How to make sure I'm assertive enough in contact with subordinates?












43















I'm a first-time manager and sometimes have difficulties judging whether my expectations towards my subordinates are realistic or not.



How assertive/ cooperative should I be in the following situation:



You work on a project with your subordinate, discuss it thoroughly. Then you meet a client (one you know very well but still, it's a client) and present the results together. After you presented a proposal, your colleague tells the client he doesn't agree that the proposal you just presented is the best one and goes on to discuss a different one.



Now, my first reaction is to have a quite serious conversation with the colleague asserting that this behavior is unacceptable. Are there any better options? If the best solution is to discuss it, how should I frame it?



Btw, it's not the first time this happened.










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  • 13





    Before meeting with the client, did you discuss multiple proposals or just one? If multiple did you both agree to only present one to the client?

    – sf02
    yesterday






  • 48





    Perhaps the next time you need to make it clear to your subordinate that you are recommending proposal X and only X, but regardless let your subordinate know that the time for discussions is not when the client is present

    – sf02
    yesterday






  • 4





    The proposal should have been decided on prior to the meeting with the client. Discussions for or against a particular proposal need to be hashed out and decided beforehand and then presented to the client as a unified message.

    – joeqwerty
    yesterday








  • 4





    It's all about expectations. Make sure you communicate your expectations to your subordinate or it will be everybody's and nobody's fault when things go south.

    – Mast
    16 hours ago






  • 8





    Could the subordinate's alternative proposal have been motivated by anything that happened during the meeting (e.g. a client's expressed concerns)? Or was it clearly something they had always planned to present?

    – gidds
    13 hours ago
















43















I'm a first-time manager and sometimes have difficulties judging whether my expectations towards my subordinates are realistic or not.



How assertive/ cooperative should I be in the following situation:



You work on a project with your subordinate, discuss it thoroughly. Then you meet a client (one you know very well but still, it's a client) and present the results together. After you presented a proposal, your colleague tells the client he doesn't agree that the proposal you just presented is the best one and goes on to discuss a different one.



Now, my first reaction is to have a quite serious conversation with the colleague asserting that this behavior is unacceptable. Are there any better options? If the best solution is to discuss it, how should I frame it?



Btw, it's not the first time this happened.










share|improve this question









New contributor




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  • 13





    Before meeting with the client, did you discuss multiple proposals or just one? If multiple did you both agree to only present one to the client?

    – sf02
    yesterday






  • 48





    Perhaps the next time you need to make it clear to your subordinate that you are recommending proposal X and only X, but regardless let your subordinate know that the time for discussions is not when the client is present

    – sf02
    yesterday






  • 4





    The proposal should have been decided on prior to the meeting with the client. Discussions for or against a particular proposal need to be hashed out and decided beforehand and then presented to the client as a unified message.

    – joeqwerty
    yesterday








  • 4





    It's all about expectations. Make sure you communicate your expectations to your subordinate or it will be everybody's and nobody's fault when things go south.

    – Mast
    16 hours ago






  • 8





    Could the subordinate's alternative proposal have been motivated by anything that happened during the meeting (e.g. a client's expressed concerns)? Or was it clearly something they had always planned to present?

    – gidds
    13 hours ago














43












43








43


1






I'm a first-time manager and sometimes have difficulties judging whether my expectations towards my subordinates are realistic or not.



How assertive/ cooperative should I be in the following situation:



You work on a project with your subordinate, discuss it thoroughly. Then you meet a client (one you know very well but still, it's a client) and present the results together. After you presented a proposal, your colleague tells the client he doesn't agree that the proposal you just presented is the best one and goes on to discuss a different one.



Now, my first reaction is to have a quite serious conversation with the colleague asserting that this behavior is unacceptable. Are there any better options? If the best solution is to discuss it, how should I frame it?



Btw, it's not the first time this happened.










share|improve this question









New contributor




user4214 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












I'm a first-time manager and sometimes have difficulties judging whether my expectations towards my subordinates are realistic or not.



How assertive/ cooperative should I be in the following situation:



You work on a project with your subordinate, discuss it thoroughly. Then you meet a client (one you know very well but still, it's a client) and present the results together. After you presented a proposal, your colleague tells the client he doesn't agree that the proposal you just presented is the best one and goes on to discuss a different one.



Now, my first reaction is to have a quite serious conversation with the colleague asserting that this behavior is unacceptable. Are there any better options? If the best solution is to discuss it, how should I frame it?



Btw, it's not the first time this happened.







communication management meetings






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edited yesterday









DarkCygnus

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asked yesterday









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  • 13





    Before meeting with the client, did you discuss multiple proposals or just one? If multiple did you both agree to only present one to the client?

