Why won't good journals retract papers that were proven wrong?












8















I saw some research papers still present in good and reputed journals even though they were proven wrong by other papers. The subject is cryptography.



If a paper is proven wrong, it does not contribute a valid result to the corresponding topic. What is the reason for keeping them intact, which can cause issues for newbies?










share|improve this question




















  • 10





    What do you mean by wrong? Not entirely correct according to the current state of knowledge (but plausible at the time of submission), something like proving that every prime number is even, or some particular instances between these two extremes?

    – corey979
    5 hours ago






  • 7





    Do you have a particular field in mind? Proving wrong in mathematics is totally different than in, e.g., soft sciences.

    – corey979
    5 hours ago






  • 4





    If they have been cited, then basically you are advocating ripping apart the basis for understanding and progressing knowledge. That is a horrible thing to contemplate much less actually do.

    – Jon Custer
    5 hours ago






  • 2





    I don't know what it would mean for a journal to "revoke" a paper. Did you mean "retract"?

    – Nate Eldredge
    5 hours ago






  • 5





    Well, if we're talking about retraction, then I don't understand @JonCuster's point, since retracted papers don't disappear.

    – Nate Eldredge
    5 hours ago
















8















I saw some research papers still present in good and reputed journals even though they were proven wrong by other papers. The subject is cryptography.



If a paper is proven wrong, it does not contribute a valid result to the corresponding topic. What is the reason for keeping them intact, which can cause issues for newbies?










share|improve this question




















  • 10





    What do you mean by wrong? Not entirely correct according to the current state of knowledge (but plausible at the time of submission), something like proving that every prime number is even, or some particular instances between these two extremes?

    – corey979
    5 hours ago






  • 7





    Do you have a particular field in mind? Proving wrong in mathematics is totally different than in, e.g., soft sciences.

    – corey979
    5 hours ago






  • 4





    If they have been cited, then basically you are advocating ripping apart the basis for understanding and progressing knowledge. That is a horrible thing to contemplate much less actually do.

    – Jon Custer
    5 hours ago






  • 2





    I don't know what it would mean for a journal to "revoke" a paper. Did you mean "retract"?

    – Nate Eldredge
    5 hours ago






  • 5





    Well, if we're talking about retraction, then I don't understand @JonCuster's point, since retracted papers don't disappear.

    – Nate Eldredge
    5 hours ago














8












8








8








I saw some research papers still present in good and reputed journals even though they were proven wrong by other papers. The subject is cryptography.



If a paper is proven wrong, it does not contribute a valid result to the corresponding topic. What is the reason for keeping them intact, which can cause issues for newbies?










share|improve this question
















I saw some research papers still present in good and reputed journals even though they were proven wrong by other papers. The subject is cryptography.



If a paper is proven wrong, it does not contribute a valid result to the corresponding topic. What is the reason for keeping them intact, which can cause issues for newbies?







journals retraction






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 4 hours ago









jakebeal

145k31526766




145k31526766










asked 5 hours ago









hanugmhanugm

1,25321422




1,25321422








  • 10





    What do you mean by wrong? Not entirely correct according to the current state of knowledge (but plausible at the time of submission), something like proving that every prime number is even, or some particular instances between these two extremes?

    – corey979
    5 hours ago






  • 7





    Do you have a particular field in mind? Proving wrong in mathematics is totally different than in, e.g., soft sciences.

    – corey979
    5 hours ago






  • 4





    If they have been cited, then basically you are advocating ripping apart the basis for understanding and progressing knowledge. That is a horrible thing to contemplate much less actually do.

    – Jon Custer
    5 hours ago






  • 2





    I don't know what it would mean for a journal to "revoke" a paper. Did you mean "retract"?

    – Nate Eldredge
    5 hours ago






  • 5





    Well, if we're talking about retraction, then I don't understand @JonCuster's point, since retracted papers don't disappear.

    – Nate Eldredge
    5 hours ago














  • 10





    What do you mean by wrong? Not entirely correct according to the current state of knowledge (but plausible at the time of submission), something like proving that every prime number is even, or some particular instances between these two extremes?

