Stone-age air-force
$begingroup$
Story-based background (not essential for question)
The Helawi live at the top of a small plateau with steep cliffs all around. There is a carved stairway from top to bottom that allows only one person to pass at a time. This is ideal for defence but dreadful for attack.
The Fikawi are camped at the bottom of the stairway and have been ambushing members of the Helawi when they emerge.
The Helawi have discovered this and want to attack but if they send warriors in single file, they will be killed by the Fikawi.
The cliffs contain large sheets of high quality mica. The Helawi who see buzzards flying from and to the cliffs, decide to make fixed wings of mica. They will glide down at night and attack the Fikawi from behind.
Non-story-based question
In theory, could a stone age tribe make an air-force of fixed wing hang-gliders and safely glide from top to bottom of a cliff if the air currents were favourable?
In particular, to keep the stone-age feel, could the wings be made of mica or other mineral-based material?
Assumptions
They have access to leather, wood, animal bones and sinews, flint knives, and large sheets of mica.
Sadly, there is no bamboo in this area - just softwoods such as pine.
Mica
"... micas except glauconite exhibit easily observable perfect cleavage into flexible sheets ..."
"... Micas occuring as large crystals are often called books; these may measure up to several metres across..."
https://www.britannica.com/science/mica
flight stoneage
asked 2 hours ago
chasly from UKchasly from UK
16.4k774147
$endgroup$
|
show 6 more comments
$begingroup$
Story-based background (not essential for question)
The Helawi live at the top of a small plateau with steep cliffs all around. There is a carved stairway from top to bottom that allows only one person to pass at a time. This is ideal for defence but dreadful for attack.
The Fikawi are camped at the bottom of the stairway and have been ambushing members of the Helawi when they emerge.
The Helawi have discovered this and want to attack but if they send warriors in single file, they will be killed by the Fikawi.
The cliffs contain large sheets of high quality mica. The Helawi who see buzzards flying from and to the cliffs, decide to make fixed wings of mica. They will glide down at night and attack the Fikawi from behind.
Non-story-based question
In theory, could a stone age tribe make an air-force of fixed wing hang-gliders and safely glide from top to bottom of a cliff if the air currents were favourable?
In particular, to keep the stone-age feel, could the wings be made of mica or other mineral-based material?
Assumptions
They have access to leather, wood, animal bones and sinews, flint knives, and large sheets of mica.
Sadly, there is no bamboo in this area - just softwoods such as pine.
Mica
"... micas except glauconite exhibit easily observable perfect cleavage into flexible sheets ..."
"... Micas occuring as large crystals are often called books; these may measure up to several metres across..."
https://www.britannica.com/science/mica
flight stoneage
asked 2 hours ago
chasly from UKchasly from UK
16.4k774147
$endgroup$
6
$begingroup$
Mica's Specific strength would be terrible for flying. They would have the best luck with leather wings (which still going to be terrible). In this particular case, Helawi should just rope down from their cliffs in a location where Fikawi don't expect them.
$endgroup$
– Alexander
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Why not just throw rocks off the top? Build a trebuchet or catapult that can send rocks far enough to hit just past whatever resource their people need down there.
$endgroup$
– ShadoCat
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@ShadoCat - In terms of the story, the local topography doesn't allow throwing rocks. In terms of the question I particularly want to find out about gliders.
$endgroup$
– chasly from UK
1 hour ago
1
$begingroup$
"I particularly want to find out about gliders" Sure, but you're asking how to make usable man-carrying gliders out of stone, mica is both far too brittle & far too heavy for what you want to use it for, you might as well ask for suggestions on how to build a hang-glider with wings made from slate or glass.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
How big is this tribe? If it's only a few family units, the deaths of several able-bodied young men during the development of such a glider could be devastating. They aren't going to get this right on the first try.
$endgroup$
– Nuclear Wang
1 hour ago
|
show 6 more comments
$begingroup$
Story-based background (not essential for question)
The Helawi live at the top of a small plateau with steep cliffs all around. There is a carved stairway from top to bottom that allows only one person to pass at a time. This is ideal for defence but dreadful for attack.
The Fikawi are camped at the bottom of the stairway and have been ambushing members of the Helawi when they emerge.