    – sf02
    yesterday






  • 48





    Perhaps the next time you need to make it clear to your subordinate that you are recommending proposal X and only X, but regardless let your subordinate know that the time for discussions is not when the client is present

    – sf02
    yesterday






  • 4





    The proposal should have been decided on prior to the meeting with the client. Discussions for or against a particular proposal need to be hashed out and decided beforehand and then presented to the client as a unified message.

    – joeqwerty
    yesterday








  • 4





    It's all about expectations. Make sure you communicate your expectations to your subordinate or it will be everybody's and nobody's fault when things go south.

    – Mast
    16 hours ago






  • 8





    Could the subordinate's alternative proposal have been motivated by anything that happened during the meeting (e.g. a client's expressed concerns)? Or was it clearly something they had always planned to present?

    – gidds
    13 hours ago














  • 13





    Before meeting with the client, did you discuss multiple proposals or just one? If multiple did you both agree to only present one to the client?

    – sf02
    yesterday






  • 48





    Perhaps the next time you need to make it clear to your subordinate that you are recommending proposal X and only X, but regardless let your subordinate know that the time for discussions is not when the client is present

    – sf02
    yesterday






  • 4





    The proposal should have been decided on prior to the meeting with the client. Discussions for or against a particular proposal need to be hashed out and decided beforehand and then presented to the client as a unified message.

    – joeqwerty
    yesterday








  • 4





    It's all about expectations. Make sure you communicate your expectations to your subordinate or it will be everybody's and nobody's fault when things go south.

    – Mast
    16 hours ago






  • 8





    Could the subordinate's alternative proposal have been motivated by anything that happened during the meeting (e.g. a client's expressed concerns)? Or was it clearly something they had always planned to present?

    – gidds
    13 hours ago








13




13





Before meeting with the client, did you discuss multiple proposals or just one? If multiple did you both agree to only present one to the client?

– sf02
yesterday





Before meeting with the client, did you discuss multiple proposals or just one? If multiple did you both agree to only present one to the client?

– sf02
yesterday




48




48





Perhaps the next time you need to make it clear to your subordinate that you are recommending proposal X and only X, but regardless let your subordinate know that the time for discussions is not when the client is present

– sf02
yesterday





Perhaps the next time you need to make it clear to your subordinate that you are recommending proposal X and only X, but regardless let your subordinate know that the time for discussions is not when the client is present

– sf02
yesterday




4




4





The proposal should have been decided on prior to the meeting with the client. Discussions for or against a particular proposal need to be hashed out and decided beforehand and then presented to the client as a unified message.

– joeqwerty
yesterday







The proposal should have been decided on prior to the meeting with the client. Discussions for or against a particular proposal need to be hashed out and decided beforehand and then presented to the client as a unified message.

– joeqwerty
yesterday






4




4





It's all about expectations. Make sure you communicate your expectations to your subordinate or it will be everybody's and nobody's fault when things go south.

– Mast
16 hours ago





It's all about expectations. Make sure you communicate your expectations to your subordinate or it will be everybody's and nobody's fault when things go south.

– Mast
16 hours ago




8




8





Could the subordinate's alternative proposal have been motivated by anything that happened during the meeting (e.g. a client's expressed concerns)? Or was it clearly something they had always planned to present?

– gidds
13 hours ago





Could the subordinate's alternative proposal have been motivated by anything that happened during the meeting (e.g. a client's expressed concerns)? Or was it clearly something they had always planned to present?

– gidds
13 hours ago










8 Answers
8






active

oldest

votes


















75















Now, my first reaction is to have a quite serious conversation with the colleague asserting that this behavior is unacceptable. Are there any better options? If the best solution is to discuss it, how should I frame it?




Yes, I would say that a one-on-one conversation is in place here, where you explain to your subordinate that improvising or deviating from the plan during meetings is not acceptable.



You say this is not the first time this happens, but perhaps it's the first time it happens to you as a manager, and it is important to set things straight now to avoid this from happening again.



Be firm, yet respectful, and make sure to stress that this is not acceptable behavior and that they should stick to what planned for meetings, and that they should pitch with you any ideas or suggestions for meetings before actually doing them.






share|improve this answer



















  • 49





    Also worth mentioning that it cuts both ways. You as a manager won't deviate from the plan the team agrees on. That way it's clear it's not about ego, it about making sure that your company looks cohesive.

    – Gregroy Currie
    19 hours ago






  • 9





    +1. One thing OP must point is: That kind of behavior don't make his colleague looks smarter, just makes the team looks unprofessional

    – jean
    11 hours ago











  • @Gregroy Currie I don't agree, it does not cut both ways. As the manager you have to make the decision in the best case for the company and the client. Your team could be wrong and if you can't get them to by in to the change sometimes you have to force it. Experience will be a guide for when you have to go against the grain.

    – NDEthos
    5 hours ago



















21














First of all, this is worth establishing:




  • We're all in this boat together.


