Is it normal for an instructor to refuse to tell students their current grade?
I want to know what my current grade in a particular class is. The professor says she refuses to tell us our grades. The syllabus mentions the same policy.
Is this normal? What should I do?
professors grades gpa
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I want to know what my current grade in a particular class is. The professor says she refuses to tell us our grades. The syllabus mentions the same policy.
Is this normal? What should I do?
professors grades gpa
New contributor
6
This is sufficiently odd that I've never heard of such a policy. Have you checked the syllabus to see exactly how the policy is stated? This is reasonable if it is of the form "I am not going to calculate a provisional grade for you - you have all the grades you've gotten on assignments and can calculate it on your own". Some courses also don't even have provisional grades, only the grade from the final exam. We'll need to know a bit more to be able to advise you.
– BrianH
10 hours ago
2
Some universities require that the grading policies be laid out in advance (e.g.: 40% final, 30% homework, 30% project). If you actually have the assignments you've done, you might be able to compute this for yourself. Other universities have no such regulation, in which case you might be stuck.
– Peter Shor
9 hours ago
1
If you want to know what is "allowed" you'll have to consult your university's own regulations. There is no universal set of laws for education.
– Nate Eldredge
9 hours ago
2
@NateEldredge that would be really annoying to me. Undergraduates should not need help checking their arithmetic.
– Anonymous Physicist
9 hours ago
3
@solarmike I view this as a question about pedagogical technique, which is definitely on topic.
– Anonymous Physicist
9 hours ago
|
show 10 more comments
I want to know what my current grade in a particular class is. The professor says she refuses to tell us our grades. The syllabus mentions the same policy.
Is this normal? What should I do?
professors grades gpa
New contributor
I want to know what my current grade in a particular class is. The professor says she refuses to tell us our grades. The syllabus mentions the same policy.
Is this normal? What should I do?
professors grades gpa
professors grades gpa
New contributor
New contributor
edited 4 hours ago
cag51
14.6k53256
14.6k53256
New contributor
asked 10 hours ago
J.J.JamesonJ.J.Jameson
113
113
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6
This is sufficiently odd that I've never heard of such a policy. Have you checked the syllabus to see exactly how the policy is stated? This is reasonable if it is of the form "I am not going to calculate a provisional grade for you - you have all the grades you've gotten on assignments and can calculate it on your own". Some courses also don't even have provisional grades, only the grade from the final exam. We'll need to know a bit more to be able to advise you.
– BrianH
10 hours ago
2
Some universities require that the grading policies be laid out in advance (e.g.: 40% final, 30% homework, 30% project). If you actually have the assignments you've done, you might be able to compute this for yourself. Other universities have no such regulation, in which case you might be stuck.
– Peter Shor
9 hours ago
1
If you want to know what is "allowed" you'll have to consult your university's own regulations. There is no universal set of laws for education.
– Nate Eldredge
9 hours ago
2
@NateEldredge that would be really annoying to me. Undergraduates should not need help checking their arithmetic.
– Anonymous Physicist
9 hours ago
3
@solarmike I view this as a question about pedagogical technique, which is definitely on topic.
– Anonymous Physicist
9 hours ago
|
show 10 more comments
6
This is sufficiently odd that I've never heard of such a policy. Have you checked the syllabus to see exactly how the policy is stated? This is reasonable if it is of the form "I am not going to calculate a provisional grade for you - you have all the grades you've gotten on assignments and can calculate it on your own". Some courses also don't even have provisional grades, only the grade from the final exam. We'll need to know a bit more to be able to advise you.
– BrianH
10 hours ago
2
Some universities require that the grading policies be laid out in advance (e.g.: 40% final, 30% homework, 30% project). If you actually have the assignments you've done, you might be able to compute this for yourself. Other universities have no such regulation, in which case you might be stuck.
– Peter Shor
9 hours ago
1
If you want to know what is "allowed" you'll have to consult your university's own regulations. There is no universal set of laws for education.
– Nate Eldredge
9 hours ago
2
@NateEldredge that would be really annoying to me. Undergraduates should not need help checking their arithmetic.
– Anonymous Physicist
9 hours ago
3
@solarmike I view this as a question about pedagogical technique, which is definitely on topic.
– Anonymous Physicist
9 hours ago
6
6
This is sufficiently odd that I've never heard of such a policy. Have you checked the syllabus to see exactly how the policy is stated? This is reasonable if it is of the form "I am not going to calculate a provisional grade for you - you have all the grades you've gotten on assignments and can calculate it on your own". Some courses also don't even have provisional grades, only the grade from the final exam. We'll need to know a bit more to be able to advise you.
– BrianH
10 hours ago
This is sufficiently odd that I've never heard of such a policy. Have you checked the syllabus to see exactly how the policy is stated? This is reasonable if it is of the form "I am not going to calculate a provisional grade for you - you have all the grades you've gotten on assignments and can calculate it on your own". Some courses also don't even have provisional grades, only the grade from the final exam. We'll need to know a bit more to be able to advise you.
– BrianH
10 hours ago
2
2
Some universities require that the grading policies be laid out in advance (e.g.: 40% final, 30% homework, 30% project). If you actually have the assignments you've done, you might be able to compute this for yourself. Other universities have no such regulation, in which case you might be stuck.
– Peter Shor
9 hours ago
Some universities require that the grading policies be laid out in advance (e.g.: 40% final, 30% homework, 30% project). If you actually have the assignments you've done, you might be able to compute this for yourself. Other universities have no such regulation, in which case you might be stuck.
