How to pronounce 'que' and 'angeli'?
I came along these in a Latin song our choir is singing.
How to pronounce them?
I guess I can absorb an international phonetic alphabet transcription.
Update after reading some answers: I should have stated that I know that there are different traditions in pronouncing Latin. I am interested in all possible pronunciations. Could e.g.'que' be pronounced as "ke" or "kɛ"?
pronunciation
New contributor
add a comment |
I came along these in a Latin song our choir is singing.
How to pronounce them?
I guess I can absorb an international phonetic alphabet transcription.
Update after reading some answers: I should have stated that I know that there are different traditions in pronouncing Latin. I am interested in all possible pronunciations. Could e.g.'que' be pronounced as "ke" or "kɛ"?
pronunciation
New contributor
Related: latin.stackexchange.com/questions/1000/…
– luchonacho
13 hours ago
add a comment |
I came along these in a Latin song our choir is singing.
How to pronounce them?
I guess I can absorb an international phonetic alphabet transcription.
Update after reading some answers: I should have stated that I know that there are different traditions in pronouncing Latin. I am interested in all possible pronunciations. Could e.g.'que' be pronounced as "ke" or "kɛ"?
pronunciation
New contributor
I came along these in a Latin song our choir is singing.
How to pronounce them?
I guess I can absorb an international phonetic alphabet transcription.
Update after reading some answers: I should have stated that I know that there are different traditions in pronouncing Latin. I am interested in all possible pronunciations. Could e.g.'que' be pronounced as "ke" or "kɛ"?
pronunciation
pronunciation
New contributor
New contributor
edited 6 hours ago
wondering
New contributor
asked 14 hours ago
wonderingwondering
1214
1214
New contributor
New contributor
Related: latin.stackexchange.com/questions/1000/…
– luchonacho
13 hours ago
add a comment |
Related: latin.stackexchange.com/questions/1000/…
– luchonacho
13 hours ago
Related: latin.stackexchange.com/questions/1000/…
– luchonacho
13 hours ago
Related: latin.stackexchange.com/questions/1000/…
– luchonacho
13 hours ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
The first question is, what tradition are you following?
In the reconstructed Classical pronunciation, the way scholars think Romans spoke around the first century, they'd be pronounced [kʷɛ]
and [ˈɑŋ.gɛ.liː]
. In English, approximately "kweh" and "AHNG-geh-lee".
In the common Ecclesiastic pronunciation, the system the Vatican uses, they'd be pronounced [kʷe]
[ˈɑn.d͡ʒɛ.li]
. In English, approximately "kway" and "AHN-jeh-lee".
However, there have been a wide variety of Latin pronunciations used across the centuries. It's worth asking which your chorus is using: while most use Ecclesiastic pronunciation, for example, some choruses would use a German pronunciation for Bach, but an Italian pronunciation for Palestrina.
Some of these regional pronunciations used [k]
instead of [kʷ]
before [e]
, as you mention in the comments—based on how the Romance languages developed, I would expect this in France and Spain, but not in Portugal or Italy (or Germany or England for that matter). In Germany or Russia, on the other hand, you'd find something more like [kv]
.
However, these regional pronunciations aren't generally used nowadays, unless you're singing music by a specifically French or Spanish composer. You should talk to your director about that.
Thanks. I am interested in all possible pronunciations. Could 'que' be pronounced as "ke" or "kɛ"? (This is what I told my friends, but promised to check it:-)
– wondering
7 hours ago
@wondering Added a note about that.
– Draconis
6 hours ago
Why do you write the vowels of "que" and "angeli" differently in "Ecclesiastical" pronunciation? My understanding is that Ecclesiastical pronunciation has no standardized distinction between /e/ and /ɛ/, and both "-que" and "angeli" had short e in Latin anyway (except for when "-que" was positioned in the "arsis", apparently).
– sumelic
24 mins ago
add a comment |
It depends on the pronounciation you are using.
