Broken bonding in “Star Trek” (2009)
As described in the Star Trek books "Time for Yesterday" and "The Vulcan Academy Murders" (both TOS), when a bonding is broken, it is easy for Vulcans to die from the shock unless they have other family members around to support them.
This is also evidenced in the Memory Beta wiki as well as other writeups in various places. However, in the Star Trek (2009) movie, when Amanda is killed, Sarek merely walks off of the platform.
Is this a plot incontinuity, or is there another explanation?
star-trek star-trek-2009 star-trek-reboot
edited 12 hours ago
Jenayah
17.6k491125
asked Jan 18 '14 at 19:40
JohnPJohnP
16.8k362120
|
show 3 more comments
As described in the Star Trek books "Time for Yesterday" and "The Vulcan Academy Murders" (both TOS), when a bonding is broken, it is easy for Vulcans to die from the shock unless they have other family members around to support them.
This is also evidenced in the Memory Beta wiki as well as other writeups in various places. However, in the Star Trek (2009) movie, when Amanda is killed, Sarek merely walks off of the platform.
Is this a plot incontinuity, or is there another explanation?
star-trek star-trek-2009 star-trek-reboot
edited 12 hours ago
Jenayah
17.6k491125
asked Jan 18 '14 at 19:40
JohnPJohnP
16.8k362120
3
...because in Star Trek, novels are non-canon. Whether this constitutes a "plot incontinuity" or not is up to you.
– Izkata
Jan 18 '14 at 20:16
Exactly this. You can make up silly rules in novels that don't carry through to the official (film/TV) canon. The idea that Vulcans regularly die of grief is just plain dumb.
– Valorum
Jan 18 '14 at 21:00
@Richard But Vulcans are telepaths and there certainly is a telepathic bond between mates in canon. Severing that bond could logically have severe side effects. Vulcans regularly die or lose their minds (in canon) because they can't mate after all.
– mu is too short
Jan 18 '14 at 21:04
3
@muistooshort I think you're right on that one. For a race that has supposedly mastered emotional self-control, they sure do spend an awful amount of time crying and mooning around.
– Valorum
Jan 18 '14 at 21:14
Even within the novels, a bond between two Vulcans was much, much stronger than a bond between a Human and a Vulcan. IIRC, only the bond between two Vulcans was strong enough to cause the mental seizure.
– Omegacron
Jul 3 '14 at 18:56
|
show 3 more comments
As described in the Star Trek books "Time for Yesterday" and "The Vulcan Academy Murders" (both TOS), when a bonding is broken, it is easy for Vulcans to die from the shock unless they have other family members around to support them.
This is also evidenced in the Memory Beta wiki as well as other writeups in various places. However, in the Star Trek (2009) movie, when Amanda is killed, Sarek merely walks off of the platform.
Is this a plot incontinuity, or is there another explanation?
star-trek star-trek-2009 star-trek-reboot
edited 12 hours ago
Jenayah
17.6k491125
asked Jan 18 '14 at 19:40
JohnPJohnP
16.8k362120
As described in the Star Trek books "Time for Yesterday" and "The Vulcan Academy Murders" (both TOS), when a bonding is broken, it is easy for Vulcans to die from the shock unless they have other family members around to support them.
This is also evidenced in the Memory Beta wiki as well as other writeups in various places. However, in the Star Trek (2009) movie, when Amanda is killed, Sarek merely walks off of the platform.
Is this a plot incontinuity, or is there another explanation?
star-trek star-trek-2009 star-trek-reboot
star-trek star-trek-2009 star-trek-reboot
edited 12 hours ago
Jenayah
17.6k491125
asked Jan 18 '14 at 19:40
JohnPJohnP
16.8k362120
edited 12 hours ago
Jenayah
17.6k491125
asked Jan 18 '14 at 19:40
JohnPJohnP
16.8k362120
edited 12 hours ago
Jenayah
17.6k491125
edited 12 hours ago
Jenayah
17.6k491125
edited 12 hours ago
Jenayah
17.6k491125
17.6k491125
asked Jan 18 '14 at 19:40
JohnPJohnP
16.8k362120
asked Jan 18 '14 at 19:40
JohnPJohnP
16.8k362120
asked Jan 18 '14 at 19:40
JohnPJohnP
16.8k362120
16.8k362120
3
...because in Star Trek, novels are non-canon. Whether this constitutes a "plot incontinuity" or not is up to you.
– Izkata
Jan 18 '14 at 20:16
Exactly this. You can make up silly rules in novels that don't carry through to the official (film/TV) canon. The idea that Vulcans regularly die of grief is just plain dumb.
