Find the positive root of $100^{2}=x^{2}+ left( frac{100x}{100+x} right)^{2}$

Multi tool use
$begingroup$
I was struggling with this problem:
$$100^{2}=x^{2}+ left( frac{100x}{100+x} right)^{2}$$
It came up when i was developing a solution to a geometry problem. I've already checked in Mathematica and the solution is right, according to the answer. The answer needs to be a real positive number because it's a measure of a segment.
I've tried factoring, manipulating algebraically, but i couldn't solve the resulting 4th degree polynomial. I appreciate if someone could help me. Thanks!
algebra-precalculus polynomials contest-math real-numbers factoring
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I was struggling with this problem:
$$100^{2}=x^{2}+ left( frac{100x}{100+x} right)^{2}$$
It came up when i was developing a solution to a geometry problem. I've already checked in Mathematica and the solution is right, according to the answer. The answer needs to be a real positive number because it's a measure of a segment.
I've tried factoring, manipulating algebraically, but i couldn't solve the resulting 4th degree polynomial. I appreciate if someone could help me. Thanks!
algebra-precalculus polynomials contest-math real-numbers factoring
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
What's wrong with just using the solution from Mathematica?
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
yesterday
2
$begingroup$
It is a problem from a Olympiad contest. You can't use solvers there.
$endgroup$
– shewlong
yesterday
$begingroup$
math.stackexchange.com/questions/2020139/…
$endgroup$
– lab bhattacharjee
yesterday
$begingroup$
Thanks @bhattacharjee with your hint i could solve the problem. I will post my solution later!
$endgroup$
– shewlong
13 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I was struggling with this problem:
$$100^{2}=x^{2}+ left( frac{100x}{100+x} right)^{2}$$
It came up when i was developing a solution to a geometry problem. I've already checked in Mathematica and the solution is right, according to the answer. The answer needs to be a real positive number because it's a measure of a segment.
I've tried factoring, manipulating algebraically, but i couldn't solve the resulting 4th degree polynomial. I appreciate if someone could help me. Thanks!
algebra-precalculus polynomials contest-math real-numbers factoring
$endgroup$
I was struggling with this problem:
$$100^{2}=x^{2}+ left( frac{100x}{100+x} right)^{2}$$
It came up when i was developing a solution to a geometry problem. I've already checked in Mathematica and the solution is right, according to the answer. The answer needs to be a real positive number because it's a measure of a segment.
I've tried factoring, manipulating algebraically, but i couldn't solve the resulting 4th degree polynomial. I appreciate if someone could help me. Thanks!
algebra-precalculus polynomials contest-math real-numbers factoring
algebra-precalculus polynomials contest-math real-numbers factoring
edited 22 hours ago
user21820
40.1k544162
40.1k544162
asked yesterday


shewlongshewlong
715
715
1
$begingroup$
What's wrong with just using the solution from Mathematica?
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
yesterday
2
$begingroup$
It is a problem from a Olympiad contest. You can't use solvers there.
$endgroup$
– shewlong
yesterday
$begingroup$
math.stackexchange.com/questions/2020139/…
$endgroup$
– lab bhattacharjee
yesterday
$begingroup$
Thanks @bhattacharjee with your hint i could solve the problem. I will post my solution later!
$endgroup$
– shewlong
13 hours ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
What's wrong with just using the solution from Mathematica?
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
yesterday
2
$begingroup$
It is a problem from a Olympiad contest. You can't use solvers there.
$endgroup$
– shewlong
yesterday
$begingroup$
math.stackexchange.com/questions/2020139/…
$endgroup$
– lab bhattacharjee
yesterday
$begingroup$
Thanks @bhattacharjee with your hint i could solve the problem. I will post my solution later!
$endgroup$
– shewlong
13 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
What's wrong with just using the solution from Mathematica?
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
yesterday
$begingroup$
What's wrong with just using the solution from Mathematica?
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
yesterday
2
2
$begingroup$
It is a problem from a Olympiad contest. You can't use solvers there.
$endgroup$
– shewlong
yesterday
$begingroup$
It is a problem from a Olympiad contest. You can't use solvers there.
$endgroup$
– shewlong
yesterday
$begingroup$
math.stackexchange.com/questions/2020139/…
$endgroup$
– lab bhattacharjee
yesterday
$begingroup$
math.stackexchange.com/questions/2020139/…
$endgroup$
– lab bhattacharjee
yesterday
$begingroup$
Thanks @bhattacharjee with your hint i could solve the problem. I will post my solution later!