    – corey979
    5 hours ago






  • 7





    Do you have a particular field in mind? Proving wrong in mathematics is totally different than in, e.g., soft sciences.

    – corey979
    5 hours ago






  • 4





    If they have been cited, then basically you are advocating ripping apart the basis for understanding and progressing knowledge. That is a horrible thing to contemplate much less actually do.

    – Jon Custer
    5 hours ago






  • 2





    I don't know what it would mean for a journal to "revoke" a paper. Did you mean "retract"?

    – Nate Eldredge
    5 hours ago






  • 5





    Well, if we're talking about retraction, then I don't understand @JonCuster's point, since retracted papers don't disappear.

    – Nate Eldredge
    5 hours ago








10




10





What do you mean by wrong? Not entirely correct according to the current state of knowledge (but plausible at the time of submission), something like proving that every prime number is even, or some particular instances between these two extremes?

– corey979
5 hours ago





What do you mean by wrong? Not entirely correct according to the current state of knowledge (but plausible at the time of submission), something like proving that every prime number is even, or some particular instances between these two extremes?

– corey979
5 hours ago




7




7





Do you have a particular field in mind? Proving wrong in mathematics is totally different than in, e.g., soft sciences.

– corey979
5 hours ago





Do you have a particular field in mind? Proving wrong in mathematics is totally different than in, e.g., soft sciences.

– corey979
5 hours ago




4




4





If they have been cited, then basically you are advocating ripping apart the basis for understanding and progressing knowledge. That is a horrible thing to contemplate much less actually do.

– Jon Custer
5 hours ago





If they have been cited, then basically you are advocating ripping apart the basis for understanding and progressing knowledge. That is a horrible thing to contemplate much less actually do.

– Jon Custer
5 hours ago




2




2





I don't know what it would mean for a journal to "revoke" a paper. Did you mean "retract"?

– Nate Eldredge
5 hours ago





I don't know what it would mean for a journal to "revoke" a paper. Did you mean "retract"?

– Nate Eldredge
5 hours ago




5




5





Well, if we're talking about retraction, then I don't understand @JonCuster's point, since retracted papers don't disappear.

– Nate Eldredge
5 hours ago





Well, if we're talking about retraction, then I don't understand @JonCuster's point, since retracted papers don't disappear.

– Nate Eldredge
5 hours ago










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















14














Without knowing the specifics of the papers you are referring to, it's difficult to respond exactly. In general, however, there is more than one way for a paper to be "wrong", and most "wrong" papers should not be retracted.



The thing is, a paper typically contains more than just a single assertion. When you say that a paper is "proven wrong", it sounds like you are referring to the high-level conclusion, e.g., "Cryptographic protocol X is secure against replay attacks." Then somebody else comes along and shows that actually, there is a way to do a replay attack after all.



Such a refutation, however, often does not actually invalidate any of the actual technical methods or results presented in the original paper. Instead, it will more typically involve showing that they were insufficient in some way for supporting the high-level conclusion. For example, the problem statement might have been formulated too narrowly, or the authors might have drawn a conclusion that was stronger than their evidence actually supported.



In such a case the conclusion of the paper may indeed be wrong, but everything else is indeed correct. Careful phrasing by the original author may in fact mean that the conclusion is even still technically correct (e.g., "According to this formulation, cryptographic protocol X is secure against replay attacks."). In short, the results stand but their implications are much less than the original investigator may have believed.



Bottom line: many refutations may be understood as changing our interpretation of results derived using valid methods, while retraction is generally reserved for invalidating flaws in the methods themselves.






share|improve this answer































    4














    Because retraction is a mechanism to correct misconduct, not mistakes.






    share|improve this answer



















    • 5





      Retraction is also used for correcting mistakes, e.g., if a researcher discovers something went badly wrong in their experimental apparatus that was not discovered until after publication.

      – jakebeal
      2 hours ago











    • Nope. See Wiley's policy: "There is major scientific error which would invalidate the conclusions of the article, for example where there is clear evidence that findings are unreliable, either as a result of misconduct (e.g. data fabrication) or honest error (e.g. miscalculation or experimental error)."

