Is the IBM 5153 color display compatible with the Tandy 1000 16 color modes?












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Is it possible to view games made for Tandy Graphics (TGA, etc) on an IBM 5153 color display connected to an original Tandy 1000 (or 1000/A) in 16 colors?










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    1















    Is it possible to view games made for Tandy Graphics (TGA, etc) on an IBM 5153 color display connected to an original Tandy 1000 (or 1000/A) in 16 colors?










    share|improve this question

























      1












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      Is it possible to view games made for Tandy Graphics (TGA, etc) on an IBM 5153 color display connected to an original Tandy 1000 (or 1000/A) in 16 colors?










      share|improve this question














      Is it possible to view games made for Tandy Graphics (TGA, etc) on an IBM 5153 color display connected to an original Tandy 1000 (or 1000/A) in 16 colors?







      cga tandy-1000






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      asked 5 hours ago









      Quasi_StomachQuasi_Stomach

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          The Tandy 1000 CGA output was essentially like the IBM CGA electrically, and graphics modes were compatible. There was, however, an important difference in text mode. In text mode, the CGA used the middle 200 scan lines of a 262-line frame to display 25 rows of 8 scan lines each, with generous borders on the top and bottom. Using 8 lines per character meant that the bottom row of letters like "g" and "y" would touch the top row of letters like "E" and "T", which was less than ideal for legibility.



          The Tandy 1000 shrinks the top and bottom borders by roughly 12-13 pixels, allowing the text portion of the screen to be expanded from 200 lines to 225 (9 scan lines per row). This substantially improves legibility on screens whose "vertical height" adjustment was set to leave at least 15 or so lines of border visible on the top and bottom. On screens which are adjusted to crop the border more closely to the text, the top and bottom of the Tandy text screen will get cut off.



          I don't recall if the Tandy provided any way to use an 8-dot high font, but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't. The "extra" line was added above the row of text, which meant that an inverse-video "E" would show one line of background above the text and one line below. That would also, however, mean that programming the CRT controller to use 8 dots instead of 9 would cause the bottom scan line of characters like "g" and "y" to be cut off entirely. Avoiding that would have required having a character set ROM which contained two character sets, and would also have required including a means of switching between them.






          share|improve this answer































            2














            Basically yes. TGA (1000EX or similar) signal output (colour/intensity and sync signals) and connector pinout is upward compatible to CGA, thus compatible with CGA monitors. Both produce the very same RGBI signal using the same timing and encoding. TGA just employs more memory, thus being able to supply more colours at higher resolutions.



            After all, TGA is basically a CGA with double the memory (32 KiB) and modes resulting from that - much like the IBM PCjr, which the Tandy 1000 was set against. The TGA II (Tandy 1000 SL/TL/RL and later) doubled that again to 64 KiB, finally enabling 640x200 in full 16 colours.



            At least as long as colour mode is used. Text mode, when used in monochrome setup, is not. The monochrome setting is unique to TGA. Here a single B&W output signal is provided on pin 7, unused by CGA.






            share|improve this answer


























            • Thanks for your answer. Maybe I'm not making myself very clear. I'm specifically asking about the 1000 or 1000/A, and not just about compatibility, but if the IBM CGA display will show the full 16 colors

              – Quasi_Stomach
              5 hours ago











            • @Quasi_Stomach I'm a bit confused, what should compatibility mean else? CGA and Tandy graphics both use the same encoding.

              – Raffzahn
              4 hours ago











            • @Quasi_Stomach I had a similar setup, an EGA card connected to a CGA monitor. 16 colors was no problem but it only supported a resolution up to 640x200.

              – snips-n-snails
              4 hours ago











            • @Raffzahn Compatibility can mean a lot to a lot of different people, but I never assume it means the same for me and someone else. Are you saying that for a Tandy 1000 or 1000/A, the IBM 5153 can display the 16 color graphic modes up to and including 640x200 16-color mode?

              – Quasi_Stomach
              4 hours ago











            • @Quasi_Stomach I get the feeling I do not understand what the issue is you ask for. TGA outputs a TTL RGBI signal and the IBM 5153 takes a exactly the same signal. Tandy 1000s are meant to work with CGA compatible screens. For all practical purpose regarding colour displays, there is no difference between CGA and TGA output. Differences between CGA and TGA are about the signal generation, not the signal itself.