$endgroup$
– shewlong
13 hours ago
$begingroup$
Thanks @bhattacharjee with your hint i could solve the problem. I will post my solution later!
$endgroup$
– shewlong
13 hours ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
WA tell us that the positive root is
$$
50 (-1 + sqrt 2 + sqrt{2 sqrt 2 - 1}) approx 88.320
$$
WA also tells us that the minimal polynomial of this number over $mathbb Q$ is
$$
x^4 + 200 x^3 + 10000 x^2 - 2000000 x - 100000000
$$
and so there is no simpler answer.
On the other hand, substituting $x=50u$ in the minimal polynomial gives
$$
6250000 (u^4 + 4 u^3 + 4 u^2 - 16 u - 16)
$$
Now this can factored into two reasonably looking quadratics:
$$
u^4 + 4 u^3 + 4 u^2 - 16 u - 16 =
(u^2 + (2 + 2 sqrt 2) u + 4 sqrt 2 + 4)
(u^2 + (2 - 2 sqrt 2) u - 4 sqrt 2 + 4)
$$
But all this is in hindsight...
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
How do we know this is the minimal polynomial? What about $x - 50(-1+sqrt{2} + sqrt{2sqrt{2} -1})= 0$?
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
yesterday
$begingroup$
@DavidG.Stork, see my edited answer.
$endgroup$
– lhf
yesterday
$begingroup$
OK... I guess we can assume $x in mathbb{Q}$.
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Thanks for all the colaboration. Due to @labbhattacharjee 's comment, i was able to solve the problem analytically. Solve the equation $x^2+frac{9x^2}{(x+3)^2}=27$ shows that, if we have an equation:
$$a^{2}+b^{2}=k$$
Then, calling $c=frac{ab}{a-b}$, we can manipulate algebraically the expression above:
$$(a-b)^{2}+2c(a-b)-k=0$$
For our problem, let $a=x$, $b=frac{100x}{100+x}$ and $k=100^{2}$. It turns out that $c=100$ and $a-b=frac{x^{2}}{100+x}$. So, if we put $u=frac{x^{2}}{100+x}$, we will have:
$$u^{2}+200u-100^{2}=0$$
Which the only positive root is $100(sqrt{2}-1)$. Solving the equation:
$$frac{x^{2}}{100+x}=100(sqrt{2}-1)$$
The only positive root is $50(sqrt{2}-1+sqrt{-1+2sqrt{2}})$.
Thanks!
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Excellent! @shewlong
$endgroup$
– Dr. Mathva
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Multiplying both sides by $(100+x)^2$, we get
$$
100^2(100+x)^2=x^2(100+x)^2+ 100^2x^2\
Rightarrow100^2[(100+x+x)(100+x-x)]=100^2x^2\
Rightarrow100(100+2x)=x^2\
Rightarrow x^2-200x-10000=0.
$$
You are then able to solve it. The positive root is $100(1+sqrt2)$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Can you explain how you went from step 1 to step 2? I think you've made an error.
$endgroup$
– Clayton
yesterday
$begingroup$
I think there's an error in the solution. The answer is not that.
$endgroup$
– shewlong
yesterday
$begingroup$
The right side is (x(100+x))^2.
$endgroup$
– shewlong
yesterday
add a comment |
Your Answer
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
WA tell us that the positive root is
$$
50 (-1 + sqrt 2 + sqrt{2 sqrt 2 - 1}) approx 88.320
$$
WA also tells us that the minimal polynomial of this number over $mathbb Q$ is
$$
x^4 + 200 x^3 + 10000 x^2 - 2000000 x - 100000000
$$
and so there is no simpler answer.
On the other hand, substituting $x=50u$ in the minimal polynomial gives
$$
6250000 (u^4 + 4 u^3 + 4 u^2 - 16 u - 16)
$$
Now this can factored into two reasonably looking quadratics:
$$
u^4 + 4 u^3 + 4 u^2 - 16 u - 16 =
(u^2 + (2 + 2 sqrt 2) u + 4 sqrt 2 + 4)
(u^2 + (2 - 2 sqrt 2) u - 4 sqrt 2 + 4)
$$
But all this is in hindsight...
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
How do we know this is the minimal polynomial? What about $x - 50(-1+sqrt{2} + sqrt{2sqrt{2} -1})= 0$?
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
yesterday
$begingroup$
@DavidG.Stork, see my edited answer.
$endgroup$
– lhf
yesterday
$begingroup$
OK... I guess we can assume $x in mathbb{Q}$.