– Peter Shor
9 hours ago
1
1
If you want to know what is "allowed" you'll have to consult your university's own regulations. There is no universal set of laws for education.
– Nate Eldredge
9 hours ago
If you want to know what is "allowed" you'll have to consult your university's own regulations. There is no universal set of laws for education.
– Nate Eldredge
9 hours ago
2
2
@NateEldredge that would be really annoying to me. Undergraduates should not need help checking their arithmetic.
– Anonymous Physicist
9 hours ago
@NateEldredge that would be really annoying to me. Undergraduates should not need help checking their arithmetic.
– Anonymous Physicist
9 hours ago
3
3
@solarmike I view this as a question about pedagogical technique, which is definitely on topic.
– Anonymous Physicist
9 hours ago
@solarmike I view this as a question about pedagogical technique, which is definitely on topic.
– Anonymous Physicist
9 hours ago
|
show 10 more comments
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
I've been that professor several times. Much to my own chagrin, there often is no such thing as "the current grade". On a typical day during a typical semester, there are scores for homeworks, quizzes, midterms and whatever other assessments have been completed so far, and there is a formula in the syllabus that computes a "final score" from all the assessment scores, but:
the formula assumes all scores to be known, not just the first few. Extrapolating is not trivial, particularly if the rules include things like "the lowest homework score will be dropped" or "later midterms will be weighted more" or "the first homework will be dropped if the next ones show improvement".
the cutoffs for the grades are rarely decided upon in advance; they often are determined by looking through students's work (the final midterm or exam is particularly good for that, being fresh in the lecturer's mind) and clustering students into categories (e.g., if you see someone doing really good work, you put that student into the A-cluster, so the cutoff for A will be no higher than their score). Some lecturers also curve based on pre-determined ratios (something I avoid, but I've heard of lecturers forced to do this by the admininstration), but again it is impossible to predict the final relative position of a student just based on their current status, as some students improve heavily during the semester.
So computing a "current grade" is a nontrivial exercise in forecasting -- and a thankless one, as the reward curve is biased to the negative (getting students' grades right will net you some thanks; getting them wrong will cause trouble all the way up to disciplinary action). Teaching is hard enough without it.
getting them wrong will cause trouble all the way up to disciplinary action Come on, really? You don't think both the students and the administration understand that having an A average with 50% of the work completed doesn't necessarily mean that the student will pass the course? And you really can't place even a reasonable upper bound on where the A cutoff will fall?
– Elizabeth Henning
2 hours ago
3
@ElizabethHenning: Understand perhaps, but that doesn't mean they would react well, particularly if they can blame me for basing my estimate on guesswork (and guesswork will be part of the estimation process, due to the cutoffs being undecided). As for upper bounds on A cutoffs, I usually can tell that some students will have As -- but these are normally not the ones who would ask me where they stand. The much more common question is C cutoffs, and these depend upon lots of things.
– darij grinberg
2 hours ago
add a comment |
There may be an actual reason for the policy. In particular your professor may take more into consideration than can be captured in any intermediate "average". For an example of what can happen, I once took a physics course that had five exams, the last being the final. My grades for the exams were, in order: F, D, C, B, and A. My "average" all along the way was pretty dismal. The final grade I was assigned (I won't say earned, I guess) was A. I was a happy camper. The prof actually had a reputation as being very strict.
Without knowing more it is impossible to judge whether the professor is being rational or not.
For what it's worth, the reason for the first F was that I "crammed" and stayed up all night before the exam. Well, one reason, anyway. It was open-book, also.
add a comment |
You sound like you are very concerned about your past grades. Students who pay a lot of attention to their past grades tend to believe they cannot control what they learn, because it is a fixed number. Psychologists call this an "external locus of control." External locus of control can reduce the amount of effort students put into learning.
Students who pay a lot of attention to what they need to do in the future in order to learn have an "internal locus of control." They believe their decisions determine what they will learn. These students tend to put in more effort and study more efficiently.
It is a legitimate pedagogical approach for professors to refuse to discuss grades with students. When doing so, it is important to guide students to thinking about things they can choose to do which will help them learn. This can help students view their futures as being something they believe they can control by making good choices. Such beliefs lead to good choices.
Of course, it's possible your professor does not want to discuss your grades because they do not know what they are.
Regardless of the reasons, it is unlikely your professor is required to provide grades before the end of the course.
2
the locus of control theory implies that students should not know how well they are doing. I never heard of this theory before but I strongly suspect it implies no such thing. Students need to know how well they‘re doing for entirely practical reasons having to do with prioritizing competing tasks. If a student is taking several classes and has limited time to study, it‘s rational, desirable and healthy for them to make decisions about how to allocate their study time between the different classes to optimize the overall grade distribution. To do that, they need to know their grades. Simple.
– Dan Romik
2 hours ago
1
@DanRomik I don't believe that optimizing grades is a good goal. That goal leads to selecting courses that require the least learning. Students would be wiser to optimise their actual learning directly, rather than using grades as a low quality proxy.
– Anonymous Physicist
2 hours ago
2
In an ideal world, I suppose you’re right. In the actual world where failing a class can result in losing a fellowship, getting kicked out of school, even losing your visa and having to leave the country and other bad consequences, and where the difference between an A and an A- can mean not getting into your grad school of choice, the system essentially forces students to solve such optimization problems all the time as a survival strategy. You may not like that the system works that way, but it does, so I don’t think withholding grade information from students is a viable approach.