The Helawi have discovered this and want to attack but if they send warriors in single file, they will be killed by the Fikawi.
The cliffs contain large sheets of high quality mica. The Helawi who see buzzards flying from and to the cliffs, decide to make fixed wings of mica. They will glide down at night and attack the Fikawi from behind.
Non-story-based question
In theory, could a stone age tribe make an air-force of fixed wing hang-gliders and safely glide from top to bottom of a cliff if the air currents were favourable?
In particular, to keep the stone-age feel, could the wings be made of mica or other mineral-based material?
Assumptions
They have access to leather, wood, animal bones and sinews, flint knives, and large sheets of mica.
Sadly, there is no bamboo in this area - just softwoods such as pine.
Mica
"... micas except glauconite exhibit easily observable perfect cleavage into flexible sheets ..."
"... Micas occuring as large crystals are often called books; these may measure up to several metres across..."
https://www.britannica.com/science/mica
flight stoneage
asked 2 hours ago
chasly from UKchasly from UK
16.4k774147
$endgroup$
Story-based background (not essential for question)
The Helawi live at the top of a small plateau with steep cliffs all around. There is a carved stairway from top to bottom that allows only one person to pass at a time. This is ideal for defence but dreadful for attack.
The Fikawi are camped at the bottom of the stairway and have been ambushing members of the Helawi when they emerge.
The Helawi have discovered this and want to attack but if they send warriors in single file, they will be killed by the Fikawi.
The cliffs contain large sheets of high quality mica. The Helawi who see buzzards flying from and to the cliffs, decide to make fixed wings of mica. They will glide down at night and attack the Fikawi from behind.
Non-story-based question
In theory, could a stone age tribe make an air-force of fixed wing hang-gliders and safely glide from top to bottom of a cliff if the air currents were favourable?
In particular, to keep the stone-age feel, could the wings be made of mica or other mineral-based material?
Assumptions
They have access to leather, wood, animal bones and sinews, flint knives, and large sheets of mica.
Sadly, there is no bamboo in this area - just softwoods such as pine.
Mica
"... micas except glauconite exhibit easily observable perfect cleavage into flexible sheets ..."
"... Micas occuring as large crystals are often called books; these may measure up to several metres across..."
https://www.britannica.com/science/mica
flight stoneage
flight stoneage
asked 2 hours ago
chasly from UKchasly from UK
16.4k774147
asked 2 hours ago
chasly from UKchasly from UK
16.4k774147
edited 35 mins ago
chasly from UK
asked 2 hours ago
chasly from UKchasly from UK
16.4k774147
asked 2 hours ago
chasly from UKchasly from UK
16.4k774147
asked 2 hours ago
chasly from UKchasly from UK
16.4k774147
16.4k774147
6
$begingroup$
Mica's Specific strength would be terrible for flying. They would have the best luck with leather wings (which still going to be terrible). In this particular case, Helawi should just rope down from their cliffs in a location where Fikawi don't expect them.
$endgroup$
– Alexander
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Why not just throw rocks off the top? Build a trebuchet or catapult that can send rocks far enough to hit just past whatever resource their people need down there.
$endgroup$
– ShadoCat
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@ShadoCat - In terms of the story, the local topography doesn't allow throwing rocks. In terms of the question I particularly want to find out about gliders.
$endgroup$
– chasly from UK
1 hour ago
1
$begingroup$
"I particularly want to find out about gliders" Sure, but you're asking how to make usable man-carrying gliders out of stone, mica is both far too brittle & far too heavy for what you want to use it for, you might as well ask for suggestions on how to build a hang-glider with wings made from slate or glass.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
How big is this tribe? If it's only a few family units, the deaths of several able-bodied young men during the development of such a glider could be devastating. They aren't going to get this right on the first try.
$endgroup$
– Nuclear Wang
1 hour ago
|
show 6 more comments
6
$begingroup$
Mica's Specific strength would be terrible for flying. They would have the best luck with leather wings (which still going to be terrible). In this particular case, Helawi should just rope down from their cliffs in a location where Fikawi don't expect them.
$endgroup$
– Alexander
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Why not just throw rocks off the top? Build a trebuchet or catapult that can send rocks far enough to hit just past whatever resource their people need down there.