              – Raffzahn
              4 hours ago














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            2 Answers
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            The Tandy 1000 CGA output was essentially like the IBM CGA electrically, and graphics modes were compatible. There was, however, an important difference in text mode. In text mode, the CGA used the middle 200 scan lines of a 262-line frame to display 25 rows of 8 scan lines each, with generous borders on the top and bottom. Using 8 lines per character meant that the bottom row of letters like "g" and "y" would touch the top row of letters like "E" and "T", which was less than ideal for legibility.



            The Tandy 1000 shrinks the top and bottom borders by roughly 12-13 pixels, allowing the text portion of the screen to be expanded from 200 lines to 225 (9 scan lines per row). This substantially improves legibility on screens whose "vertical height" adjustment was set to leave at least 15 or so lines of border visible on the top and bottom. On screens which are adjusted to crop the border more closely to the text, the top and bottom of the Tandy text screen will get cut off.



            I don't recall if the Tandy provided any way to use an 8-dot high font, but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't. The "extra" line was added above the row of text, which meant that an inverse-video "E" would show one line of background above the text and one line below. That would also, however, mean that programming the CRT controller to use 8 dots instead of 9 would cause the bottom scan line of characters like "g" and "y" to be cut off entirely. Avoiding that would have required having a character set ROM which contained two character sets, and would also have required including a means of switching between them.






            share|improve this answer




























              2














              The Tandy 1000 CGA output was essentially like the IBM CGA electrically, and graphics modes were compatible. There was, however, an important difference in text mode. In text mode, the CGA used the middle 200 scan lines of a 262-line frame to display 25 rows of 8 scan lines each, with generous borders on the top and bottom. Using 8 lines per character meant that the bottom row of letters like "g" and "y" would touch the top row of letters like "E" and "T", which was less than ideal for legibility.



              The Tandy 1000 shrinks the top and bottom borders by roughly 12-13 pixels, allowing the text portion of the screen to be expanded from 200 lines to 225 (9 scan lines per row). This substantially improves legibility on screens whose "vertical height" adjustment was set to leave at least 15 or so lines of border visible on the top and bottom. On screens which are adjusted to crop the border more closely to the text, the top and bottom of the Tandy text screen will get cut off.



              I don't recall if the Tandy provided any way to use an 8-dot high font, but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't. The "extra" line was added above the row of text, which meant that an inverse-video "E" would show one line of background above the text and one line below. That would also, however, mean that programming the CRT controller to use 8 dots instead of 9 would cause the bottom scan line of characters like "g" and "y" to be cut off entirely. Avoiding that would have required having a character set ROM which contained two character sets, and would also have required including a means of switching between them.






              share|improve this answer


























                2












                2








                2







                The Tandy 1000 CGA output was essentially like the IBM CGA electrically, and graphics modes were compatible. There was, however, an important difference in text mode. In text mode, the CGA used the middle 200 scan lines of a 262-line frame to display 25 rows of 8 scan lines each, with generous borders on the top and bottom. Using 8 lines per character meant that the bottom row of letters like "g" and "y" would touch the top row of letters like "E" and "T", which was less than ideal for legibility.



                The Tandy 1000 shrinks the top and bottom borders by roughly 12-13 pixels, allowing the text portion of the screen to be expanded from 200 lines to 225 (9 scan lines per row). This substantially improves legibility on screens whose "vertical height" adjustment was set to leave at least 15 or so lines of border visible on the top and bottom. On screens which are adjusted to crop the border more closely to the text, the top and bottom of the Tandy text screen will get cut off.



                I don't recall if the Tandy provided any way to use an 8-dot high font, but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't. The "extra" line was added above the row of text, which meant that an inverse-video "E" would show one line of background above the text and one line below. That would also, however, mean that programming the CRT controller to use 8 dots instead of 9 would cause the bottom scan line of characters like "g" and "y" to be cut off entirely. Avoiding that would have required having a character set ROM which contained two character sets, and would also have required including a means of switching between them.






                share|improve this answer













                The Tandy 1000 CGA output was essentially like the IBM CGA electrically, and graphics modes were compatible. There was, however, an important difference in text mode. In text mode, the CGA used the middle 200 scan lines of a 262-line frame to display 25 rows of 8 scan lines each, with generous borders on the top and bottom. Using 8 lines per character meant that the bottom row of letters like "g" and "y" would touch the top row of letters like "E" and "T", which was less than ideal for legibility.