– Dan Romik
2 hours ago
1
@DanRomik Exactly. It's actually worse than that: the students whose learning benefits most from having regular, consistent feedback overlaps heavily with the students from marginalized demographics, which also overlaps heavily with the students who have the most on the line with good grades. I personally believe that this is one of the common, unquestioned practices in STEM that contributes to keeping it heavily white and male.
– Elizabeth Henning
2 hours ago
1
@ElizabethHenning good point. But can you clarify what specifically is the “common, unquestioned practice” that you’re referring to?
– Dan Romik
2 hours ago
|
show 12 more comments
I've actually seen this a lot, and I think it's completely reprehensible. The reasoning is ostensibly that the only "grade" is the final grade, which cannot be accurately determined until after the final exam.
Unfortunately, you're not going to get anywhere with this instructor trying to get her to budge on this. You might have more luck with asking her a more noncommittal question, such as "How am I doing in the course?" or by asking her for advice about how you can do better (even if you're already doing well).
As someone who's TA'd for professors with this ridiculous policy, I can tell you that badgering the TA won't help. The TA doesn't know either. Really.
add a comment |
Personally I think an instructor ought to maintain a running grade count, but it is conceivable that one might not. Might only do the data entry and calculation at the end. Or maybe wants to retain ability to finesse the grades a bit (will only be done in your favor unless a snake, though).
I doubt there is a policy requiring the prof to give interim grading instruction, but of course you could check. There is a big difference between "required" and optimal.
For what it is worth, I went to a school that had formal, published interim grades every 4 weeks, during 16 week semesters. Most people hated this more than like it since it could create academic sanctions...
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I've been that professor several times. Much to my own chagrin, there often is no such thing as "the current grade". On a typical day during a typical semester, there are scores for homeworks, quizzes, midterms and whatever other assessments have been completed so far, and there is a formula in the syllabus that computes a "final score" from all the assessment scores, but:
the formula assumes all scores to be known, not just the first few. Extrapolating is not trivial, particularly if the rules include things like "the lowest homework score will be dropped" or "later midterms will be weighted more" or "the first homework will be dropped if the next ones show improvement".
the cutoffs for the grades are rarely decided upon in advance; they often are determined by looking through students's work (the final midterm or exam is particularly good for that, being fresh in the lecturer's mind) and clustering students into categories (e.g., if you see someone doing really good work, you put that student into the A-cluster, so the cutoff for A will be no higher than their score). Some lecturers also curve based on pre-determined ratios (something I avoid, but I've heard of lecturers forced to do this by the admininstration), but again it is impossible to predict the final relative position of a student just based on their current status, as some students improve heavily during the semester.
So computing a "current grade" is a nontrivial exercise in forecasting -- and a thankless one, as the reward curve is biased to the negative (getting students' grades right will net you some thanks; getting them wrong will cause trouble all the way up to disciplinary action). Teaching is hard enough without it.
getting them wrong will cause trouble all the way up to disciplinary action Come on, really? You don't think both the students and the administration understand that having an A average with 50% of the work completed doesn't necessarily mean that the student will pass the course? And you really can't place even a reasonable upper bound on where the A cutoff will fall?
– Elizabeth Henning
2 hours ago
3
@ElizabethHenning: Understand perhaps, but that doesn't mean they would react well, particularly if they can blame me for basing my estimate on guesswork (and guesswork will be part of the estimation process, due to the cutoffs being undecided). As for upper bounds on A cutoffs, I usually can tell that some students will have As -- but these are normally not the ones who would ask me where they stand. The much more common question is C cutoffs, and these depend upon lots of things.
– darij grinberg
2 hours ago
add a comment |
I've been that professor several times. Much to my own chagrin, there often is no such thing as "the current grade". On a typical day during a typical semester, there are scores for homeworks, quizzes, midterms and whatever other assessments have been completed so far, and there is a formula in the syllabus that computes a "final score" from all the assessment scores, but:
the formula assumes all scores to be known, not just the first few. Extrapolating is not trivial, particularly if the rules include things like "the lowest homework score will be dropped" or "later midterms will be weighted more" or "the first homework will be dropped if the next ones show improvement".
the cutoffs for the grades are rarely decided upon in advance; they often are determined by looking through students's work (the final midterm or exam is particularly good for that, being fresh in the lecturer's mind) and clustering students into categories (e.g., if you see someone doing really good work, you put that student into the A-cluster, so the cutoff for A will be no higher than their score). Some lecturers also curve based on pre-determined ratios (something I avoid, but I've heard of lecturers forced to do this by the admininstration), but again it is impossible to predict the final relative position of a student just based on their current status, as some students improve heavily during the semester.
So computing a "current grade" is a nontrivial exercise in forecasting -- and a thankless one, as the reward curve is biased to the negative (getting students' grades right will net you some thanks; getting them wrong will cause trouble all the way up to disciplinary action). Teaching is hard enough without it.
getting them wrong will cause trouble all the way up to disciplinary action Come on, really? You don't think both the students and the administration understand that having an A average with 50% of the work completed doesn't necessarily mean that the student will pass the course? And you really can't place even a reasonable upper bound on where the A cutoff will fall?
– Elizabeth Henning
2 hours ago
3
@ElizabethHenning: Understand perhaps, but that doesn't mean they would react well, particularly if they can blame me for basing my estimate on guesswork (and guesswork will be part of the estimation process, due to the cutoffs being undecided). As for upper bounds on A cutoffs, I usually can tell that some students will have As -- but these are normally not the ones who would ask me where they stand. The much more common question is C cutoffs, and these depend upon lots of things.
