Why does the Common Agricultural Policy exist?
The Common Agricultural Policy is a system of state grants to farmers in the EU.
Why do farms warrant public funding in this way? Isn’t this, in effect a form of protectionism?
european-union
asked 2 hours ago
BenBen
2,221926
add a comment |
The Common Agricultural Policy is a system of state grants to farmers in the EU.
Why do farms warrant public funding in this way? Isn’t this, in effect a form of protectionism?
european-union
asked 2 hours ago
BenBen
2,221926
Yes, it is protectionism. There is the idea that Europe should be self-sufficient in food, and there was a fear that it wouldn't be self-sufficient without subsidies. Among the other reasons for subsidies, i.e. lobbyism.
– o.m.
1 hour ago
Isn’t the intellectual consensus that protectionism actually harms the economy it is designed to protect? If so, why does this persist? Or am I wrong about the consensus?
– Ben
1 hour ago
Depends on what your goals are. The most efficient agricultural industry in a global market or assured local production of all required food? Note some of the more extreme worries in case of a hard Brexit, because the UK isn't self-sufficient in many foods.
– o.m.
1 hour ago
@Ben That is regularly claimed, by free market theorists, but without strong evidence. It certainly can produce a weak industry without an incentive to innovate. On the other hand, failure to protect some industries can result in total loss of the industry to other countries and devastation of the local economy. This is particularly an issue if competing against other countries who do give subsidies.
– Graham
1 hour ago
I see your point. But if other nations want to state-subsidise food production and then sell that food to the UK, they are in effect paying part of the UK’s food bill. Why am I wrong?
– Ben
41 mins ago
add a comment |
The Common Agricultural Policy is a system of state grants to farmers in the EU.
Why do farms warrant public funding in this way? Isn’t this, in effect a form of protectionism?
european-union
asked 2 hours ago
BenBen
2,221926
The Common Agricultural Policy is a system of state grants to farmers in the EU.
Why do farms warrant public funding in this way? Isn’t this, in effect a form of protectionism?
european-union
european-union
asked 2 hours ago
BenBen
2,221926
asked 2 hours ago
BenBen
2,221926
edited 37 mins ago
Ben
asked 2 hours ago
BenBen
2,221926
asked 2 hours ago
BenBen
2,221926
asked 2 hours ago
BenBen
2,221926
2,221926
Yes, it is protectionism. There is the idea that Europe should be self-sufficient in food, and there was a fear that it wouldn't be self-sufficient without subsidies. Among the other reasons for subsidies, i.e. lobbyism.
– o.m.
1 hour ago
Isn’t the intellectual consensus that protectionism actually harms the economy it is designed to protect? If so, why does this persist? Or am I wrong about the consensus?
– Ben
1 hour ago
Depends on what your goals are. The most efficient agricultural industry in a global market or assured local production of all required food? Note some of the more extreme worries in case of a hard Brexit, because the UK isn't self-sufficient in many foods.
– o.m.
1 hour ago
@Ben That is regularly claimed, by free market theorists, but without strong evidence. It certainly can produce a weak industry without an incentive to innovate. On the other hand, failure to protect some industries can result in total loss of the industry to other countries and devastation of the local economy. This is particularly an issue if competing against other countries who do give subsidies.
– Graham
1 hour ago
I see your point. But if other nations want to state-subsidise food production and then sell that food to the UK, they are in effect paying part of the UK’s food bill. Why am I wrong?
– Ben
41 mins ago
add a comment |
Yes, it is protectionism. There is the idea that Europe should be self-sufficient in food, and there was a fear that it wouldn't be self-sufficient without subsidies. Among the other reasons for subsidies, i.e. lobbyism.
– o.m.
1 hour ago
Isn’t the intellectual consensus that protectionism actually harms the economy it is designed to protect? If so, why does this persist? Or am I wrong about the consensus?
– Ben
1 hour ago
Depends on what your goals are. The most efficient agricultural industry in a global market or assured local production of all required food? Note some of the more extreme worries in case of a hard Brexit, because the UK isn't self-sufficient in many foods.
– o.m.
1 hour ago
@Ben That is regularly claimed, by free market theorists, but without strong evidence. It certainly can produce a weak industry without an incentive to innovate. On the other hand, failure to protect some industries can result in total loss of the industry to other countries and devastation of the local economy. This is particularly an issue if competing against other countries who do give subsidies.