If you want classical reconstructed pronunciantion, the one Romans used, you say something like [kwe] and [ˈaŋ.ɡɛ.li]
If you want ecclesiastical proniunciation, which is used by the catholic church, you say some thing like [kwe] and [ˈan.d͡ʒe.li]
I hope it helped 😁
Thanks. I am interested in all possible pronunciations. Could 'que' be pronounced as "ke" or "kɛ"? (This is what I told my friends, but promised to check it:-)
– wondering
7 hours ago
add a comment |
Note: This answer should be regarded as an adjunct to the answers already given by user22198 and Draconis.
Both correctly mention that there are different traditions in pronouncing Latin, including a reconstructed Classical pronunciation, and an "Ecclesiastical" pronunciation. There also have existed various national pronunciations, as Draconis mentions.
Your question about que being possibly pronounced as [kɛ] is most likely true for certain "national" pronunciations in the past (I'd guess e.g. probably French and Spanish), but is not followed by the pronunciations in common use to-day. In fact, the de facto pronunciation for Latin used in singing is nowadays the "Ecclesiastical" pronunciation (and therefore quite likely by your choir). (Although I have heard some Mediaeval music pronounced with a German, or at least non-Italianate, mediaeval pronunciation, as Draconis alludes to.)
You might be interested in this related post.
add a comment |
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
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active
oldest
votes
The first question is, what tradition are you following?
In the reconstructed Classical pronunciation, the way scholars think Romans spoke around the first century, they'd be pronounced [kʷɛ]
and [ˈɑŋ.gɛ.liː]
. In English, approximately "kweh" and "AHNG-geh-lee".
In the common Ecclesiastic pronunciation, the system the Vatican uses, they'd be pronounced [kʷe]
[ˈɑn.d͡ʒɛ.li]
. In English, approximately "kway" and "AHN-jeh-lee".
However, there have been a wide variety of Latin pronunciations used across the centuries. It's worth asking which your chorus is using: while most use Ecclesiastic pronunciation, for example, some choruses would use a German pronunciation for Bach, but an Italian pronunciation for Palestrina.
Some of these regional pronunciations used [k]
instead of [kʷ]
before [e]
, as you mention in the comments—based on how the Romance languages developed, I would expect this in France and Spain, but not in Portugal or Italy (or Germany or England for that matter). In Germany or Russia, on the other hand, you'd find something more like [kv]
.
However, these regional pronunciations aren't generally used nowadays, unless you're singing music by a specifically French or Spanish composer. You should talk to your director about that.
Thanks. I am interested in all possible pronunciations. Could 'que' be pronounced as "ke" or "kɛ"? (This is what I told my friends, but promised to check it:-)
– wondering
7 hours ago
@wondering Added a note about that.
– Draconis
6 hours ago
Why do you write the vowels of "que" and "angeli" differently in "Ecclesiastical" pronunciation? My understanding is that Ecclesiastical pronunciation has no standardized distinction between /e/ and /ɛ/, and both "-que" and "angeli" had short e in Latin anyway (except for when "-que" was positioned in the "arsis", apparently).
– sumelic
24 mins ago
add a comment |
The first question is, what tradition are you following?
In the reconstructed Classical pronunciation, the way scholars think Romans spoke around the first century, they'd be pronounced [kʷɛ]
and [ˈɑŋ.gɛ.liː]
. In English, approximately "kweh" and "AHNG-geh-lee".
In the common Ecclesiastic pronunciation, the system the Vatican uses, they'd be pronounced [kʷe]
[ˈɑn.d͡ʒɛ.li]
. In English, approximately "kway" and "AHN-jeh-lee".
However, there have been a wide variety of Latin pronunciations used across the centuries. It's worth asking which your chorus is using: while most use Ecclesiastic pronunciation, for example, some choruses would use a German pronunciation for Bach, but an Italian pronunciation for Palestrina.
