff generally isn't), the Pak tend to lose technology:
I told you, they can't keep their technology. Whatever can't be used immediately, gets lost until someone files it in the Library. Military knowledge never gets filed; the families keep it a deep, dark secret. And the only ones to use the Library are childless protectors. There aren't many of them, and they aren't highly motivated.
Great answer! An addition: The Outsiders (an alien race) sold the quantum I hyperdrive to the Human colony of We Made It circa 2409 (but that date can be disputed). Shortly after, humanity was able to end war with the Kzinti.
– neilfein
Mar 10 '17 at 5:21
1
Excellent answer. I particulary like the detail about the Pak not being able to keep their technology. That explains everything.
– Kyle Jones
Mar 14 '17 at 3:57
2
It so happens that I reread Protector a while back. I agree with cometaryorbit's basic thesis that, in Niven's original conception when he was writing the early "Known Space" stories, there had never been any contact between Pak culture and Slaver (aka Thrintun) culture. (The Pak civilization was old, but I don't recall any hint that they'd already been a sentient race over a billion years ago, when the Slavers and the Tnuctipun were destroying each other . . .)
– Lorendiac
Mar 17 '17 at 23:20
add a comment |
Because the Pak didn't have it. Their technology was not that advanced, really, at least in Pssthpok's era. (If they built the Ringworld, some must have been more advanced, at one point.)
At the time Pssthpok showed up in Sol System, humans had invented the ramscoop, but didn't have manned ones yet; on the other hand, Brennan considered Pssthpok's ship pretty poor:
It's not that good a design, I could improve it blindfold, but you could buy Ceres with the monopoles!
And figuring out the tree-of-life/thallium issue was a serious difficulty for the united childless protectors of Pak under Pssthpok:
Oh, that's no mystery. Though it had the protectors of Pak going crazy for awhile. No wonder a small colony couldn't solve it.
Given the extreme intelligence of protectors, that implies their knowledge of biochemistry must have been (at the start of the project) below ours now.
-
The "surviving Suicide Night" thing, if correct, must have been established in much later material & wasn't part of the original idea. (Given that the Pak are very biologically similar to Earth life, they must be descended from Thrintun food yeast - like the Kzin, who can eat humans - and thus be much later than the Slaver era.)
Even if it's now canon (and IIRC the Man-Kzin Wars stuff generally isn't), the Pak tend to lose technology:
I told you, they can't keep their technology. Whatever can't be used immediately, gets lost until someone files it in the Library. Military knowledge never gets filed; the families keep it a deep, dark secret. And the only ones to use the Library are childless protectors. There aren't many of them, and they aren't highly motivated.
Because the Pak didn't have it. Their technology was not that advanced, really, at least in Pssthpok's era. (If they built the Ringworld, some must have been more advanced, at one point.)
At the time Pssthpok showed up in Sol System, humans had invented the ramscoop, but didn't have manned ones yet; on the other hand, Brennan considered Pssthpok's ship pretty poor:
It's not that good a design, I could improve it blindfold, but you could buy Ceres with the monopoles!
And figuring out the tree-of-life/thallium issue was a serious difficulty for the united childless protectors of Pak under Pssthpok:
Oh, that's no mystery. Though it had the protectors of Pak going crazy for awhile. No wonder a small colony couldn't solve it.
Given the extreme intelligence of protectors, that implies their knowledge of biochemistry must have been (at the start of the project) below ours now.
-
The "surviving Suicide Night" thing, if correct, must have been established in much later material & wasn't part of the original idea. (Given that the Pak are very biologically similar to Earth life, they must be descended from Thrintun food yeast - like the Kzin, who can eat humans - and thus be much later than the Slaver era.)