– Valorum
Jan 18 '14 at 21:00
@Richard But Vulcans are telepaths and there certainly is a telepathic bond between mates in canon. Severing that bond could logically have severe side effects. Vulcans regularly die or lose their minds (in canon) because they can't mate after all.
– mu is too short
Jan 18 '14 at 21:04
3
@muistooshort I think you're right on that one. For a race that has supposedly mastered emotional self-control, they sure do spend an awful amount of time crying and mooning around.
– Valorum
Jan 18 '14 at 21:14
Even within the novels, a bond between two Vulcans was much, much stronger than a bond between a Human and a Vulcan. IIRC, only the bond between two Vulcans was strong enough to cause the mental seizure.
– Omegacron
Jul 3 '14 at 18:56
|
show 3 more comments
3
...because in Star Trek, novels are non-canon. Whether this constitutes a "plot incontinuity" or not is up to you.
– Izkata
Jan 18 '14 at 20:16
Exactly this. You can make up silly rules in novels that don't carry through to the official (film/TV) canon. The idea that Vulcans regularly die of grief is just plain dumb.
– Valorum
Jan 18 '14 at 21:00
@Richard But Vulcans are telepaths and there certainly is a telepathic bond between mates in canon. Severing that bond could logically have severe side effects. Vulcans regularly die or lose their minds (in canon) because they can't mate after all.
– mu is too short
Jan 18 '14 at 21:04
3
@muistooshort I think you're right on that one. For a race that has supposedly mastered emotional self-control, they sure do spend an awful amount of time crying and mooning around.
– Valorum
Jan 18 '14 at 21:14
Even within the novels, a bond between two Vulcans was much, much stronger than a bond between a Human and a Vulcan. IIRC, only the bond between two Vulcans was strong enough to cause the mental seizure.
– Omegacron
Jul 3 '14 at 18:56
3
3
...because in Star Trek, novels are non-canon. Whether this constitutes a "plot incontinuity" or not is up to you.
– Izkata
Jan 18 '14 at 20:16
...because in Star Trek, novels are non-canon. Whether this constitutes a "plot incontinuity" or not is up to you.
– Izkata
Jan 18 '14 at 20:16
Exactly this. You can make up silly rules in novels that don't carry through to the official (film/TV) canon. The idea that Vulcans regularly die of grief is just plain dumb.
– Valorum
Jan 18 '14 at 21:00
Exactly this. You can make up silly rules in novels that don't carry through to the official (film/TV) canon. The idea that Vulcans regularly die of grief is just plain dumb.
– Valorum
Jan 18 '14 at 21:00
@Richard But Vulcans are telepaths and there certainly is a telepathic bond between mates in canon. Severing that bond could logically have severe side effects. Vulcans regularly die or lose their minds (in canon) because they can't mate after all.
– mu is too short
Jan 18 '14 at 21:04
@Richard But Vulcans are telepaths and there certainly is a telepathic bond between mates in canon. Severing that bond could logically have severe side effects. Vulcans regularly die or lose their minds (in canon) because they can't mate after all.
– mu is too short
Jan 18 '14 at 21:04
3
3
@muistooshort I think you're right on that one. For a race that has supposedly mastered emotional self-control, they sure do spend an awful amount of time crying and mooning around.
– Valorum
Jan 18 '14 at 21:14
@muistooshort I think you're right on that one. For a race that has supposedly mastered emotional self-control, they sure do spend an awful amount of time crying and mooning around.
– Valorum
Jan 18 '14 at 21:14
Even within the novels, a bond between two Vulcans was much, much stronger than a bond between a Human and a Vulcan. IIRC, only the bond between two Vulcans was strong enough to cause the mental seizure.
– Omegacron
Jul 3 '14 at 18:56
Even within the novels, a bond between two Vulcans was much, much stronger than a bond between a Human and a Vulcan. IIRC, only the bond between two Vulcans was strong enough to cause the mental seizure.
– Omegacron
Jul 3 '14 at 18:56
|
show 3 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
As others have mentioned, novels are non-canon.
However, there is precedent in canon, as Real!Spock1 physically felt the loss of the Intrepid crew to the Giant Space Amoeba ("The Immunity Syndrome") -- a few hundred Vulcans over a distance of at least several light-years2.
Scale that up to several billion Vulcans over a distance of a few hundred thousand kilometers, and it's a wonder any of the surviving Abramsverse Vulcans didn't have their heads explode on the spot.
Would this normally count as a continuity error? Probably, but only gross pathetic geeks like myself would really care. But the Abramsverse is an alternate universe/timeline, so blah blah blah quantum temporal fluxcakes, the old rules don't apply here.