– darij grinberg
2 hours ago
add a comment |
I've been that professor several times. Much to my own chagrin, there often is no such thing as "the current grade". On a typical day during a typical semester, there are scores for homeworks, quizzes, midterms and whatever other assessments have been completed so far, and there is a formula in the syllabus that computes a "final score" from all the assessment scores, but:
the formula assumes all scores to be known, not just the first few. Extrapolating is not trivial, particularly if the rules include things like "the lowest homework score will be dropped" or "later midterms will be weighted more" or "the first homework will be dropped if the next ones show improvement".
the cutoffs for the grades are rarely decided upon in advance; they often are determined by looking through students's work (the final midterm or exam is particularly good for that, being fresh in the lecturer's mind) and clustering students into categories (e.g., if you see someone doing really good work, you put that student into the A-cluster, so the cutoff for A will be no higher than their score). Some lecturers also curve based on pre-determined ratios (something I avoid, but I've heard of lecturers forced to do this by the admininstration), but again it is impossible to predict the final relative position of a student just based on their current status, as some students improve heavily during the semester.
So computing a "current grade" is a nontrivial exercise in forecasting -- and a thankless one, as the reward curve is biased to the negative (getting students' grades right will net you some thanks; getting them wrong will cause trouble all the way up to disciplinary action). Teaching is hard enough without it.
I've been that professor several times. Much to my own chagrin, there often is no such thing as "the current grade". On a typical day during a typical semester, there are scores for homeworks, quizzes, midterms and whatever other assessments have been completed so far, and there is a formula in the syllabus that computes a "final score" from all the assessment scores, but:
the formula assumes all scores to be known, not just the first few. Extrapolating is not trivial, particularly if the rules include things like "the lowest homework score will be dropped" or "later midterms will be weighted more" or "the first homework will be dropped if the next ones show improvement".
the cutoffs for the grades are rarely decided upon in advance; they often are determined by looking through students's work (the final midterm or exam is particularly good for that, being fresh in the lecturer's mind) and clustering students into categories (e.g., if you see someone doing really good work, you put that student into the A-cluster, so the cutoff for A will be no higher than their score). Some lecturers also curve based on pre-determined ratios (something I avoid, but I've heard of lecturers forced to do this by the admininstration), but again it is impossible to predict the final relative position of a student just based on their current status, as some students improve heavily during the semester.
So computing a "current grade" is a nontrivial exercise in forecasting -- and a thankless one, as the reward curve is biased to the negative (getting students' grades right will net you some thanks; getting them wrong will cause trouble all the way up to disciplinary action). Teaching is hard enough without it.
answered 3 hours ago
darij grinbergdarij grinberg
2,42611220
2,42611220
getting them wrong will cause trouble all the way up to disciplinary action Come on, really? You don't think both the students and the administration understand that having an A average with 50% of the work completed doesn't necessarily mean that the student will pass the course? And you really can't place even a reasonable upper bound on where the A cutoff will fall?
– Elizabeth Henning
2 hours ago
3
@ElizabethHenning: Understand perhaps, but that doesn't mean they would react well, particularly if they can blame me for basing my estimate on guesswork (and guesswork will be part of the estimation process, due to the cutoffs being undecided). As for upper bounds on A cutoffs, I usually can tell that some students will have As -- but these are normally not the ones who would ask me where they stand. The much more common question is C cutoffs, and these depend upon lots of things.
– darij grinberg
2 hours ago
add a comment |
getting them wrong will cause trouble all the way up to disciplinary action Come on, really? You don't think both the students and the administration understand that having an A average with 50% of the work completed doesn't necessarily mean that the student will pass the course? And you really can't place even a reasonable upper bound on where the A cutoff will fall?
– Elizabeth Henning
2 hours ago
3
@ElizabethHenning: Understand perhaps, but that doesn't mean they would react well, particularly if they can blame me for basing my estimate on guesswork (and guesswork will be part of the estimation process, due to the cutoffs being undecided). As for upper bounds on A cutoffs, I usually can tell that some students will have As -- but these are normally not the ones who would ask me where they stand. The much more common question is C cutoffs, and these depend upon lots of things.
– darij grinberg
2 hours ago
getting them wrong will cause trouble all the way up to disciplinary action Come on, really? You don't think both the students and the administration understand that having an A average with 50% of the work completed doesn't necessarily mean that the student will pass the course? And you really can't place even a reasonable upper bound on where the A cutoff will fall?
– Elizabeth Henning
2 hours ago
getting them wrong will cause trouble all the way up to disciplinary action Come on, really? You don't think both the students and the administration understand that having an A average with 50% of the work completed doesn't necessarily mean that the student will pass the course? And you really can't place even a reasonable upper bound on where the A cutoff will fall?
– Elizabeth Henning
2 hours ago
3
3
@ElizabethHenning: Understand perhaps, but that doesn't mean they would react well, particularly if they can blame me for basing my estimate on guesswork (and guesswork will be part of the estimation process, due to the cutoffs being undecided). As for upper bounds on A cutoffs, I usually can tell that some students will have As -- but these are normally not the ones who would ask me where they stand. The much more common question is C cutoffs, and these depend upon lots of things.