Even if it's now canon (and IIRC the Man-Kzin Wars stuff generally isn't), the Pak tend to lose technology:
I told you, they can't keep their technology. Whatever can't be used immediately, gets lost until someone files it in the Library. Military knowledge never gets filed; the families keep it a deep, dark secret. And the only ones to use the Library are childless protectors. There aren't many of them, and they aren't highly motivated.
edited Jun 26 '18 at 2:04
Buzz
38.1k7128208
38.1k7128208
answered Jan 28 '17 at 4:54
cometaryorbitcometaryorbit
3,4761522
3,4761522
Great answer! An addition: The Outsiders (an alien race) sold the quantum I hyperdrive to the Human colony of We Made It circa 2409 (but that date can be disputed). Shortly after, humanity was able to end war with the Kzinti.
– neilfein
Mar 10 '17 at 5:21
1
Excellent answer. I particulary like the detail about the Pak not being able to keep their technology. That explains everything.
– Kyle Jones
Mar 14 '17 at 3:57
2
It so happens that I reread Protector a while back. I agree with cometaryorbit's basic thesis that, in Niven's original conception when he was writing the early "Known Space" stories, there had never been any contact between Pak culture and Slaver (aka Thrintun) culture. (The Pak civilization was old, but I don't recall any hint that they'd already been a sentient race over a billion years ago, when the Slavers and the Tnuctipun were destroying each other . . .)
– Lorendiac
Mar 17 '17 at 23:20
add a comment |
Great answer! An addition: The Outsiders (an alien race) sold the quantum I hyperdrive to the Human colony of We Made It circa 2409 (but that date can be disputed). Shortly after, humanity was able to end war with the Kzinti.
– neilfein
Mar 10 '17 at 5:21
1
Excellent answer. I particulary like the detail about the Pak not being able to keep their technology. That explains everything.
– Kyle Jones
Mar 14 '17 at 3:57
2
It so happens that I reread Protector a while back. I agree with cometaryorbit's basic thesis that, in Niven's original conception when he was writing the early "Known Space" stories, there had never been any contact between Pak culture and Slaver (aka Thrintun) culture. (The Pak civilization was old, but I don't recall any hint that they'd already been a sentient race over a billion years ago, when the Slavers and the Tnuctipun were destroying each other . . .)
– Lorendiac
Mar 17 '17 at 23:20
Great answer! An addition: The Outsiders (an alien race) sold the quantum I hyperdrive to the Human colony of We Made It circa 2409 (but that date can be disputed). Shortly after, humanity was able to end war with the Kzinti.
– neilfein
Mar 10 '17 at 5:21
Great answer! An addition: The Outsiders (an alien race) sold the quantum I hyperdrive to the Human colony of We Made It circa 2409 (but that date can be disputed). Shortly after, humanity was able to end war with the Kzinti.
– neilfein
Mar 10 '17 at 5:21
1
1
Excellent answer. I particulary like the detail about the Pak not being able to keep their technology. That explains everything.
– Kyle Jones
Mar 14 '17 at 3:57
Excellent answer. I particulary like the detail about the Pak not being able to keep their technology. That explains everything.
– Kyle Jones
Mar 14 '17 at 3:57
2
2
It so happens that I reread Protector a while back. I agree with cometaryorbit's basic thesis that, in Niven's original conception when he was writing the early "Known Space" stories, there had never been any contact between Pak culture and Slaver (aka Thrintun) culture. (The Pak civilization was old, but I don't recall any hint that they'd already been a sentient race over a billion years ago, when the Slavers and the Tnuctipun were destroying each other . . .)
– Lorendiac
Mar 17 '17 at 23:20
It so happens that I reread Protector a while back. I agree with cometaryorbit's basic thesis that, in Niven's original conception when he was writing the early "Known Space" stories, there had never been any contact between Pak culture and Slaver (aka Thrintun) culture. (The Pak civilization was old, but I don't recall any hint that they'd already been a sentient race over a billion years ago, when the Slavers and the Tnuctipun were destroying each other . . .)
