Why is the inverse of an average of numbers not the same as the average of the inverse of those same numbers?
$begingroup$
I have a set of numbers (in my case: mean retention time (MRT) in the stomach (h)) of which I want to calculate the average gastric passage rate (/h). Gastric passage rate = 1/MRT.
My question is why 'the average of the calculated gastric passage rates of those numbers' is not the same as 'the calculated gastric passage rate of the averaged MRTs'. The next question is: what is the right way?
So for example:
$x = 5; 10; 4; 2.$ Average $= 5.25 h Rightarrow 1/5.25 = 0.19$/h
$1/x = 0.2; 0.1; 0.25; 0.5.$ Average $= 0.26$/h
So should I first take the average of the MRTs and then take the inverse for calculating the gastric passage rate (first way) or should I first take the inverse of all numbers for calculating the gastric passage rates and then take the average of that number (second way).
Thanks in advance!
inverse average
New contributor
$endgroup$
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
I have a set of numbers (in my case: mean retention time (MRT) in the stomach (h)) of which I want to calculate the average gastric passage rate (/h). Gastric passage rate = 1/MRT.
My question is why 'the average of the calculated gastric passage rates of those numbers' is not the same as 'the calculated gastric passage rate of the averaged MRTs'. The next question is: what is the right way?
So for example:
$x = 5; 10; 4; 2.$ Average $= 5.25 h Rightarrow 1/5.25 = 0.19$/h
$1/x = 0.2; 0.1; 0.25; 0.5.$ Average $= 0.26$/h
So should I first take the average of the MRTs and then take the inverse for calculating the gastric passage rate (first way) or should I first take the inverse of all numbers for calculating the gastric passage rates and then take the average of that number (second way).
Thanks in advance!
inverse average
New contributor
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Welcome the Mathematics Stack Exchange community. A quick tour of the site will help you get the most of your time here. For typesetting your equations, please use MathJax. Here is a great reference.
$endgroup$
– dantopa
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Cf. Wikipedia article about harmonic mean
$endgroup$
– J. W. Tanner
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Putting on your socks and then putting on your shoes isn't the same as putting on your shoes and then putting on your socks. Buying auto insurance and then crashing your car isn't the same as crashing your car and then buying insurance. Why should averaging numbers and then inverting the averages be the same as inverting numbers and then averaging the inverses? The order in which you do things matters, in life and in arithmetic.
$endgroup$
– Gerry Myerson
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Okay well, I am very sorry for my stupid question... Why would you even respond with such an answer? This doesn't help at all. I know it matters in which way you calculate them, I am just asking what is the right way.
$endgroup$
– Nena
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Welcome to MSE! I hope you realise that responses here are given by volunteers. Your abrupt (some might call it rude) response to Gerry is not likely to encourage others to try to help you. Also, your comment is factually incorrect. You are not just asking what is the right way. You are also asking, both in the title and in the second paragraph, "why is $langle$this$rangle$ not equal to $langle$that$rangle$". That's the question that Gerry tried to answer. Even if you don't think he helped successfully, please show some courtesy regarding his willingness to help.
$endgroup$
– David
2 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
I have a set of numbers (in my case: mean retention time (MRT) in the stomach (h)) of which I want to calculate the average gastric passage rate (/h). Gastric passage rate = 1/MRT.
My question is why 'the average of the calculated gastric passage rates of those numbers' is not the same as 'the calculated gastric passage rate of the averaged MRTs'. The next question is: what is the right way?
So for example:
$x = 5; 10; 4; 2.$ Average $= 5.25 h Rightarrow 1/5.25 = 0.19$/h
$1/x = 0.2; 0.1; 0.25; 0.5.$ Average $= 0.26$/h
So should I first take the average of the MRTs and then take the inverse for calculating the gastric passage rate (first way) or should I first take the inverse of all numbers for calculating the gastric passage rates and then take the average of that number (second way).
Thanks in advance!
inverse average
New contributor
$endgroup$
I have a set of numbers (in my case: mean retention time (MRT) in the stomach (h)) of which I want to calculate the average gastric passage rate (/h). Gastric passage rate = 1/MRT.
My question is why 'the average of the calculated gastric passage rates of those numbers' is not the same as 'the calculated gastric passage rate of the averaged MRTs'. The next question is: what is the right way?
So for example:
$x = 5; 10; 4; 2.$ Average $= 5.25 h Rightarrow 1/5.25 = 0.19$/h
$1/x = 0.2; 0.1; 0.25; 0.5.$ Average $= 0.26$/h
So should I first take the average of the MRTs and then take the inverse for calculating the gastric passage rate (first way) or should I first take the inverse of all numbers for calculating the gastric passage rates and then take the average of that number (second way).
Thanks in advance!
inverse average
inverse average
New contributor
New contributor
edited 1 hour ago
YuiTo Cheng
1,205525
1,205525
New contributor
asked 10 hours ago
NenaNena
212
212
New contributor
New contributor
1
$begingroup$
Welcome the Mathematics Stack Exchange community. A quick tour of the site will help you get the most of your time here. For typesetting your equations, please use MathJax. Here is a great reference.
$endgroup$
– dantopa
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Cf. Wikipedia article about harmonic mean
$endgroup$
– J. W. Tanner
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Putting on your socks and then putting on your shoes isn't the same as putting on your shoes and then putting on your socks. Buying auto insurance and then crashing your car isn't the same as crashing your car and then buying insurance. Why should averaging numbers and then inverting the averages be the same as inverting numbers and then averaging the inverses? The order in which you do things matters, in life and in arithmetic.
$endgroup$
– Gerry Myerson
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Okay well, I am very sorry for my stupid question... Why would you even respond with such an answer? This doesn't help at all. I know it matters in which way you calculate them, I am just asking what is the right way.
$endgroup$
– Nena
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Welcome to MSE! I hope you realise that responses here are given by volunteers. Your abrupt (some might call it rude) response to Gerry is not likely to encourage others to try to help you. Also, your comment is factually incorrect. You are not just asking what is the right way. You are also asking, both in the title and in the second paragraph, "why is $langle$this$rangle$ not equal to $langle$that$rangle$". That's the question that Gerry tried to answer. Even if you don't think he helped successfully, please show some courtesy regarding his willingness to help.