$endgroup$
– ShadoCat
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@ShadoCat - In terms of the story, the local topography doesn't allow throwing rocks. In terms of the question I particularly want to find out about gliders.
$endgroup$
– chasly from UK
1 hour ago
1
$begingroup$
"I particularly want to find out about gliders" Sure, but you're asking how to make usable man-carrying gliders out of stone, mica is both far too brittle & far too heavy for what you want to use it for, you might as well ask for suggestions on how to build a hang-glider with wings made from slate or glass.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
How big is this tribe? If it's only a few family units, the deaths of several able-bodied young men during the development of such a glider could be devastating. They aren't going to get this right on the first try.
$endgroup$
– Nuclear Wang
1 hour ago
6
6
$begingroup$
Mica's Specific strength would be terrible for flying. They would have the best luck with leather wings (which still going to be terrible). In this particular case, Helawi should just rope down from their cliffs in a location where Fikawi don't expect them.
$endgroup$
– Alexander
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Mica's Specific strength would be terrible for flying. They would have the best luck with leather wings (which still going to be terrible). In this particular case, Helawi should just rope down from their cliffs in a location where Fikawi don't expect them.
$endgroup$
– Alexander
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Why not just throw rocks off the top? Build a trebuchet or catapult that can send rocks far enough to hit just past whatever resource their people need down there.
$endgroup$
– ShadoCat
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Why not just throw rocks off the top? Build a trebuchet or catapult that can send rocks far enough to hit just past whatever resource their people need down there.
$endgroup$
– ShadoCat
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@ShadoCat - In terms of the story, the local topography doesn't allow throwing rocks. In terms of the question I particularly want to find out about gliders.
$endgroup$
– chasly from UK
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@ShadoCat - In terms of the story, the local topography doesn't allow throwing rocks. In terms of the question I particularly want to find out about gliders.
$endgroup$
– chasly from UK
1 hour ago
1
1
$begingroup$
"I particularly want to find out about gliders" Sure, but you're asking how to make usable man-carrying gliders out of stone, mica is both far too brittle & far too heavy for what you want to use it for, you might as well ask for suggestions on how to build a hang-glider with wings made from slate or glass.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
"I particularly want to find out about gliders" Sure, but you're asking how to make usable man-carrying gliders out of stone, mica is both far too brittle & far too heavy for what you want to use it for, you might as well ask for suggestions on how to build a hang-glider with wings made from slate or glass.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
How big is this tribe? If it's only a few family units, the deaths of several able-bodied young men during the development of such a glider could be devastating. They aren't going to get this right on the first try.
$endgroup$
– Nuclear Wang
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
How big is this tribe? If it's only a few family units, the deaths of several able-bodied young men during the development of such a glider could be devastating. They aren't going to get this right on the first try.
$endgroup$
– Nuclear Wang
1 hour ago
|
show 6 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
There are speculations that the Nazca drawings were visible to the artists who made them since they used some means to fly, and the speculated means include some sort of glider.
Not made of mica, but probably wood and leather to ensure a minimum of lift force.
So, if I had to go for something I would opt for leather. Or, just use baskets to get down from the cliffs from an unsurveilled place.
answered 2 hours ago
L.Dutch♦L.Dutch
84k28201412
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
"There are speculations that the Nazca drawings were visible to the artists who made them since they used some means to fly" You'd have to admit it's pretty silly speculation though, especially when a simple pole scaffold would serve to view them from above just as well & even more so when people (including those making them) don't need to see them from a great height to be able to visualize what they must look like from above.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
1 hour ago
2
$begingroup$
"There are speculations" really needs you to cite at least one link to these speculations so people can judge for themselves.
$endgroup$
– StephenG
1 hour ago
2
$begingroup$
"There are speculations". Well. I'm glad you had the grace not to claim that "There are credible speculations".
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
20 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As @Alexander pointed out in his comment, mica would be terrible. To get it thick enough to be strong enough, it would be too heavy.
Wood and canvas work. Just look at the WWII gliders (wiki). Those started out being towed by propeller driven aircraft to get to altitude but you don't need that here.
Here is a list of gliders used by different countries to give you an idea of different design types.
You could also go with simple parachutes.