– Lorendiac
Mar 17 '17 at 23:20
add a comment |
Also, the Thrint FTL drive wasn't the Outsider hyperdrive, it was some kind of jump drive that worked on a different principle... possibly shifting directly into a very high layer of hyperspace that makes the jumps effectively instantaneous. It's also apparently unreliable, where you come out is uncertain, and it seems to have some kind of psionic equivalent of the Blind Spot. Here's how World of Ptaavs opens:
There was a moment so short that it had never been successfully measured, yet always far too long. For that moment it seemed that every mind in the universe, every mind that had ever been or that would ever be, was screaming its deepest emotions at him.
Then it was over. The stars had changed again.
Even for Kzanol, who was a good astrogator, there was no point in trying to guess where the ship was now. At 0.93 lights, the speed at which the average mass of the universe becomes great enough to permit entry into hyperspace, the stars become unrecognizable. Ahead they flared painful blue-white. Behind they were dull red, like a scattered coal fire. To the sides they were compressed and flattened into tiny lenses. So Kzanol sucked a gnal until the ship's brain board made a thudding sound, then went to look.
add a comment |
Also, the Thrint FTL drive wasn't the Outsider hyperdrive, it was some kind of jump drive that worked on a different principle... possibly shifting directly into a very high layer of hyperspace that makes the jumps effectively instantaneous. It's also apparently unreliable, where you come out is uncertain, and it seems to have some kind of psionic equivalent of the Blind Spot. Here's how World of Ptaavs opens:
There was a moment so short that it had never been successfully measured, yet always far too long. For that moment it seemed that every mind in the universe, every mind that had ever been or that would ever be, was screaming its deepest emotions at him.
Then it was over. The stars had changed again.
Even for Kzanol, who was a good astrogator, there was no point in trying to guess where the ship was now. At 0.93 lights, the speed at which the average mass of the universe becomes great enough to permit entry into hyperspace, the stars become unrecognizable. Ahead they flared painful blue-white. Behind they were dull red, like a scattered coal fire. To the sides they were compressed and flattened into tiny lenses. So Kzanol sucked a gnal until the ship's brain board made a thudding sound, then went to look.
add a comment |
Also, the Thrint FTL drive wasn't the Outsider hyperdrive, it was some kind of jump drive that worked on a different principle... possibly shifting directly into a very high layer of hyperspace that makes the jumps effectively instantaneous. It's also apparently unreliable, where you come out is uncertain, and it seems to have some kind of psionic equivalent of the Blind Spot. Here's how World of Ptaavs opens:
There was a moment so short that it had never been successfully measured, yet always far too long. For that moment it seemed that every mind in the universe, every mind that had ever been or that would ever be, was screaming its deepest emotions at him.
Then it was over. The stars had changed again.
Even for Kzanol, who was a good astrogator, there was no point in trying to guess where the ship was now. At 0.93 lights, the speed at which the average mass of the universe becomes great enough to permit entry into hyperspace, the stars become unrecognizable. Ahead they flared painful blue-white. Behind they were dull red, like a scattered coal fire. To the sides they were compressed and flattened into tiny lenses. So Kzanol sucked a gnal until the ship's brain board made a thudding sound, then went to look.
Also, the Thrint FTL drive wasn't the Outsider hyperdrive, it was some kind of jump drive that worked on a different principle... possibly shifting directly into a very high layer of hyperspace that makes the jumps effectively instantaneous. It's also apparently unreliable, where you come out is uncertain, and it seems to have some kind of psionic equivalent of the Blind Spot. Here's how World of Ptaavs opens:
There was a moment so short that it had never been successfully measured, yet always far too long. For that moment it seemed that every mind in the universe, every mind that had ever been or that would ever be, was screaming its deepest emotions at him.
Then it was over. The stars had changed again.