$endgroup$
– David
2 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
1
$begingroup$
Welcome the Mathematics Stack Exchange community. A quick tour of the site will help you get the most of your time here. For typesetting your equations, please use MathJax. Here is a great reference.
$endgroup$
– dantopa
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Cf. Wikipedia article about harmonic mean
$endgroup$
– J. W. Tanner
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Putting on your socks and then putting on your shoes isn't the same as putting on your shoes and then putting on your socks. Buying auto insurance and then crashing your car isn't the same as crashing your car and then buying insurance. Why should averaging numbers and then inverting the averages be the same as inverting numbers and then averaging the inverses? The order in which you do things matters, in life and in arithmetic.
$endgroup$
– Gerry Myerson
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Okay well, I am very sorry for my stupid question... Why would you even respond with such an answer? This doesn't help at all. I know it matters in which way you calculate them, I am just asking what is the right way.
$endgroup$
– Nena
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Welcome to MSE! I hope you realise that responses here are given by volunteers. Your abrupt (some might call it rude) response to Gerry is not likely to encourage others to try to help you. Also, your comment is factually incorrect. You are not just asking what is the right way. You are also asking, both in the title and in the second paragraph, "why is $langle$this$rangle$ not equal to $langle$that$rangle$". That's the question that Gerry tried to answer. Even if you don't think he helped successfully, please show some courtesy regarding his willingness to help.
$endgroup$
– David
2 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Welcome the Mathematics Stack Exchange community. A quick tour of the site will help you get the most of your time here. For typesetting your equations, please use MathJax. Here is a great reference.
$endgroup$
– dantopa
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Welcome the Mathematics Stack Exchange community. A quick tour of the site will help you get the most of your time here. For typesetting your equations, please use MathJax. Here is a great reference.
$endgroup$
– dantopa
9 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Cf. Wikipedia article about harmonic mean
$endgroup$
– J. W. Tanner
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Cf. Wikipedia article about harmonic mean
$endgroup$
– J. W. Tanner
9 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Putting on your socks and then putting on your shoes isn't the same as putting on your shoes and then putting on your socks. Buying auto insurance and then crashing your car isn't the same as crashing your car and then buying insurance. Why should averaging numbers and then inverting the averages be the same as inverting numbers and then averaging the inverses? The order in which you do things matters, in life and in arithmetic.
$endgroup$
– Gerry Myerson
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Putting on your socks and then putting on your shoes isn't the same as putting on your shoes and then putting on your socks. Buying auto insurance and then crashing your car isn't the same as crashing your car and then buying insurance. Why should averaging numbers and then inverting the averages be the same as inverting numbers and then averaging the inverses? The order in which you do things matters, in life and in arithmetic.
$endgroup$
– Gerry Myerson
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Okay well, I am very sorry for my stupid question... Why would you even respond with such an answer? This doesn't help at all. I know it matters in which way you calculate them, I am just asking what is the right way.
$endgroup$
– Nena
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Okay well, I am very sorry for my stupid question... Why would you even respond with such an answer? This doesn't help at all. I know it matters in which way you calculate them, I am just asking what is the right way.
$endgroup$
– Nena
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Welcome to MSE! I hope you realise that responses here are given by volunteers. Your abrupt (some might call it rude) response to Gerry is not likely to encourage others to try to help you. Also, your comment is factually incorrect. You are not just asking what is the right way. You are also asking, both in the title and in the second paragraph, "why is $langle$this$rangle$ not equal to $langle$that$rangle$". That's the question that Gerry tried to answer. Even if you don't think he helped successfully, please show some courtesy regarding his willingness to help.
$endgroup$
– David
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Welcome to MSE! I hope you realise that responses here are given by volunteers. Your abrupt (some might call it rude) response to Gerry is not likely to encourage others to try to help you. Also, your comment is factually incorrect. You are not just asking what is the right way. You are also asking, both in the title and in the second paragraph, "why is $langle$this$rangle$ not equal to $langle$that$rangle$". That's the question that Gerry tried to answer. Even if you don't think he helped successfully, please show some courtesy regarding his willingness to help.
$endgroup$
– David
2 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Here's an everyday puzzle that may help.
If you travel from here to there at $30$ miles per hour and back at $60$ miles per hour, what is your average speed? Instinct says it should be the average, which would be $45$ miles per hour.
But speed is (total distance)/(total time). You don't have a distance given, but you can make one up. Suppose your destination was $60$ miles away. Then it took you $2$ hours to get there and $1$ to get back. You drove $120$ miles in $3$ hours so your average speed was $40$ miles per hour.
The moral of the story is that you can't naively average averages, and a rate is an average. So be careful when you have to compute an average rate.
In your case your MRT is like the reciprocal of the speed, whose units are hours/mile. In my example those are $2$ hours per $60$ miles for the slow trip and $1$ hour per $60$ miles mile for the fast return. You can average those to get the average number of hours per mile. The average is $1.5$ hours per $60$ miles. The reciprocal is $60$ miles per $1.5$ hours, or $40$ miles per hour.
So this is right:
take the average of the MRTs and then take the inverse for
calculating the gastric passage rate (first way)
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
So this would actually say that I first have to sum all the values of the MRTs and then take the inverse? Because the other comment from "Servaes" says the opposite.
$endgroup$
– Nena
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Maybe it is important to say that all the values refer to different published studies. So they are independent of each other. Study A found a MRT of 4 h, study B found a MRT of 5 h, etc. and then I want to have an average number for the gastric passage rate of all those studies, which you can calculate by taking the inverse of the MRT. So I understand your example, but I have the idea that it does not apply for my case (?)
$endgroup$
– Nena
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Nena See my edit.
