Can a rabbi conduct a marriage if the bride is already pregnant from the groom?












7















Are there any prohibitions against or stipulations for conducting a marriage between a woman and the man who recently impregnated her, assuming they are otherwise fit for marriage.






halacha marriage pregnancy-birth







share|improve this question




















  • 1





    Could you add a bit of background to this question? What are some reasons why you think it might be allowed or forbidden? Understanding where this question comes from can help inspire relevant answers.

    – Daniel
    14 hours ago






  • 1





    @AlBerko both of your comments would be good information to incorporate into an answer.

    – Isaac Moses♦
    11 hours ago






  • 2





    I edited the title to simplify it while retaining the salient points. Feel free to re-edit if you don't like it.

    – Alex
    10 hours ago











  • See R. Ovadiah of Bertinoro’s eye witness account on the status of contemporaneous brides in Palermo (Darke Zion, bottom of page).

    – Oliver
    6 hours ago
















7















Are there any prohibitions against or stipulations for conducting a marriage between a woman and the man who recently impregnated her, assuming they are otherwise fit for marriage.






halacha marriage pregnancy-birth







share|improve this question




















  • 1





    Could you add a bit of background to this question? What are some reasons why you think it might be allowed or forbidden? Understanding where this question comes from can help inspire relevant answers.

    – Daniel
    14 hours ago






  • 1





    @AlBerko both of your comments would be good information to incorporate into an answer.

    – Isaac Moses♦
    11 hours ago






  • 2





    I edited the title to simplify it while retaining the salient points. Feel free to re-edit if you don't like it.

    – Alex
    10 hours ago











  • See R. Ovadiah of Bertinoro’s eye witness account on the status of contemporaneous brides in Palermo (Darke Zion, bottom of page).

    – Oliver
    6 hours ago














7












7








7


1






Are there any prohibitions against or stipulations for conducting a marriage between a woman and the man who recently impregnated her, assuming they are otherwise fit for marriage.






halacha marriage pregnancy-birth







share|improve this question
















Are there any prohibitions against or stipulations for conducting a marriage between a woman and the man who recently impregnated her, assuming they are otherwise fit for marriage.






halacha marriage pregnancy-birth




halacha marriage pregnancy-birth






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 10 hours ago









Alex

20.7k151121




20.7k151121










asked 15 hours ago









MeliorateMeliorate

387312




387312








  • 1





    Could you add a bit of background to this question? What are some reasons why you think it might be allowed or forbidden? Understanding where this question comes from can help inspire relevant answers.

    – Daniel
    14 hours ago






  • 1





    @AlBerko both of your comments would be good information to incorporate into an answer.

    – Isaac Moses♦
    11 hours ago






  • 2





    I edited the title to simplify it while retaining the salient points. Feel free to re-edit if you don't like it.

    – Alex
    10 hours ago











  • See R. Ovadiah of Bertinoro’s eye witness account on the status of contemporaneous brides in Palermo (Darke Zion, bottom of page).

    – Oliver
    6 hours ago














  • 1





    Could you add a bit of background to this question? What are some reasons why you think it might be allowed or forbidden? Understanding where this question comes from can help inspire relevant answers.

    – Daniel
    14 hours ago






  • 1





    @AlBerko both of your comments would be good information to incorporate into an answer.

    – Isaac Moses♦
    11 hours ago






  • 2





    I edited the title to simplify it while retaining the salient points. Feel free to re-edit if you don't like it.

    – Alex
    10 hours ago











  • See R. Ovadiah of Bertinoro’s eye witness account on the status of contemporaneous brides in Palermo (Darke Zion, bottom of page).

    – Oliver
    6 hours ago








1




1





Could you add a bit of background to this question? What are some reasons why you think it might be allowed or forbidden? Understanding where this question comes from can help inspire relevant answers.

– Daniel
14 hours ago





Could you add a bit of background to this question? What are some reasons why you think it might be allowed or forbidden? Understanding where this question comes from can help inspire relevant answers.

– Daniel
14 hours ago




1




1





@AlBerko both of your comments would be good information to incorporate into an answer.

– Isaac Moses♦
11 hours ago





@AlBerko both of your comments would be good information to incorporate into an answer.