Even for Kzanol, who was a good astrogator, there was no point in trying to guess where the ship was now. At 0.93 lights, the speed at which the average mass of the universe becomes great enough to permit entry into hyperspace, the stars become unrecognizable. Ahead they flared painful blue-white. Behind they were dull red, like a scattered coal fire. To the sides they were compressed and flattened into tiny lenses. So Kzanol sucked a gnal until the ship's brain board made a thudding sound, then went to look.
answered Mar 8 at 15:15
ResunaResuna
412
412
add a comment |
add a comment |
Because the Pak never had hyperdrive.
The Slavers' clever slaves were the Tnuctipun, who all died. No-one except the Bandersnatchii survived Suicide Night.
The Pak evolved later and never discovered the hyperdrive.
Pak with hyperdrive would have resulted in a burnt-out galaxy within a few years!
1
This doesn't appear to add anything to the accepted answer.
– Politank-Z
Sep 16 '17 at 20:05
add a comment |
Because the Pak never had hyperdrive.
The Slavers' clever slaves were the Tnuctipun, who all died. No-one except the Bandersnatchii survived Suicide Night.
The Pak evolved later and never discovered the hyperdrive.
Pak with hyperdrive would have resulted in a burnt-out galaxy within a few years!
1
This doesn't appear to add anything to the accepted answer.
– Politank-Z
Sep 16 '17 at 20:05
add a comment |
Because the Pak never had hyperdrive.
The Slavers' clever slaves were the Tnuctipun, who all died. No-one except the Bandersnatchii survived Suicide Night.
The Pak evolved later and never discovered the hyperdrive.
Pak with hyperdrive would have resulted in a burnt-out galaxy within a few years!
Because the Pak never had hyperdrive.
The Slavers' clever slaves were the Tnuctipun, who all died. No-one except the Bandersnatchii survived Suicide Night.
The Pak evolved later and never discovered the hyperdrive.
Pak with hyperdrive would have resulted in a burnt-out galaxy within a few years!
edited Jun 26 '18 at 2:05
Buzz
38.1k7128208
38.1k7128208
answered Sep 16 '17 at 19:57
John Lawrence AspdenJohn Lawrence Aspden
1796
1796
1
This doesn't appear to add anything to the accepted answer.
– Politank-Z
Sep 16 '17 at 20:05
add a comment |
1
This doesn't appear to add anything to the accepted answer.
– Politank-Z
Sep 16 '17 at 20:05
1
1
This doesn't appear to add anything to the accepted answer.
– Politank-Z
Sep 16 '17 at 20:05
This doesn't appear to add anything to the accepted answer.
– Politank-Z
Sep 16 '17 at 20:05
add a comment |
You're thinking of the revelations from Man Kzin Wars XI, "Teacher's Pet", in which it's revealed that the Pak were engineered by the Tnuctipun.
Fortunately, that seems to be non-canon, since nothing really holds together at all if that's true.. any Protector that saw Hyperspace or even knew it existed would presumably figure out how to build a Hyperspace drive in short order.
add a comment |
You're thinking of the revelations from Man Kzin Wars XI, "Teacher's Pet", in which it's revealed that the Pak were engineered by the Tnuctipun.
Fortunately, that seems to be non-canon, since nothing really holds together at all if that's true.. any Protector that saw Hyperspace or even knew it existed would presumably figure out how to build a Hyperspace drive in short order.
add a comment |
You're thinking of the revelations from Man Kzin Wars XI, "Teacher's Pet", in which it's revealed that the Pak were engineered by the Tnuctipun.
Fortunately, that seems to be non-canon, since nothing really holds together at all if that's true.. any Protector that saw Hyperspace or even knew it existed would presumably figure out how to build a Hyperspace drive in short order.
You're thinking of the revelations from Man Kzin Wars XI, "Teacher's Pet", in which it's revealed that the Pak were engineered by the Tnuctipun.