Some of these regional pronunciations used [k]
instead of [kʷ]
before [e]
, as you mention in the comments—based on how the Romance languages developed, I would expect this in France and Spain, but not in Portugal or Italy (or Germany or England for that matter). In Germany or Russia, on the other hand, you'd find something more like [kv]
.
However, these regional pronunciations aren't generally used nowadays, unless you're singing music by a specifically French or Spanish composer. You should talk to your director about that.
Thanks. I am interested in all possible pronunciations. Could 'que' be pronounced as "ke" or "kɛ"? (This is what I told my friends, but promised to check it:-)
– wondering
7 hours ago
@wondering Added a note about that.
– Draconis
6 hours ago
Why do you write the vowels of "que" and "angeli" differently in "Ecclesiastical" pronunciation? My understanding is that Ecclesiastical pronunciation has no standardized distinction between /e/ and /ɛ/, and both "-que" and "angeli" had short e in Latin anyway (except for when "-que" was positioned in the "arsis", apparently).
– sumelic
24 mins ago
add a comment |
The first question is, what tradition are you following?
In the reconstructed Classical pronunciation, the way scholars think Romans spoke around the first century, they'd be pronounced [kʷɛ]
and [ˈɑŋ.gɛ.liː]
. In English, approximately "kweh" and "AHNG-geh-lee".
In the common Ecclesiastic pronunciation, the system the Vatican uses, they'd be pronounced [kʷe]
[ˈɑn.d͡ʒɛ.li]
. In English, approximately "kway" and "AHN-jeh-lee".
However, there have been a wide variety of Latin pronunciations used across the centuries. It's worth asking which your chorus is using: while most use Ecclesiastic pronunciation, for example, some choruses would use a German pronunciation for Bach, but an Italian pronunciation for Palestrina.
Some of these regional pronunciations used [k]
instead of [kʷ]
before [e]
, as you mention in the comments—based on how the Romance languages developed, I would expect this in France and Spain, but not in Portugal or Italy (or Germany or England for that matter). In Germany or Russia, on the other hand, you'd find something more like [kv]
.
However, these regional pronunciations aren't generally used nowadays, unless you're singing music by a specifically French or Spanish composer. You should talk to your director about that.
The first question is, what tradition are you following?
In the reconstructed Classical pronunciation, the way scholars think Romans spoke around the first century, they'd be pronounced [kʷɛ]
and [ˈɑŋ.gɛ.liː]
. In English, approximately "kweh" and "AHNG-geh-lee".
In the common Ecclesiastic pronunciation, the system the Vatican uses, they'd be pronounced [kʷe]
[ˈɑn.d͡ʒɛ.li]
. In English, approximately "kway" and "AHN-jeh-lee".
However, there have been a wide variety of Latin pronunciations used across the centuries. It's worth asking which your chorus is using: while most use Ecclesiastic pronunciation, for example, some choruses would use a German pronunciation for Bach, but an Italian pronunciation for Palestrina.
Some of these regional pronunciations used [k]
instead of [kʷ]
before [e]
, as you mention in the comments—based on how the Romance languages developed, I would expect this in France and Spain, but not in Portugal or Italy (or Germany or England for that matter). In Germany or Russia, on the other hand, you'd find something more like [kv]
.
However, these regional pronunciations aren't generally used nowadays, unless you're singing music by a specifically French or Spanish composer. You should talk to your director about that.
edited 6 hours ago
answered 9 hours ago
DraconisDraconis
16k22068
16k22068
Thanks. I am interested in all possible pronunciations. Could 'que' be pronounced as "ke" or "kɛ"? (This is what I told my friends, but promised to check it:-)
– wondering
7 hours ago
@wondering Added a note about that.
– Draconis
6 hours ago
Why do you write the vowels of "que" and "angeli" differently in "Ecclesiastical" pronunciation? My understanding is that Ecclesiastical pronunciation has no standardized distinction between /e/ and /ɛ/, and both "-que" and "angeli" had short e in Latin anyway (except for when "-que" was positioned in the "arsis", apparently).