– Isaac Moses♦
11 hours ago




2




2





I edited the title to simplify it while retaining the salient points. Feel free to re-edit if you don't like it.

– Alex
10 hours ago





I edited the title to simplify it while retaining the salient points. Feel free to re-edit if you don't like it.

– Alex
10 hours ago













See R. Ovadiah of Bertinoro’s eye witness account on the status of contemporaneous brides in Palermo (Darke Zion, bottom of page).

– Oliver
6 hours ago





See R. Ovadiah of Bertinoro’s eye witness account on the status of contemporaneous brides in Palermo (Darke Zion, bottom of page).

– Oliver
6 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















17














Short answer -- it's allowed.



You'll find a discussion elsewhere on this site about if someone impregnated a woman, do we recommend that he marry her. Which implies that the rabbi can certainly do such a wedding.



The discussion becomes a little more complicated if the pregnant fiancee was not Jewish at the time, and the rabbi now wants to convert her and marry them. (See Igros Moshe EH4:47).



The only question remaining is exactly what word to use in the kesubah (marriage document); theoretically you could refer to the bride as a "maiden" if she was never before married, and all her past partners were Jewish; there's a recording on yutorah.org from Rabbi J. David Bleich who said it looks wrong for a rabbi to sign his name on that language if the bride is visibly pregnant, so instead the text should just refer to her as an it'sa ("woman"). But if the whole conversation revolves around exactly what words to put in the document, it's clear that doing such a marriage is allowed.






share|improve this answer



















  • 1





    Heh, I guess it would be technically correct to write besulta (virgin) if she conceived though IVF, even if she is very obviously pregnant.

    – Adám
    11 hours ago






  • 1





    @Adam from a strict halachic perspective, besulta simply means "eligible to marry a kohen." Still Rabbi Bleich says not to use that word if the rabbi is also a witness on the Kesubah and the bride is visibly pregnant.

    – Shalom
    8 hours ago






  • 1





    That's just plain wrong. A widow is definitely not a besulta and is definitely fit for a kohen. Even a woman who had relations with a Jew should could marry (but didn't) is fit for a kohen. Only the kohen gadol is restricted to a besulta.

    – Adám
    7 hours ago











  • @Adám sorry, good point. Armelasa is used for widows. You are discussing the word Besulah in the Chumash vis-a-vis the prohibition; the only time she must be a besulah is to marry a kohen gadol. When it comes to writing besulta in a kesubah, Poskim have stated clearly the reverse: if she's kohen-eligible, write besulta. Igros Moshe OC4:118 advises an anonymous Jewish couple who've been "together" in college to go ahead and write besulta without even telling the officiating rabbi about their history.

    – Shalom
    5 hours ago



















1














Shemot 22:15 states:




וְכִֽי־יְפַתֶּ֣ה אִ֗ישׁ בְּתוּלָ֛ה אֲשֶׁ֥ר לֹֽא־אֹרָ֖שָׂה וְשָׁכַ֣ב עִמָּ֑הּ מָהֹ֛ר יִמְהָרֶ֥נָּה לּ֖וֹ לְאִשָּֽׁה




If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall provide her with a marriage contract as a wife.



If pregnancy is assumed as a possibility of sex, this should mean this is not only permissible but mandatory.






share|improve this answer

































    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes








    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    17














    Short answer -- it's allowed.



    You'll find a discussion elsewhere on this site about if someone impregnated a woman, do we recommend that he marry her. Which implies that the rabbi can certainly do such a wedding.



    The discussion becomes a little more complicated if the pregnant fiancee was not Jewish at the time, and the rabbi now wants to convert her and marry them. (See Igros Moshe EH4:47).



    The only question remaining is exactly what word to use in the kesubah (marriage document); theoretically you could refer to the bride as a "maiden" if she was never before married, and all her past partners were Jewish; there's a recording on yutorah.org from Rabbi J. David Bleich who said it looks wrong for a rabbi to sign his name on that language if the bride is visibly pregnant, so instead the text should just refer to her as an it'sa ("woman"). But if the whole conversation revolves around exactly what words to put in the document, it's clear that doing such a marriage is allowed.






    share|improve this answer



















    • 1





      Heh, I guess it would be technically correct to write besulta (virgin) if she conceived though IVF, even if she is very obviously pregnant.