      – user71659
      7 mins ago





















    2














    In many fields, and probably especially cryptography, the evidence of an incorrect result can be very relevant either:



    1) to reduce the effort in a “wrong” or incorrect or less-fruitfull direction,



    2) to provide an impetus towards a solution or a solution for another direction or method.






    share|improve this answer































      1














      Think of the history of scientific papers as being something like an informally maintained blockchain. The integrity of all depends on the continued presence of the old things whether they have been superseded or not. Even if they have been superseded for errors. The reason for this is that things get referenced in newer work. The new things may be corrections or may, in fact, rest on a shaky ground. But future researchers need to be able to resurrect all of the contextual history of ideas and their expression so that science can advance without needing to start over whenever something is found wanting.



      In fact, if an old paper is made to somehow disappear and a newer one covers the same ground, but correctly, then the newer authors are, arguably subject to claims of plagiarism since they "used" some of the old words and ideas that they weren't able to find by searching the literature. There are likely old versions of the (incorrect) paper cached in various places. Better for the old paper to remain in place so that references to it, especially correcting references, remain valid.



      In some fields, having access to old, incorrect, papers can be especially valuable to a student. If the superstars of a field go wrong in proving something important, it is useful to know how they went wrong. That way, similar errors can possibly be avoided in the past. In analysis, for example proofs that contain lots of conditional clauses with quantifiers (for every, there exists, ...) can easily get out of control and hard to follow. Many of these have actually occurred in the literature. It can be fun to find them, and not so easy, in many cases, to correct them.






      share|improve this answer

























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        4 Answers
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        4 Answers
        4






        active

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        oldest

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        active

        oldest

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        14














        Without knowing the specifics of the papers you are referring to, it's difficult to respond exactly. In general, however, there is more than one way for a paper to be "wrong", and most "wrong" papers should not be retracted.



        The thing is, a paper typically contains more than just a single assertion. When you say that a paper is "proven wrong", it sounds like you are referring to the high-level conclusion, e.g., "Cryptographic protocol X is secure against replay attacks." Then somebody else comes along and shows that actually, there is a way to do a replay attack after all.



        Such a refutation, however, often does not actually invalidate any of the actual technical methods or results presented in the original paper. Instead, it will more typically involve showing that they were insufficient in some way for supporting the high-level conclusion. For example, the problem statement might have been formulated too narrowly, or the authors might have drawn a conclusion that was stronger than their evidence actually supported.



        In such a case the conclusion of the paper may indeed be wrong, but everything else is indeed correct. Careful phrasing by the original author may in fact mean that the conclusion is even still technically correct (e.g., "According to this formulation, cryptographic protocol X is secure against replay attacks."). In short, the results stand but their implications are much less than the original investigator may have believed.



        Bottom line: many refutations may be understood as changing our interpretation of results derived using valid methods, while retraction is generally reserved for invalidating flaws in the methods themselves.






        share|improve this answer




























          14














          Without knowing the specifics of the papers you are referring to, it's difficult to respond exactly. In general, however, there is more than one way for a paper to be "wrong", and most "wrong" papers should not be retracted.



          The thing is, a paper typically contains more than just a single assertion. When you say that a paper is "proven wrong", it sounds like you are referring to the high-level conclusion, e.g., "Cryptographic protocol X is secure against replay attacks." Then somebody else comes along and shows that actually, there is a way to do a replay attack after all.



          Such a refutation, however, often does not actually invalidate any of the actual technical methods or results presented in the original paper. Instead, it will more typically involve showing that they were insufficient in some way for supporting the high-level conclusion. For example, the problem statement might have been formulated too narrowly, or the authors might have drawn a conclusion that was stronger than their evidence actually supported.



          In such a case the conclusion of the paper may indeed be wrong, but everything else is indeed correct. Careful phrasing by the original author may in fact mean that the conclusion is even still technically correct (e.g., "According to this formulation, cryptographic protocol X is secure against replay attacks."). In short, the results stand but their implications are much less than the original investigator may have believed.



