Is ipsum/ipsa/ipse a third person pronoun, or can it serve other functions?
This question was inspired by a comment to an answer on this question:
How would you say “same thing” in Latin?
In which an answerer translated "Utinam idem sentires ac ipsa/ipse sentio!" as "If only you felt the same as I (fem/masc) feel!"
Thanks in advance.
pronomina personal-pronouns
New contributor
add a comment |
This question was inspired by a comment to an answer on this question:
How would you say “same thing” in Latin?
In which an answerer translated "Utinam idem sentires ac ipsa/ipse sentio!" as "If only you felt the same as I (fem/masc) feel!"
Thanks in advance.
pronomina personal-pronouns
New contributor
add a comment |
This question was inspired by a comment to an answer on this question:
How would you say “same thing” in Latin?
In which an answerer translated "Utinam idem sentires ac ipsa/ipse sentio!" as "If only you felt the same as I (fem/masc) feel!"
Thanks in advance.
pronomina personal-pronouns
New contributor
This question was inspired by a comment to an answer on this question:
How would you say “same thing” in Latin?
In which an answerer translated "Utinam idem sentires ac ipsa/ipse sentio!" as "If only you felt the same as I (fem/masc) feel!"
Thanks in advance.
pronomina personal-pronouns
pronomina personal-pronouns
New contributor
New contributor
edited yesterday
Joonas Ilmavirta♦
49.1k1271287
49.1k1271287
New contributor
asked yesterday
Sola GratiaSola Gratia
1483
1483
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
As Joonas said, ipse is an intensifier, not a pronoun in and of itself.
Caesar ipse hoc dixit.
Caesar himself said this!
The trick is, Latin leaves out pronouns all the time. So you'll sometimes see ipse standing on its own.
Ipse hoc aedificavi.
I built this myself!
Here, the ending of the verb is what supplies the "I" and "my-" parts.
Finally, a word of caution: ipse does not mean "-self" in the sense of "he's talking to himself". In English, the "intensive" pronoun and the "reflexive" pronoun look the same, but in Latin this isn't the case! So only use ipse when you're emphasizing something, not when you're saying that the subject and the object are the same.
I would actually say that ipse is a pronoun, but not a personal pronoun. But I guess that depends on what one means by a pronoun in a first place, and that's tangential to the question at hand. Anyway, a +1 for a good explanation!
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
yesterday
add a comment |
The pronoun ipse is not a third person pronoun.
It can be used with the first or second person just as well.
The closest English word I can think of is "-self" from which one can form "myself", "yourself", "himself", and others.
(For clarity, I should add that ipse is not quite the same as "-self"; it is just the simplest one-word translation. Forms of se can also be translated as "-self", but in a very different way.)
Reference to first or second (or third!) person can be left implicit.
You can say ipse sentio ("I myself feel"), no need to say ego ipse sentio.
It is possible to use it together with ego or tu as well, and that gives more emphasis.
It also proves unambiguously that the pronoun can go together with first and second persons.
For a couple of examples, you can check uses of ego ipse and tu ipse in Cicero.
1
That has to be the fastest answer in history (literally within seconds haha). I will mark yours as the answer as soon as it'll allow me (which is apparently 10 minutes from now) (Also, did you mean to write "unambiguously?")
– Sola Gratia
yesterday
@SolaGratia I did, but I was in a Latin mode and went with in- instead of un-. Good catch!
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
yesterday
1
I suspected as much, haha. Thanks agian.
– Sola Gratia
yesterday
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "644"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sola Gratia is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2flatin.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f9440%2fis-ipsum-ipsa-ipse-a-third-person-pronoun-or-can-it-serve-other-functions%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
As Joonas said, ipse is an intensifier, not a pronoun in and of itself.
Caesar ipse hoc dixit.
Caesar himself said this!
The trick is, Latin leaves out pronouns all the time. So you'll sometimes see ipse standing on its own.
Ipse hoc aedificavi.
I built this myself!
Here, the ending of the verb is what supplies the "I" and "my-" parts.
Finally, a word of caution: ipse does not mean "-self" in the sense of "he's talking to himself". In English, the "intensive" pronoun and the "reflexive" pronoun look the same, but in Latin this isn't the case! So only use ipse when you're emphasizing something, not when you're saying that the subject and the object are the same.
I would actually say that ipse is a pronoun, but not a personal pronoun. But I guess that depends on what one means by a pronoun in a first place, and that's tangential to the question at hand. Anyway, a +1 for a good explanation!