      – Adám
      11 hours ago






    • 1





      @Adam from a strict halachic perspective, besulta simply means "eligible to marry a kohen." Still Rabbi Bleich says not to use that word if the rabbi is also a witness on the Kesubah and the bride is visibly pregnant.

      – Shalom
      8 hours ago






    • 1





      That's just plain wrong. A widow is definitely not a besulta and is definitely fit for a kohen. Even a woman who had relations with a Jew should could marry (but didn't) is fit for a kohen. Only the kohen gadol is restricted to a besulta.

      – Adám
      7 hours ago











    • @Adám sorry, good point. Armelasa is used for widows. You are discussing the word Besulah in the Chumash vis-a-vis the prohibition; the only time she must be a besulah is to marry a kohen gadol. When it comes to writing besulta in a kesubah, Poskim have stated clearly the reverse: if she's kohen-eligible, write besulta. Igros Moshe OC4:118 advises an anonymous Jewish couple who've been "together" in college to go ahead and write besulta without even telling the officiating rabbi about their history.

      – Shalom
      5 hours ago
















    17














    Short answer -- it's allowed.



    You'll find a discussion elsewhere on this site about if someone impregnated a woman, do we recommend that he marry her. Which implies that the rabbi can certainly do such a wedding.



    The discussion becomes a little more complicated if the pregnant fiancee was not Jewish at the time, and the rabbi now wants to convert her and marry them. (See Igros Moshe EH4:47).



    The only question remaining is exactly what word to use in the kesubah (marriage document); theoretically you could refer to the bride as a "maiden" if she was never before married, and all her past partners were Jewish; there's a recording on yutorah.org from Rabbi J. David Bleich who said it looks wrong for a rabbi to sign his name on that language if the bride is visibly pregnant, so instead the text should just refer to her as an it'sa ("woman"). But if the whole conversation revolves around exactly what words to put in the document, it's clear that doing such a marriage is allowed.






    share|improve this answer



















    • 1





      Heh, I guess it would be technically correct to write besulta (virgin) if she conceived though IVF, even if she is very obviously pregnant.

      – Adám
      11 hours ago






    • 1





      @Adam from a strict halachic perspective, besulta simply means "eligible to marry a kohen." Still Rabbi Bleich says not to use that word if the rabbi is also a witness on the Kesubah and the bride is visibly pregnant.

      – Shalom
      8 hours ago






    • 1





      That's just plain wrong. A widow is definitely not a besulta and is definitely fit for a kohen. Even a woman who had relations with a Jew should could marry (but didn't) is fit for a kohen. Only the kohen gadol is restricted to a besulta.

      – Adám
      7 hours ago











    • @Adám sorry, good point. Armelasa is used for widows. You are discussing the word Besulah in the Chumash vis-a-vis the prohibition; the only time she must be a besulah is to marry a kohen gadol. When it comes to writing besulta in a kesubah, Poskim have stated clearly the reverse: if she's kohen-eligible, write besulta. Igros Moshe OC4:118 advises an anonymous Jewish couple who've been "together" in college to go ahead and write besulta without even telling the officiating rabbi about their history.

      – Shalom
      5 hours ago














    17












    17








    17







    Short answer -- it's allowed.



    You'll find a discussion elsewhere on this site about if someone impregnated a woman, do we recommend that he marry her. Which implies that the rabbi can certainly do such a wedding.



    The discussion becomes a little more complicated if the pregnant fiancee was not Jewish at the time, and the rabbi now wants to convert her and marry them. (See Igros Moshe EH4:47).



    The only question remaining is exactly what word to use in the kesubah (marriage document); theoretically you could refer to the bride as a "maiden" if she was never before married, and all her past partners were Jewish; there's a recording on yutorah.org from Rabbi J. David Bleich who said it looks wrong for a rabbi to sign his name on that language if the bride is visibly pregnant, so instead the text should just refer to her as an it'sa ("woman"). But if the whole conversation revolves around exactly what words to put in the document, it's clear that doing such a marriage is allowed.






    share|improve this answer













    Short answer -- it's allowed.