This statement requires both of you to operate as a team. Free discussion is something that is quite desirable when the team is together and deciding execution options, but the Client should only see the final result of this discussion - an united front. Which takes us to the second statement:




  • It's way better if the boat gets to the destination.


The Client may perceive this lack of well-defined roles as disorganization. This is dangerous - this affects their perception on how successful this project can be.



So we need clear roles:




  • As Project Manager, you're the Mediator.


You're the one in direct contact with the client. You listen to the Client's woes, discuss with your team, and offer the Client the proposed Solution.




  • Your colleague is the Specialist.


They're qualified to evaluate the scenario and offer possible outcomes.



So discuss all you want before the meeting. Raise possible scenarios and implementation options. If called upon at the Mediator's discretion the Specialist may chime in and freely discuss during a live meeting.



But no conflict of roles should transpire at a meeting with the client, at the risk of weakening the Client's reliance on the capability of your team to deliver.



Finally, answering your question:




If the best solution is to discuss it, how should I frame it?




I agree that this needs to be addressed. Show your colleague the importance of projecting an image of functional, coherent team to a client.






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  • 4





    +1 for We're all in this boat together. That cannot be enough stressed. Unfortunately, some guys just don't get it (never)

    – jean
    11 hours ago





















8














You don't need to be "bossy", but you certainly need to inform that employee of a few things:




  • Such behavior is a major signal to the client that your business doesn't know what it's doing. You will either not win bids, or will get fired by the client. You will have a bad reputation with that client, which will spread to any other potential clients that they talk to. This has the potential of doing major financial damage to your company and risking the livelihoods of all of you. This behavior is not acceptable and the employee must find a different way to handle the situation.


  • Reservations about the solution must be brought up and addressed before presentation day. At the presentation, your company must show a united front, even if there are reservations or disagreements internally.



What can you learn on your end?




  • Are the alternative solutions actually better, even in part?


  • Which solutions do the clients prefer?


  • Make sure everyone involved (especially everyone presenting to the client) has plenty of time to give input on the project and the presentation before final decisions are made.


  • Could you officially present multiple proposals with compare/contrast and cost/benefit analysis, and let the client choose which to implement?


  • Don't involve unnecessary personnel in presentations to clients.







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  • 4





    With regard to "don't involve unnecessary personnel" one could also stress "don't have managers relaying messages between technical teams" as this easily degrades into the party game called "telephone"

    – Chris Stratton
    yesterday






  • 2





    There is a definite difference between being bossy, and being the boss. And in this case the OP was not the boss, a bit of compensating bossiness would probably be useful in preventing a recurrence of such an embarrassment.

    – George M
    yesterday











  • I totally agree with your beginning points. Such dissent in front of a client is absolutely unprofessional makes the whole company look foolish. If the client is to be presented alternatives then that strategy should be agreed upon before the client meeting.

    – MaxW
    18 hours ago



















3














You can take a cue from Netflix's famous culture deck:




The best managers figure out how to get great outcomes by setting the appropriate context, rather than by trying to control their people




If you operate under the assumption that your reports would like to do the very best thing for the company, then it's clear that their behavior in these meetings is because they are doing what they think is the very best thing for the company.



If you have other information to help them make better decisions, as a manager it's your job to provide that context. If you're not having regular 1-on-1's, you should, and it would be a reasonable time to discuss this kind of thing. However, if not you should still invite them to your office for a discussion.



You: Hey Pat, I'd like to discuss some things that have gone on in some client meetings. I'm operating under the assumption that we both are interested in what's best for the company, would you agree?



Pat: Sure, boss.



You: Great! So, in our last client pitch, and in at least two other ones, when we finished our pitch, you started providing other options that we hadn't discussed before hand. From a sales point of view, that leaves us looking kind of weak and disorganized. We really want to provide a united front to the client. Does this make sense, or do you have some information that I'm not aware of?



At this point either Pat will agree with you - either out of fear or whatever - or they will disagree with you and/or provide you more context.



It's also possible that they disagree and are wrong.



If they do agree and carry on the way you'd like, great! Problem solved.



If they disagree - or they agree, but then do the wrong thing, then you'll have to approach those hurdles.



One thing that I would also recommend is that before your next meeting you remind them - "Hey, just wanted to double check - we discussed presenting a united front for the customer, so if they ask for alternate solutions, we'll just say, 'We do have some other avenues that we can explore, but right now we believe that this really is the best approach for you. If you'd like, we can provide you some comparisons later.', Okay?"



With the reminder, and a pre-canned script for those occasions, it will be easier for them not to get off into the weeds.



The basics here though are:




  • Provide context (ahead of time)

  • Discuss options

  • Provide frameworks and tools to keep things in check






share|improve this answer



















  • 2





    Continuing on your discussion. Pat: "From my perspective boss, the best way for our company to succeed is to make sure we give our clients the best possible solutions. That is what I was doing in the meeting. Don't you think the client should be aware of the best possible solution?"