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
yesterday
add a comment |
As Joonas said, ipse is an intensifier, not a pronoun in and of itself.
Caesar ipse hoc dixit.
Caesar himself said this!
The trick is, Latin leaves out pronouns all the time. So you'll sometimes see ipse standing on its own.
Ipse hoc aedificavi.
I built this myself!
Here, the ending of the verb is what supplies the "I" and "my-" parts.
Finally, a word of caution: ipse does not mean "-self" in the sense of "he's talking to himself". In English, the "intensive" pronoun and the "reflexive" pronoun look the same, but in Latin this isn't the case! So only use ipse when you're emphasizing something, not when you're saying that the subject and the object are the same.
I would actually say that ipse is a pronoun, but not a personal pronoun. But I guess that depends on what one means by a pronoun in a first place, and that's tangential to the question at hand. Anyway, a +1 for a good explanation!
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
yesterday
add a comment |
As Joonas said, ipse is an intensifier, not a pronoun in and of itself.
Caesar ipse hoc dixit.
Caesar himself said this!
The trick is, Latin leaves out pronouns all the time. So you'll sometimes see ipse standing on its own.
Ipse hoc aedificavi.
I built this myself!
Here, the ending of the verb is what supplies the "I" and "my-" parts.
Finally, a word of caution: ipse does not mean "-self" in the sense of "he's talking to himself". In English, the "intensive" pronoun and the "reflexive" pronoun look the same, but in Latin this isn't the case! So only use ipse when you're emphasizing something, not when you're saying that the subject and the object are the same.
As Joonas said, ipse is an intensifier, not a pronoun in and of itself.
Caesar ipse hoc dixit.
Caesar himself said this!
The trick is, Latin leaves out pronouns all the time. So you'll sometimes see ipse standing on its own.
Ipse hoc aedificavi.
I built this myself!
Here, the ending of the verb is what supplies the "I" and "my-" parts.
Finally, a word of caution: ipse does not mean "-self" in the sense of "he's talking to himself". In English, the "intensive" pronoun and the "reflexive" pronoun look the same, but in Latin this isn't the case! So only use ipse when you're emphasizing something, not when you're saying that the subject and the object are the same.
answered yesterday
DraconisDraconis
18.3k22475
18.3k22475
I would actually say that ipse is a pronoun, but not a personal pronoun. But I guess that depends on what one means by a pronoun in a first place, and that's tangential to the question at hand. Anyway, a +1 for a good explanation!
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
yesterday
add a comment |
I would actually say that ipse is a pronoun, but not a personal pronoun. But I guess that depends on what one means by a pronoun in a first place, and that's tangential to the question at hand. Anyway, a +1 for a good explanation!
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
yesterday
I would actually say that ipse is a pronoun, but not a personal pronoun. But I guess that depends on what one means by a pronoun in a first place, and that's tangential to the question at hand. Anyway, a +1 for a good explanation!
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
yesterday
I would actually say that ipse is a pronoun, but not a personal pronoun. But I guess that depends on what one means by a pronoun in a first place, and that's tangential to the question at hand. Anyway, a +1 for a good explanation!
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
yesterday
add a comment |
The pronoun ipse is not a third person pronoun.
It can be used with the first or second person just as well.
The closest English word I can think of is "-self" from which one can form "myself", "yourself", "himself", and others.
(For clarity, I should add that ipse is not quite the same as "-self"; it is just the simplest one-word translation. Forms of se can also be translated as "-self", but in a very different way.)
Reference to first or second (or third!) person can be left implicit.
You can say ipse sentio ("I myself feel"), no need to say ego ipse sentio.
It is possible to use it together with ego or tu as well, and that gives more emphasis.
It also proves unambiguously that the pronoun can go together with first and second persons.
For a couple of examples, you can check uses of ego ipse and tu ipse in Cicero.
1
That has to be the fastest answer in history (literally within seconds haha). I will mark yours as the answer as soon as it'll allow me (which is apparently 10 minutes from now) (Also, did you mean to write "unambiguously?")
– Sola Gratia
yesterday
@SolaGratia I did, but I was in a Latin mode and went with in- instead of un-. Good catch!
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
yesterday
1
I suspected as much, haha. Thanks agian.
– Sola Gratia
yesterday
add a comment |
The pronoun ipse is not a third person pronoun.
It can be used with the first or second person just as well.
The closest English word I can think of is "-self" from which one can form "myself", "yourself", "himself", and others.