However, I am concerned that whatever is preventing a dropping rock from hitting the Fikawi on their heads may prevent the gliders from reaching them as well.
answered 1 hour ago
ShadoCatShadoCat
14.8k1851
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Unfortunately they haven't discovered weaving, especially the fine weaving and varnish needed for a glider.
$endgroup$
– chasly from UK
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@chaslyfromUK, the gliders don't have to be good, they just have to get people down. I'd be tempted to build a high ridge that goes off to the side and make lots of rope. You send a bunch of people repelling down the final length.
$endgroup$
– ShadoCat
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In theory, could a stone age tribe make an air-force of fixed wing
hang-gliders and safely glide from top to bottom of a cliff if the air
currents were favourable?
Well, maybe, but not your stone-age tribe.
The problem is, not neccessarily using mica. If you like, you can wave your hands a lot and postulate that the mica available is found in improbably large perfect sheets. There have been very large mica crystals found in places like Canada and Russia with the desired size, but they are riddled with imperfections, and this will make any large-scale construction extremely difficult. With some practice, the natives might learn to peel off very large, thin perfect sheets and use them for skins. This has problems, since sheets thick enough to be self-supporting will be waaaay too heavy to use, and wrapping thin skins around a wooden wing framework which just happens to have a useful airfoil shape is pretty outrageous. What sort of mushrooms are your people smoking in order to get revelations of the needed geometry?
Once you get past that, I suspect sufficiently thin mica would actually work, since animal glue ought to adhere satisfactorily, and very thin sheets ought to bend well.
So, if you want to stretch credulity to the breaking point, you might, maybe, if the reader has been doing 'ludes or maybe X, and is feeling very mellow, get away with it.
No, the problem is that of first flight. The tribe lives on top of a small plateau. The only way to learn how to control a glider is to practice, and this is usually done on low slopes with just enough slope that the novice doesn't get too high and get badly injured in the inevitable crash. In your case, the only way to learn is to strap a glider on and run over the edge. Y'know, earn while you learn.
And this is not going to end well unless you invoke authorial privilege in ways which will cause most readers to throw the book across the room.
answered 5 mins ago
WhatRoughBeastWhatRoughBeast
22.9k23280
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
"this is not going to end well unless you invoke authorial privilege in ways which will cause most readers to throw the book across the room" a [+] just for that line alone.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
1 min ago
add a comment |
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
There are speculations that the Nazca drawings were visible to the artists who made them since they used some means to fly, and the speculated means include some sort of glider.
Not made of mica, but probably wood and leather to ensure a minimum of lift force.
So, if I had to go for something I would opt for leather. Or, just use baskets to get down from the cliffs from an unsurveilled place.
answered 2 hours ago
L.Dutch♦L.Dutch
84k28201412
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
"There are speculations that the Nazca drawings were visible to the artists who made them since they used some means to fly" You'd have to admit it's pretty silly speculation though, especially when a simple pole scaffold would serve to view them from above just as well & even more so when people (including those making them) don't need to see them from a great height to be able to visualize what they must look like from above.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
1 hour ago
2
$begingroup$
"There are speculations" really needs you to cite at least one link to these speculations so people can judge for themselves.
$endgroup$
– StephenG
1 hour ago
2
$begingroup$
"There are speculations". Well. I'm glad you had the grace not to claim that "There are credible speculations".
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
20 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There are speculations that the Nazca drawings were visible to the artists who made them since they used some means to fly, and the speculated means include some sort of glider.
Not made of mica, but probably wood and leather to ensure a minimum of lift force.
So, if I had to go for something I would opt for leather. Or, just use baskets to get down from the cliffs from an unsurveilled place.
answered 2 hours ago
L.Dutch♦L.Dutch
84k28201412
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
"There are speculations that the Nazca drawings were visible to the artists who made them since they used some means to fly" You'd have to admit it's pretty silly speculation though, especially when a simple pole scaffold would serve to view them from above just as well & even more so when people (including those making them) don't need to see them from a great height to be able to visualize what they must look like from above.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
1 hour ago
2
$begingroup$
"There are speculations" really needs you to cite at least one link to these speculations so people can judge for themselves.
$endgroup$
– StephenG
1 hour ago
2
$begingroup$
"There are speculations". Well. I'm glad you had the grace not to claim that "There are credible speculations".