1. No, I am not happy with the Abramsverse reboot, and Into Darkness was a hot mess.
2. Think about that for a second; does every Vulcan physically feel the death of every other Vulcan? Surely at least a couple of hundred Vulcans die on a daily basis from old age or disease or accident. Would you get multiple jolts of death a day? If so, how could you function? It's cool as a throw-away concept, but when you start really working through the implications of it, you're better off tossing it into the continuity trash heap.
answered Feb 18 '14 at 20:27
John BodeJohn Bode
1,609913
TOS had a fair amount of discontinuities all on its own, so that seems to be a pretty minor continuity error, with that one plot point. Especially since IIRC it was by the time of TNG that Vulcan abilities were toned down. Still +1, I had totally forgotten about that
– Izkata
Feb 19 '14 at 0:46
add a comment |
Within the Star Trek canon, only the films & TV shows are considered canon. The only exception to this rule is the animated series, which falls into a secondary canon category - it trumps anything in the novels, but only marginally aligns with the overall canon.
Within the canon (specifically, Voyager episode "Flashbacks") it was explained that Vulcan physiology could literally cause a lobotomy of sorts if the brain was overloaded with intense, traumatic emotions. In Tuvok's case, these were suppressed memories of a negative nature, but the intense grief of lost mate could potentially be in the same category.
More specifically, however, the telepathic bond between a human and a Vulcan (if any) would be nowhere near the strength & intimacy of a bond between two Vulcans. Thus it is difficult to apply the question to Sarek & Amanda directly.
The best answer to your question is probably that it IS possible for a Vulcan to die from a broken bond, however it's highly unusual.
edited 12 hours ago
Jenayah
17.6k491125
answered Feb 18 '14 at 18:08
OmegacronOmegacron
46.7k8144276
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
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As others have mentioned, novels are non-canon.
However, there is precedent in canon, as Real!Spock1 physically felt the loss of the Intrepid crew to the Giant Space Amoeba ("The Immunity Syndrome") -- a few hundred Vulcans over a distance of at least several light-years2.
Scale that up to several billion Vulcans over a distance of a few hundred thousand kilometers, and it's a wonder any of the surviving Abramsverse Vulcans didn't have their heads explode on the spot.
Would this normally count as a continuity error? Probably, but only gross pathetic geeks like myself would really care. But the Abramsverse is an alternate universe/timeline, so blah blah blah quantum temporal fluxcakes, the old rules don't apply here.
1. No, I am not happy with the Abramsverse reboot, and Into Darkness was a hot mess.
2. Think about that for a second; does every Vulcan physically feel the death of every other Vulcan? Surely at least a couple of hundred Vulcans die on a daily basis from old age or disease or accident. Would you get multiple jolts of death a day? If so, how could you function? It's cool as a throw-away concept, but when you start really working through the implications of it, you're better off tossing it into the continuity trash heap.
answered Feb 18 '14 at 20:27
John BodeJohn Bode
1,609913
TOS had a fair amount of discontinuities all on its own, so that seems to be a pretty minor continuity error, with that one plot point. Especially since IIRC it was by the time of TNG that Vulcan abilities were toned down. Still +1, I had totally forgotten about that
– Izkata
Feb 19 '14 at 0:46
add a comment |
As others have mentioned, novels are non-canon.
However, there is precedent in canon, as Real!Spock1 physically felt the loss of the Intrepid crew to the Giant Space Amoeba ("The Immunity Syndrome") -- a few hundred Vulcans over a distance of at least several light-years2.
Scale that up to several billion Vulcans over a distance of a few hundred thousand kilometers, and it's a wonder any of the surviving Abramsverse Vulcans didn't have their heads explode on the spot.
Would this normally count as a continuity error? Probably, but only gross pathetic geeks like myself would really care. But the Abramsverse is an alternate universe/timeline, so blah blah blah quantum temporal fluxcakes, the old rules don't apply here.
1. No, I am not happy with the Abramsverse reboot, and Into Darkness was a hot mess.
2. Think about that for a second; does every Vulcan physically feel the death of every other Vulcan? Surely at least a couple of hundred Vulcans die on a daily basis from old age or disease or accident. Would you get multiple jolts of death a day? If so, how could you function? It's cool as a throw-away concept, but when you start really working through the implications of it, you're better off tossing it into the continuity trash heap.
answered Feb 18 '14 at 20:27
John BodeJohn Bode
1,609913
TOS had a fair amount of discontinuities all on its own, so that seems to be a pretty minor continuity error, with that one plot point. Especially since IIRC it was by the time of TNG that Vulcan abilities were toned down. Still +1, I had totally forgotten about that
– Izkata
Feb 19 '14 at 0:46
add a comment |
As others have mentioned, novels are non-canon.