(For clarity, I should add that ipse is not quite the same as "-self"; it is just the simplest one-word translation. Forms of se can also be translated as "-self", but in a very different way.)
Reference to first or second (or third!) person can be left implicit.
You can say ipse sentio ("I myself feel"), no need to say ego ipse sentio.
It is possible to use it together with ego or tu as well, and that gives more emphasis.
It also proves unambiguously that the pronoun can go together with first and second persons.
For a couple of examples, you can check uses of ego ipse and tu ipse in Cicero.
1
That has to be the fastest answer in history (literally within seconds haha). I will mark yours as the answer as soon as it'll allow me (which is apparently 10 minutes from now) (Also, did you mean to write "unambiguously?")
– Sola Gratia
yesterday
@SolaGratia I did, but I was in a Latin mode and went with in- instead of un-. Good catch!
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
yesterday
1
I suspected as much, haha. Thanks agian.
– Sola Gratia
yesterday
add a comment |
The pronoun ipse is not a third person pronoun.
It can be used with the first or second person just as well.
The closest English word I can think of is "-self" from which one can form "myself", "yourself", "himself", and others.
(For clarity, I should add that ipse is not quite the same as "-self"; it is just the simplest one-word translation. Forms of se can also be translated as "-self", but in a very different way.)
Reference to first or second (or third!) person can be left implicit.
You can say ipse sentio ("I myself feel"), no need to say ego ipse sentio.
It is possible to use it together with ego or tu as well, and that gives more emphasis.
It also proves unambiguously that the pronoun can go together with first and second persons.
For a couple of examples, you can check uses of ego ipse and tu ipse in Cicero.
The pronoun ipse is not a third person pronoun.
It can be used with the first or second person just as well.
The closest English word I can think of is "-self" from which one can form "myself", "yourself", "himself", and others.
(For clarity, I should add that ipse is not quite the same as "-self"; it is just the simplest one-word translation. Forms of se can also be translated as "-self", but in a very different way.)
Reference to first or second (or third!) person can be left implicit.
You can say ipse sentio ("I myself feel"), no need to say ego ipse sentio.
It is possible to use it together with ego or tu as well, and that gives more emphasis.
It also proves unambiguously that the pronoun can go together with first and second persons.
For a couple of examples, you can check uses of ego ipse and tu ipse in Cicero.
edited yesterday
answered yesterday
Joonas Ilmavirta♦Joonas Ilmavirta
49.1k1271287
49.1k1271287
1
That has to be the fastest answer in history (literally within seconds haha). I will mark yours as the answer as soon as it'll allow me (which is apparently 10 minutes from now) (Also, did you mean to write "unambiguously?")
– Sola Gratia
yesterday
@SolaGratia I did, but I was in a Latin mode and went with in- instead of un-. Good catch!
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
yesterday
1
I suspected as much, haha. Thanks agian.
– Sola Gratia
yesterday
add a comment |
1
That has to be the fastest answer in history (literally within seconds haha). I will mark yours as the answer as soon as it'll allow me (which is apparently 10 minutes from now) (Also, did you mean to write "unambiguously?")
– Sola Gratia
yesterday
@SolaGratia I did, but I was in a Latin mode and went with in- instead of un-. Good catch!
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
yesterday
1
I suspected as much, haha. Thanks agian.
– Sola Gratia
yesterday
1
1
That has to be the fastest answer in history (literally within seconds haha). I will mark yours as the answer as soon as it'll allow me (which is apparently 10 minutes from now) (Also, did you mean to write "unambiguously?")
– Sola Gratia
yesterday
That has to be the fastest answer in history (literally within seconds haha). I will mark yours as the answer as soon as it'll allow me (which is apparently 10 minutes from now) (Also, did you mean to write "unambiguously?")
– Sola Gratia
yesterday
@SolaGratia I did, but I was in a Latin mode and went with in- instead of un-. Good catch!
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
yesterday
@SolaGratia I did, but I was in a Latin mode and went with in- instead of un-. Good catch!
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
yesterday
1
1
I suspected as much, haha. Thanks agian.
– Sola Gratia
yesterday
I suspected as much, haha. Thanks agian.
– Sola Gratia
yesterday
add a comment |
Sola Gratia is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Sola Gratia is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Sola Gratia is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Sola Gratia is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Thanks for contributing an answer to Latin Language Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2flatin.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f9440%2fis-ipsum-ipsa-ipse-a-third-person-pronoun-or-can-it-serve-other-functions%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown