No compassion, goodwill for oneself?
Someone, possible thought it might be compassionate, stated:
Also (next to compassion), when you spread loving kindness, do NOT spread it to yourself. No where in any discourse does the Buddha says to spread loving kindness to your self. All the places when Buddha talks about metta, he says to spread loving kindness to all beings in each directions.
Possible to have real compassion or/and goodwill, not to speak about mudita and upekkha, without having one self floated with it.
So is this true or the very base not traced? Possible Nihilist-Trap? Possible that certain Kings at Buddhas times have been wiser and more compassionate as intellectuals may ever be? Possible not seen the qualities of Ariyasāvakas and thought in common terms?
[Note: this question is one of compassion and not thought for trade, exchange, stackes, Buddh-ism, or what ever binds to the low.]
brahmavihara
New contributor
add a comment |
Someone, possible thought it might be compassionate, stated:
Also (next to compassion), when you spread loving kindness, do NOT spread it to yourself. No where in any discourse does the Buddha says to spread loving kindness to your self. All the places when Buddha talks about metta, he says to spread loving kindness to all beings in each directions.
Possible to have real compassion or/and goodwill, not to speak about mudita and upekkha, without having one self floated with it.
So is this true or the very base not traced? Possible Nihilist-Trap? Possible that certain Kings at Buddhas times have been wiser and more compassionate as intellectuals may ever be? Possible not seen the qualities of Ariyasāvakas and thought in common terms?
[Note: this question is one of compassion and not thought for trade, exchange, stackes, Buddh-ism, or what ever binds to the low.]
brahmavihara
New contributor
"he says to spread loving kindness to all beings in each directions.", Hmm, isn't the practitioner himself also a being among all beings? ;o)
– santa100
1 hour ago
Ahara-hunts already exclude themselves...Nyom @santa100
– Samana Johann
34 mins ago
add a comment |
Someone, possible thought it might be compassionate, stated:
Also (next to compassion), when you spread loving kindness, do NOT spread it to yourself. No where in any discourse does the Buddha says to spread loving kindness to your self. All the places when Buddha talks about metta, he says to spread loving kindness to all beings in each directions.
Possible to have real compassion or/and goodwill, not to speak about mudita and upekkha, without having one self floated with it.
So is this true or the very base not traced? Possible Nihilist-Trap? Possible that certain Kings at Buddhas times have been wiser and more compassionate as intellectuals may ever be? Possible not seen the qualities of Ariyasāvakas and thought in common terms?
[Note: this question is one of compassion and not thought for trade, exchange, stackes, Buddh-ism, or what ever binds to the low.]
brahmavihara
New contributor
Someone, possible thought it might be compassionate, stated:
Also (next to compassion), when you spread loving kindness, do NOT spread it to yourself. No where in any discourse does the Buddha says to spread loving kindness to your self. All the places when Buddha talks about metta, he says to spread loving kindness to all beings in each directions.
Possible to have real compassion or/and goodwill, not to speak about mudita and upekkha, without having one self floated with it.
So is this true or the very base not traced? Possible Nihilist-Trap? Possible that certain Kings at Buddhas times have been wiser and more compassionate as intellectuals may ever be? Possible not seen the qualities of Ariyasāvakas and thought in common terms?
[Note: this question is one of compassion and not thought for trade, exchange, stackes, Buddh-ism, or what ever binds to the low.]
brahmavihara
brahmavihara
New contributor
New contributor
edited 9 hours ago
Samana Johann
New contributor
asked 9 hours ago
Samana JohannSamana Johann
143
143
New contributor
New contributor
"he says to spread loving kindness to all beings in each directions.", Hmm, isn't the practitioner himself also a being among all beings? ;o)
– santa100
1 hour ago
Ahara-hunts already exclude themselves...Nyom @santa100
– Samana Johann
34 mins ago
add a comment |
"he says to spread loving kindness to all beings in each directions.", Hmm, isn't the practitioner himself also a being among all beings? ;o)
– santa100
1 hour ago
Ahara-hunts already exclude themselves...Nyom @santa100
– Samana Johann
34 mins ago
"he says to spread loving kindness to all beings in each directions.", Hmm, isn't the practitioner himself also a being among all beings? ;o)
– santa100
1 hour ago
"he says to spread loving kindness to all beings in each directions.", Hmm, isn't the practitioner himself also a being among all beings? ;o)
– santa100
1 hour ago
Ahara-hunts already exclude themselves...Nyom @santa100
– Samana Johann
34 mins ago
Ahara-hunts already exclude themselves...Nyom @santa100
– Samana Johann
34 mins ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
Samma sankappa, thought of renunciation, and samadhi is compassion and goodwill for oneself. It is how you behave when you are alone, so according to people who translate sila as morality, that's not sila (but it is indeed sila).
For other people, you have thought of non-arming, thought of amity, metta, mudita and so on.
That's how the metta sutta starts, yes. What about the Bamboo acrobatic? No compassion, goodwill for oneself first?
– Samana Johann
9 hours ago
add a comment |
The metta sutta was probably addressed to monks because the stanza opens with already being established in the noble eightfold path, as follows:
This is what should be done
By one who is skilled in goodness,
And who knows the path of peace:
Let them be able and upright,
Straightforward and gentle in speech,
Humble and not conceited,
Contented and easily satisfied,
Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways.
Peaceful and calm and wise and skillful,
Not proud or demanding in nature.
Let them not do the slightest thing
That the wise would later reprove.
Wishing: In gladness and in safety,
May all beings be at ease.
Also, the Buddha indeed mentioned to care first for oneself and then for others. This is not egoism, but intelligent self-care. The dhammapada states:
One should first establish oneself in what is proper; then only one should teach others. A wise man should not incur reproach.
Dhammapada 158
By oneself indeed is evil done and by oneself is one defiled; by oneself is evil not done and by oneself is one purified. Purity and impurity depend entirely on oneself; no one can purify another.
Dhammapada 165
For the sake of another's benefit, however great it may be, do not neglect one's own (moral) benefit. Clearly perceiving one's own benefit one should make every effort to attain it.
Dhammapada 166
Also, the Buddha was a proponent of flexibility in his approach. You might know this as conventional language (to lay people) and absolute (to monks). The teachings on both addressee vary. Sometimes, the Buddha remained even silent because it was not connected to the goal, i.e., reduce suffering (& Nibbana).
Take for example MN 20 or Capala Sutta AN 7.58. In both suttas Buddha gave a number of strategies that can be employed. The idea is to be flexible and to see what works in any given time. 'Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't'. 'If it doesn't, let me use this instead'.
Metta practise is allways discripet with "There is the case where a Ariyasāvaka..." i.e. Noble One. One not arived there did not have compassion and goodwill for himselve till now, not capable for this practice.
– Samana Johann
36 mins ago
add a comment |
What is said there is when you practice loving kindness, you should NOT say "May I be" or "May my so and so be" because in those cases you are putting your self before others.
Buddha never says "May I be well, etc." instead Buddha says in any discourse when he is talking about loving kindness (metta) he says to practice as "May all beings be...".
However, that does not mean disparage yourself.
On one hand it means boundless - no boundary around me or my ones. For example, if you put yourself or your child first, what happens to the loving kindness when a deadly snake is about to bite you or your child? Will you kill the snake?
Even more importantly, when you say "May I be...", you are feeding the identity view (sakkayaditti). Every discourse of the Buddha is a path to Nibbana. Good example is metta-sutta in Suttanipata. To attain Nibbana you need to remove identity-view. Therefore the practice of loving kindness that Buddha teaches will not say "May I be...".
Thanks to this great teacher and explanation of Loving kindness meditation, I too got to learn about this.
New contributor
Maybe love/attachment is mistaken wirh compassion and goodwill?
– Samana Johann
41 mins ago
And: So Billion of practicer since tausands of years got it wrong as well.
– Samana Johann
30 mins ago
And: So Billion of practicer since tausands of years got it wrong as well.
– Samana Johann
30 mins ago
add a comment |
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Samma sankappa, thought of renunciation, and samadhi is compassion and goodwill for oneself. It is how you behave when you are alone, so according to people who translate sila as morality, that's not sila (but it is indeed sila).
For other people, you have thought of non-arming, thought of amity, metta, mudita and so on.
That's how the metta sutta starts, yes. What about the Bamboo acrobatic? No compassion, goodwill for oneself first?
– Samana Johann
9 hours ago
add a comment |
Samma sankappa, thought of renunciation, and samadhi is compassion and goodwill for oneself. It is how you behave when you are alone, so according to people who translate sila as morality, that's not sila (but it is indeed sila).
For other people, you have thought of non-arming, thought of amity, metta, mudita and so on.
That's how the metta sutta starts, yes. What about the Bamboo acrobatic? No compassion, goodwill for oneself first?
– Samana Johann
9 hours ago
add a comment |
Samma sankappa, thought of renunciation, and samadhi is compassion and goodwill for oneself. It is how you behave when you are alone, so according to people who translate sila as morality, that's not sila (but it is indeed sila).
For other people, you have thought of non-arming, thought of amity, metta, mudita and so on.
Samma sankappa, thought of renunciation, and samadhi is compassion and goodwill for oneself. It is how you behave when you are alone, so according to people who translate sila as morality, that's not sila (but it is indeed sila).
For other people, you have thought of non-arming, thought of amity, metta, mudita and so on.
answered 9 hours ago
user12901user12901
1301
1301
That's how the metta sutta starts, yes. What about the Bamboo acrobatic? No compassion, goodwill for oneself first?
– Samana Johann
9 hours ago
add a comment |
That's how the metta sutta starts, yes. What about the Bamboo acrobatic? No compassion, goodwill for oneself first?
– Samana Johann
9 hours ago
That's how the metta sutta starts, yes. What about the Bamboo acrobatic? No compassion, goodwill for oneself first?
– Samana Johann
9 hours ago
That's how the metta sutta starts, yes. What about the Bamboo acrobatic? No compassion, goodwill for oneself first?
– Samana Johann
9 hours ago
add a comment |
The metta sutta was probably addressed to monks because the stanza opens with already being established in the noble eightfold path, as follows:
This is what should be done
By one who is skilled in goodness,
And who knows the path of peace:
Let them be able and upright,
Straightforward and gentle in speech,
Humble and not conceited,
Contented and easily satisfied,
Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways.
Peaceful and calm and wise and skillful,
Not proud or demanding in nature.
Let them not do the slightest thing
That the wise would later reprove.
Wishing: In gladness and in safety,
May all beings be at ease.
Also, the Buddha indeed mentioned to care first for oneself and then for others. This is not egoism, but intelligent self-care. The dhammapada states:
One should first establish oneself in what is proper; then only one should teach others. A wise man should not incur reproach.
Dhammapada 158
By oneself indeed is evil done and by oneself is one defiled; by oneself is evil not done and by oneself is one purified. Purity and impurity depend entirely on oneself; no one can purify another.
Dhammapada 165
For the sake of another's benefit, however great it may be, do not neglect one's own (moral) benefit. Clearly perceiving one's own benefit one should make every effort to attain it.
Dhammapada 166
Also, the Buddha was a proponent of flexibility in his approach. You might know this as conventional language (to lay people) and absolute (to monks). The teachings on both addressee vary. Sometimes, the Buddha remained even silent because it was not connected to the goal, i.e., reduce suffering (& Nibbana).
Take for example MN 20 or Capala Sutta AN 7.58. In both suttas Buddha gave a number of strategies that can be employed. The idea is to be flexible and to see what works in any given time. 'Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't'. 'If it doesn't, let me use this instead'.
Metta practise is allways discripet with "There is the case where a Ariyasāvaka..." i.e. Noble One. One not arived there did not have compassion and goodwill for himselve till now, not capable for this practice.
– Samana Johann
36 mins ago
add a comment |
The metta sutta was probably addressed to monks because the stanza opens with already being established in the noble eightfold path, as follows:
This is what should be done
By one who is skilled in goodness,
And who knows the path of peace:
Let them be able and upright,
Straightforward and gentle in speech,
Humble and not conceited,
Contented and easily satisfied,
Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways.
Peaceful and calm and wise and skillful,
Not proud or demanding in nature.
Let them not do the slightest thing
That the wise would later reprove.
Wishing: In gladness and in safety,
May all beings be at ease.
Also, the Buddha indeed mentioned to care first for oneself and then for others. This is not egoism, but intelligent self-care. The dhammapada states:
One should first establish oneself in what is proper; then only one should teach others. A wise man should not incur reproach.
Dhammapada 158
By oneself indeed is evil done and by oneself is one defiled; by oneself is evil not done and by oneself is one purified. Purity and impurity depend entirely on oneself; no one can purify another.
Dhammapada 165
For the sake of another's benefit, however great it may be, do not neglect one's own (moral) benefit. Clearly perceiving one's own benefit one should make every effort to attain it.
Dhammapada 166
Also, the Buddha was a proponent of flexibility in his approach. You might know this as conventional language (to lay people) and absolute (to monks). The teachings on both addressee vary. Sometimes, the Buddha remained even silent because it was not connected to the goal, i.e., reduce suffering (& Nibbana).
Take for example MN 20 or Capala Sutta AN 7.58. In both suttas Buddha gave a number of strategies that can be employed. The idea is to be flexible and to see what works in any given time. 'Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't'. 'If it doesn't, let me use this instead'.
Metta practise is allways discripet with "There is the case where a Ariyasāvaka..." i.e. Noble One. One not arived there did not have compassion and goodwill for himselve till now, not capable for this practice.
– Samana Johann
36 mins ago
add a comment |
The metta sutta was probably addressed to monks because the stanza opens with already being established in the noble eightfold path, as follows:
This is what should be done
By one who is skilled in goodness,
And who knows the path of peace:
Let them be able and upright,
Straightforward and gentle in speech,
Humble and not conceited,
Contented and easily satisfied,
Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways.
Peaceful and calm and wise and skillful,
Not proud or demanding in nature.
Let them not do the slightest thing
That the wise would later reprove.
Wishing: In gladness and in safety,
May all beings be at ease.
Also, the Buddha indeed mentioned to care first for oneself and then for others. This is not egoism, but intelligent self-care. The dhammapada states:
One should first establish oneself in what is proper; then only one should teach others. A wise man should not incur reproach.
Dhammapada 158
By oneself indeed is evil done and by oneself is one defiled; by oneself is evil not done and by oneself is one purified. Purity and impurity depend entirely on oneself; no one can purify another.
Dhammapada 165
For the sake of another's benefit, however great it may be, do not neglect one's own (moral) benefit. Clearly perceiving one's own benefit one should make every effort to attain it.
Dhammapada 166
Also, the Buddha was a proponent of flexibility in his approach. You might know this as conventional language (to lay people) and absolute (to monks). The teachings on both addressee vary. Sometimes, the Buddha remained even silent because it was not connected to the goal, i.e., reduce suffering (& Nibbana).
Take for example MN 20 or Capala Sutta AN 7.58. In both suttas Buddha gave a number of strategies that can be employed. The idea is to be flexible and to see what works in any given time. 'Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't'. 'If it doesn't, let me use this instead'.
The metta sutta was probably addressed to monks because the stanza opens with already being established in the noble eightfold path, as follows:
This is what should be done
By one who is skilled in goodness,
And who knows the path of peace:
Let them be able and upright,
Straightforward and gentle in speech,
Humble and not conceited,
Contented and easily satisfied,
Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways.
Peaceful and calm and wise and skillful,
Not proud or demanding in nature.
Let them not do the slightest thing
That the wise would later reprove.
Wishing: In gladness and in safety,
May all beings be at ease.
Also, the Buddha indeed mentioned to care first for oneself and then for others. This is not egoism, but intelligent self-care. The dhammapada states:
One should first establish oneself in what is proper; then only one should teach others. A wise man should not incur reproach.
Dhammapada 158
By oneself indeed is evil done and by oneself is one defiled; by oneself is evil not done and by oneself is one purified. Purity and impurity depend entirely on oneself; no one can purify another.
Dhammapada 165
For the sake of another's benefit, however great it may be, do not neglect one's own (moral) benefit. Clearly perceiving one's own benefit one should make every effort to attain it.
Dhammapada 166
Also, the Buddha was a proponent of flexibility in his approach. You might know this as conventional language (to lay people) and absolute (to monks). The teachings on both addressee vary. Sometimes, the Buddha remained even silent because it was not connected to the goal, i.e., reduce suffering (& Nibbana).
Take for example MN 20 or Capala Sutta AN 7.58. In both suttas Buddha gave a number of strategies that can be employed. The idea is to be flexible and to see what works in any given time. 'Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't'. 'If it doesn't, let me use this instead'.
edited 7 hours ago
answered 8 hours ago
ValVal
1,118213
1,118213
Metta practise is allways discripet with "There is the case where a Ariyasāvaka..." i.e. Noble One. One not arived there did not have compassion and goodwill for himselve till now, not capable for this practice.
– Samana Johann
36 mins ago
add a comment |
Metta practise is allways discripet with "There is the case where a Ariyasāvaka..." i.e. Noble One. One not arived there did not have compassion and goodwill for himselve till now, not capable for this practice.
– Samana Johann
36 mins ago
Metta practise is allways discripet with "There is the case where a Ariyasāvaka..." i.e. Noble One. One not arived there did not have compassion and goodwill for himselve till now, not capable for this practice.
– Samana Johann
36 mins ago
Metta practise is allways discripet with "There is the case where a Ariyasāvaka..." i.e. Noble One. One not arived there did not have compassion and goodwill for himselve till now, not capable for this practice.
– Samana Johann
36 mins ago
add a comment |
What is said there is when you practice loving kindness, you should NOT say "May I be" or "May my so and so be" because in those cases you are putting your self before others.
Buddha never says "May I be well, etc." instead Buddha says in any discourse when he is talking about loving kindness (metta) he says to practice as "May all beings be...".
However, that does not mean disparage yourself.
On one hand it means boundless - no boundary around me or my ones. For example, if you put yourself or your child first, what happens to the loving kindness when a deadly snake is about to bite you or your child? Will you kill the snake?
Even more importantly, when you say "May I be...", you are feeding the identity view (sakkayaditti). Every discourse of the Buddha is a path to Nibbana. Good example is metta-sutta in Suttanipata. To attain Nibbana you need to remove identity-view. Therefore the practice of loving kindness that Buddha teaches will not say "May I be...".
Thanks to this great teacher and explanation of Loving kindness meditation, I too got to learn about this.
New contributor
Maybe love/attachment is mistaken wirh compassion and goodwill?
– Samana Johann
41 mins ago
And: So Billion of practicer since tausands of years got it wrong as well.
– Samana Johann
30 mins ago
And: So Billion of practicer since tausands of years got it wrong as well.
– Samana Johann
30 mins ago
add a comment |
What is said there is when you practice loving kindness, you should NOT say "May I be" or "May my so and so be" because in those cases you are putting your self before others.
Buddha never says "May I be well, etc." instead Buddha says in any discourse when he is talking about loving kindness (metta) he says to practice as "May all beings be...".
However, that does not mean disparage yourself.
On one hand it means boundless - no boundary around me or my ones. For example, if you put yourself or your child first, what happens to the loving kindness when a deadly snake is about to bite you or your child? Will you kill the snake?
Even more importantly, when you say "May I be...", you are feeding the identity view (sakkayaditti). Every discourse of the Buddha is a path to Nibbana. Good example is metta-sutta in Suttanipata. To attain Nibbana you need to remove identity-view. Therefore the practice of loving kindness that Buddha teaches will not say "May I be...".
Thanks to this great teacher and explanation of Loving kindness meditation, I too got to learn about this.
New contributor
Maybe love/attachment is mistaken wirh compassion and goodwill?
– Samana Johann
41 mins ago
And: So Billion of practicer since tausands of years got it wrong as well.
– Samana Johann
30 mins ago
And: So Billion of practicer since tausands of years got it wrong as well.
– Samana Johann
30 mins ago
add a comment |
What is said there is when you practice loving kindness, you should NOT say "May I be" or "May my so and so be" because in those cases you are putting your self before others.
Buddha never says "May I be well, etc." instead Buddha says in any discourse when he is talking about loving kindness (metta) he says to practice as "May all beings be...".
However, that does not mean disparage yourself.
On one hand it means boundless - no boundary around me or my ones. For example, if you put yourself or your child first, what happens to the loving kindness when a deadly snake is about to bite you or your child? Will you kill the snake?
Even more importantly, when you say "May I be...", you are feeding the identity view (sakkayaditti). Every discourse of the Buddha is a path to Nibbana. Good example is metta-sutta in Suttanipata. To attain Nibbana you need to remove identity-view. Therefore the practice of loving kindness that Buddha teaches will not say "May I be...".
Thanks to this great teacher and explanation of Loving kindness meditation, I too got to learn about this.
New contributor
What is said there is when you practice loving kindness, you should NOT say "May I be" or "May my so and so be" because in those cases you are putting your self before others.
Buddha never says "May I be well, etc." instead Buddha says in any discourse when he is talking about loving kindness (metta) he says to practice as "May all beings be...".
However, that does not mean disparage yourself.
On one hand it means boundless - no boundary around me or my ones. For example, if you put yourself or your child first, what happens to the loving kindness when a deadly snake is about to bite you or your child? Will you kill the snake?
Even more importantly, when you say "May I be...", you are feeding the identity view (sakkayaditti). Every discourse of the Buddha is a path to Nibbana. Good example is metta-sutta in Suttanipata. To attain Nibbana you need to remove identity-view. Therefore the practice of loving kindness that Buddha teaches will not say "May I be...".
Thanks to this great teacher and explanation of Loving kindness meditation, I too got to learn about this.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 5 hours ago
ahtisarwahtisarw
512
512
New contributor
New contributor
Maybe love/attachment is mistaken wirh compassion and goodwill?
– Samana Johann
41 mins ago
And: So Billion of practicer since tausands of years got it wrong as well.
– Samana Johann
30 mins ago
And: So Billion of practicer since tausands of years got it wrong as well.
– Samana Johann
30 mins ago
add a comment |
Maybe love/attachment is mistaken wirh compassion and goodwill?
– Samana Johann
41 mins ago
And: So Billion of practicer since tausands of years got it wrong as well.
– Samana Johann
30 mins ago
And: So Billion of practicer since tausands of years got it wrong as well.
– Samana Johann
30 mins ago
Maybe love/attachment is mistaken wirh compassion and goodwill?
– Samana Johann
41 mins ago
Maybe love/attachment is mistaken wirh compassion and goodwill?
– Samana Johann
41 mins ago
And: So Billion of practicer since tausands of years got it wrong as well.
– Samana Johann
30 mins ago
And: So Billion of practicer since tausands of years got it wrong as well.
– Samana Johann
30 mins ago
And: So Billion of practicer since tausands of years got it wrong as well.
– Samana Johann
30 mins ago
And: So Billion of practicer since tausands of years got it wrong as well.
– Samana Johann
30 mins ago
add a comment |
Samana Johann is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Samana Johann is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Samana Johann is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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"he says to spread loving kindness to all beings in each directions.", Hmm, isn't the practitioner himself also a being among all beings? ;o)
– santa100
1 hour ago
Ahara-hunts already exclude themselves...Nyom @santa100
– Samana Johann
34 mins ago