    – Gregroy Currie
    16 hours ago






  • 1





    @GregroyCurrie yeah, exactly. It's possible that the employee has more context, but without the discussion, nobody knows

    – Wayne Werner
    12 hours ago



















-1














If this the first time that You will mention this to this person, then it might not need to be serious.



You could turn it into a review of that meeting. What went wrong, what went right, what You expected, what actually happened, how You want the Client to view You, your Colleague, your Company....



Make this a case for how to improve "meetings" with the client.



If this is an engineer, then they could solve this problem for You.



But You say, that this has happened repeatedly. That looks to me as if both of you hadn't agreed beforehand on the accepted proposal. Which even more suggests to me You need to work on the pre client meeting.



Remember, as a manager You are not only charged with getting the job done, but also with understanding and managing the team.






share|improve this answer
























  • You have a very strange understanding of management. I share with my boss my opinion about things and we discuss possible options. But if he then decides, against my opinion, that we should go direction A because <whatever>, I need to accept it. And I would always present this solution to the client, even if I was against it during the discussion with my boss. Other behavior would be totally unprofessional.

    – BigMadAndy
    2 hours ago











  • @BigMadAndy Everybody has there own style of leading. wisetoast.com/12-different-types-of-leadership-styles

    – Robert Andrzejuk
    1 hour ago













  • @BigMadAndy I prefer more of a "coaching" style. The one You descibe I believe is "autocratic".

    – Robert Andrzejuk
    1 hour ago





















-1















"You work on a project with your subordinate, discuss it thoroughly"




The last bit of this is contradicted by the rest of the question. You clearly didn't discuss your proposal thoroughly because otherwise they'd have raised that it wasn't the best at the time with you.



As manager, it is your role to ensure that communication doesn't break down within the team; so you must establish if this person isn't getting a chance to state their opinions; or if their opinions are getting rejected without sufficient justification etc.



If this person keeps embarrassing you in front of the client however, then I would just stop inviting them to the meetings.



Alternatively, something came up in the meeting that meant that an assertion made about why proposal A was better than B was broken, and that is exactly WHY you have these meetings; to ensure that everyone is on the same page.






share|improve this answer
























  • Wow, you make some very strange assertions. I know plenty of people who won't tell you they think your proposal is bad during a 1:1 but they will when discussing the proposal with your boss present. Not to mention there are plenty of fools out there too. They need an audience to feel important. And: good bosses give some justifications and try to build consensus. But it's not bosses' role to spend whole days explaining their decisions to their subordinates unless under very special circumstances. The very point of hierarchies is to know who's resp. for decisions. It's a bad answer.

    – BigMadAndy
    2 hours ago











  • @BigMadAndy what strange assertions?

    – UKMonkey
    2 hours ago











  • To start with: "You clearly didn't discuss your proposal thoroughly because otherwise they'd have raised that it wasn't the best at the time with you."

    – BigMadAndy
    2 hours ago











  • @BigMadAndy that's not an assertion. That's evident from the fact that OP didn't know that the other person was going to raise the other idea.

    – UKMonkey
    2 hours ago



















-1














It's your fault - you should've discussed the problem with your team and come up with a solution that everyone can buy in, then present it to the client.



If you can't agree on a solution, you, taking into account the input from the rest of the team, should've decided on preferred course of action and told the team that the decision has been made.



Instead, you ended up having a brainstorming session in front of the client. There is nothing wrong with that - as long as you are comfortable with it and the client is aware that it's a brainstorming session. You don't want the client to walk away having the impression either you or your team are bickering, unprofessional, or incompetent.



It's not the end of the world, just make sure next time your prepare yourself and your team and clearly communicate what kind of meeting your are expecting to have.






share|improve this answer































    -3














    They're not your subordinates, they're still your coworkers. If you go around thinking your better then them or that your thoughts are more valid, you're going to fail miserably. Managers aren't there to exercise tyrannical control or look good. Managers are there to make sure everyone is doing things that make the company money or otherwise meet it's goals. Suggesting that a potential solution doesn't go against that. It actually helps you reach your goal by helping you make a better decision.



    Bottom line: Good managers listen to their coworkers.



    I want to add, that listening to your coworkers is more than just hearing them. You need to make them feel heard or they'll either keep doing stuff like this or completely give up on you.






    share|improve this answer





















    • 9





      They are both subordinates and coworkers. During a client meeting is the wrong time for any member of the team, manager or otherwise, to pitch something other than what is planned. There are occasions where this may make sense, but generally speaking, the team should be acting like one and not undermining each other and the company as a whole. What your answer does speak to, is there is a possibility that the subordinate doesn't feel like they have an opportunity to influence the decision making process.