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
20 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There are speculations that the Nazca drawings were visible to the artists who made them since they used some means to fly, and the speculated means include some sort of glider.
Not made of mica, but probably wood and leather to ensure a minimum of lift force.
So, if I had to go for something I would opt for leather. Or, just use baskets to get down from the cliffs from an unsurveilled place.
answered 2 hours ago
L.Dutch♦L.Dutch
84k28201412
$endgroup$
There are speculations that the Nazca drawings were visible to the artists who made them since they used some means to fly, and the speculated means include some sort of glider.
Not made of mica, but probably wood and leather to ensure a minimum of lift force.
So, if I had to go for something I would opt for leather. Or, just use baskets to get down from the cliffs from an unsurveilled place.
answered 2 hours ago
L.Dutch♦L.Dutch
84k28201412
answered 2 hours ago
L.Dutch♦L.Dutch
84k28201412
answered 2 hours ago
L.Dutch♦L.Dutch
84k28201412
answered 2 hours ago
L.Dutch♦L.Dutch
84k28201412
84k28201412
2
$begingroup$
"There are speculations that the Nazca drawings were visible to the artists who made them since they used some means to fly" You'd have to admit it's pretty silly speculation though, especially when a simple pole scaffold would serve to view them from above just as well & even more so when people (including those making them) don't need to see them from a great height to be able to visualize what they must look like from above.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
1 hour ago
2
$begingroup$
"There are speculations" really needs you to cite at least one link to these speculations so people can judge for themselves.
$endgroup$
– StephenG
1 hour ago
2
$begingroup$
"There are speculations". Well. I'm glad you had the grace not to claim that "There are credible speculations".
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
20 mins ago
add a comment |
2
$begingroup$
"There are speculations that the Nazca drawings were visible to the artists who made them since they used some means to fly" You'd have to admit it's pretty silly speculation though, especially when a simple pole scaffold would serve to view them from above just as well & even more so when people (including those making them) don't need to see them from a great height to be able to visualize what they must look like from above.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
1 hour ago
2
$begingroup$
"There are speculations" really needs you to cite at least one link to these speculations so people can judge for themselves.
$endgroup$
– StephenG
1 hour ago
2
$begingroup$
"There are speculations". Well. I'm glad you had the grace not to claim that "There are credible speculations".
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
20 mins ago
2
2
$begingroup$
"There are speculations that the Nazca drawings were visible to the artists who made them since they used some means to fly" You'd have to admit it's pretty silly speculation though, especially when a simple pole scaffold would serve to view them from above just as well & even more so when people (including those making them) don't need to see them from a great height to be able to visualize what they must look like from above.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
"There are speculations that the Nazca drawings were visible to the artists who made them since they used some means to fly" You'd have to admit it's pretty silly speculation though, especially when a simple pole scaffold would serve to view them from above just as well & even more so when people (including those making them) don't need to see them from a great height to be able to visualize what they must look like from above.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
1 hour ago
2
2
$begingroup$
"There are speculations" really needs you to cite at least one link to these speculations so people can judge for themselves.
$endgroup$
– StephenG
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
"There are speculations" really needs you to cite at least one link to these speculations so people can judge for themselves.
$endgroup$
– StephenG
1 hour ago
2
2
$begingroup$
"There are speculations". Well. I'm glad you had the grace not to claim that "There are credible speculations".
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
20 mins ago
$begingroup$
"There are speculations". Well. I'm glad you had the grace not to claim that "There are credible speculations".
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
20 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As @Alexander pointed out in his comment, mica would be terrible. To get it thick enough to be strong enough, it would be too heavy.
Wood and canvas work. Just look at the WWII gliders (wiki). Those started out being towed by propeller driven aircraft to get to altitude but you don't need that here.
Here is a list of gliders used by different countries to give you an idea of different design types.
You could also go with simple parachutes.
However, I am concerned that whatever is preventing a dropping rock from hitting the Fikawi on their heads may prevent the gliders from reaching them as well.
answered 1 hour ago
ShadoCatShadoCat
14.8k1851
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Unfortunately they haven't discovered weaving, especially the fine weaving and varnish needed for a glider.
$endgroup$
– chasly from UK
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@chaslyfromUK, the gliders don't have to be good, they just have to get people down. I'd be tempted to build a high ridge that goes off to the side and make lots of rope. You send a bunch of people repelling down the final length.