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
5 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Thank you for your edit! But why is MRT the reciprocal of the speed? The MRT is expressed in hours. It is just the retention time in the stomach and the gastric passage rate (GPR) is the inverse of that, so 1/MRT is the fraction of nutrients that is leaving the stomach (/h). I understand that you cannot average averages, but the passage rate is just the inverse of the MRT, so they are related, it is not an average number or am I wrong?
$endgroup$
– Nena
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Your comment led me reread the question and then @j-g 's answer. I think that's the right one. My answer is based on the assumption that 1/MRT is a rate with units stuff per hour. But more likely it's the rate constant in an exponential decay model and it's a fraction per hour.
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
2 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
You've encountered a phenomenon called the AM-HM inequality, $frac{1}{n}sum_{i=1}^n x_igefrac{n}{sum_{i=1}^nfrac{1}{x_i}}$ for $x_i>0$, with equality iff all $x_i$ are equal. In general, functions don't commute with taking expectations; this is the example with the function $1/x$.
What you do with your data depends on what form you assume the distribution of retention times has. For example, suppose you think it has an Exponential distribution, with rate parameter $lambda$. The fact that $1/lambda$ is the MRT is then $1/lambda=int_0^inftylambda xexp (-lambda x)mathrm{d}x$. I don't advise trying to estimate $lambda$ from averaged reciprocals, since $int_0^inftyfrac{lambda}{x}exp (-lambda x)mathrm{d}x$ is infinite.
Let's suppose for the sake of argument that we estimate $1/lambda$ as the dataset's mean retention time. This is an example of the method of moments. It can be shown maximum likelihood estimation would recommend the same estimator. Pages 3 and 4 here discuss what happens with Bayesian estimation, and it comes to much the same thing for a large sample size. So if I were you, I'd estimate $1/lambda$ as the mean GPR.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Unfortunately, I am a student with basic math skills and I do not understand the last part of your answer, but the relationship you describe above (this > that) is actually the other way around for my dataset (this < that). Could you try to explain it a bit more easily for me? Maybe a bit more explanation helps. The MRT is estimated based on the T50 (50% of recovery) of a marker following the digesta in the gut. The graph of "%recovery (cumulative) x time" follows a sigmoid function. So the T50 is assumed to be equal to the MRT and mean is assumed to be equal to the median.
$endgroup$
– Nena
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Given some positive values $x_1$, ..., $x_n$, their average is
$$frac{x_1+cdots+x_n}{n}=frac{1}{n}sum_{i=1}^nx_i,$$
and its inverse is
$$frac{1}{frac{1}{n}sum_{i=1}^nx_i}=frac{n}{sum_{i=1}^nx_i}.tag{1}$$
On the other hand, the average of the inverses is
$$frac{frac{1}{x_1}+cdots+frac{1}{x_n}}{n}=frac{1}{n}sum_{i=1}^nfrac{1}{x_i}tag{2}.$$
In general, these two expressions are not the same, as your calculations also show.
I wrote an incorrect and confusing bit here, after reading the question properly (and giving it some thought) I fully support @Ethan Bolkers answer.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thank you for your comment! If I divide the sum of all gastric passage rates by the total number of hours, it even gives a third different solution.. So I am actually still not sure what is the right thing to do. The unit of MRT is h and the unit of passage rate is /h (just inverse of MRT). So if I sum all the passage rate and divide it by total hours, then I divide (/h) by (h), which does not make sense for me.
$endgroup$
– Nena
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Ah good point! I was a bit unclear on this part; you divide by the total number things you are taking the average of. It just so happens that you have one measurement per hour (it seems?), so this is the same as the total number of hours. But you are dividing by a unitless number; the number of data points. I have edited to avoid confusion.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
It's just that several studies found a MRT, like Study A found a MRT of 5 h, Study B found a MRT of 10 h, Study C found a MRT of 4 h, etc. Then I want to calculate the average passage rate (which is 1/MRT) of all these values. So I don't understand what you mean with 'one measurement per hour'.. Also you say second calculation and Ethan says first one, so now I am even more confused XD
$endgroup$
– Nena
4 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Yes I know that is what you meant :) But I do not understand why. And again: someone else is saying the opposite, so how do I know what is right..
$endgroup$
– Nena
4 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
I have read your question again, and took the time to understand it properly this time. Ethan Bolkers answer is correct, and I certainly could not phrase it any better than he already has.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
3 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Nena is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3107661%2fwhy-is-the-inverse-of-an-average-of-numbers-not-the-same-as-the-average-of-the-i%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Here's an everyday puzzle that may help.
If you travel from here to there at $30$ miles per hour and back at $60$ miles per hour, what is your average speed? Instinct says it should be the average, which would be $45$ miles per hour.
But speed is (total distance)/(total time). You don't have a distance given, but you can make one up. Suppose your destination was $60$ miles away. Then it took you $2$ hours to get there and $1$ to get back. You drove $120$ miles in $3$ hours so your average speed was $40$ miles per hour.
The moral of the story is that you can't naively average averages, and a rate is an average. So be careful when you have to compute an average rate.
In your case your MRT is like the reciprocal of the speed, whose units are hours/mile. In my example those are $2$ hours per $60$ miles for the slow trip and $1$ hour per $60$ miles mile for the fast return. You can average those to get the average number of hours per mile. The average is $1.5$ hours per $60$ miles. The reciprocal is $60$ miles per $1.5$ hours, or $40$ miles per hour.
So this is right:
take the average of the MRTs and then take the inverse for
calculating the gastric passage rate (first way)
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
So this would actually say that I first have to sum all the values of the MRTs and then take the inverse? Because the other comment from "Servaes" says the opposite.
$endgroup$
– Nena
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Maybe it is important to say that all the values refer to different published studies. So they are independent of each other. Study A found a MRT of 4 h, study B found a MRT of 5 h, etc. and then I want to have an average number for the gastric passage rate of all those studies, which you can calculate by taking the inverse of the MRT. So I understand your example, but I have the idea that it does not apply for my case (?)
$endgroup$
– Nena
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Nena See my edit.