      – Gregroy Currie
      22 hours ago






    • 1





      -1. Presumably, TheBoss was responsible (in the RACI sense) for the meeting, and thus if the client dumps them due to such an occurence, TheBoss is in trouble, not the other guy. It's not about TheBoss getting his will and doing his subordinate in, but about how to change this in the future.

      – AnoE
      6 hours ago






    • 1





      @AnoE Sounds like a problem that would be solved by listening to your coworkers. Also sounds like your complaining about educating clients.

      – Steve
      6 hours ago






    • 2





      I am not complaining, and not writing an answer - just commenting on yours... OP is by the style of his question not a tyrannical bad boss, but slightly inexperienced and open to suggestions. The answer, as it stands now, just says "give up and listen to your coworkers" to me. It is not about the question or the content of the meeting. It is about how to appear with a united front towards the customer, and how to fix a problem which turned up multiple times.

      – AnoE
      4 hours ago











    • @AnoE That's not what I wrote, but that's also not what I read from OP. My read on the situation is that OP only got that response because he wasn't listening to his coworkers before.

      – Steve
      2 hours ago











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    8 Answers
    8






    active

    oldest

    votes








    8 Answers
    8






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

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    active

    oldest

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    75















    Now, my first reaction is to have a quite serious conversation with the colleague asserting that this behavior is unacceptable. Are there any better options? If the best solution is to discuss it, how should I frame it?




    Yes, I would say that a one-on-one conversation is in place here, where you explain to your subordinate that improvising or deviating from the plan during meetings is not acceptable.



    You say this is not the first time this happens, but perhaps it's the first time it happens to you as a manager, and it is important to set things straight now to avoid this from happening again.



    Be firm, yet respectful, and make sure to stress that this is not acceptable behavior and that they should stick to what planned for meetings, and that they should pitch with you any ideas or suggestions for meetings before actually doing them.






    share|improve this answer



















    • 49





      Also worth mentioning that it cuts both ways. You as a manager won't deviate from the plan the team agrees on. That way it's clear it's not about ego, it about making sure that your company looks cohesive.

      – Gregroy Currie
      19 hours ago






    • 9





      +1. One thing OP must point is: That kind of behavior don't make his colleague looks smarter, just makes the team looks unprofessional

      – jean
      11 hours ago











    • @Gregroy Currie I don't agree, it does not cut both ways. As the manager you have to make the decision in the best case for the company and the client. Your team could be wrong and if you can't get them to by in to the change sometimes you have to force it. Experience will be a guide for when you have to go against the grain.

      – NDEthos
      5 hours ago
















    75















    Now, my first reaction is to have a quite serious conversation with the colleague asserting that this behavior is unacceptable. Are there any better options? If the best solution is to discuss it, how should I frame it?




    Yes, I would say that a one-on-one conversation is in place here, where you explain to your subordinate that improvising or deviating from the plan during meetings is not acceptable.



    You say this is not the first time this happens, but perhaps it's the first time it happens to you as a manager, and it is important to set things straight now to avoid this from happening again.



    Be firm, yet respectful, and make sure to stress that this is not acceptable behavior and that they should stick to what planned for meetings, and that they should pitch with you any ideas or suggestions for meetings before actually doing them.






    share|improve this answer



















    • 49





      Also worth mentioning that it cuts both ways. You as a manager won't deviate from the plan the team agrees on. That way it's clear it's not about ego, it about making sure that your company looks cohesive.

      – Gregroy Currie
      19 hours ago






    • 9





      +1. One thing OP must point is: That kind of behavior don't make his colleague looks smarter, just makes the team looks unprofessional

      – jean
      11 hours ago











    • @Gregroy Currie I don't agree, it does not cut both ways. As the manager you have to make the decision in the best case for the company and the client. Your team could be wrong and if you can't get them to by in to the change sometimes you have to force it. Experience will be a guide for when you have to go against the grain.

      – NDEthos
      5 hours ago














    75












    75








    75








    Now, my first reaction is to have a quite serious conversation with the colleague asserting that this behavior is unacceptable. Are there any better options? If the best solution is to discuss it, how should I frame it?




    Yes, I would say that a one-on-one conversation is in place here, where you explain to your subordinate that improvising or deviating from the plan during meetings is not acceptable.



    You say this is not the first time this happens, but perhaps it's the first time it happens to you as a manager, and it is important to set things straight now to avoid this from happening again.



    Be firm, yet respectful, and make sure to stress that this is not acceptable behavior and that they should stick to what planned for meetings, and that they should pitch with you any ideas or suggestions for meetings before actually doing them.






    share|improve this answer














    Now, my first reaction is to have a quite serious conversation with the colleague asserting that this behavior is unacceptable. Are there any better options? If the best solution is to discuss it, how should I frame it?




    Yes, I would say that a one-on-one conversation is in place here, where you explain to your subordinate that improvising or deviating from the plan during meetings is not acceptable.