                The Tandy 1000 shrinks the top and bottom borders by roughly 12-13 pixels, allowing the text portion of the screen to be expanded from 200 lines to 225 (9 scan lines per row). This substantially improves legibility on screens whose "vertical height" adjustment was set to leave at least 15 or so lines of border visible on the top and bottom. On screens which are adjusted to crop the border more closely to the text, the top and bottom of the Tandy text screen will get cut off.



                I don't recall if the Tandy provided any way to use an 8-dot high font, but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't. The "extra" line was added above the row of text, which meant that an inverse-video "E" would show one line of background above the text and one line below. That would also, however, mean that programming the CRT controller to use 8 dots instead of 9 would cause the bottom scan line of characters like "g" and "y" to be cut off entirely. Avoiding that would have required having a character set ROM which contained two character sets, and would also have required including a means of switching between them.







                share|improve this answer












                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer










                answered 2 hours ago









                supercatsupercat

                8,040842




                8,040842























                    2














                    Basically yes. TGA (1000EX or similar) signal output (colour/intensity and sync signals) and connector pinout is upward compatible to CGA, thus compatible with CGA monitors. Both produce the very same RGBI signal using the same timing and encoding. TGA just employs more memory, thus being able to supply more colours at higher resolutions.



                    After all, TGA is basically a CGA with double the memory (32 KiB) and modes resulting from that - much like the IBM PCjr, which the Tandy 1000 was set against. The TGA II (Tandy 1000 SL/TL/RL and later) doubled that again to 64 KiB, finally enabling 640x200 in full 16 colours.



                    At least as long as colour mode is used. Text mode, when used in monochrome setup, is not. The monochrome setting is unique to TGA. Here a single B&W output signal is provided on pin 7, unused by CGA.






                    share|improve this answer


























                    • Thanks for your answer. Maybe I'm not making myself very clear. I'm specifically asking about the 1000 or 1000/A, and not just about compatibility, but if the IBM CGA display will show the full 16 colors

                      – Quasi_Stomach
                      5 hours ago











                    • @Quasi_Stomach I'm a bit confused, what should compatibility mean else? CGA and Tandy graphics both use the same encoding.

                      – Raffzahn
                      4 hours ago











                    • @Quasi_Stomach I had a similar setup, an EGA card connected to a CGA monitor. 16 colors was no problem but it only supported a resolution up to 640x200.

                      – snips-n-snails
                      4 hours ago











                    • @Raffzahn Compatibility can mean a lot to a lot of different people, but I never assume it means the same for me and someone else. Are you saying that for a Tandy 1000 or 1000/A, the IBM 5153 can display the 16 color graphic modes up to and including 640x200 16-color mode?

                      – Quasi_Stomach
                      4 hours ago











                    • @Quasi_Stomach I get the feeling I do not understand what the issue is you ask for. TGA outputs a TTL RGBI signal and the IBM 5153 takes a exactly the same signal. Tandy 1000s are meant to work with CGA compatible screens. For all practical purpose regarding colour displays, there is no difference between CGA and TGA output. Differences between CGA and TGA are about the signal generation, not the signal itself.

                      – Raffzahn
                      4 hours ago


















                    2














                    Basically yes. TGA (1000EX or similar) signal output (colour/intensity and sync signals) and connector pinout is upward compatible to CGA, thus compatible with CGA monitors. Both produce the very same RGBI signal using the same timing and encoding. TGA just employs more memory, thus being able to supply more colours at higher resolutions.



                    After all, TGA is basically a CGA with double the memory (32 KiB) and modes resulting from that - much like the IBM PCjr, which the Tandy 1000 was set against. The TGA II (Tandy 1000 SL/TL/RL and later) doubled that again to 64 KiB, finally enabling 640x200 in full 16 colours.



                    At least as long as colour mode is used. Text mode, when used in monochrome setup, is not. The monochrome setting is unique to TGA. Here a single B&W output signal is provided on pin 7, unused by CGA.






                    share|improve this answer


























                    • Thanks for your answer. Maybe I'm not making myself very clear. I'm specifically asking about the 1000 or 1000/A, and not just about compatibility, but if the IBM CGA display will show the full 16 colors

                      – Quasi_Stomach
                      5 hours ago











                    • @Quasi_Stomach I'm a bit confused, what should compatibility mean else? CGA and Tandy graphics both use the same encoding.