          Bottom line: many refutations may be understood as changing our interpretation of results derived using valid methods, while retraction is generally reserved for invalidating flaws in the methods themselves.






          share|improve this answer


























            14












            14








            14







            Without knowing the specifics of the papers you are referring to, it's difficult to respond exactly. In general, however, there is more than one way for a paper to be "wrong", and most "wrong" papers should not be retracted.



            The thing is, a paper typically contains more than just a single assertion. When you say that a paper is "proven wrong", it sounds like you are referring to the high-level conclusion, e.g., "Cryptographic protocol X is secure against replay attacks." Then somebody else comes along and shows that actually, there is a way to do a replay attack after all.



            Such a refutation, however, often does not actually invalidate any of the actual technical methods or results presented in the original paper. Instead, it will more typically involve showing that they were insufficient in some way for supporting the high-level conclusion. For example, the problem statement might have been formulated too narrowly, or the authors might have drawn a conclusion that was stronger than their evidence actually supported.



            In such a case the conclusion of the paper may indeed be wrong, but everything else is indeed correct. Careful phrasing by the original author may in fact mean that the conclusion is even still technically correct (e.g., "According to this formulation, cryptographic protocol X is secure against replay attacks."). In short, the results stand but their implications are much less than the original investigator may have believed.



            Bottom line: many refutations may be understood as changing our interpretation of results derived using valid methods, while retraction is generally reserved for invalidating flaws in the methods themselves.






            share|improve this answer













            Without knowing the specifics of the papers you are referring to, it's difficult to respond exactly. In general, however, there is more than one way for a paper to be "wrong", and most "wrong" papers should not be retracted.



            The thing is, a paper typically contains more than just a single assertion. When you say that a paper is "proven wrong", it sounds like you are referring to the high-level conclusion, e.g., "Cryptographic protocol X is secure against replay attacks." Then somebody else comes along and shows that actually, there is a way to do a replay attack after all.



            Such a refutation, however, often does not actually invalidate any of the actual technical methods or results presented in the original paper. Instead, it will more typically involve showing that they were insufficient in some way for supporting the high-level conclusion. For example, the problem statement might have been formulated too narrowly, or the authors might have drawn a conclusion that was stronger than their evidence actually supported.



            In such a case the conclusion of the paper may indeed be wrong, but everything else is indeed correct. Careful phrasing by the original author may in fact mean that the conclusion is even still technically correct (e.g., "According to this formulation, cryptographic protocol X is secure against replay attacks."). In short, the results stand but their implications are much less than the original investigator may have believed.



            Bottom line: many refutations may be understood as changing our interpretation of results derived using valid methods, while retraction is generally reserved for invalidating flaws in the methods themselves.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered 4 hours ago









            jakebealjakebeal

            145k31526766




            145k31526766























                4














                Because retraction is a mechanism to correct misconduct, not mistakes.






                share|improve this answer



















                • 5





                  Retraction is also used for correcting mistakes, e.g., if a researcher discovers something went badly wrong in their experimental apparatus that was not discovered until after publication.

                  – jakebeal
                  2 hours ago











                • Nope. See Wiley's policy: "There is major scientific error which would invalidate the conclusions of the article, for example where there is clear evidence that findings are unreliable, either as a result of misconduct (e.g. data fabrication) or honest error (e.g. miscalculation or experimental error)."

                  – user71659
                  7 mins ago


















                4














                Because retraction is a mechanism to correct misconduct, not mistakes.






                share|improve this answer



















                • 5





                  Retraction is also used for correcting mistakes, e.g., if a researcher discovers something went badly wrong in their experimental apparatus that was not discovered until after publication.

                  – jakebeal
                  2 hours ago











                • Nope. See Wiley's policy: "There is major scientific error which would invalidate the conclusions of the article, for example where there is clear evidence that findings are unreliable, either as a result of misconduct (e.g. data fabrication) or honest error (e.g. miscalculation or experimental error)."

                  – user71659
                  7 mins ago
















                4












                4








                4







                Because retraction is a mechanism to correct misconduct, not mistakes.






                share|improve this answer













                Because retraction is a mechanism to correct misconduct, not mistakes.







                share|improve this answer












                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer










                answered 3 hours ago









                David RicherbyDavid Richerby

                29.2k660123




                29.2k660123








                • 5





                  Retraction is also used for correcting mistakes, e.g., if a researcher discovers something went badly wrong in their experimental apparatus that was not discovered until after publication.