    You say this is not the first time this happens, but perhaps it's the first time it happens to you as a manager, and it is important to set things straight now to avoid this from happening again.



    Be firm, yet respectful, and make sure to stress that this is not acceptable behavior and that they should stick to what planned for meetings, and that they should pitch with you any ideas or suggestions for meetings before actually doing them.







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered yesterday









    DarkCygnusDarkCygnus

    38.3k1884164




    38.3k1884164








    • 49





      Also worth mentioning that it cuts both ways. You as a manager won't deviate from the plan the team agrees on. That way it's clear it's not about ego, it about making sure that your company looks cohesive.

      – Gregroy Currie
      19 hours ago






    • 9





      +1. One thing OP must point is: That kind of behavior don't make his colleague looks smarter, just makes the team looks unprofessional

      – jean
      11 hours ago











    • @Gregroy Currie I don't agree, it does not cut both ways. As the manager you have to make the decision in the best case for the company and the client. Your team could be wrong and if you can't get them to by in to the change sometimes you have to force it. Experience will be a guide for when you have to go against the grain.

      – NDEthos
      5 hours ago














    • 49





      Also worth mentioning that it cuts both ways. You as a manager won't deviate from the plan the team agrees on. That way it's clear it's not about ego, it about making sure that your company looks cohesive.

      – Gregroy Currie
      19 hours ago






    • 9





      +1. One thing OP must point is: That kind of behavior don't make his colleague looks smarter, just makes the team looks unprofessional

      – jean
      11 hours ago











    • @Gregroy Currie I don't agree, it does not cut both ways. As the manager you have to make the decision in the best case for the company and the client. Your team could be wrong and if you can't get them to by in to the change sometimes you have to force it. Experience will be a guide for when you have to go against the grain.

      – NDEthos
      5 hours ago








    49




    49





    Also worth mentioning that it cuts both ways. You as a manager won't deviate from the plan the team agrees on. That way it's clear it's not about ego, it about making sure that your company looks cohesive.

    – Gregroy Currie
    19 hours ago





    Also worth mentioning that it cuts both ways. You as a manager won't deviate from the plan the team agrees on. That way it's clear it's not about ego, it about making sure that your company looks cohesive.

    – Gregroy Currie
    19 hours ago




    9




    9





    +1. One thing OP must point is: That kind of behavior don't make his colleague looks smarter, just makes the team looks unprofessional

    – jean
    11 hours ago





    +1. One thing OP must point is: That kind of behavior don't make his colleague looks smarter, just makes the team looks unprofessional

    – jean
    11 hours ago













    @Gregroy Currie I don't agree, it does not cut both ways. As the manager you have to make the decision in the best case for the company and the client. Your team could be wrong and if you can't get them to by in to the change sometimes you have to force it. Experience will be a guide for when you have to go against the grain.

    – NDEthos
    5 hours ago





    @Gregroy Currie I don't agree, it does not cut both ways. As the manager you have to make the decision in the best case for the company and the client. Your team could be wrong and if you can't get them to by in to the change sometimes you have to force it. Experience will be a guide for when you have to go against the grain.

    – NDEthos
    5 hours ago













    21














    First of all, this is worth establishing:




    • We're all in this boat together.


    This statement requires both of you to operate as a team. Free discussion is something that is quite desirable when the team is together and deciding execution options, but the Client should only see the final result of this discussion - an united front. Which takes us to the second statement:




    • It's way better if the boat gets to the destination.


    The Client may perceive this lack of well-defined roles as disorganization. This is dangerous - this affects their perception on how successful this project can be.



    So we need clear roles:




    • As Project Manager, you're the Mediator.


    You're the one in direct contact with the client. You listen to the Client's woes, discuss with your team, and offer the Client the proposed Solution.




    • Your colleague is the Specialist.


    They're qualified to evaluate the scenario and offer possible outcomes.



    So discuss all you want before the meeting. Raise possible scenarios and implementation options. If called upon at the Mediator's discretion the Specialist may chime in and freely discuss during a live meeting.



    But no conflict of roles should transpire at a meeting with the client, at the risk of weakening the Client's reliance on the capability of your team to deliver.



    Finally, answering your question:




    If the best solution is to discuss it, how should I frame it?




    I agree that this needs to be addressed. Show your colleague the importance of projecting an image of functional, coherent team to a client.






    share|improve this answer





















    • 4





      +1 for We're all in this boat together. That cannot be enough stressed. Unfortunately, some guys just don't get it (never)

      – jean
      11 hours ago


















    21














    First of all, this is worth establishing:




    • We're all in this boat together.


    This statement requires both of you to operate as a team. Free discussion is something that is quite desirable when the team is together and deciding execution options, but the Client should only see the final result of this discussion - an united front. Which takes us to the second statement:




    • It's way better if the boat gets to the destination.