– darij grinberg
2 hours ago
@ElizabethHenning: Understand perhaps, but that doesn't mean they would react well, particularly if they can blame me for basing my estimate on guesswork (and guesswork will be part of the estimation process, due to the cutoffs being undecided). As for upper bounds on A cutoffs, I usually can tell that some students will have As -- but these are normally not the ones who would ask me where they stand. The much more common question is C cutoffs, and these depend upon lots of things.
– darij grinberg
2 hours ago
add a comment |
There may be an actual reason for the policy. In particular your professor may take more into consideration than can be captured in any intermediate "average". For an example of what can happen, I once took a physics course that had five exams, the last being the final. My grades for the exams were, in order: F, D, C, B, and A. My "average" all along the way was pretty dismal. The final grade I was assigned (I won't say earned, I guess) was A. I was a happy camper. The prof actually had a reputation as being very strict.
Without knowing more it is impossible to judge whether the professor is being rational or not.
For what it's worth, the reason for the first F was that I "crammed" and stayed up all night before the exam. Well, one reason, anyway. It was open-book, also.
add a comment |
There may be an actual reason for the policy. In particular your professor may take more into consideration than can be captured in any intermediate "average". For an example of what can happen, I once took a physics course that had five exams, the last being the final. My grades for the exams were, in order: F, D, C, B, and A. My "average" all along the way was pretty dismal. The final grade I was assigned (I won't say earned, I guess) was A. I was a happy camper. The prof actually had a reputation as being very strict.
Without knowing more it is impossible to judge whether the professor is being rational or not.
For what it's worth, the reason for the first F was that I "crammed" and stayed up all night before the exam. Well, one reason, anyway. It was open-book, also.
add a comment |
There may be an actual reason for the policy. In particular your professor may take more into consideration than can be captured in any intermediate "average". For an example of what can happen, I once took a physics course that had five exams, the last being the final. My grades for the exams were, in order: F, D, C, B, and A. My "average" all along the way was pretty dismal. The final grade I was assigned (I won't say earned, I guess) was A. I was a happy camper. The prof actually had a reputation as being very strict.
Without knowing more it is impossible to judge whether the professor is being rational or not.
For what it's worth, the reason for the first F was that I "crammed" and stayed up all night before the exam. Well, one reason, anyway. It was open-book, also.
There may be an actual reason for the policy. In particular your professor may take more into consideration than can be captured in any intermediate "average". For an example of what can happen, I once took a physics course that had five exams, the last being the final. My grades for the exams were, in order: F, D, C, B, and A. My "average" all along the way was pretty dismal. The final grade I was assigned (I won't say earned, I guess) was A. I was a happy camper. The prof actually had a reputation as being very strict.
Without knowing more it is impossible to judge whether the professor is being rational or not.
For what it's worth, the reason for the first F was that I "crammed" and stayed up all night before the exam. Well, one reason, anyway. It was open-book, also.
edited 9 hours ago
answered 9 hours ago
BuffyBuffy
45.7k12147233
45.7k12147233
add a comment |
add a comment |
You sound like you are very concerned about your past grades. Students who pay a lot of attention to their past grades tend to believe they cannot control what they learn, because it is a fixed number. Psychologists call this an "external locus of control." External locus of control can reduce the amount of effort students put into learning.
Students who pay a lot of attention to what they need to do in the future in order to learn have an "internal locus of control." They believe their decisions determine what they will learn. These students tend to put in more effort and study more efficiently.
It is a legitimate pedagogical approach for professors to refuse to discuss grades with students. When doing so, it is important to guide students to thinking about things they can choose to do which will help them learn. This can help students view their futures as being something they believe they can control by making good choices. Such beliefs lead to good choices.
Of course, it's possible your professor does not want to discuss your grades because they do not know what they are.
Regardless of the reasons, it is unlikely your professor is required to provide grades before the end of the course.
2
the locus of control theory implies that students should not know how well they are doing. I never heard of this theory before but I strongly suspect it implies no such thing. Students need to know how well they‘re doing for entirely practical reasons having to do with prioritizing competing tasks. If a student is taking several classes and has limited time to study, it‘s rational, desirable and healthy for them to make decisions about how to allocate their study time between the different classes to optimize the overall grade distribution. To do that, they need to know their grades. Simple.
– Dan Romik
2 hours ago
1
@DanRomik I don't believe that optimizing grades is a good goal. That goal leads to selecting courses that require the least learning. Students would be wiser to optimise their actual learning directly, rather than using grades as a low quality proxy.
– Anonymous Physicist
2 hours ago
2
In an ideal world, I suppose you’re right. In the actual world where failing a class can result in losing a fellowship, getting kicked out of school, even losing your visa and having to leave the country and other bad consequences, and where the difference between an A and an A- can mean not getting into your grad school of choice, the system essentially forces students to solve such optimization problems all the time as a survival strategy. You may not like that the system works that way, but it does, so I don’t think withholding grade information from students is a viable approach.
– Dan Romik
2 hours ago
1
@DanRomik Exactly. It's actually worse than that: the students whose learning benefits most from having regular, consistent feedback overlaps heavily with the students from marginalized demographics, which also overlaps heavily with the students who have the most on the line with good grades. I personally believe that this is one of the common, unquestioned practices in STEM that contributes to keeping it heavily white and male.
– Elizabeth Henning
2 hours ago
1
@ElizabethHenning good point. But can you clarify what specifically is the “common, unquestioned practice” that you’re referring to?