Fortunately, that seems to be non-canon, since nothing really holds together at all if that's true.. any Protector that saw Hyperspace or even knew it existed would presumably figure out how to build a Hyperspace drive in short order.
edited Dec 12 '18 at 5:06
Mat Cauthon
17.7k486135
17.7k486135
answered Dec 12 '18 at 4:45
Debug ArnautDebug Arnaut
111
111
add a comment |
add a comment |
The U.N. bought the hyperdrive from the Outsiders - interstellar traders of impeccable ethics - and used it in the Man-Kzin wars.
The Outsiders didn't use the hyperdrive themselves, preferring to remain in Einsteinian space, for reasons of their own. When Louis Wu asked an Outsider why this was so, the Outsider answered, "That information will cost you...."
The Pak would have done everything in their power to completely wipe out the Outsiders, had they come into contact with them. The Pak detest any intelligent life form other than the Pak.
1
Where is this information from?
– Möoz
Jun 25 '18 at 22:31
add a comment |
The U.N. bought the hyperdrive from the Outsiders - interstellar traders of impeccable ethics - and used it in the Man-Kzin wars.
The Outsiders didn't use the hyperdrive themselves, preferring to remain in Einsteinian space, for reasons of their own. When Louis Wu asked an Outsider why this was so, the Outsider answered, "That information will cost you...."
The Pak would have done everything in their power to completely wipe out the Outsiders, had they come into contact with them. The Pak detest any intelligent life form other than the Pak.
1
Where is this information from?
– Möoz
Jun 25 '18 at 22:31
add a comment |
The U.N. bought the hyperdrive from the Outsiders - interstellar traders of impeccable ethics - and used it in the Man-Kzin wars.
The Outsiders didn't use the hyperdrive themselves, preferring to remain in Einsteinian space, for reasons of their own. When Louis Wu asked an Outsider why this was so, the Outsider answered, "That information will cost you...."
The Pak would have done everything in their power to completely wipe out the Outsiders, had they come into contact with them. The Pak detest any intelligent life form other than the Pak.
The U.N. bought the hyperdrive from the Outsiders - interstellar traders of impeccable ethics - and used it in the Man-Kzin wars.
The Outsiders didn't use the hyperdrive themselves, preferring to remain in Einsteinian space, for reasons of their own. When Louis Wu asked an Outsider why this was so, the Outsider answered, "That information will cost you...."
The Pak would have done everything in their power to completely wipe out the Outsiders, had they come into contact with them. The Pak detest any intelligent life form other than the Pak.
edited Jun 26 '18 at 8:14
Edlothiad
54.4k21287297
54.4k21287297
answered Jun 25 '18 at 22:00
UrrrkpopUrrrkpop
1
1
1
Where is this information from?
– Möoz
Jun 25 '18 at 22:31
add a comment |
1
Where is this information from?
– Möoz
Jun 25 '18 at 22:31
1
1
Where is this information from?
– Möoz
Jun 25 '18 at 22:31
Where is this information from?
– Möoz
Jun 25 '18 at 22:31
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Science Fiction & Fantasy Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fscifi.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f151190%2fwhy-didnt-phssthpok-use-hyperdrive%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
1
I'm not sure but I think when Phssthpok departed, they had not invented hyperdrive yet. Note that the chase and space battle that is fought near the end of the book is conducted at sublight speeds also. Wait, are you sure that slaver technology is supposed to have come from the Pak? That doesn't sound right to me.
– Todd Wilcox
Jan 27 '17 at 0:15
13
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the question's claims are wrong. See, e.g., chronology.org/niven which shows the Thrint rule ended around 1.5 billion years before the Pak evolved. I think you're confusing the Pak with the Tnuctipun (who invented stuff for the Slavers) and the Bandersnatchi (the only species to survive the rebellion).
– Harry Johnston
Jan 27 '17 at 0:29
1
Harry is correct. The assumptions in the initial question are incorrect. The Pak did not have hyperdrive.
– Dosco Jones
Jan 28 '17 at 2:01