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
WA tell us that the positive root is
$$
50 (-1 + sqrt 2 + sqrt{2 sqrt 2 - 1}) approx 88.320
$$
WA also tells us that the minimal polynomial of this number over $mathbb Q$ is
$$
x^4 + 200 x^3 + 10000 x^2 - 2000000 x - 100000000
$$
and so there is no simpler answer.
On the other hand, substituting $x=50u$ in the minimal polynomial gives
$$
6250000 (u^4 + 4 u^3 + 4 u^2 - 16 u - 16)
$$
Now this can factored into two reasonably looking quadratics:
$$
u^4 + 4 u^3 + 4 u^2 - 16 u - 16 =
(u^2 + (2 + 2 sqrt 2) u + 4 sqrt 2 + 4)
(u^2 + (2 - 2 sqrt 2) u - 4 sqrt 2 + 4)
$$
But all this is in hindsight...
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
How do we know this is the minimal polynomial? What about $x - 50(-1+sqrt{2} + sqrt{2sqrt{2} -1})= 0$?
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
yesterday
$begingroup$
@DavidG.Stork, see my edited answer.
$endgroup$
– lhf
yesterday
$begingroup$
OK... I guess we can assume $x in mathbb{Q}$.
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
WA tell us that the positive root is
$$
50 (-1 + sqrt 2 + sqrt{2 sqrt 2 - 1}) approx 88.320
$$
WA also tells us that the minimal polynomial of this number over $mathbb Q$ is
$$
x^4 + 200 x^3 + 10000 x^2 - 2000000 x - 100000000
$$
and so there is no simpler answer.
On the other hand, substituting $x=50u$ in the minimal polynomial gives
$$
6250000 (u^4 + 4 u^3 + 4 u^2 - 16 u - 16)
$$
Now this can factored into two reasonably looking quadratics:
$$
u^4 + 4 u^3 + 4 u^2 - 16 u - 16 =
(u^2 + (2 + 2 sqrt 2) u + 4 sqrt 2 + 4)
(u^2 + (2 - 2 sqrt 2) u - 4 sqrt 2 + 4)
$$
But all this is in hindsight...
$endgroup$
WA tell us that the positive root is
$$
50 (-1 + sqrt 2 + sqrt{2 sqrt 2 - 1}) approx 88.320
$$
WA also tells us that the minimal polynomial of this number over $mathbb Q$ is
$$
x^4 + 200 x^3 + 10000 x^2 - 2000000 x - 100000000
$$
and so there is no simpler answer.
On the other hand, substituting $x=50u$ in the minimal polynomial gives
$$
6250000 (u^4 + 4 u^3 + 4 u^2 - 16 u - 16)
$$
Now this can factored into two reasonably looking quadratics:
$$
u^4 + 4 u^3 + 4 u^2 - 16 u - 16 =
(u^2 + (2 + 2 sqrt 2) u + 4 sqrt 2 + 4)
(u^2 + (2 - 2 sqrt 2) u - 4 sqrt 2 + 4)
$$
But all this is in hindsight...
edited yesterday
answered yesterday


lhflhf
167k11172404
167k11172404
$begingroup$
How do we know this is the minimal polynomial? What about $x - 50(-1+sqrt{2} + sqrt{2sqrt{2} -1})= 0$?
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
yesterday
$begingroup$
@DavidG.Stork, see my edited answer.
$endgroup$
– lhf
yesterday
$begingroup$
OK... I guess we can assume $x in mathbb{Q}$.
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
How do we know this is the minimal polynomial? What about $x - 50(-1+sqrt{2} + sqrt{2sqrt{2} -1})= 0$?
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
yesterday
$begingroup$
@DavidG.Stork, see my edited answer.
$endgroup$
– lhf
yesterday
$begingroup$
OK... I guess we can assume $x in mathbb{Q}$.
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
yesterday
$begingroup$
How do we know this is the minimal polynomial? What about $x - 50(-1+sqrt{2} + sqrt{2sqrt{2} -1})= 0$?
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
yesterday
$begingroup$
How do we know this is the minimal polynomial? What about $x - 50(-1+sqrt{2} + sqrt{2sqrt{2} -1})= 0$?
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
yesterday
$begingroup$
@DavidG.Stork, see my edited answer.
$endgroup$
– lhf
yesterday
$begingroup$
@DavidG.Stork, see my edited answer.
$endgroup$
– lhf
yesterday
$begingroup$
OK... I guess we can assume $x in mathbb{Q}$.