    The Client may perceive this lack of well-defined roles as disorganization. This is dangerous - this affects their perception on how successful this project can be.



    So we need clear roles:




    • As Project Manager, you're the Mediator.


    You're the one in direct contact with the client. You listen to the Client's woes, discuss with your team, and offer the Client the proposed Solution.




    • Your colleague is the Specialist.


    They're qualified to evaluate the scenario and offer possible outcomes.



    So discuss all you want before the meeting. Raise possible scenarios and implementation options. If called upon at the Mediator's discretion the Specialist may chime in and freely discuss during a live meeting.



    But no conflict of roles should transpire at a meeting with the client, at the risk of weakening the Client's reliance on the capability of your team to deliver.



    Finally, answering your question:




    If the best solution is to discuss it, how should I frame it?




    I agree that this needs to be addressed. Show your colleague the importance of projecting an image of functional, coherent team to a client.






    share|improve this answer





















    • 4





      +1 for We're all in this boat together. That cannot be enough stressed. Unfortunately, some guys just don't get it (never)

      – jean
      11 hours ago
















    21












    21








    21







    First of all, this is worth establishing:




    • We're all in this boat together.


    This statement requires both of you to operate as a team. Free discussion is something that is quite desirable when the team is together and deciding execution options, but the Client should only see the final result of this discussion - an united front. Which takes us to the second statement:




    • It's way better if the boat gets to the destination.


    The Client may perceive this lack of well-defined roles as disorganization. This is dangerous - this affects their perception on how successful this project can be.



    So we need clear roles:




    • As Project Manager, you're the Mediator.


    You're the one in direct contact with the client. You listen to the Client's woes, discuss with your team, and offer the Client the proposed Solution.




    • Your colleague is the Specialist.


    They're qualified to evaluate the scenario and offer possible outcomes.



    So discuss all you want before the meeting. Raise possible scenarios and implementation options. If called upon at the Mediator's discretion the Specialist may chime in and freely discuss during a live meeting.



    But no conflict of roles should transpire at a meeting with the client, at the risk of weakening the Client's reliance on the capability of your team to deliver.



    Finally, answering your question:




    If the best solution is to discuss it, how should I frame it?




    I agree that this needs to be addressed. Show your colleague the importance of projecting an image of functional, coherent team to a client.






    share|improve this answer















    First of all, this is worth establishing:




    • We're all in this boat together.


    This statement requires both of you to operate as a team. Free discussion is something that is quite desirable when the team is together and deciding execution options, but the Client should only see the final result of this discussion - an united front. Which takes us to the second statement:




    • It's way better if the boat gets to the destination.


    The Client may perceive this lack of well-defined roles as disorganization. This is dangerous - this affects their perception on how successful this project can be.



    So we need clear roles:




    • As Project Manager, you're the Mediator.


    You're the one in direct contact with the client. You listen to the Client's woes, discuss with your team, and offer the Client the proposed Solution.




    • Your colleague is the Specialist.


    They're qualified to evaluate the scenario and offer possible outcomes.



    So discuss all you want before the meeting. Raise possible scenarios and implementation options. If called upon at the Mediator's discretion the Specialist may chime in and freely discuss during a live meeting.



    But no conflict of roles should transpire at a meeting with the client, at the risk of weakening the Client's reliance on the capability of your team to deliver.



    Finally, answering your question:




    If the best solution is to discuss it, how should I frame it?




    I agree that this needs to be addressed. Show your colleague the importance of projecting an image of functional, coherent team to a client.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited yesterday

























    answered yesterday









    OnoSendaiOnoSendai

    4,18531516




    4,18531516








    • 4





      +1 for We're all in this boat together. That cannot be enough stressed. Unfortunately, some guys just don't get it (never)

      – jean
      11 hours ago
















    • 4





      +1 for We're all in this boat together. That cannot be enough stressed. Unfortunately, some guys just don't get it (never)

      – jean
      11 hours ago










    4




    4





    +1 for We're all in this boat together. That cannot be enough stressed. Unfortunately, some guys just don't get it (never)

    – jean
    11 hours ago







    +1 for We're all in this boat together. That cannot be enough stressed. Unfortunately, some guys just don't get it (never)

    – jean
    11 hours ago













    8














    You don't need to be "bossy", but you certainly need to inform that employee of a few things:




    • Such behavior is a major signal to the client that your business doesn't know what it's doing. You will either not win bids, or will get fired by the client. You will have a bad reputation with that client, which will spread to any other potential clients that they talk to. This has the potential of doing major financial damage to your company and risking the livelihoods of all of you. This behavior is not acceptable and the employee must find a different way to handle the situation.


    • Reservations about the solution must be brought up and addressed before presentation day. At the presentation, your company must show a united front, even if there are reservations or disagreements internally.



    What can you learn on your end?