    You'll find a discussion elsewhere on this site about if someone impregnated a woman, do we recommend that he marry her. Which implies that the rabbi can certainly do such a wedding.



    The discussion becomes a little more complicated if the pregnant fiancee was not Jewish at the time, and the rabbi now wants to convert her and marry them. (See Igros Moshe EH4:47).



    The only question remaining is exactly what word to use in the kesubah (marriage document); theoretically you could refer to the bride as a "maiden" if she was never before married, and all her past partners were Jewish; there's a recording on yutorah.org from Rabbi J. David Bleich who said it looks wrong for a rabbi to sign his name on that language if the bride is visibly pregnant, so instead the text should just refer to her as an it'sa ("woman"). But if the whole conversation revolves around exactly what words to put in the document, it's clear that doing such a marriage is allowed.







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 15 hours ago









    ShalomShalom

    105k3143399




    105k3143399








    • 1





      Heh, I guess it would be technically correct to write besulta (virgin) if she conceived though IVF, even if she is very obviously pregnant.

      – Adám
      11 hours ago






    • 1





      @Adam from a strict halachic perspective, besulta simply means "eligible to marry a kohen." Still Rabbi Bleich says not to use that word if the rabbi is also a witness on the Kesubah and the bride is visibly pregnant.

      – Shalom
      8 hours ago






    • 1





      That's just plain wrong. A widow is definitely not a besulta and is definitely fit for a kohen. Even a woman who had relations with a Jew should could marry (but didn't) is fit for a kohen. Only the kohen gadol is restricted to a besulta.

      – Adám
      7 hours ago











    • @Adám sorry, good point. Armelasa is used for widows. You are discussing the word Besulah in the Chumash vis-a-vis the prohibition; the only time she must be a besulah is to marry a kohen gadol. When it comes to writing besulta in a kesubah, Poskim have stated clearly the reverse: if she's kohen-eligible, write besulta. Igros Moshe OC4:118 advises an anonymous Jewish couple who've been "together" in college to go ahead and write besulta without even telling the officiating rabbi about their history.

      – Shalom
      5 hours ago














    • 1





      Heh, I guess it would be technically correct to write besulta (virgin) if she conceived though IVF, even if she is very obviously pregnant.

      – Adám
      11 hours ago






    • 1





      @Adam from a strict halachic perspective, besulta simply means "eligible to marry a kohen." Still Rabbi Bleich says not to use that word if the rabbi is also a witness on the Kesubah and the bride is visibly pregnant.

      – Shalom
      8 hours ago






    • 1





      That's just plain wrong. A widow is definitely not a besulta and is definitely fit for a kohen. Even a woman who had relations with a Jew should could marry (but didn't) is fit for a kohen. Only the kohen gadol is restricted to a besulta.

      – Adám
      7 hours ago











    • @Adám sorry, good point. Armelasa is used for widows. You are discussing the word Besulah in the Chumash vis-a-vis the prohibition; the only time she must be a besulah is to marry a kohen gadol. When it comes to writing besulta in a kesubah, Poskim have stated clearly the reverse: if she's kohen-eligible, write besulta. Igros Moshe OC4:118 advises an anonymous Jewish couple who've been "together" in college to go ahead and write besulta without even telling the officiating rabbi about their history.

      – Shalom
      5 hours ago








    1




    1





    Heh, I guess it would be technically correct to write besulta (virgin) if she conceived though IVF, even if she is very obviously pregnant.

    – Adám
    11 hours ago





    Heh, I guess it would be technically correct to write besulta (virgin) if she conceived though IVF, even if she is very obviously pregnant.

    – Adám
    11 hours ago




    1




    1





    @Adam from a strict halachic perspective, besulta simply means "eligible to marry a kohen." Still Rabbi Bleich says not to use that word if the rabbi is also a witness on the Kesubah and the bride is visibly pregnant.

    – Shalom
    8 hours ago





    @Adam from a strict halachic perspective, besulta simply means "eligible to marry a kohen." Still Rabbi Bleich says not to use that word if the rabbi is also a witness on the Kesubah and the bride is visibly pregnant.