                      – Raffzahn
                      4 hours ago











                    • @Quasi_Stomach I had a similar setup, an EGA card connected to a CGA monitor. 16 colors was no problem but it only supported a resolution up to 640x200.

                      – snips-n-snails
                      4 hours ago











                    • @Raffzahn Compatibility can mean a lot to a lot of different people, but I never assume it means the same for me and someone else. Are you saying that for a Tandy 1000 or 1000/A, the IBM 5153 can display the 16 color graphic modes up to and including 640x200 16-color mode?

                      – Quasi_Stomach
                      4 hours ago











                    • @Quasi_Stomach I get the feeling I do not understand what the issue is you ask for. TGA outputs a TTL RGBI signal and the IBM 5153 takes a exactly the same signal. Tandy 1000s are meant to work with CGA compatible screens. For all practical purpose regarding colour displays, there is no difference between CGA and TGA output. Differences between CGA and TGA are about the signal generation, not the signal itself.

                      – Raffzahn
                      4 hours ago
















                    2












                    2








                    2







                    Basically yes. TGA (1000EX or similar) signal output (colour/intensity and sync signals) and connector pinout is upward compatible to CGA, thus compatible with CGA monitors. Both produce the very same RGBI signal using the same timing and encoding. TGA just employs more memory, thus being able to supply more colours at higher resolutions.



                    After all, TGA is basically a CGA with double the memory (32 KiB) and modes resulting from that - much like the IBM PCjr, which the Tandy 1000 was set against. The TGA II (Tandy 1000 SL/TL/RL and later) doubled that again to 64 KiB, finally enabling 640x200 in full 16 colours.



                    At least as long as colour mode is used. Text mode, when used in monochrome setup, is not. The monochrome setting is unique to TGA. Here a single B&W output signal is provided on pin 7, unused by CGA.






                    share|improve this answer















                    Basically yes. TGA (1000EX or similar) signal output (colour/intensity and sync signals) and connector pinout is upward compatible to CGA, thus compatible with CGA monitors. Both produce the very same RGBI signal using the same timing and encoding. TGA just employs more memory, thus being able to supply more colours at higher resolutions.



                    After all, TGA is basically a CGA with double the memory (32 KiB) and modes resulting from that - much like the IBM PCjr, which the Tandy 1000 was set against. The TGA II (Tandy 1000 SL/TL/RL and later) doubled that again to 64 KiB, finally enabling 640x200 in full 16 colours.



                    At least as long as colour mode is used. Text mode, when used in monochrome setup, is not. The monochrome setting is unique to TGA. Here a single B&W output signal is provided on pin 7, unused by CGA.







                    share|improve this answer














                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer








                    edited 2 hours ago

























                    answered 5 hours ago









                    RaffzahnRaffzahn

                    57k6139232




                    57k6139232













                    • Thanks for your answer. Maybe I'm not making myself very clear. I'm specifically asking about the 1000 or 1000/A, and not just about compatibility, but if the IBM CGA display will show the full 16 colors

                      – Quasi_Stomach
                      5 hours ago











                    • @Quasi_Stomach I'm a bit confused, what should compatibility mean else? CGA and Tandy graphics both use the same encoding.

                      – Raffzahn
                      4 hours ago











                    • @Quasi_Stomach I had a similar setup, an EGA card connected to a CGA monitor. 16 colors was no problem but it only supported a resolution up to 640x200.

                      – snips-n-snails
                      4 hours ago











                    • @Raffzahn Compatibility can mean a lot to a lot of different people, but I never assume it means the same for me and someone else. Are you saying that for a Tandy 1000 or 1000/A, the IBM 5153 can display the 16 color graphic modes up to and including 640x200 16-color mode?

                      – Quasi_Stomach
                      4 hours ago











                    • @Quasi_Stomach I get the feeling I do not understand what the issue is you ask for. TGA outputs a TTL RGBI signal and the IBM 5153 takes a exactly the same signal. Tandy 1000s are meant to work with CGA compatible screens. For all practical purpose regarding colour displays, there is no difference between CGA and TGA output. Differences between CGA and TGA are about the signal generation, not the signal itself.