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
yesterday
$begingroup$
OK... I guess we can assume $x in mathbb{Q}$.
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Thanks for all the colaboration. Due to @labbhattacharjee 's comment, i was able to solve the problem analytically. Solve the equation $x^2+frac{9x^2}{(x+3)^2}=27$ shows that, if we have an equation:
$$a^{2}+b^{2}=k$$
Then, calling $c=frac{ab}{a-b}$, we can manipulate algebraically the expression above:
$$(a-b)^{2}+2c(a-b)-k=0$$
For our problem, let $a=x$, $b=frac{100x}{100+x}$ and $k=100^{2}$. It turns out that $c=100$ and $a-b=frac{x^{2}}{100+x}$. So, if we put $u=frac{x^{2}}{100+x}$, we will have:
$$u^{2}+200u-100^{2}=0$$
Which the only positive root is $100(sqrt{2}-1)$. Solving the equation:
$$frac{x^{2}}{100+x}=100(sqrt{2}-1)$$
The only positive root is $50(sqrt{2}-1+sqrt{-1+2sqrt{2}})$.
Thanks!
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Excellent! @shewlong
$endgroup$
– Dr. Mathva
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Thanks for all the colaboration. Due to @labbhattacharjee 's comment, i was able to solve the problem analytically. Solve the equation $x^2+frac{9x^2}{(x+3)^2}=27$ shows that, if we have an equation:
$$a^{2}+b^{2}=k$$
Then, calling $c=frac{ab}{a-b}$, we can manipulate algebraically the expression above:
$$(a-b)^{2}+2c(a-b)-k=0$$
For our problem, let $a=x$, $b=frac{100x}{100+x}$ and $k=100^{2}$. It turns out that $c=100$ and $a-b=frac{x^{2}}{100+x}$. So, if we put $u=frac{x^{2}}{100+x}$, we will have:
$$u^{2}+200u-100^{2}=0$$
Which the only positive root is $100(sqrt{2}-1)$. Solving the equation:
$$frac{x^{2}}{100+x}=100(sqrt{2}-1)$$
The only positive root is $50(sqrt{2}-1+sqrt{-1+2sqrt{2}})$.
Thanks!
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Excellent! @shewlong
$endgroup$
– Dr. Mathva
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Thanks for all the colaboration. Due to @labbhattacharjee 's comment, i was able to solve the problem analytically. Solve the equation $x^2+frac{9x^2}{(x+3)^2}=27$ shows that, if we have an equation:
$$a^{2}+b^{2}=k$$
Then, calling $c=frac{ab}{a-b}$, we can manipulate algebraically the expression above:
$$(a-b)^{2}+2c(a-b)-k=0$$
For our problem, let $a=x$, $b=frac{100x}{100+x}$ and $k=100^{2}$. It turns out that $c=100$ and $a-b=frac{x^{2}}{100+x}$. So, if we put $u=frac{x^{2}}{100+x}$, we will have:
$$u^{2}+200u-100^{2}=0$$
Which the only positive root is $100(sqrt{2}-1)$. Solving the equation:
$$frac{x^{2}}{100+x}=100(sqrt{2}-1)$$
The only positive root is $50(sqrt{2}-1+sqrt{-1+2sqrt{2}})$.
Thanks!
$endgroup$
Thanks for all the colaboration. Due to @labbhattacharjee 's comment, i was able to solve the problem analytically. Solve the equation $x^2+frac{9x^2}{(x+3)^2}=27$ shows that, if we have an equation:
$$a^{2}+b^{2}=k$$
Then, calling $c=frac{ab}{a-b}$, we can manipulate algebraically the expression above:
$$(a-b)^{2}+2c(a-b)-k=0$$
For our problem, let $a=x$, $b=frac{100x}{100+x}$ and $k=100^{2}$. It turns out that $c=100$ and $a-b=frac{x^{2}}{100+x}$. So, if we put $u=frac{x^{2}}{100+x}$, we will have:
$$u^{2}+200u-100^{2}=0$$
Which the only positive root is $100(sqrt{2}-1)$. Solving the equation:
$$frac{x^{2}}{100+x}=100(sqrt{2}-1)$$
The only positive root is $50(sqrt{2}-1+sqrt{-1+2sqrt{2}})$.