– Dan Romik
2 hours ago
|
show 12 more comments
You sound like you are very concerned about your past grades. Students who pay a lot of attention to their past grades tend to believe they cannot control what they learn, because it is a fixed number. Psychologists call this an "external locus of control." External locus of control can reduce the amount of effort students put into learning.
Students who pay a lot of attention to what they need to do in the future in order to learn have an "internal locus of control." They believe their decisions determine what they will learn. These students tend to put in more effort and study more efficiently.
It is a legitimate pedagogical approach for professors to refuse to discuss grades with students. When doing so, it is important to guide students to thinking about things they can choose to do which will help them learn. This can help students view their futures as being something they believe they can control by making good choices. Such beliefs lead to good choices.
Of course, it's possible your professor does not want to discuss your grades because they do not know what they are.
Regardless of the reasons, it is unlikely your professor is required to provide grades before the end of the course.
2
the locus of control theory implies that students should not know how well they are doing. I never heard of this theory before but I strongly suspect it implies no such thing. Students need to know how well they‘re doing for entirely practical reasons having to do with prioritizing competing tasks. If a student is taking several classes and has limited time to study, it‘s rational, desirable and healthy for them to make decisions about how to allocate their study time between the different classes to optimize the overall grade distribution. To do that, they need to know their grades. Simple.
– Dan Romik
2 hours ago
1
@DanRomik I don't believe that optimizing grades is a good goal. That goal leads to selecting courses that require the least learning. Students would be wiser to optimise their actual learning directly, rather than using grades as a low quality proxy.
– Anonymous Physicist
2 hours ago
2
In an ideal world, I suppose you’re right. In the actual world where failing a class can result in losing a fellowship, getting kicked out of school, even losing your visa and having to leave the country and other bad consequences, and where the difference between an A and an A- can mean not getting into your grad school of choice, the system essentially forces students to solve such optimization problems all the time as a survival strategy. You may not like that the system works that way, but it does, so I don’t think withholding grade information from students is a viable approach.
– Dan Romik
2 hours ago
1
@DanRomik Exactly. It's actually worse than that: the students whose learning benefits most from having regular, consistent feedback overlaps heavily with the students from marginalized demographics, which also overlaps heavily with the students who have the most on the line with good grades. I personally believe that this is one of the common, unquestioned practices in STEM that contributes to keeping it heavily white and male.
– Elizabeth Henning
2 hours ago
1
@ElizabethHenning good point. But can you clarify what specifically is the “common, unquestioned practice” that you’re referring to?
– Dan Romik
2 hours ago
|
show 12 more comments
You sound like you are very concerned about your past grades. Students who pay a lot of attention to their past grades tend to believe they cannot control what they learn, because it is a fixed number. Psychologists call this an "external locus of control." External locus of control can reduce the amount of effort students put into learning.
Students who pay a lot of attention to what they need to do in the future in order to learn have an "internal locus of control." They believe their decisions determine what they will learn. These students tend to put in more effort and study more efficiently.
It is a legitimate pedagogical approach for professors to refuse to discuss grades with students. When doing so, it is important to guide students to thinking about things they can choose to do which will help them learn. This can help students view their futures as being something they believe they can control by making good choices. Such beliefs lead to good choices.
Of course, it's possible your professor does not want to discuss your grades because they do not know what they are.
Regardless of the reasons, it is unlikely your professor is required to provide grades before the end of the course.
You sound like you are very concerned about your past grades. Students who pay a lot of attention to their past grades tend to believe they cannot control what they learn, because it is a fixed number. Psychologists call this an "external locus of control." External locus of control can reduce the amount of effort students put into learning.
Students who pay a lot of attention to what they need to do in the future in order to learn have an "internal locus of control." They believe their decisions determine what they will learn. These students tend to put in more effort and study more efficiently.
It is a legitimate pedagogical approach for professors to refuse to discuss grades with students. When doing so, it is important to guide students to thinking about things they can choose to do which will help them learn. This can help students view their futures as being something they believe they can control by making good choices. Such beliefs lead to good choices.
Of course, it's possible your professor does not want to discuss your grades because they do not know what they are.
Regardless of the reasons, it is unlikely your professor is required to provide grades before the end of the course.
answered 9 hours ago
Anonymous PhysicistAnonymous Physicist
19.8k83979
19.8k83979
2
the locus of control theory implies that students should not know how well they are doing. I never heard of this theory before but I strongly suspect it implies no such thing. Students need to know how well they‘re doing for entirely practical reasons having to do with prioritizing competing tasks. If a student is taking several classes and has limited time to study, it‘s rational, desirable and healthy for them to make decisions about how to allocate their study time between the different classes to optimize the overall grade distribution. To do that, they need to know their grades. Simple.
– Dan Romik
2 hours ago
1
@DanRomik I don't believe that optimizing grades is a good goal. That goal leads to selecting courses that require the least learning. Students would be wiser to optimise their actual learning directly, rather than using grades as a low quality proxy.
– Anonymous Physicist
2 hours ago
2
In an ideal world, I suppose you’re right. In the actual world where failing a class can result in losing a fellowship, getting kicked out of school, even losing your visa and having to leave the country and other bad consequences, and where the difference between an A and an A- can mean not getting into your grad school of choice, the system essentially forces students to solve such optimization problems all the time as a survival strategy. You may not like that the system works that way, but it does, so I don’t think withholding grade information from students is a viable approach.