    – Shalom
    8 hours ago




    1




    1





    That's just plain wrong. A widow is definitely not a besulta and is definitely fit for a kohen. Even a woman who had relations with a Jew should could marry (but didn't) is fit for a kohen. Only the kohen gadol is restricted to a besulta.

    – Adám
    7 hours ago





    That's just plain wrong. A widow is definitely not a besulta and is definitely fit for a kohen. Even a woman who had relations with a Jew should could marry (but didn't) is fit for a kohen. Only the kohen gadol is restricted to a besulta.

    – Adám
    7 hours ago













    @Adám sorry, good point. Armelasa is used for widows. You are discussing the word Besulah in the Chumash vis-a-vis the prohibition; the only time she must be a besulah is to marry a kohen gadol. When it comes to writing besulta in a kesubah, Poskim have stated clearly the reverse: if she's kohen-eligible, write besulta. Igros Moshe OC4:118 advises an anonymous Jewish couple who've been "together" in college to go ahead and write besulta without even telling the officiating rabbi about their history.

    – Shalom
    5 hours ago





    @Adám sorry, good point. Armelasa is used for widows. You are discussing the word Besulah in the Chumash vis-a-vis the prohibition; the only time she must be a besulah is to marry a kohen gadol. When it comes to writing besulta in a kesubah, Poskim have stated clearly the reverse: if she's kohen-eligible, write besulta. Igros Moshe OC4:118 advises an anonymous Jewish couple who've been "together" in college to go ahead and write besulta without even telling the officiating rabbi about their history.

    – Shalom
    5 hours ago











    1














    Shemot 22:15 states:




    וְכִֽי־יְפַתֶּ֣ה אִ֗ישׁ בְּתוּלָ֛ה אֲשֶׁ֥ר לֹֽא־אֹרָ֖שָׂה וְשָׁכַ֣ב עִמָּ֑הּ מָהֹ֛ר יִמְהָרֶ֥נָּה לּ֖וֹ לְאִשָּֽׁה




    If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall provide her with a marriage contract as a wife.



    If pregnancy is assumed as a possibility of sex, this should mean this is not only permissible but mandatory.






    share|improve this answer






























      1














      Shemot 22:15 states:




      וְכִֽי־יְפַתֶּ֣ה אִ֗ישׁ בְּתוּלָ֛ה אֲשֶׁ֥ר לֹֽא־אֹרָ֖שָׂה וְשָׁכַ֣ב עִמָּ֑הּ מָהֹ֛ר יִמְהָרֶ֥נָּה לּ֖וֹ לְאִשָּֽׁה




      If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall provide her with a marriage contract as a wife.



      If pregnancy is assumed as a possibility of sex, this should mean this is not only permissible but mandatory.






      share|improve this answer




























        1












        1








        1







        Shemot 22:15 states:




        וְכִֽי־יְפַתֶּ֣ה אִ֗ישׁ בְּתוּלָ֛ה אֲשֶׁ֥ר לֹֽא־אֹרָ֖שָׂה וְשָׁכַ֣ב עִמָּ֑הּ מָהֹ֛ר יִמְהָרֶ֥נָּה לּ֖וֹ לְאִשָּֽׁה




        If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall provide her with a marriage contract as a wife.



        If pregnancy is assumed as a possibility of sex, this should mean this is not only permissible but mandatory.






        share|improve this answer















        Shemot 22:15 states:




        וְכִֽי־יְפַתֶּ֣ה אִ֗ישׁ בְּתוּלָ֛ה אֲשֶׁ֥ר לֹֽא־אֹרָ֖שָׂה וְשָׁכַ֣ב עִמָּ֑הּ מָהֹ֛ר יִמְהָרֶ֥נָּה לּ֖וֹ לְאִשָּֽׁה




        If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall provide her with a marriage contract as a wife.



        If pregnancy is assumed as a possibility of sex, this should mean this is not only permissible but mandatory.







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited 1 hour ago









        Ploni

        4,3561358




        4,3561358










        answered 2 hours ago









        Ben WeissmanBen Weissman

        324




        324















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