– Graham
1 hour ago
I see your point. But if other nations want to state-subsidise food production and then sell that food to the UK, they are in effect paying part of the UK’s food bill. Why am I wrong?
– Ben
41 mins ago
Yes, it is protectionism. There is the idea that Europe should be self-sufficient in food, and there was a fear that it wouldn't be self-sufficient without subsidies. Among the other reasons for subsidies, i.e. lobbyism.
– o.m.
1 hour ago
Yes, it is protectionism. There is the idea that Europe should be self-sufficient in food, and there was a fear that it wouldn't be self-sufficient without subsidies. Among the other reasons for subsidies, i.e. lobbyism.
– o.m.
1 hour ago
Isn’t the intellectual consensus that protectionism actually harms the economy it is designed to protect? If so, why does this persist? Or am I wrong about the consensus?
– Ben
1 hour ago
Isn’t the intellectual consensus that protectionism actually harms the economy it is designed to protect? If so, why does this persist? Or am I wrong about the consensus?
– Ben
1 hour ago
Depends on what your goals are. The most efficient agricultural industry in a global market or assured local production of all required food? Note some of the more extreme worries in case of a hard Brexit, because the UK isn't self-sufficient in many foods.
– o.m.
1 hour ago
Depends on what your goals are. The most efficient agricultural industry in a global market or assured local production of all required food? Note some of the more extreme worries in case of a hard Brexit, because the UK isn't self-sufficient in many foods.
– o.m.
1 hour ago
@Ben That is regularly claimed, by free market theorists, but without strong evidence. It certainly can produce a weak industry without an incentive to innovate. On the other hand, failure to protect some industries can result in total loss of the industry to other countries and devastation of the local economy. This is particularly an issue if competing against other countries who do give subsidies.
– Graham
1 hour ago
@Ben That is regularly claimed, by free market theorists, but without strong evidence. It certainly can produce a weak industry without an incentive to innovate. On the other hand, failure to protect some industries can result in total loss of the industry to other countries and devastation of the local economy. This is particularly an issue if competing against other countries who do give subsidies.
– Graham
1 hour ago
I see your point. But if other nations want to state-subsidise food production and then sell that food to the UK, they are in effect paying part of the UK’s food bill. Why am I wrong?
– Ben
41 mins ago
I see your point. But if other nations want to state-subsidise food production and then sell that food to the UK, they are in effect paying part of the UK’s food bill. Why am I wrong?
– Ben
41 mins ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
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Farmers receive subsidies in many many countries around the world, including EU countries prior to the CAP, the US, or Switzerland. One justification that's commonly offered is that self-sufficiency is a strategic goal that requires state support. The original policy was also devised when Europe was just coming out of food rationing that lasted for a decade after WWII. Nowadays, this productivity objective has partly been replaced with policies designed to safeguard the landscape and ecosystems through specific agricultural practices. And of course other sectors of the economy also receive subsidies and support from states in various ways.
So what's specific to the CAP is not that farmers receive subsidies, it's that they may not receive subsidies from individual states, instead getting them solely through EU programmes. That's why the CAP was such a large part of the EU budget for many decades (less so now). EU federalists hoped that other sectors would follow but that never happened. In other domains (industry, defense, research, education, healthcare, etc.) individual EU member states fund specific policies or directly subsidizes businesses within the bounds set by EU rules (in particular the rules on “state aid”).
answered 1 hour ago
RelaxedRelaxed
16.6k3558
CAP was 39% of the goal EU budget in 2013. That seems vast. Is it?
– Ben
1 hour ago
2
@Ben Yes, that's what I am referring to in the second paragraph. It's not necessarily a lot of money relative to EU GDP or farm subsidies elsewhere but it's large compared to the EU budget because other “traditional” big spending items (including defense, education or subsidies to industry or transportation) are mostly covered through the member states budget, not the EU budget. The EU budget is far from negligible but not that large relative to the total GDP.
– Relaxed
1 hour ago
Thank you. UK CAP farm payments are about £3.6 billion a year for the current MAF (by my calculations). Do any other sectors receive comparable subsidy?