However, there is precedent in canon, as Real!Spock1 physically felt the loss of the Intrepid crew to the Giant Space Amoeba ("The Immunity Syndrome") -- a few hundred Vulcans over a distance of at least several light-years2.
Scale that up to several billion Vulcans over a distance of a few hundred thousand kilometers, and it's a wonder any of the surviving Abramsverse Vulcans didn't have their heads explode on the spot.
Would this normally count as a continuity error? Probably, but only gross pathetic geeks like myself would really care. But the Abramsverse is an alternate universe/timeline, so blah blah blah quantum temporal fluxcakes, the old rules don't apply here.
1. No, I am not happy with the Abramsverse reboot, and Into Darkness was a hot mess.
2. Think about that for a second; does every Vulcan physically feel the death of every other Vulcan? Surely at least a couple of hundred Vulcans die on a daily basis from old age or disease or accident. Would you get multiple jolts of death a day? If so, how could you function? It's cool as a throw-away concept, but when you start really working through the implications of it, you're better off tossing it into the continuity trash heap.
answered Feb 18 '14 at 20:27
John BodeJohn Bode
1,609913
As others have mentioned, novels are non-canon.
However, there is precedent in canon, as Real!Spock1 physically felt the loss of the Intrepid crew to the Giant Space Amoeba ("The Immunity Syndrome") -- a few hundred Vulcans over a distance of at least several light-years2.
Scale that up to several billion Vulcans over a distance of a few hundred thousand kilometers, and it's a wonder any of the surviving Abramsverse Vulcans didn't have their heads explode on the spot.
Would this normally count as a continuity error? Probably, but only gross pathetic geeks like myself would really care. But the Abramsverse is an alternate universe/timeline, so blah blah blah quantum temporal fluxcakes, the old rules don't apply here.
1. No, I am not happy with the Abramsverse reboot, and Into Darkness was a hot mess.
2. Think about that for a second; does every Vulcan physically feel the death of every other Vulcan? Surely at least a couple of hundred Vulcans die on a daily basis from old age or disease or accident. Would you get multiple jolts of death a day? If so, how could you function? It's cool as a throw-away concept, but when you start really working through the implications of it, you're better off tossing it into the continuity trash heap.
answered Feb 18 '14 at 20:27
John BodeJohn Bode
1,609913
answered Feb 18 '14 at 20:27
John BodeJohn Bode
1,609913
answered Feb 18 '14 at 20:27
John BodeJohn Bode
1,609913
answered Feb 18 '14 at 20:27
John BodeJohn Bode
1,609913
1,609913
TOS had a fair amount of discontinuities all on its own, so that seems to be a pretty minor continuity error, with that one plot point. Especially since IIRC it was by the time of TNG that Vulcan abilities were toned down. Still +1, I had totally forgotten about that
– Izkata
Feb 19 '14 at 0:46
add a comment |
TOS had a fair amount of discontinuities all on its own, so that seems to be a pretty minor continuity error, with that one plot point. Especially since IIRC it was by the time of TNG that Vulcan abilities were toned down. Still +1, I had totally forgotten about that
– Izkata
Feb 19 '14 at 0:46
TOS had a fair amount of discontinuities all on its own, so that seems to be a pretty minor continuity error, with that one plot point. Especially since IIRC it was by the time of TNG that Vulcan abilities were toned down. Still +1, I had totally forgotten about that
– Izkata
Feb 19 '14 at 0:46
TOS had a fair amount of discontinuities all on its own, so that seems to be a pretty minor continuity error, with that one plot point. Especially since IIRC it was by the time of TNG that Vulcan abilities were toned down. Still +1, I had totally forgotten about that
– Izkata
Feb 19 '14 at 0:46
add a comment |
Within the Star Trek canon, only the films & TV shows are considered canon. The only exception to this rule is the animated series, which falls into a secondary canon category - it trumps anything in the novels, but only marginally aligns with the overall canon.
Within the canon (specifically, Voyager episode "Flashbacks") it was explained that Vulcan physiology could literally cause a lobotomy of sorts if the brain was overloaded with intense, traumatic emotions. In Tuvok's case, these were suppressed memories of a negative nature, but the intense grief of lost mate could potentially be in the same category.
More specifically, however, the telepathic bond between a human and a Vulcan (if any) would be nowhere near the strength & intimacy of a bond between two Vulcans. Thus it is difficult to apply the question to Sarek & Amanda directly.