                  – jakebeal
                  2 hours ago











                • Nope. See Wiley's policy: "There is major scientific error which would invalidate the conclusions of the article, for example where there is clear evidence that findings are unreliable, either as a result of misconduct (e.g. data fabrication) or honest error (e.g. miscalculation or experimental error)."

                  – user71659
                  7 mins ago
















                • 5





                  Retraction is also used for correcting mistakes, e.g., if a researcher discovers something went badly wrong in their experimental apparatus that was not discovered until after publication.

                  – jakebeal
                  2 hours ago











                • Nope. See Wiley's policy: "There is major scientific error which would invalidate the conclusions of the article, for example where there is clear evidence that findings are unreliable, either as a result of misconduct (e.g. data fabrication) or honest error (e.g. miscalculation or experimental error)."

                  – user71659
                  7 mins ago










                5




                5





                Retraction is also used for correcting mistakes, e.g., if a researcher discovers something went badly wrong in their experimental apparatus that was not discovered until after publication.

                – jakebeal
                2 hours ago





                Retraction is also used for correcting mistakes, e.g., if a researcher discovers something went badly wrong in their experimental apparatus that was not discovered until after publication.

                – jakebeal
                2 hours ago













                Nope. See Wiley's policy: "There is major scientific error which would invalidate the conclusions of the article, for example where there is clear evidence that findings are unreliable, either as a result of misconduct (e.g. data fabrication) or honest error (e.g. miscalculation or experimental error)."

                – user71659
                7 mins ago







                Nope. See Wiley's policy: "There is major scientific error which would invalidate the conclusions of the article, for example where there is clear evidence that findings are unreliable, either as a result of misconduct (e.g. data fabrication) or honest error (e.g. miscalculation or experimental error)."

                – user71659
                7 mins ago













                2














                In many fields, and probably especially cryptography, the evidence of an incorrect result can be very relevant either:



                1) to reduce the effort in a “wrong” or incorrect or less-fruitfull direction,



                2) to provide an impetus towards a solution or a solution for another direction or method.






                share|improve this answer




























                  2














                  In many fields, and probably especially cryptography, the evidence of an incorrect result can be very relevant either:



                  1) to reduce the effort in a “wrong” or incorrect or less-fruitfull direction,



                  2) to provide an impetus towards a solution or a solution for another direction or method.






                  share|improve this answer


























                    2












                    2








                    2







                    In many fields, and probably especially cryptography, the evidence of an incorrect result can be very relevant either:



                    1) to reduce the effort in a “wrong” or incorrect or less-fruitfull direction,



                    2) to provide an impetus towards a solution or a solution for another direction or method.






                    share|improve this answer













                    In many fields, and probably especially cryptography, the evidence of an incorrect result can be very relevant either:



                    1) to reduce the effort in a “wrong” or incorrect or less-fruitfull direction,



                    2) to provide an impetus towards a solution or a solution for another direction or method.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered 4 hours ago









                    Solar MikeSolar Mike

                    13.4k52550




                    13.4k52550























                        1














                        Think of the history of scientific papers as being something like an informally maintained blockchain. The integrity of all depends on the continued presence of the old things whether they have been superseded or not. Even if they have been superseded for errors. The reason for this is that things get referenced in newer work. The new things may be corrections or may, in fact, rest on a shaky ground. But future researchers need to be able to resurrect all of the contextual history of ideas and their expression so that science can advance without needing to start over whenever something is found wanting.



                        In fact, if an old paper is made to somehow disappear and a newer one covers the same ground, but correctly, then the newer authors are, arguably subject to claims of plagiarism since they "used" some of the old words and ideas that they weren't able to find by searching the literature. There are likely old versions of the (incorrect) paper cached in various places. Better for the old paper to remain in place so that references to it, especially correcting references, remain valid.