– Dan Romik
2 hours ago
1
@DanRomik Exactly. It's actually worse than that: the students whose learning benefits most from having regular, consistent feedback overlaps heavily with the students from marginalized demographics, which also overlaps heavily with the students who have the most on the line with good grades. I personally believe that this is one of the common, unquestioned practices in STEM that contributes to keeping it heavily white and male.
– Elizabeth Henning
2 hours ago
1
@ElizabethHenning good point. But can you clarify what specifically is the “common, unquestioned practice” that you’re referring to?
– Dan Romik
2 hours ago
|
show 12 more comments
2
the locus of control theory implies that students should not know how well they are doing. I never heard of this theory before but I strongly suspect it implies no such thing. Students need to know how well they‘re doing for entirely practical reasons having to do with prioritizing competing tasks. If a student is taking several classes and has limited time to study, it‘s rational, desirable and healthy for them to make decisions about how to allocate their study time between the different classes to optimize the overall grade distribution. To do that, they need to know their grades. Simple.
– Dan Romik
2 hours ago
1
@DanRomik I don't believe that optimizing grades is a good goal. That goal leads to selecting courses that require the least learning. Students would be wiser to optimise their actual learning directly, rather than using grades as a low quality proxy.
– Anonymous Physicist
2 hours ago
2
In an ideal world, I suppose you’re right. In the actual world where failing a class can result in losing a fellowship, getting kicked out of school, even losing your visa and having to leave the country and other bad consequences, and where the difference between an A and an A- can mean not getting into your grad school of choice, the system essentially forces students to solve such optimization problems all the time as a survival strategy. You may not like that the system works that way, but it does, so I don’t think withholding grade information from students is a viable approach.
– Dan Romik
2 hours ago
1
@DanRomik Exactly. It's actually worse than that: the students whose learning benefits most from having regular, consistent feedback overlaps heavily with the students from marginalized demographics, which also overlaps heavily with the students who have the most on the line with good grades. I personally believe that this is one of the common, unquestioned practices in STEM that contributes to keeping it heavily white and male.
– Elizabeth Henning
2 hours ago
1
@ElizabethHenning good point. But can you clarify what specifically is the “common, unquestioned practice” that you’re referring to?
– Dan Romik
2 hours ago
2
2
the locus of control theory implies that students should not know how well they are doing. I never heard of this theory before but I strongly suspect it implies no such thing. Students need to know how well they‘re doing for entirely practical reasons having to do with prioritizing competing tasks. If a student is taking several classes and has limited time to study, it‘s rational, desirable and healthy for them to make decisions about how to allocate their study time between the different classes to optimize the overall grade distribution. To do that, they need to know their grades. Simple.
– Dan Romik
2 hours ago
the locus of control theory implies that students should not know how well they are doing. I never heard of this theory before but I strongly suspect it implies no such thing. Students need to know how well they‘re doing for entirely practical reasons having to do with prioritizing competing tasks. If a student is taking several classes and has limited time to study, it‘s rational, desirable and healthy for them to make decisions about how to allocate their study time between the different classes to optimize the overall grade distribution. To do that, they need to know their grades. Simple.
– Dan Romik
2 hours ago
1
1
@DanRomik I don't believe that optimizing grades is a good goal. That goal leads to selecting courses that require the least learning. Students would be wiser to optimise their actual learning directly, rather than using grades as a low quality proxy.
– Anonymous Physicist
2 hours ago
@DanRomik I don't believe that optimizing grades is a good goal. That goal leads to selecting courses that require the least learning. Students would be wiser to optimise their actual learning directly, rather than using grades as a low quality proxy.
– Anonymous Physicist
2 hours ago
2
2
In an ideal world, I suppose you’re right. In the actual world where failing a class can result in losing a fellowship, getting kicked out of school, even losing your visa and having to leave the country and other bad consequences, and where the difference between an A and an A- can mean not getting into your grad school of choice, the system essentially forces students to solve such optimization problems all the time as a survival strategy. You may not like that the system works that way, but it does, so I don’t think withholding grade information from students is a viable approach.
– Dan Romik
2 hours ago
In an ideal world, I suppose you’re right. In the actual world where failing a class can result in losing a fellowship, getting kicked out of school, even losing your visa and having to leave the country and other bad consequences, and where the difference between an A and an A- can mean not getting into your grad school of choice, the system essentially forces students to solve such optimization problems all the time as a survival strategy. You may not like that the system works that way, but it does, so I don’t think withholding grade information from students is a viable approach.
– Dan Romik
2 hours ago
1
1
@DanRomik Exactly. It's actually worse than that: the students whose learning benefits most from having regular, consistent feedback overlaps heavily with the students from marginalized demographics, which also overlaps heavily with the students who have the most on the line with good grades. I personally believe that this is one of the common, unquestioned practices in STEM that contributes to keeping it heavily white and male.
– Elizabeth Henning
2 hours ago
@DanRomik Exactly. It's actually worse than that: the students whose learning benefits most from having regular, consistent feedback overlaps heavily with the students from marginalized demographics, which also overlaps heavily with the students who have the most on the line with good grades. I personally believe that this is one of the common, unquestioned practices in STEM that contributes to keeping it heavily white and male.
– Elizabeth Henning
2 hours ago
1
1
@ElizabethHenning good point. But can you clarify what specifically is the “common, unquestioned practice” that you’re referring to?
– Dan Romik
2 hours ago
@ElizabethHenning good point. But can you clarify what specifically is the “common, unquestioned practice” that you’re referring to?