                      – Raffzahn
                      4 hours ago





















                    • Thanks for your answer. Maybe I'm not making myself very clear. I'm specifically asking about the 1000 or 1000/A, and not just about compatibility, but if the IBM CGA display will show the full 16 colors

                      – Quasi_Stomach
                      5 hours ago











                    • @Quasi_Stomach I'm a bit confused, what should compatibility mean else? CGA and Tandy graphics both use the same encoding.

                      – Raffzahn
                      4 hours ago











                    • @Quasi_Stomach I had a similar setup, an EGA card connected to a CGA monitor. 16 colors was no problem but it only supported a resolution up to 640x200.

                      – snips-n-snails
                      4 hours ago











                    • @Raffzahn Compatibility can mean a lot to a lot of different people, but I never assume it means the same for me and someone else. Are you saying that for a Tandy 1000 or 1000/A, the IBM 5153 can display the 16 color graphic modes up to and including 640x200 16-color mode?

                      – Quasi_Stomach
                      4 hours ago











                    • @Quasi_Stomach I get the feeling I do not understand what the issue is you ask for. TGA outputs a TTL RGBI signal and the IBM 5153 takes a exactly the same signal. Tandy 1000s are meant to work with CGA compatible screens. For all practical purpose regarding colour displays, there is no difference between CGA and TGA output. Differences between CGA and TGA are about the signal generation, not the signal itself.

                      – Raffzahn
                      4 hours ago



















                    Thanks for your answer. Maybe I'm not making myself very clear. I'm specifically asking about the 1000 or 1000/A, and not just about compatibility, but if the IBM CGA display will show the full 16 colors

                    – Quasi_Stomach
                    5 hours ago





                    Thanks for your answer. Maybe I'm not making myself very clear. I'm specifically asking about the 1000 or 1000/A, and not just about compatibility, but if the IBM CGA display will show the full 16 colors

                    – Quasi_Stomach
                    5 hours ago













                    @Quasi_Stomach I'm a bit confused, what should compatibility mean else? CGA and Tandy graphics both use the same encoding.

                    – Raffzahn
                    4 hours ago





                    @Quasi_Stomach I'm a bit confused, what should compatibility mean else? CGA and Tandy graphics both use the same encoding.

                    – Raffzahn
                    4 hours ago













                    @Quasi_Stomach I had a similar setup, an EGA card connected to a CGA monitor. 16 colors was no problem but it only supported a resolution up to 640x200.

                    – snips-n-snails
                    4 hours ago





                    @Quasi_Stomach I had a similar setup, an EGA card connected to a CGA monitor. 16 colors was no problem but it only supported a resolution up to 640x200.

                    – snips-n-snails
                    4 hours ago













                    @Raffzahn Compatibility can mean a lot to a lot of different people, but I never assume it means the same for me and someone else. Are you saying that for a Tandy 1000 or 1000/A, the IBM 5153 can display the 16 color graphic modes up to and including 640x200 16-color mode?

                    – Quasi_Stomach
                    4 hours ago





                    @Raffzahn Compatibility can mean a lot to a lot of different people, but I never assume it means the same for me and someone else. Are you saying that for a Tandy 1000 or 1000/A, the IBM 5153 can display the 16 color graphic modes up to and including 640x200 16-color mode?

                    – Quasi_Stomach
                    4 hours ago













                    @Quasi_Stomach I get the feeling I do not understand what the issue is you ask for. TGA outputs a TTL RGBI signal and the IBM 5153 takes a exactly the same signal. Tandy 1000s are meant to work with CGA compatible screens. For all practical purpose regarding colour displays, there is no difference between CGA and TGA output. Differences between CGA and TGA are about the signal generation, not the signal itself.

                    – Raffzahn
                    4 hours ago







                    @Quasi_Stomach I get the feeling I do not understand what the issue is you ask for. TGA outputs a TTL RGBI signal and the IBM 5153 takes a exactly the same signal. Tandy 1000s are meant to work with CGA compatible screens. For all practical purpose regarding colour displays, there is no difference between CGA and TGA output. Differences between CGA and TGA are about the signal generation, not the signal itself.

                    – Raffzahn
                    4 hours ago




















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