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
5 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Thank you for your edit! But why is MRT the reciprocal of the speed? The MRT is expressed in hours. It is just the retention time in the stomach and the gastric passage rate (GPR) is the inverse of that, so 1/MRT is the fraction of nutrients that is leaving the stomach (/h). I understand that you cannot average averages, but the passage rate is just the inverse of the MRT, so they are related, it is not an average number or am I wrong?
$endgroup$
– Nena
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Your comment led me reread the question and then @j-g 's answer. I think that's the right one. My answer is based on the assumption that 1/MRT is a rate with units stuff per hour. But more likely it's the rate constant in an exponential decay model and it's a fraction per hour.
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
2 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Here's an everyday puzzle that may help.
If you travel from here to there at $30$ miles per hour and back at $60$ miles per hour, what is your average speed? Instinct says it should be the average, which would be $45$ miles per hour.
But speed is (total distance)/(total time). You don't have a distance given, but you can make one up. Suppose your destination was $60$ miles away. Then it took you $2$ hours to get there and $1$ to get back. You drove $120$ miles in $3$ hours so your average speed was $40$ miles per hour.
The moral of the story is that you can't naively average averages, and a rate is an average. So be careful when you have to compute an average rate.
In your case your MRT is like the reciprocal of the speed, whose units are hours/mile. In my example those are $2$ hours per $60$ miles for the slow trip and $1$ hour per $60$ miles mile for the fast return. You can average those to get the average number of hours per mile. The average is $1.5$ hours per $60$ miles. The reciprocal is $60$ miles per $1.5$ hours, or $40$ miles per hour.
So this is right:
take the average of the MRTs and then take the inverse for
calculating the gastric passage rate (first way)
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
So this would actually say that I first have to sum all the values of the MRTs and then take the inverse? Because the other comment from "Servaes" says the opposite.
$endgroup$
– Nena
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Maybe it is important to say that all the values refer to different published studies. So they are independent of each other. Study A found a MRT of 4 h, study B found a MRT of 5 h, etc. and then I want to have an average number for the gastric passage rate of all those studies, which you can calculate by taking the inverse of the MRT. So I understand your example, but I have the idea that it does not apply for my case (?)
$endgroup$
– Nena
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Nena See my edit.
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
5 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Thank you for your edit! But why is MRT the reciprocal of the speed? The MRT is expressed in hours. It is just the retention time in the stomach and the gastric passage rate (GPR) is the inverse of that, so 1/MRT is the fraction of nutrients that is leaving the stomach (/h). I understand that you cannot average averages, but the passage rate is just the inverse of the MRT, so they are related, it is not an average number or am I wrong?
$endgroup$
– Nena
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Your comment led me reread the question and then @j-g 's answer. I think that's the right one. My answer is based on the assumption that 1/MRT is a rate with units stuff per hour. But more likely it's the rate constant in an exponential decay model and it's a fraction per hour.
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
2 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Here's an everyday puzzle that may help.
If you travel from here to there at $30$ miles per hour and back at $60$ miles per hour, what is your average speed? Instinct says it should be the average, which would be $45$ miles per hour.
But speed is (total distance)/(total time). You don't have a distance given, but you can make one up. Suppose your destination was $60$ miles away. Then it took you $2$ hours to get there and $1$ to get back. You drove $120$ miles in $3$ hours so your average speed was $40$ miles per hour.
The moral of the story is that you can't naively average averages, and a rate is an average. So be careful when you have to compute an average rate.
In your case your MRT is like the reciprocal of the speed, whose units are hours/mile. In my example those are $2$ hours per $60$ miles for the slow trip and $1$ hour per $60$ miles mile for the fast return. You can average those to get the average number of hours per mile. The average is $1.5$ hours per $60$ miles. The reciprocal is $60$ miles per $1.5$ hours, or $40$ miles per hour.
So this is right:
take the average of the MRTs and then take the inverse for
calculating the gastric passage rate (first way)
$endgroup$
Here's an everyday puzzle that may help.
If you travel from here to there at $30$ miles per hour and back at $60$ miles per hour, what is your average speed? Instinct says it should be the average, which would be $45$ miles per hour.
But speed is (total distance)/(total time). You don't have a distance given, but you can make one up. Suppose your destination was $60$ miles away. Then it took you $2$ hours to get there and $1$ to get back. You drove $120$ miles in $3$ hours so your average speed was $40$ miles per hour.
The moral of the story is that you can't naively average averages, and a rate is an average. So be careful when you have to compute an average rate.
In your case your MRT is like the reciprocal of the speed, whose units are hours/mile. In my example those are $2$ hours per $60$ miles for the slow trip and $1$ hour per $60$ miles mile for the fast return. You can average those to get the average number of hours per mile. The average is $1.5$ hours per $60$ miles. The reciprocal is $60$ miles per $1.5$ hours, or $40$ miles per hour.
So this is right:
take the average of the MRTs and then take the inverse for
calculating the gastric passage rate (first way)
edited 5 hours ago
answered 9 hours ago
Ethan BolkerEthan Bolker
42.8k549113
42.8k549113
$begingroup$
So this would actually say that I first have to sum all the values of the MRTs and then take the inverse? Because the other comment from "Servaes" says the opposite.
$endgroup$
– Nena
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Maybe it is important to say that all the values refer to different published studies. So they are independent of each other. Study A found a MRT of 4 h, study B found a MRT of 5 h, etc. and then I want to have an average number for the gastric passage rate of all those studies, which you can calculate by taking the inverse of the MRT. So I understand your example, but I have the idea that it does not apply for my case (?)
$endgroup$
– Nena
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Nena See my edit.
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
5 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Thank you for your edit! But why is MRT the reciprocal of the speed? The MRT is expressed in hours. It is just the retention time in the stomach and the gastric passage rate (GPR) is the inverse of that, so 1/MRT is the fraction of nutrients that is leaving the stomach (/h). I understand that you cannot average averages, but the passage rate is just the inverse of the MRT, so they are related, it is not an average number or am I wrong?