– sumelic
24 mins ago
add a comment |
Thanks. I am interested in all possible pronunciations. Could 'que' be pronounced as "ke" or "kɛ"? (This is what I told my friends, but promised to check it:-)
– wondering
7 hours ago
@wondering Added a note about that.
– Draconis
6 hours ago
Why do you write the vowels of "que" and "angeli" differently in "Ecclesiastical" pronunciation? My understanding is that Ecclesiastical pronunciation has no standardized distinction between /e/ and /ɛ/, and both "-que" and "angeli" had short e in Latin anyway (except for when "-que" was positioned in the "arsis", apparently).
– sumelic
24 mins ago
Thanks. I am interested in all possible pronunciations. Could 'que' be pronounced as "ke" or "kɛ"? (This is what I told my friends, but promised to check it:-)
– wondering
7 hours ago
Thanks. I am interested in all possible pronunciations. Could 'que' be pronounced as "ke" or "kɛ"? (This is what I told my friends, but promised to check it:-)
– wondering
7 hours ago
@wondering Added a note about that.
– Draconis
6 hours ago
@wondering Added a note about that.
– Draconis
6 hours ago
Why do you write the vowels of "que" and "angeli" differently in "Ecclesiastical" pronunciation? My understanding is that Ecclesiastical pronunciation has no standardized distinction between /e/ and /ɛ/, and both "-que" and "angeli" had short e in Latin anyway (except for when "-que" was positioned in the "arsis", apparently).
– sumelic
24 mins ago
Why do you write the vowels of "que" and "angeli" differently in "Ecclesiastical" pronunciation? My understanding is that Ecclesiastical pronunciation has no standardized distinction between /e/ and /ɛ/, and both "-que" and "angeli" had short e in Latin anyway (except for when "-que" was positioned in the "arsis", apparently).
– sumelic
24 mins ago
add a comment |
It depends on the pronounciation you are using.
If you want classical reconstructed pronunciantion, the one Romans used, you say something like [kwe] and [ˈaŋ.ɡɛ.li]
If you want ecclesiastical proniunciation, which is used by the catholic church, you say some thing like [kwe] and [ˈan.d͡ʒe.li]
I hope it helped 😁
Thanks. I am interested in all possible pronunciations. Could 'que' be pronounced as "ke" or "kɛ"? (This is what I told my friends, but promised to check it:-)
– wondering
7 hours ago
add a comment |
It depends on the pronounciation you are using.
If you want classical reconstructed pronunciantion, the one Romans used, you say something like [kwe] and [ˈaŋ.ɡɛ.li]
If you want ecclesiastical proniunciation, which is used by the catholic church, you say some thing like [kwe] and [ˈan.d͡ʒe.li]
I hope it helped 😁
Thanks. I am interested in all possible pronunciations. Could 'que' be pronounced as "ke" or "kɛ"? (This is what I told my friends, but promised to check it:-)
– wondering
7 hours ago
add a comment |
It depends on the pronounciation you are using.
If you want classical reconstructed pronunciantion, the one Romans used, you say something like [kwe] and [ˈaŋ.ɡɛ.li]
If you want ecclesiastical proniunciation, which is used by the catholic church, you say some thing like [kwe] and [ˈan.d͡ʒe.li]
I hope it helped 😁
It depends on the pronounciation you are using.
If you want classical reconstructed pronunciantion, the one Romans used, you say something like [kwe] and [ˈaŋ.ɡɛ.li]
If you want ecclesiastical proniunciation, which is used by the catholic church, you say some thing like [kwe] and [ˈan.d͡ʒe.li]
I hope it helped 😁
answered 9 hours ago
user22198user22198
563
563
Thanks. I am interested in all possible pronunciations. Could 'que' be pronounced as "ke" or "kɛ"? (This is what I told my friends, but promised to check it:-)
– wondering
7 hours ago
add a comment |
Thanks. I am interested in all possible pronunciations. Could 'que' be pronounced as "ke" or "kɛ"? (This is what I told my friends, but promised to check it:-)
– wondering
7 hours ago
Thanks. I am interested in all possible pronunciations. Could 'que' be pronounced as "ke" or "kɛ"? (This is what I told my friends, but promised to check it:-)
– wondering
7 hours ago
Thanks. I am interested in all possible pronunciations. Could 'que' be pronounced as "ke" or "kɛ"? (This is what I told my friends, but promised to check it:-)
– wondering
7 hours ago
add a comment |
Note: This answer should be regarded as an adjunct to the answers already given by user22198 and Draconis.