$endgroup$
– ShadoCat
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As @Alexander pointed out in his comment, mica would be terrible. To get it thick enough to be strong enough, it would be too heavy.
Wood and canvas work. Just look at the WWII gliders (wiki). Those started out being towed by propeller driven aircraft to get to altitude but you don't need that here.
Here is a list of gliders used by different countries to give you an idea of different design types.
You could also go with simple parachutes.
However, I am concerned that whatever is preventing a dropping rock from hitting the Fikawi on their heads may prevent the gliders from reaching them as well.
answered 1 hour ago
ShadoCatShadoCat
14.8k1851
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Unfortunately they haven't discovered weaving, especially the fine weaving and varnish needed for a glider.
$endgroup$
– chasly from UK
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@chaslyfromUK, the gliders don't have to be good, they just have to get people down. I'd be tempted to build a high ridge that goes off to the side and make lots of rope. You send a bunch of people repelling down the final length.
$endgroup$
– ShadoCat
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As @Alexander pointed out in his comment, mica would be terrible. To get it thick enough to be strong enough, it would be too heavy.
Wood and canvas work. Just look at the WWII gliders (wiki). Those started out being towed by propeller driven aircraft to get to altitude but you don't need that here.
Here is a list of gliders used by different countries to give you an idea of different design types.
You could also go with simple parachutes.
However, I am concerned that whatever is preventing a dropping rock from hitting the Fikawi on their heads may prevent the gliders from reaching them as well.
answered 1 hour ago
ShadoCatShadoCat
14.8k1851
$endgroup$
As @Alexander pointed out in his comment, mica would be terrible. To get it thick enough to be strong enough, it would be too heavy.
Wood and canvas work. Just look at the WWII gliders (wiki). Those started out being towed by propeller driven aircraft to get to altitude but you don't need that here.
Here is a list of gliders used by different countries to give you an idea of different design types.
You could also go with simple parachutes.
However, I am concerned that whatever is preventing a dropping rock from hitting the Fikawi on their heads may prevent the gliders from reaching them as well.
answered 1 hour ago
ShadoCatShadoCat
14.8k1851
answered 1 hour ago
ShadoCatShadoCat
14.8k1851
answered 1 hour ago
ShadoCatShadoCat
14.8k1851
answered 1 hour ago
ShadoCatShadoCat
14.8k1851
14.8k1851
$begingroup$
Unfortunately they haven't discovered weaving, especially the fine weaving and varnish needed for a glider.
$endgroup$
– chasly from UK
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@chaslyfromUK, the gliders don't have to be good, they just have to get people down. I'd be tempted to build a high ridge that goes off to the side and make lots of rope. You send a bunch of people repelling down the final length.
$endgroup$
– ShadoCat
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Unfortunately they haven't discovered weaving, especially the fine weaving and varnish needed for a glider.
$endgroup$
– chasly from UK
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@chaslyfromUK, the gliders don't have to be good, they just have to get people down. I'd be tempted to build a high ridge that goes off to the side and make lots of rope. You send a bunch of people repelling down the final length.
$endgroup$
– ShadoCat
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Unfortunately they haven't discovered weaving, especially the fine weaving and varnish needed for a glider.
$endgroup$
– chasly from UK
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Unfortunately they haven't discovered weaving, especially the fine weaving and varnish needed for a glider.
$endgroup$
– chasly from UK
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@chaslyfromUK, the gliders don't have to be good, they just have to get people down. I'd be tempted to build a high ridge that goes off to the side and make lots of rope. You send a bunch of people repelling down the final length.
$endgroup$
– ShadoCat
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@chaslyfromUK, the gliders don't have to be good, they just have to get people down. I'd be tempted to build a high ridge that goes off to the side and make lots of rope. You send a bunch of people repelling down the final length.
$endgroup$
– ShadoCat
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In theory, could a stone age tribe make an air-force of fixed wing
hang-gliders and safely glide from top to bottom of a cliff if the air
currents were favourable?
Well, maybe, but not your stone-age tribe.