                        In some fields, having access to old, incorrect, papers can be especially valuable to a student. If the superstars of a field go wrong in proving something important, it is useful to know how they went wrong. That way, similar errors can possibly be avoided in the past. In analysis, for example proofs that contain lots of conditional clauses with quantifiers (for every, there exists, ...) can easily get out of control and hard to follow. Many of these have actually occurred in the literature. It can be fun to find them, and not so easy, in many cases, to correct them.






                        share|improve this answer






























                          1














                          Think of the history of scientific papers as being something like an informally maintained blockchain. The integrity of all depends on the continued presence of the old things whether they have been superseded or not. Even if they have been superseded for errors. The reason for this is that things get referenced in newer work. The new things may be corrections or may, in fact, rest on a shaky ground. But future researchers need to be able to resurrect all of the contextual history of ideas and their expression so that science can advance without needing to start over whenever something is found wanting.



                          In fact, if an old paper is made to somehow disappear and a newer one covers the same ground, but correctly, then the newer authors are, arguably subject to claims of plagiarism since they "used" some of the old words and ideas that they weren't able to find by searching the literature. There are likely old versions of the (incorrect) paper cached in various places. Better for the old paper to remain in place so that references to it, especially correcting references, remain valid.



                          In some fields, having access to old, incorrect, papers can be especially valuable to a student. If the superstars of a field go wrong in proving something important, it is useful to know how they went wrong. That way, similar errors can possibly be avoided in the past. In analysis, for example proofs that contain lots of conditional clauses with quantifiers (for every, there exists, ...) can easily get out of control and hard to follow. Many of these have actually occurred in the literature. It can be fun to find them, and not so easy, in many cases, to correct them.






                          share|improve this answer




























                            1












                            1








                            1







                            Think of the history of scientific papers as being something like an informally maintained blockchain. The integrity of all depends on the continued presence of the old things whether they have been superseded or not. Even if they have been superseded for errors. The reason for this is that things get referenced in newer work. The new things may be corrections or may, in fact, rest on a shaky ground. But future researchers need to be able to resurrect all of the contextual history of ideas and their expression so that science can advance without needing to start over whenever something is found wanting.



                            In fact, if an old paper is made to somehow disappear and a newer one covers the same ground, but correctly, then the newer authors are, arguably subject to claims of plagiarism since they "used" some of the old words and ideas that they weren't able to find by searching the literature. There are likely old versions of the (incorrect) paper cached in various places. Better for the old paper to remain in place so that references to it, especially correcting references, remain valid.



                            In some fields, having access to old, incorrect, papers can be especially valuable to a student. If the superstars of a field go wrong in proving something important, it is useful to know how they went wrong. That way, similar errors can possibly be avoided in the past. In analysis, for example proofs that contain lots of conditional clauses with quantifiers (for every, there exists, ...) can easily get out of control and hard to follow. Many of these have actually occurred in the literature. It can be fun to find them, and not so easy, in many cases, to correct them.






                            share|improve this answer















                            Think of the history of scientific papers as being something like an informally maintained blockchain. The integrity of all depends on the continued presence of the old things whether they have been superseded or not. Even if they have been superseded for errors. The reason for this is that things get referenced in newer work. The new things may be corrections or may, in fact, rest on a shaky ground. But future researchers need to be able to resurrect all of the contextual history of ideas and their expression so that science can advance without needing to start over whenever something is found wanting.



                            In fact, if an old paper is made to somehow disappear and a newer one covers the same ground, but correctly, then the newer authors are, arguably subject to claims of plagiarism since they "used" some of the old words and ideas that they weren't able to find by searching the literature. There are likely old versions of the (incorrect) paper cached in various places. Better for the old paper to remain in place so that references to it, especially correcting references, remain valid.



                            In some fields, having access to old, incorrect, papers can be especially valuable to a student. If the superstars of a field go wrong in proving something important, it is useful to know how they went wrong. That way, similar errors can possibly be avoided in the past. In analysis, for example proofs that contain lots of conditional clauses with quantifiers (for every, there exists, ...) can easily get out of control and hard to follow. Many of these have actually occurred in the literature. It can be fun to find them, and not so easy, in many cases, to correct them.







                            share|improve this answer














                            share|improve this answer



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                            edited 55 mins ago

























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