– Ben
45 mins ago
It is often argued that the reason for massive agricultural subsidies in the EU is that French and German farmers possess massive political clout. It is also argued that agriculture in those countries and throughout much of continental Europe is far less efficient than it is in the UK and the Anglo world. One reason for this has to do with ancient systems of land inheritance, which led to average farm sizes being far larger in Britain. This, in turn, led to much greater economies of scale and hence financial efficiency. Many in Britain argue that the EU "feather-beds" inefficient agriculture.
– WS2
1 min ago
add a comment |
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Farmers receive subsidies in many many countries around the world, including EU countries prior to the CAP, the US, or Switzerland. One justification that's commonly offered is that self-sufficiency is a strategic goal that requires state support. The original policy was also devised when Europe was just coming out of food rationing that lasted for a decade after WWII. Nowadays, this productivity objective has partly been replaced with policies designed to safeguard the landscape and ecosystems through specific agricultural practices. And of course other sectors of the economy also receive subsidies and support from states in various ways.
So what's specific to the CAP is not that farmers receive subsidies, it's that they may not receive subsidies from individual states, instead getting them solely through EU programmes. That's why the CAP was such a large part of the EU budget for many decades (less so now). EU federalists hoped that other sectors would follow but that never happened. In other domains (industry, defense, research, education, healthcare, etc.) individual EU member states fund specific policies or directly subsidizes businesses within the bounds set by EU rules (in particular the rules on “state aid”).
answered 1 hour ago
RelaxedRelaxed
16.6k3558
CAP was 39% of the goal EU budget in 2013. That seems vast. Is it?
– Ben
1 hour ago
2
@Ben Yes, that's what I am referring to in the second paragraph. It's not necessarily a lot of money relative to EU GDP or farm subsidies elsewhere but it's large compared to the EU budget because other “traditional” big spending items (including defense, education or subsidies to industry or transportation) are mostly covered through the member states budget, not the EU budget. The EU budget is far from negligible but not that large relative to the total GDP.
– Relaxed
1 hour ago
Thank you. UK CAP farm payments are about £3.6 billion a year for the current MAF (by my calculations). Do any other sectors receive comparable subsidy?
– Ben
45 mins ago
It is often argued that the reason for massive agricultural subsidies in the EU is that French and German farmers possess massive political clout. It is also argued that agriculture in those countries and throughout much of continental Europe is far less efficient than it is in the UK and the Anglo world. One reason for this has to do with ancient systems of land inheritance, which led to average farm sizes being far larger in Britain. This, in turn, led to much greater economies of scale and hence financial efficiency. Many in Britain argue that the EU "feather-beds" inefficient agriculture.
– WS2
1 min ago
add a comment |
Farmers receive subsidies in many many countries around the world, including EU countries prior to the CAP, the US, or Switzerland. One justification that's commonly offered is that self-sufficiency is a strategic goal that requires state support. The original policy was also devised when Europe was just coming out of food rationing that lasted for a decade after WWII. Nowadays, this productivity objective has partly been replaced with policies designed to safeguard the landscape and ecosystems through specific agricultural practices. And of course other sectors of the economy also receive subsidies and support from states in various ways.
So what's specific to the CAP is not that farmers receive subsidies, it's that they may not receive subsidies from individual states, instead getting them solely through EU programmes. That's why the CAP was such a large part of the EU budget for many decades (less so now). EU federalists hoped that other sectors would follow but that never happened. In other domains (industry, defense, research, education, healthcare, etc.) individual EU member states fund specific policies or directly subsidizes businesses within the bounds set by EU rules (in particular the rules on “state aid”).
answered 1 hour ago
RelaxedRelaxed
16.6k3558
CAP was 39% of the goal EU budget in 2013. That seems vast. Is it?
– Ben
1 hour ago
2
@Ben Yes, that's what I am referring to in the second paragraph. It's not necessarily a lot of money relative to EU GDP or farm subsidies elsewhere but it's large compared to the EU budget because other “traditional” big spending items (including defense, education or subsidies to industry or transportation) are mostly covered through the member states budget, not the EU budget. The EU budget is far from negligible but not that large relative to the total GDP.
– Relaxed
1 hour ago
Thank you. UK CAP farm payments are about £3.6 billion a year for the current MAF (by my calculations). Do any other sectors receive comparable subsidy?