The problem is, not neccessarily using mica. If you like, you can wave your hands a lot and postulate that the mica available is found in improbably large perfect sheets. There have been very large mica crystals found in places like Canada and Russia with the desired size, but they are riddled with imperfections, and this will make any large-scale construction extremely difficult. With some practice, the natives might learn to peel off very large, thin perfect sheets and use them for skins. This has problems, since sheets thick enough to be self-supporting will be waaaay too heavy to use, and wrapping thin skins around a wooden wing framework which just happens to have a useful airfoil shape is pretty outrageous. What sort of mushrooms are your people smoking in order to get revelations of the needed geometry?
Once you get past that, I suspect sufficiently thin mica would actually work, since animal glue ought to adhere satisfactorily, and very thin sheets ought to bend well.
So, if you want to stretch credulity to the breaking point, you might, maybe, if the reader has been doing 'ludes or maybe X, and is feeling very mellow, get away with it.
No, the problem is that of first flight. The tribe lives on top of a small plateau. The only way to learn how to control a glider is to practice, and this is usually done on low slopes with just enough slope that the novice doesn't get too high and get badly injured in the inevitable crash. In your case, the only way to learn is to strap a glider on and run over the edge. Y'know, earn while you learn.
And this is not going to end well unless you invoke authorial privilege in ways which will cause most readers to throw the book across the room.
answered 5 mins ago
WhatRoughBeastWhatRoughBeast
22.9k23280
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
"this is not going to end well unless you invoke authorial privilege in ways which will cause most readers to throw the book across the room" a [+] just for that line alone.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
1 min ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In theory, could a stone age tribe make an air-force of fixed wing
hang-gliders and safely glide from top to bottom of a cliff if the air
currents were favourable?
Well, maybe, but not your stone-age tribe.
The problem is, not neccessarily using mica. If you like, you can wave your hands a lot and postulate that the mica available is found in improbably large perfect sheets. There have been very large mica crystals found in places like Canada and Russia with the desired size, but they are riddled with imperfections, and this will make any large-scale construction extremely difficult. With some practice, the natives might learn to peel off very large, thin perfect sheets and use them for skins. This has problems, since sheets thick enough to be self-supporting will be waaaay too heavy to use, and wrapping thin skins around a wooden wing framework which just happens to have a useful airfoil shape is pretty outrageous. What sort of mushrooms are your people smoking in order to get revelations of the needed geometry?
Once you get past that, I suspect sufficiently thin mica would actually work, since animal glue ought to adhere satisfactorily, and very thin sheets ought to bend well.
So, if you want to stretch credulity to the breaking point, you might, maybe, if the reader has been doing 'ludes or maybe X, and is feeling very mellow, get away with it.
No, the problem is that of first flight. The tribe lives on top of a small plateau. The only way to learn how to control a glider is to practice, and this is usually done on low slopes with just enough slope that the novice doesn't get too high and get badly injured in the inevitable crash. In your case, the only way to learn is to strap a glider on and run over the edge. Y'know, earn while you learn.
And this is not going to end well unless you invoke authorial privilege in ways which will cause most readers to throw the book across the room.
answered 5 mins ago
WhatRoughBeastWhatRoughBeast
22.9k23280
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
"this is not going to end well unless you invoke authorial privilege in ways which will cause most readers to throw the book across the room" a [+] just for that line alone.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
1 min ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In theory, could a stone age tribe make an air-force of fixed wing
hang-gliders and safely glide from top to bottom of a cliff if the air
currents were favourable?
Well, maybe, but not your stone-age tribe.
The problem is, not neccessarily using mica. If you like, you can wave your hands a lot and postulate that the mica available is found in improbably large perfect sheets. There have been very large mica crystals found in places like Canada and Russia with the desired size, but they are riddled with imperfections, and this will make any large-scale construction extremely difficult. With some practice, the natives might learn to peel off very large, thin perfect sheets and use them for skins. This has problems, since sheets thick enough to be self-supporting will be waaaay too heavy to use, and wrapping thin skins around a wooden wing framework which just happens to have a useful airfoil shape is pretty outrageous. What sort of mushrooms are your people smoking in order to get revelations of the needed geometry?
Once you get past that, I suspect sufficiently thin mica would actually work, since animal glue ought to adhere satisfactorily, and very thin sheets ought to bend well.
So, if you want to stretch credulity to the breaking point, you might, maybe, if the reader has been doing 'ludes or maybe X, and is feeling very mellow, get away with it.