Thanks!
answered 10 hours ago


shewlongshewlong
715
715
$begingroup$
Excellent! @shewlong
$endgroup$
– Dr. Mathva
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Excellent! @shewlong
$endgroup$
– Dr. Mathva
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Excellent! @shewlong
$endgroup$
– Dr. Mathva
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Excellent! @shewlong
$endgroup$
– Dr. Mathva
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Multiplying both sides by $(100+x)^2$, we get
$$
100^2(100+x)^2=x^2(100+x)^2+ 100^2x^2\
Rightarrow100^2[(100+x+x)(100+x-x)]=100^2x^2\
Rightarrow100(100+2x)=x^2\
Rightarrow x^2-200x-10000=0.
$$
You are then able to solve it. The positive root is $100(1+sqrt2)$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Can you explain how you went from step 1 to step 2? I think you've made an error.
$endgroup$
– Clayton
yesterday
$begingroup$
I think there's an error in the solution. The answer is not that.
$endgroup$
– shewlong
yesterday
$begingroup$
The right side is (x(100+x))^2.
$endgroup$
– shewlong
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Multiplying both sides by $(100+x)^2$, we get
$$
100^2(100+x)^2=x^2(100+x)^2+ 100^2x^2\
Rightarrow100^2[(100+x+x)(100+x-x)]=100^2x^2\
Rightarrow100(100+2x)=x^2\
Rightarrow x^2-200x-10000=0.
$$
You are then able to solve it. The positive root is $100(1+sqrt2)$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Can you explain how you went from step 1 to step 2? I think you've made an error.
$endgroup$
– Clayton
yesterday
$begingroup$
I think there's an error in the solution. The answer is not that.
$endgroup$
– shewlong
yesterday
$begingroup$
The right side is (x(100+x))^2.
$endgroup$
– shewlong
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Multiplying both sides by $(100+x)^2$, we get
$$
100^2(100+x)^2=x^2(100+x)^2+ 100^2x^2\
Rightarrow100^2[(100+x+x)(100+x-x)]=100^2x^2\
Rightarrow100(100+2x)=x^2\
Rightarrow x^2-200x-10000=0.
$$
You are then able to solve it. The positive root is $100(1+sqrt2)$.
$endgroup$
Multiplying both sides by $(100+x)^2$, we get
$$
100^2(100+x)^2=x^2(100+x)^2+ 100^2x^2\
Rightarrow100^2[(100+x+x)(100+x-x)]=100^2x^2\
Rightarrow100(100+2x)=x^2\
Rightarrow x^2-200x-10000=0.
$$
You are then able to solve it. The positive root is $100(1+sqrt2)$.
answered yesterday


Holding ArthurHolding Arthur
1,555417
1,555417
$begingroup$
Can you explain how you went from step 1 to step 2? I think you've made an error.
$endgroup$
– Clayton
yesterday
$begingroup$
I think there's an error in the solution. The answer is not that.
$endgroup$
– shewlong
yesterday
$begingroup$
The right side is (x(100+x))^2.
$endgroup$
– shewlong
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Can you explain how you went from step 1 to step 2? I think you've made an error.
$endgroup$
– Clayton
yesterday
$begingroup$
I think there's an error in the solution. The answer is not that.
$endgroup$
– shewlong
yesterday
$begingroup$
The right side is (x(100+x))^2.
$endgroup$
– shewlong
yesterday
$begingroup$
Can you explain how you went from step 1 to step 2? I think you've made an error.
$endgroup$
– Clayton
yesterday
$begingroup$
Can you explain how you went from step 1 to step 2? I think you've made an error.
$endgroup$
– Clayton
yesterday
$begingroup$
I think there's an error in the solution. The answer is not that.
$endgroup$
– shewlong
yesterday
$begingroup$
I think there's an error in the solution. The answer is not that.
$endgroup$
– shewlong
yesterday
$begingroup$
The right side is (x(100+x))^2.
$endgroup$
– shewlong
yesterday
$begingroup$
The right side is (x(100+x))^2.
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– shewlong
yesterday
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RVEzoc9hfEm T iI4njKBq5nPUHy6dzZqJ OZ,tTTgd2NYXkpQX,EHMHtf,4 Kb8MlgOoXLQc
1
$begingroup$
What's wrong with just using the solution from Mathematica?
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
yesterday
2
$begingroup$
It is a problem from a Olympiad contest. You can't use solvers there.
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– shewlong
yesterday
$begingroup$
math.stackexchange.com/questions/2020139/…
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– lab bhattacharjee
yesterday
$begingroup$
Thanks @bhattacharjee with your hint i could solve the problem. I will post my solution later!
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– shewlong
13 hours ago