– Ben
45 mins ago
It is often argued that the reason for massive agricultural subsidies in the EU is that French and German farmers possess massive political clout. It is also argued that agriculture in those countries and throughout much of continental Europe is far less efficient than it is in the UK and the Anglo world. One reason for this has to do with ancient systems of land inheritance, which led to average farm sizes being far larger in Britain. This, in turn, led to much greater economies of scale and hence financial efficiency. Many in Britain argue that the EU "feather-beds" inefficient agriculture.
– WS2
1 min ago
add a comment |
Farmers receive subsidies in many many countries around the world, including EU countries prior to the CAP, the US, or Switzerland. One justification that's commonly offered is that self-sufficiency is a strategic goal that requires state support. The original policy was also devised when Europe was just coming out of food rationing that lasted for a decade after WWII. Nowadays, this productivity objective has partly been replaced with policies designed to safeguard the landscape and ecosystems through specific agricultural practices. And of course other sectors of the economy also receive subsidies and support from states in various ways.
So what's specific to the CAP is not that farmers receive subsidies, it's that they may not receive subsidies from individual states, instead getting them solely through EU programmes. That's why the CAP was such a large part of the EU budget for many decades (less so now). EU federalists hoped that other sectors would follow but that never happened. In other domains (industry, defense, research, education, healthcare, etc.) individual EU member states fund specific policies or directly subsidizes businesses within the bounds set by EU rules (in particular the rules on “state aid”).
answered 1 hour ago
RelaxedRelaxed
16.6k3558
Farmers receive subsidies in many many countries around the world, including EU countries prior to the CAP, the US, or Switzerland. One justification that's commonly offered is that self-sufficiency is a strategic goal that requires state support. The original policy was also devised when Europe was just coming out of food rationing that lasted for a decade after WWII. Nowadays, this productivity objective has partly been replaced with policies designed to safeguard the landscape and ecosystems through specific agricultural practices. And of course other sectors of the economy also receive subsidies and support from states in various ways.
So what's specific to the CAP is not that farmers receive subsidies, it's that they may not receive subsidies from individual states, instead getting them solely through EU programmes. That's why the CAP was such a large part of the EU budget for many decades (less so now). EU federalists hoped that other sectors would follow but that never happened. In other domains (industry, defense, research, education, healthcare, etc.) individual EU member states fund specific policies or directly subsidizes businesses within the bounds set by EU rules (in particular the rules on “state aid”).
answered 1 hour ago
RelaxedRelaxed
16.6k3558
answered 1 hour ago
RelaxedRelaxed
16.6k3558
answered 1 hour ago
RelaxedRelaxed
16.6k3558
answered 1 hour ago
RelaxedRelaxed
16.6k3558
16.6k3558
CAP was 39% of the goal EU budget in 2013. That seems vast. Is it?
– Ben
1 hour ago
2
@Ben Yes, that's what I am referring to in the second paragraph. It's not necessarily a lot of money relative to EU GDP or farm subsidies elsewhere but it's large compared to the EU budget because other “traditional” big spending items (including defense, education or subsidies to industry or transportation) are mostly covered through the member states budget, not the EU budget. The EU budget is far from negligible but not that large relative to the total GDP.
– Relaxed
1 hour ago
Thank you. UK CAP farm payments are about £3.6 billion a year for the current MAF (by my calculations). Do any other sectors receive comparable subsidy?
– Ben
45 mins ago
It is often argued that the reason for massive agricultural subsidies in the EU is that French and German farmers possess massive political clout. It is also argued that agriculture in those countries and throughout much of continental Europe is far less efficient than it is in the UK and the Anglo world. One reason for this has to do with ancient systems of land inheritance, which led to average farm sizes being far larger in Britain. This, in turn, led to much greater economies of scale and hence financial efficiency. Many in Britain argue that the EU "feather-beds" inefficient agriculture.
– WS2
1 min ago
add a comment |
CAP was 39% of the goal EU budget in 2013. That seems vast. Is it?
– Ben
1 hour ago
2
@Ben Yes, that's what I am referring to in the second paragraph. It's not necessarily a lot of money relative to EU GDP or farm subsidies elsewhere but it's large compared to the EU budget because other “traditional” big spending items (including defense, education or subsidies to industry or transportation) are mostly covered through the member states budget, not the EU budget. The EU budget is far from negligible but not that large relative to the total GDP.