$endgroup$
– Nena
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Your comment led me reread the question and then @j-g 's answer. I think that's the right one. My answer is based on the assumption that 1/MRT is a rate with units stuff per hour. But more likely it's the rate constant in an exponential decay model and it's a fraction per hour.
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
2 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
So this would actually say that I first have to sum all the values of the MRTs and then take the inverse? Because the other comment from "Servaes" says the opposite.
$endgroup$
– Nena
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Maybe it is important to say that all the values refer to different published studies. So they are independent of each other. Study A found a MRT of 4 h, study B found a MRT of 5 h, etc. and then I want to have an average number for the gastric passage rate of all those studies, which you can calculate by taking the inverse of the MRT. So I understand your example, but I have the idea that it does not apply for my case (?)
$endgroup$
– Nena
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Nena See my edit.
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
5 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Thank you for your edit! But why is MRT the reciprocal of the speed? The MRT is expressed in hours. It is just the retention time in the stomach and the gastric passage rate (GPR) is the inverse of that, so 1/MRT is the fraction of nutrients that is leaving the stomach (/h). I understand that you cannot average averages, but the passage rate is just the inverse of the MRT, so they are related, it is not an average number or am I wrong?
$endgroup$
– Nena
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Your comment led me reread the question and then @j-g 's answer. I think that's the right one. My answer is based on the assumption that 1/MRT is a rate with units stuff per hour. But more likely it's the rate constant in an exponential decay model and it's a fraction per hour.
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
So this would actually say that I first have to sum all the values of the MRTs and then take the inverse? Because the other comment from "Servaes" says the opposite.
$endgroup$
– Nena
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
So this would actually say that I first have to sum all the values of the MRTs and then take the inverse? Because the other comment from "Servaes" says the opposite.
$endgroup$
– Nena
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Maybe it is important to say that all the values refer to different published studies. So they are independent of each other. Study A found a MRT of 4 h, study B found a MRT of 5 h, etc. and then I want to have an average number for the gastric passage rate of all those studies, which you can calculate by taking the inverse of the MRT. So I understand your example, but I have the idea that it does not apply for my case (?)
$endgroup$
– Nena
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Maybe it is important to say that all the values refer to different published studies. So they are independent of each other. Study A found a MRT of 4 h, study B found a MRT of 5 h, etc. and then I want to have an average number for the gastric passage rate of all those studies, which you can calculate by taking the inverse of the MRT. So I understand your example, but I have the idea that it does not apply for my case (?)
$endgroup$
– Nena
8 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@Nena See my edit.
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Nena See my edit.
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
5 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Thank you for your edit! But why is MRT the reciprocal of the speed? The MRT is expressed in hours. It is just the retention time in the stomach and the gastric passage rate (GPR) is the inverse of that, so 1/MRT is the fraction of nutrients that is leaving the stomach (/h). I understand that you cannot average averages, but the passage rate is just the inverse of the MRT, so they are related, it is not an average number or am I wrong?
$endgroup$
– Nena
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Thank you for your edit! But why is MRT the reciprocal of the speed? The MRT is expressed in hours. It is just the retention time in the stomach and the gastric passage rate (GPR) is the inverse of that, so 1/MRT is the fraction of nutrients that is leaving the stomach (/h). I understand that you cannot average averages, but the passage rate is just the inverse of the MRT, so they are related, it is not an average number or am I wrong?
$endgroup$
– Nena
3 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Your comment led me reread the question and then @j-g 's answer. I think that's the right one. My answer is based on the assumption that 1/MRT is a rate with units stuff per hour. But more likely it's the rate constant in an exponential decay model and it's a fraction per hour.
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Your comment led me reread the question and then @j-g 's answer. I think that's the right one. My answer is based on the assumption that 1/MRT is a rate with units stuff per hour. But more likely it's the rate constant in an exponential decay model and it's a fraction per hour.
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
2 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
You've encountered a phenomenon called the AM-HM inequality, $frac{1}{n}sum_{i=1}^n x_igefrac{n}{sum_{i=1}^nfrac{1}{x_i}}$ for $x_i>0$, with equality iff all $x_i$ are equal. In general, functions don't commute with taking expectations; this is the example with the function $1/x$.
What you do with your data depends on what form you assume the distribution of retention times has. For example, suppose you think it has an Exponential distribution, with rate parameter $lambda$. The fact that $1/lambda$ is the MRT is then $1/lambda=int_0^inftylambda xexp (-lambda x)mathrm{d}x$. I don't advise trying to estimate $lambda$ from averaged reciprocals, since $int_0^inftyfrac{lambda}{x}exp (-lambda x)mathrm{d}x$ is infinite.
Let's suppose for the sake of argument that we estimate $1/lambda$ as the dataset's mean retention time. This is an example of the method of moments. It can be shown maximum likelihood estimation would recommend the same estimator. Pages 3 and 4 here discuss what happens with Bayesian estimation, and it comes to much the same thing for a large sample size. So if I were you, I'd estimate $1/lambda$ as the mean GPR.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Unfortunately, I am a student with basic math skills and I do not understand the last part of your answer, but the relationship you describe above (this > that) is actually the other way around for my dataset (this < that). Could you try to explain it a bit more easily for me? Maybe a bit more explanation helps. The MRT is estimated based on the T50 (50% of recovery) of a marker following the digesta in the gut. The graph of "%recovery (cumulative) x time" follows a sigmoid function. So the T50 is assumed to be equal to the MRT and mean is assumed to be equal to the median.
$endgroup$
– Nena
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You've encountered a phenomenon called the AM-HM inequality, $frac{1}{n}sum_{i=1}^n x_igefrac{n}{sum_{i=1}^nfrac{1}{x_i}}$ for $x_i>0$, with equality iff all $x_i$ are equal. In general, functions don't commute with taking expectations; this is the example with the function $1/x$.
What you do with your data depends on what form you assume the distribution of retention times has. For example, suppose you think it has an Exponential distribution, with rate parameter $lambda$. The fact that $1/lambda$ is the MRT is then $1/lambda=int_0^inftylambda xexp (-lambda x)mathrm{d}x$. I don't advise trying to estimate $lambda$ from averaged reciprocals, since $int_0^inftyfrac{lambda}{x}exp (-lambda x)mathrm{d}x$ is infinite.
Let's suppose for the sake of argument that we estimate $1/lambda$ as the dataset's mean retention time. This is an example of the method of moments. It can be shown maximum likelihood estimation would recommend the same estimator. Pages 3 and 4 here discuss what happens with Bayesian estimation, and it comes to much the same thing for a large sample size. So if I were you, I'd estimate $1/lambda$ as the mean GPR.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Unfortunately, I am a student with basic math skills and I do not understand the last part of your answer, but the relationship you describe above (this > that) is actually the other way around for my dataset (this < that). Could you try to explain it a bit more easily for me? Maybe a bit more explanation helps. The MRT is estimated based on the T50 (50% of recovery) of a marker following the digesta in the gut. The graph of "%recovery (cumulative) x time" follows a sigmoid function. So the T50 is assumed to be equal to the MRT and mean is assumed to be equal to the median.
$endgroup$
– Nena
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You've encountered a phenomenon called the AM-HM inequality, $frac{1}{n}sum_{i=1}^n x_igefrac{n}{sum_{i=1}^nfrac{1}{x_i}}$ for $x_i>0$, with equality iff all $x_i$ are equal. In general, functions don't commute with taking expectations; this is the example with the function $1/x$.
What you do with your data depends on what form you assume the distribution of retention times has. For example, suppose you think it has an Exponential distribution, with rate parameter $lambda$. The fact that $1/lambda$ is the MRT is then $1/lambda=int_0^inftylambda xexp (-lambda x)mathrm{d}x$. I don't advise trying to estimate $lambda$ from averaged reciprocals, since $int_0^inftyfrac{lambda}{x}exp (-lambda x)mathrm{d}x$ is infinite.
Let's suppose for the sake of argument that we estimate $1/lambda$ as the dataset's mean retention time. This is an example of the method of moments. It can be shown maximum likelihood estimation would recommend the same estimator. Pages 3 and 4 here discuss what happens with Bayesian estimation, and it comes to much the same thing for a large sample size. So if I were you, I'd estimate $1/lambda$ as the mean GPR.
$endgroup$
You've encountered a phenomenon called the AM-HM inequality, $frac{1}{n}sum_{i=1}^n x_igefrac{n}{sum_{i=1}^nfrac{1}{x_i}}$ for $x_i>0$, with equality iff all $x_i$ are equal. In general, functions don't commute with taking expectations; this is the example with the function $1/x$.
What you do with your data depends on what form you assume the distribution of retention times has. For example, suppose you think it has an Exponential distribution, with rate parameter $lambda$. The fact that $1/lambda$ is the MRT is then $1/lambda=int_0^inftylambda xexp (-lambda x)mathrm{d}x$. I don't advise trying to estimate $lambda$ from averaged reciprocals, since $int_0^inftyfrac{lambda}{x}exp (-lambda x)mathrm{d}x$ is infinite.
Let's suppose for the sake of argument that we estimate $1/lambda$ as the dataset's mean retention time. This is an example of the method of moments. It can be shown maximum likelihood estimation would recommend the same estimator. Pages 3 and 4 here discuss what happens with Bayesian estimation, and it comes to much the same thing for a large sample size. So if I were you, I'd estimate $1/lambda$ as the mean GPR.
edited 3 hours ago
Botond
5,8082732
5,8082732
answered 9 hours ago
J.G.J.G.
26.1k22539
26.1k22539
$begingroup$
Unfortunately, I am a student with basic math skills and I do not understand the last part of your answer, but the relationship you describe above (this > that) is actually the other way around for my dataset (this < that). Could you try to explain it a bit more easily for me? Maybe a bit more explanation helps. The MRT is estimated based on the T50 (50% of recovery) of a marker following the digesta in the gut. The graph of "%recovery (cumulative) x time" follows a sigmoid function. So the T50 is assumed to be equal to the MRT and mean is assumed to be equal to the median.
$endgroup$
– Nena
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Unfortunately, I am a student with basic math skills and I do not understand the last part of your answer, but the relationship you describe above (this > that) is actually the other way around for my dataset (this < that). Could you try to explain it a bit more easily for me? Maybe a bit more explanation helps. The MRT is estimated based on the T50 (50% of recovery) of a marker following the digesta in the gut. The graph of "%recovery (cumulative) x time" follows a sigmoid function. So the T50 is assumed to be equal to the MRT and mean is assumed to be equal to the median.
$endgroup$
– Nena
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Unfortunately, I am a student with basic math skills and I do not understand the last part of your answer, but the relationship you describe above (this > that) is actually the other way around for my dataset (this < that). Could you try to explain it a bit more easily for me? Maybe a bit more explanation helps. The MRT is estimated based on the T50 (50% of recovery) of a marker following the digesta in the gut. The graph of "%recovery (cumulative) x time" follows a sigmoid function. So the T50 is assumed to be equal to the MRT and mean is assumed to be equal to the median.
$endgroup$
– Nena
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Unfortunately, I am a student with basic math skills and I do not understand the last part of your answer, but the relationship you describe above (this > that) is actually the other way around for my dataset (this < that). Could you try to explain it a bit more easily for me? Maybe a bit more explanation helps. The MRT is estimated based on the T50 (50% of recovery) of a marker following the digesta in the gut. The graph of "%recovery (cumulative) x time" follows a sigmoid function. So the T50 is assumed to be equal to the MRT and mean is assumed to be equal to the median.
$endgroup$
– Nena
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Given some positive values $x_1$, ..., $x_n$, their average is
$$frac{x_1+cdots+x_n}{n}=frac{1}{n}sum_{i=1}^nx_i,$$
and its inverse is
$$frac{1}{frac{1}{n}sum_{i=1}^nx_i}=frac{n}{sum_{i=1}^nx_i}.tag{1}$$
On the other hand, the average of the inverses is
$$frac{frac{1}{x_1}+cdots+frac{1}{x_n}}{n}=frac{1}{n}sum_{i=1}^nfrac{1}{x_i}tag{2}.$$
In general, these two expressions are not the same, as your calculations also show.
I wrote an incorrect and confusing bit here, after reading the question properly (and giving it some thought) I fully support @Ethan Bolkers answer.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thank you for your comment! If I divide the sum of all gastric passage rates by the total number of hours, it even gives a third different solution.. So I am actually still not sure what is the right thing to do. The unit of MRT is h and the unit of passage rate is /h (just inverse of MRT). So if I sum all the passage rate and divide it by total hours, then I divide (/h) by (h), which does not make sense for me.
$endgroup$
– Nena
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Ah good point! I was a bit unclear on this part; you divide by the total number things you are taking the average of. It just so happens that you have one measurement per hour (it seems?), so this is the same as the total number of hours. But you are dividing by a unitless number; the number of data points. I have edited to avoid confusion.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
It's just that several studies found a MRT, like Study A found a MRT of 5 h, Study B found a MRT of 10 h, Study C found a MRT of 4 h, etc. Then I want to calculate the average passage rate (which is 1/MRT) of all these values. So I don't understand what you mean with 'one measurement per hour'.. Also you say second calculation and Ethan says first one, so now I am even more confused XD
$endgroup$
– Nena
4 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Yes I know that is what you meant :) But I do not understand why. And again: someone else is saying the opposite, so how do I know what is right..
$endgroup$
– Nena
4 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
I have read your question again, and took the time to understand it properly this time. Ethan Bolkers answer is correct, and I certainly could not phrase it any better than he already has.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
3 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Given some positive values $x_1$, ..., $x_n$, their average is
$$frac{x_1+cdots+x_n}{n}=frac{1}{n}sum_{i=1}^nx_i,$$
and its inverse is
$$frac{1}{frac{1}{n}sum_{i=1}^nx_i}=frac{n}{sum_{i=1}^nx_i}.tag{1}$$
On the other hand, the average of the inverses is
$$frac{frac{1}{x_1}+cdots+frac{1}{x_n}}{n}=frac{1}{n}sum_{i=1}^nfrac{1}{x_i}tag{2}.$$
In general, these two expressions are not the same, as your calculations also show.
I wrote an incorrect and confusing bit here, after reading the question properly (and giving it some thought) I fully support @Ethan Bolkers answer.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thank you for your comment! If I divide the sum of all gastric passage rates by the total number of hours, it even gives a third different solution.. So I am actually still not sure what is the right thing to do. The unit of MRT is h and the unit of passage rate is /h (just inverse of MRT). So if I sum all the passage rate and divide it by total hours, then I divide (/h) by (h), which does not make sense for me.
$endgroup$
– Nena
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Ah good point! I was a bit unclear on this part; you divide by the total number things you are taking the average of. It just so happens that you have one measurement per hour (it seems?), so this is the same as the total number of hours. But you are dividing by a unitless number; the number of data points. I have edited to avoid confusion.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
It's just that several studies found a MRT, like Study A found a MRT of 5 h, Study B found a MRT of 10 h, Study C found a MRT of 4 h, etc. Then I want to calculate the average passage rate (which is 1/MRT) of all these values. So I don't understand what you mean with 'one measurement per hour'.. Also you say second calculation and Ethan says first one, so now I am even more confused XD
$endgroup$
– Nena
4 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Yes I know that is what you meant :) But I do not understand why. And again: someone else is saying the opposite, so how do I know what is right..
$endgroup$
– Nena
4 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
I have read your question again, and took the time to understand it properly this time. Ethan Bolkers answer is correct, and I certainly could not phrase it any better than he already has.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
3 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Given some positive values $x_1$, ..., $x_n$, their average is
$$frac{x_1+cdots+x_n}{n}=frac{1}{n}sum_{i=1}^nx_i,$$
and its inverse is
$$frac{1}{frac{1}{n}sum_{i=1}^nx_i}=frac{n}{sum_{i=1}^nx_i}.tag{1}$$
On the other hand, the average of the inverses is
$$frac{frac{1}{x_1}+cdots+frac{1}{x_n}}{n}=frac{1}{n}sum_{i=1}^nfrac{1}{x_i}tag{2}.$$
In general, these two expressions are not the same, as your calculations also show.
I wrote an incorrect and confusing bit here, after reading the question properly (and giving it some thought) I fully support @Ethan Bolkers answer.
$endgroup$
Given some positive values $x_1$, ..., $x_n$, their average is
$$frac{x_1+cdots+x_n}{n}=frac{1}{n}sum_{i=1}^nx_i,$$
and its inverse is
$$frac{1}{frac{1}{n}sum_{i=1}^nx_i}=frac{n}{sum_{i=1}^nx_i}.tag{1}$$
On the other hand, the average of the inverses is
$$frac{frac{1}{x_1}+cdots+frac{1}{x_n}}{n}=frac{1}{n}sum_{i=1}^nfrac{1}{x_i}tag{2}.$$
In general, these two expressions are not the same, as your calculations also show.
I wrote an incorrect and confusing bit here, after reading the question properly (and giving it some thought) I fully support @Ethan Bolkers answer.
edited 3 hours ago
answered 9 hours ago
ServaesServaes
24.6k33893
24.6k33893
$begingroup$
Thank you for your comment! If I divide the sum of all gastric passage rates by the total number of hours, it even gives a third different solution.. So I am actually still not sure what is the right thing to do. The unit of MRT is h and the unit of passage rate is /h (just inverse of MRT). So if I sum all the passage rate and divide it by total hours, then I divide (/h) by (h), which does not make sense for me.
$endgroup$
– Nena
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Ah good point! I was a bit unclear on this part; you divide by the total number things you are taking the average of. It just so happens that you have one measurement per hour (it seems?), so this is the same as the total number of hours. But you are dividing by a unitless number; the number of data points. I have edited to avoid confusion.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
It's just that several studies found a MRT, like Study A found a MRT of 5 h, Study B found a MRT of 10 h, Study C found a MRT of 4 h, etc. Then I want to calculate the average passage rate (which is 1/MRT) of all these values. So I don't understand what you mean with 'one measurement per hour'.. Also you say second calculation and Ethan says first one, so now I am even more confused XD
$endgroup$
– Nena
4 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Yes I know that is what you meant :) But I do not understand why. And again: someone else is saying the opposite, so how do I know what is right..