– Dan Romik
2 hours ago
|
show 12 more comments
I've actually seen this a lot, and I think it's completely reprehensible. The reasoning is ostensibly that the only "grade" is the final grade, which cannot be accurately determined until after the final exam.
Unfortunately, you're not going to get anywhere with this instructor trying to get her to budge on this. You might have more luck with asking her a more noncommittal question, such as "How am I doing in the course?" or by asking her for advice about how you can do better (even if you're already doing well).
As someone who's TA'd for professors with this ridiculous policy, I can tell you that badgering the TA won't help. The TA doesn't know either. Really.
add a comment |
I've actually seen this a lot, and I think it's completely reprehensible. The reasoning is ostensibly that the only "grade" is the final grade, which cannot be accurately determined until after the final exam.
Unfortunately, you're not going to get anywhere with this instructor trying to get her to budge on this. You might have more luck with asking her a more noncommittal question, such as "How am I doing in the course?" or by asking her for advice about how you can do better (even if you're already doing well).
As someone who's TA'd for professors with this ridiculous policy, I can tell you that badgering the TA won't help. The TA doesn't know either. Really.
add a comment |
I've actually seen this a lot, and I think it's completely reprehensible. The reasoning is ostensibly that the only "grade" is the final grade, which cannot be accurately determined until after the final exam.
Unfortunately, you're not going to get anywhere with this instructor trying to get her to budge on this. You might have more luck with asking her a more noncommittal question, such as "How am I doing in the course?" or by asking her for advice about how you can do better (even if you're already doing well).
As someone who's TA'd for professors with this ridiculous policy, I can tell you that badgering the TA won't help. The TA doesn't know either. Really.
I've actually seen this a lot, and I think it's completely reprehensible. The reasoning is ostensibly that the only "grade" is the final grade, which cannot be accurately determined until after the final exam.
Unfortunately, you're not going to get anywhere with this instructor trying to get her to budge on this. You might have more luck with asking her a more noncommittal question, such as "How am I doing in the course?" or by asking her for advice about how you can do better (even if you're already doing well).
As someone who's TA'd for professors with this ridiculous policy, I can tell you that badgering the TA won't help. The TA doesn't know either. Really.
answered 4 hours ago
Elizabeth HenningElizabeth Henning
5,53411032
5,53411032
add a comment |
add a comment |
Personally I think an instructor ought to maintain a running grade count, but it is conceivable that one might not. Might only do the data entry and calculation at the end. Or maybe wants to retain ability to finesse the grades a bit (will only be done in your favor unless a snake, though).
I doubt there is a policy requiring the prof to give interim grading instruction, but of course you could check. There is a big difference between "required" and optimal.
For what it is worth, I went to a school that had formal, published interim grades every 4 weeks, during 16 week semesters. Most people hated this more than like it since it could create academic sanctions...
New contributor
add a comment |
Personally I think an instructor ought to maintain a running grade count, but it is conceivable that one might not. Might only do the data entry and calculation at the end. Or maybe wants to retain ability to finesse the grades a bit (will only be done in your favor unless a snake, though).
I doubt there is a policy requiring the prof to give interim grading instruction, but of course you could check. There is a big difference between "required" and optimal.
For what it is worth, I went to a school that had formal, published interim grades every 4 weeks, during 16 week semesters. Most people hated this more than like it since it could create academic sanctions...
New contributor
add a comment |
Personally I think an instructor ought to maintain a running grade count, but it is conceivable that one might not. Might only do the data entry and calculation at the end. Or maybe wants to retain ability to finesse the grades a bit (will only be done in your favor unless a snake, though).
I doubt there is a policy requiring the prof to give interim grading instruction, but of course you could check. There is a big difference between "required" and optimal.
For what it is worth, I went to a school that had formal, published interim grades every 4 weeks, during 16 week semesters. Most people hated this more than like it since it could create academic sanctions...
New contributor
Personally I think an instructor ought to maintain a running grade count, but it is conceivable that one might not. Might only do the data entry and calculation at the end. Or maybe wants to retain ability to finesse the grades a bit (will only be done in your favor unless a snake, though).
I doubt there is a policy requiring the prof to give interim grading instruction, but of course you could check. There is a big difference between "required" and optimal.
For what it is worth, I went to a school that had formal, published interim grades every 4 weeks, during 16 week semesters. Most people hated this more than like it since it could create academic sanctions...
New contributor
New contributor
answered 8 hours ago
guestguest
412
412
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
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6
This is sufficiently odd that I've never heard of such a policy. Have you checked the syllabus to see exactly how the policy is stated? This is reasonable if it is of the form "I am not going to calculate a provisional grade for you - you have all the grades you've gotten on assignments and can calculate it on your own". Some courses also don't even have provisional grades, only the grade from the final exam. We'll need to know a bit more to be able to advise you.
– BrianH
10 hours ago
2
Some universities require that the grading policies be laid out in advance (e.g.: 40% final, 30% homework, 30% project). If you actually have the assignments you've done, you might be able to compute this for yourself. Other universities have no such regulation, in which case you might be stuck.
– Peter Shor
9 hours ago
1
If you want to know what is "allowed" you'll have to consult your university's own regulations. There is no universal set of laws for education.
– Nate Eldredge
9 hours ago
2
@NateEldredge that would be really annoying to me. Undergraduates should not need help checking their arithmetic.
– Anonymous Physicist
9 hours ago
3
@solarmike I view this as a question about pedagogical technique, which is definitely on topic.
– Anonymous Physicist
9 hours ago