The best answer to your question is probably that it IS possible for a Vulcan to die from a broken bond, however it's highly unusual.
edited 12 hours ago
Jenayah
17.6k491125
answered Feb 18 '14 at 18:08
OmegacronOmegacron
46.7k8144276
add a comment |
Within the Star Trek canon, only the films & TV shows are considered canon. The only exception to this rule is the animated series, which falls into a secondary canon category - it trumps anything in the novels, but only marginally aligns with the overall canon.
Within the canon (specifically, Voyager episode "Flashbacks") it was explained that Vulcan physiology could literally cause a lobotomy of sorts if the brain was overloaded with intense, traumatic emotions. In Tuvok's case, these were suppressed memories of a negative nature, but the intense grief of lost mate could potentially be in the same category.
More specifically, however, the telepathic bond between a human and a Vulcan (if any) would be nowhere near the strength & intimacy of a bond between two Vulcans. Thus it is difficult to apply the question to Sarek & Amanda directly.
The best answer to your question is probably that it IS possible for a Vulcan to die from a broken bond, however it's highly unusual.
edited 12 hours ago
Jenayah
17.6k491125
answered Feb 18 '14 at 18:08
OmegacronOmegacron
46.7k8144276
add a comment |
Within the Star Trek canon, only the films & TV shows are considered canon. The only exception to this rule is the animated series, which falls into a secondary canon category - it trumps anything in the novels, but only marginally aligns with the overall canon.
Within the canon (specifically, Voyager episode "Flashbacks") it was explained that Vulcan physiology could literally cause a lobotomy of sorts if the brain was overloaded with intense, traumatic emotions. In Tuvok's case, these were suppressed memories of a negative nature, but the intense grief of lost mate could potentially be in the same category.
More specifically, however, the telepathic bond between a human and a Vulcan (if any) would be nowhere near the strength & intimacy of a bond between two Vulcans. Thus it is difficult to apply the question to Sarek & Amanda directly.
The best answer to your question is probably that it IS possible for a Vulcan to die from a broken bond, however it's highly unusual.
edited 12 hours ago
Jenayah
17.6k491125
answered Feb 18 '14 at 18:08
OmegacronOmegacron
46.7k8144276
Within the Star Trek canon, only the films & TV shows are considered canon. The only exception to this rule is the animated series, which falls into a secondary canon category - it trumps anything in the novels, but only marginally aligns with the overall canon.
Within the canon (specifically, Voyager episode "Flashbacks") it was explained that Vulcan physiology could literally cause a lobotomy of sorts if the brain was overloaded with intense, traumatic emotions. In Tuvok's case, these were suppressed memories of a negative nature, but the intense grief of lost mate could potentially be in the same category.
More specifically, however, the telepathic bond between a human and a Vulcan (if any) would be nowhere near the strength & intimacy of a bond between two Vulcans. Thus it is difficult to apply the question to Sarek & Amanda directly.
The best answer to your question is probably that it IS possible for a Vulcan to die from a broken bond, however it's highly unusual.
edited 12 hours ago
Jenayah
17.6k491125
answered Feb 18 '14 at 18:08
OmegacronOmegacron
46.7k8144276
edited 12 hours ago
Jenayah
17.6k491125
edited 12 hours ago
Jenayah
17.6k491125
edited 12 hours ago
Jenayah
17.6k491125
17.6k491125
answered Feb 18 '14 at 18:08
OmegacronOmegacron
46.7k8144276
answered Feb 18 '14 at 18:08
OmegacronOmegacron
46.7k8144276
answered Feb 18 '14 at 18:08
OmegacronOmegacron
46.7k8144276
46.7k8144276
add a comment |
add a comment |
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3
...because in Star Trek, novels are non-canon. Whether this constitutes a "plot incontinuity" or not is up to you.
– Izkata
Jan 18 '14 at 20:16
Exactly this. You can make up silly rules in novels that don't carry through to the official (film/TV) canon. The idea that Vulcans regularly die of grief is just plain dumb.
– Valorum
Jan 18 '14 at 21:00
@Richard But Vulcans are telepaths and there certainly is a telepathic bond between mates in canon. Severing that bond could logically have severe side effects. Vulcans regularly die or lose their minds (in canon) because they can't mate after all.
– mu is too short
Jan 18 '14 at 21:04
3
@muistooshort I think you're right on that one. For a race that has supposedly mastered emotional self-control, they sure do spend an awful amount of time crying and mooning around.
– Valorum
Jan 18 '14 at 21:14
Even within the novels, a bond between two Vulcans was much, much stronger than a bond between a Human and a Vulcan. IIRC, only the bond between two Vulcans was strong enough to cause the mental seizure.
– Omegacron
Jul 3 '14 at 18:56