No, the problem is that of first flight. The tribe lives on top of a small plateau. The only way to learn how to control a glider is to practice, and this is usually done on low slopes with just enough slope that the novice doesn't get too high and get badly injured in the inevitable crash. In your case, the only way to learn is to strap a glider on and run over the edge. Y'know, earn while you learn.
And this is not going to end well unless you invoke authorial privilege in ways which will cause most readers to throw the book across the room.
answered 5 mins ago
WhatRoughBeastWhatRoughBeast
22.9k23280
$endgroup$
In theory, could a stone age tribe make an air-force of fixed wing
hang-gliders and safely glide from top to bottom of a cliff if the air
currents were favourable?
Well, maybe, but not your stone-age tribe.
The problem is, not neccessarily using mica. If you like, you can wave your hands a lot and postulate that the mica available is found in improbably large perfect sheets. There have been very large mica crystals found in places like Canada and Russia with the desired size, but they are riddled with imperfections, and this will make any large-scale construction extremely difficult. With some practice, the natives might learn to peel off very large, thin perfect sheets and use them for skins. This has problems, since sheets thick enough to be self-supporting will be waaaay too heavy to use, and wrapping thin skins around a wooden wing framework which just happens to have a useful airfoil shape is pretty outrageous. What sort of mushrooms are your people smoking in order to get revelations of the needed geometry?
Once you get past that, I suspect sufficiently thin mica would actually work, since animal glue ought to adhere satisfactorily, and very thin sheets ought to bend well.
So, if you want to stretch credulity to the breaking point, you might, maybe, if the reader has been doing 'ludes or maybe X, and is feeling very mellow, get away with it.
No, the problem is that of first flight. The tribe lives on top of a small plateau. The only way to learn how to control a glider is to practice, and this is usually done on low slopes with just enough slope that the novice doesn't get too high and get badly injured in the inevitable crash. In your case, the only way to learn is to strap a glider on and run over the edge. Y'know, earn while you learn.
And this is not going to end well unless you invoke authorial privilege in ways which will cause most readers to throw the book across the room.
answered 5 mins ago
WhatRoughBeastWhatRoughBeast
22.9k23280
answered 5 mins ago
WhatRoughBeastWhatRoughBeast
22.9k23280
answered 5 mins ago
WhatRoughBeastWhatRoughBeast
22.9k23280
answered 5 mins ago
WhatRoughBeastWhatRoughBeast
22.9k23280
22.9k23280
$begingroup$
"this is not going to end well unless you invoke authorial privilege in ways which will cause most readers to throw the book across the room" a [+] just for that line alone.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
1 min ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
"this is not going to end well unless you invoke authorial privilege in ways which will cause most readers to throw the book across the room" a [+] just for that line alone.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
1 min ago
$begingroup$
"this is not going to end well unless you invoke authorial privilege in ways which will cause most readers to throw the book across the room" a [+] just for that line alone.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
1 min ago
$begingroup$
"this is not going to end well unless you invoke authorial privilege in ways which will cause most readers to throw the book across the room" a [+] just for that line alone.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
1 min ago
add a comment |
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6
$begingroup$
Mica's Specific strength would be terrible for flying. They would have the best luck with leather wings (which still going to be terrible). In this particular case, Helawi should just rope down from their cliffs in a location where Fikawi don't expect them.
$endgroup$
– Alexander
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Why not just throw rocks off the top? Build a trebuchet or catapult that can send rocks far enough to hit just past whatever resource their people need down there.
$endgroup$
– ShadoCat
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@ShadoCat - In terms of the story, the local topography doesn't allow throwing rocks. In terms of the question I particularly want to find out about gliders.
$endgroup$
– chasly from UK
1 hour ago
1
$begingroup$
"I particularly want to find out about gliders" Sure, but you're asking how to make usable man-carrying gliders out of stone, mica is both far too brittle & far too heavy for what you want to use it for, you might as well ask for suggestions on how to build a hang-glider with wings made from slate or glass.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
How big is this tribe? If it's only a few family units, the deaths of several able-bodied young men during the development of such a glider could be devastating. They aren't going to get this right on the first try.
$endgroup$
– Nuclear Wang
1 hour ago