$endgroup$
– Nena
4 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
I have read your question again, and took the time to understand it properly this time. Ethan Bolkers answer is correct, and I certainly could not phrase it any better than he already has.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
3 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Thank you for your comment! If I divide the sum of all gastric passage rates by the total number of hours, it even gives a third different solution.. So I am actually still not sure what is the right thing to do. The unit of MRT is h and the unit of passage rate is /h (just inverse of MRT). So if I sum all the passage rate and divide it by total hours, then I divide (/h) by (h), which does not make sense for me.
$endgroup$
– Nena
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Ah good point! I was a bit unclear on this part; you divide by the total number things you are taking the average of. It just so happens that you have one measurement per hour (it seems?), so this is the same as the total number of hours. But you are dividing by a unitless number; the number of data points. I have edited to avoid confusion.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
It's just that several studies found a MRT, like Study A found a MRT of 5 h, Study B found a MRT of 10 h, Study C found a MRT of 4 h, etc. Then I want to calculate the average passage rate (which is 1/MRT) of all these values. So I don't understand what you mean with 'one measurement per hour'.. Also you say second calculation and Ethan says first one, so now I am even more confused XD
$endgroup$
– Nena
4 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Yes I know that is what you meant :) But I do not understand why. And again: someone else is saying the opposite, so how do I know what is right..
$endgroup$
– Nena
4 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
I have read your question again, and took the time to understand it properly this time. Ethan Bolkers answer is correct, and I certainly could not phrase it any better than he already has.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Thank you for your comment! If I divide the sum of all gastric passage rates by the total number of hours, it even gives a third different solution.. So I am actually still not sure what is the right thing to do. The unit of MRT is h and the unit of passage rate is /h (just inverse of MRT). So if I sum all the passage rate and divide it by total hours, then I divide (/h) by (h), which does not make sense for me.
$endgroup$
– Nena
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Thank you for your comment! If I divide the sum of all gastric passage rates by the total number of hours, it even gives a third different solution.. So I am actually still not sure what is the right thing to do. The unit of MRT is h and the unit of passage rate is /h (just inverse of MRT). So if I sum all the passage rate and divide it by total hours, then I divide (/h) by (h), which does not make sense for me.
$endgroup$
– Nena
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
Ah good point! I was a bit unclear on this part; you divide by the total number things you are taking the average of. It just so happens that you have one measurement per hour (it seems?), so this is the same as the total number of hours. But you are dividing by a unitless number; the number of data points. I have edited to avoid confusion.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Ah good point! I was a bit unclear on this part; you divide by the total number things you are taking the average of. It just so happens that you have one measurement per hour (it seems?), so this is the same as the total number of hours. But you are dividing by a unitless number; the number of data points. I have edited to avoid confusion.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
7 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
It's just that several studies found a MRT, like Study A found a MRT of 5 h, Study B found a MRT of 10 h, Study C found a MRT of 4 h, etc. Then I want to calculate the average passage rate (which is 1/MRT) of all these values. So I don't understand what you mean with 'one measurement per hour'.. Also you say second calculation and Ethan says first one, so now I am even more confused XD
$endgroup$
– Nena
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
It's just that several studies found a MRT, like Study A found a MRT of 5 h, Study B found a MRT of 10 h, Study C found a MRT of 4 h, etc. Then I want to calculate the average passage rate (which is 1/MRT) of all these values. So I don't understand what you mean with 'one measurement per hour'.. Also you say second calculation and Ethan says first one, so now I am even more confused XD
$endgroup$
– Nena
4 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Yes I know that is what you meant :) But I do not understand why. And again: someone else is saying the opposite, so how do I know what is right..
$endgroup$
– Nena
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
Yes I know that is what you meant :) But I do not understand why. And again: someone else is saying the opposite, so how do I know what is right..
$endgroup$
– Nena
4 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
I have read your question again, and took the time to understand it properly this time. Ethan Bolkers answer is correct, and I certainly could not phrase it any better than he already has.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
I have read your question again, and took the time to understand it properly this time. Ethan Bolkers answer is correct, and I certainly could not phrase it any better than he already has.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
3 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Nena is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Nena is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Nena is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Nena is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3107661%2fwhy-is-the-inverse-of-an-average-of-numbers-not-the-same-as-the-average-of-the-i%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
1
$begingroup$
Welcome the Mathematics Stack Exchange community. A quick tour of the site will help you get the most of your time here. For typesetting your equations, please use MathJax. Here is a great reference.
$endgroup$
– dantopa
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Cf. Wikipedia article about harmonic mean
$endgroup$
– J. W. Tanner
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Putting on your socks and then putting on your shoes isn't the same as putting on your shoes and then putting on your socks. Buying auto insurance and then crashing your car isn't the same as crashing your car and then buying insurance. Why should averaging numbers and then inverting the averages be the same as inverting numbers and then averaging the inverses? The order in which you do things matters, in life and in arithmetic.
$endgroup$
– Gerry Myerson
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Okay well, I am very sorry for my stupid question... Why would you even respond with such an answer? This doesn't help at all. I know it matters in which way you calculate them, I am just asking what is the right way.
$endgroup$
– Nena
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Welcome to MSE! I hope you realise that responses here are given by volunteers. Your abrupt (some might call it rude) response to Gerry is not likely to encourage others to try to help you. Also, your comment is factually incorrect. You are not just asking what is the right way. You are also asking, both in the title and in the second paragraph, "why is $langle$this$rangle$ not equal to $langle$that$rangle$". That's the question that Gerry tried to answer. Even if you don't think he helped successfully, please show some courtesy regarding his willingness to help.
$endgroup$
– David
2 hours ago