Both correctly mention that there are different traditions in pronouncing Latin, including a reconstructed Classical pronunciation, and an "Ecclesiastical" pronunciation. There also have existed various national pronunciations, as Draconis mentions.
Your question about que being possibly pronounced as [kɛ] is most likely true for certain "national" pronunciations in the past (I'd guess e.g. probably French and Spanish), but is not followed by the pronunciations in common use to-day. In fact, the de facto pronunciation for Latin used in singing is nowadays the "Ecclesiastical" pronunciation (and therefore quite likely by your choir). (Although I have heard some Mediaeval music pronounced with a German, or at least non-Italianate, mediaeval pronunciation, as Draconis alludes to.)
You might be interested in this related post.
add a comment |
Note: This answer should be regarded as an adjunct to the answers already given by user22198 and Draconis.
Both correctly mention that there are different traditions in pronouncing Latin, including a reconstructed Classical pronunciation, and an "Ecclesiastical" pronunciation. There also have existed various national pronunciations, as Draconis mentions.
Your question about que being possibly pronounced as [kɛ] is most likely true for certain "national" pronunciations in the past (I'd guess e.g. probably French and Spanish), but is not followed by the pronunciations in common use to-day. In fact, the de facto pronunciation for Latin used in singing is nowadays the "Ecclesiastical" pronunciation (and therefore quite likely by your choir). (Although I have heard some Mediaeval music pronounced with a German, or at least non-Italianate, mediaeval pronunciation, as Draconis alludes to.)
You might be interested in this related post.
add a comment |
Note: This answer should be regarded as an adjunct to the answers already given by user22198 and Draconis.
Both correctly mention that there are different traditions in pronouncing Latin, including a reconstructed Classical pronunciation, and an "Ecclesiastical" pronunciation. There also have existed various national pronunciations, as Draconis mentions.
Your question about que being possibly pronounced as [kɛ] is most likely true for certain "national" pronunciations in the past (I'd guess e.g. probably French and Spanish), but is not followed by the pronunciations in common use to-day. In fact, the de facto pronunciation for Latin used in singing is nowadays the "Ecclesiastical" pronunciation (and therefore quite likely by your choir). (Although I have heard some Mediaeval music pronounced with a German, or at least non-Italianate, mediaeval pronunciation, as Draconis alludes to.)
You might be interested in this related post.
Note: This answer should be regarded as an adjunct to the answers already given by user22198 and Draconis.
Both correctly mention that there are different traditions in pronouncing Latin, including a reconstructed Classical pronunciation, and an "Ecclesiastical" pronunciation. There also have existed various national pronunciations, as Draconis mentions.
Your question about que being possibly pronounced as [kɛ] is most likely true for certain "national" pronunciations in the past (I'd guess e.g. probably French and Spanish), but is not followed by the pronunciations in common use to-day. In fact, the de facto pronunciation for Latin used in singing is nowadays the "Ecclesiastical" pronunciation (and therefore quite likely by your choir). (Although I have heard some Mediaeval music pronounced with a German, or at least non-Italianate, mediaeval pronunciation, as Draconis alludes to.)
You might be interested in this related post.
answered 6 hours ago
varrovarro
3,6851315
3,6851315
add a comment |
add a comment |
wondering is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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wondering is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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Related: latin.stackexchange.com/questions/1000/…
– luchonacho
13 hours ago