– Relaxed
1 hour ago
Thank you. UK CAP farm payments are about £3.6 billion a year for the current MAF (by my calculations). Do any other sectors receive comparable subsidy?
– Ben
45 mins ago
It is often argued that the reason for massive agricultural subsidies in the EU is that French and German farmers possess massive political clout. It is also argued that agriculture in those countries and throughout much of continental Europe is far less efficient than it is in the UK and the Anglo world. One reason for this has to do with ancient systems of land inheritance, which led to average farm sizes being far larger in Britain. This, in turn, led to much greater economies of scale and hence financial efficiency. Many in Britain argue that the EU "feather-beds" inefficient agriculture.
– WS2
1 min ago
CAP was 39% of the goal EU budget in 2013. That seems vast. Is it?
– Ben
1 hour ago
CAP was 39% of the goal EU budget in 2013. That seems vast. Is it?
– Ben
1 hour ago
2
2
@Ben Yes, that's what I am referring to in the second paragraph. It's not necessarily a lot of money relative to EU GDP or farm subsidies elsewhere but it's large compared to the EU budget because other “traditional” big spending items (including defense, education or subsidies to industry or transportation) are mostly covered through the member states budget, not the EU budget. The EU budget is far from negligible but not that large relative to the total GDP.
– Relaxed
1 hour ago
@Ben Yes, that's what I am referring to in the second paragraph. It's not necessarily a lot of money relative to EU GDP or farm subsidies elsewhere but it's large compared to the EU budget because other “traditional” big spending items (including defense, education or subsidies to industry or transportation) are mostly covered through the member states budget, not the EU budget. The EU budget is far from negligible but not that large relative to the total GDP.
– Relaxed
1 hour ago
Thank you. UK CAP farm payments are about £3.6 billion a year for the current MAF (by my calculations). Do any other sectors receive comparable subsidy?
– Ben
45 mins ago
Thank you. UK CAP farm payments are about £3.6 billion a year for the current MAF (by my calculations). Do any other sectors receive comparable subsidy?
– Ben
45 mins ago
It is often argued that the reason for massive agricultural subsidies in the EU is that French and German farmers possess massive political clout. It is also argued that agriculture in those countries and throughout much of continental Europe is far less efficient than it is in the UK and the Anglo world. One reason for this has to do with ancient systems of land inheritance, which led to average farm sizes being far larger in Britain. This, in turn, led to much greater economies of scale and hence financial efficiency. Many in Britain argue that the EU "feather-beds" inefficient agriculture.
– WS2
1 min ago
It is often argued that the reason for massive agricultural subsidies in the EU is that French and German farmers possess massive political clout. It is also argued that agriculture in those countries and throughout much of continental Europe is far less efficient than it is in the UK and the Anglo world. One reason for this has to do with ancient systems of land inheritance, which led to average farm sizes being far larger in Britain. This, in turn, led to much greater economies of scale and hence financial efficiency. Many in Britain argue that the EU "feather-beds" inefficient agriculture.
– WS2
1 min ago
add a comment |
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Yes, it is protectionism. There is the idea that Europe should be self-sufficient in food, and there was a fear that it wouldn't be self-sufficient without subsidies. Among the other reasons for subsidies, i.e. lobbyism.
– o.m.
1 hour ago
Isn’t the intellectual consensus that protectionism actually harms the economy it is designed to protect? If so, why does this persist? Or am I wrong about the consensus?
– Ben
1 hour ago
Depends on what your goals are. The most efficient agricultural industry in a global market or assured local production of all required food? Note some of the more extreme worries in case of a hard Brexit, because the UK isn't self-sufficient in many foods.
– o.m.
1 hour ago
@Ben That is regularly claimed, by free market theorists, but without strong evidence. It certainly can produce a weak industry without an incentive to innovate. On the other hand, failure to protect some industries can result in total loss of the industry to other countries and devastation of the local economy. This is particularly an issue if competing against other countries who do give subsidies.
– Graham
1 hour ago
I see your point. But if other nations want to state-subsidise food production and then sell that food to the UK, they are in effect paying part of the UK’s food bill. Why am I wrong?
– Ben
41 mins ago