    • Are the alternative solutions actually better, even in part?


    • Which solutions do the clients prefer?


    • Make sure everyone involved (especially everyone presenting to the client) has plenty of time to give input on the project and the presentation before final decisions are made.


    • Could you officially present multiple proposals with compare/contrast and cost/benefit analysis, and let the client choose which to implement?


    • Don't involve unnecessary personnel in presentations to clients.







    share|improve this answer








    New contributor




    Tim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.
















    • 4





      With regard to "don't involve unnecessary personnel" one could also stress "don't have managers relaying messages between technical teams" as this easily degrades into the party game called "telephone"

      – Chris Stratton
      yesterday






    • 2





      There is a definite difference between being bossy, and being the boss. And in this case the OP was not the boss, a bit of compensating bossiness would probably be useful in preventing a recurrence of such an embarrassment.

      – George M
      yesterday











    • I totally agree with your beginning points. Such dissent in front of a client is absolutely unprofessional makes the whole company look foolish. If the client is to be presented alternatives then that strategy should be agreed upon before the client meeting.

      – MaxW
      18 hours ago
















    8














    You don't need to be "bossy", but you certainly need to inform that employee of a few things:




    • Such behavior is a major signal to the client that your business doesn't know what it's doing. You will either not win bids, or will get fired by the client. You will have a bad reputation with that client, which will spread to any other potential clients that they talk to. This has the potential of doing major financial damage to your company and risking the livelihoods of all of you. This behavior is not acceptable and the employee must find a different way to handle the situation.


    • Reservations about the solution must be brought up and addressed before presentation day. At the presentation, your company must show a united front, even if there are reservations or disagreements internally.



    What can you learn on your end?




    • Are the alternative solutions actually better, even in part?


    • Which solutions do the clients prefer?


    • Make sure everyone involved (especially everyone presenting to the client) has plenty of time to give input on the project and the presentation before final decisions are made.


    • Could you officially present multiple proposals with compare/contrast and cost/benefit analysis, and let the client choose which to implement?


    • Don't involve unnecessary personnel in presentations to clients.







    share|improve this answer








    New contributor




    Tim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.
















    • 4





      With regard to "don't involve unnecessary personnel" one could also stress "don't have managers relaying messages between technical teams" as this easily degrades into the party game called "telephone"

      – Chris Stratton
      yesterday






    • 2





      There is a definite difference between being bossy, and being the boss. And in this case the OP was not the boss, a bit of compensating bossiness would probably be useful in preventing a recurrence of such an embarrassment.

      – George M
      yesterday











    • I totally agree with your beginning points. Such dissent in front of a client is absolutely unprofessional makes the whole company look foolish. If the client is to be presented alternatives then that strategy should be agreed upon before the client meeting.

      – MaxW
      18 hours ago














    8












    8








    8







    You don't need to be "bossy", but you certainly need to inform that employee of a few things:




    • Such behavior is a major signal to the client that your business doesn't know what it's doing. You will either not win bids, or will get fired by the client. You will have a bad reputation with that client, which will spread to any other potential clients that they talk to. This has the potential of doing major financial damage to your company and risking the livelihoods of all of you. This behavior is not acceptable and the employee must find a different way to handle the situation.


    • Reservations about the solution must be brought up and addressed before presentation day. At the presentation, your company must show a united front, even if there are reservations or disagreements internally.



    What can you learn on your end?




    • Are the alternative solutions actually better, even in part?


    • Which solutions do the clients prefer?


    • Make sure everyone involved (especially everyone presenting to the client) has plenty of time to give input on the project and the presentation before final decisions are made.


    • Could you officially present multiple proposals with compare/contrast and cost/benefit analysis, and let the client choose which to implement?


    • Don't involve unnecessary personnel in presentations to clients.







    share|improve this answer








    New contributor




    Tim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.










    You don't need to be "bossy", but you certainly need to inform that employee of a few things:




    • Such behavior is a major signal to the client that your business doesn't know what it's doing. You will either not win bids, or will get fired by the client. You will have a bad reputation with that client, which will spread to any other potential clients that they talk to. This has the potential of doing major financial damage to your company and risking the livelihoods of all of you. This behavior is not acceptable and the employee must find a different way to handle the situation.


    • Reservations about the solution must be brought up and addressed before presentation day. At the presentation, your company must show a united front, even if there are reservations or disagreements internally.



    What can you learn on your end?




    • Are the alternative solutions actually better, even in part?


    • Which solutions do the clients prefer?


    • Make sure everyone involved (especially everyone presenting to the client) has plenty of time to give input on the project and the presentation before final decisions are made.


    • Could you officially present multiple proposals with compare/contrast and cost/benefit analysis, and let the client choose which to implement?


    • Don't involve unnecessary personnel in presentations to clients.








    share|improve this answer








    New contributor




    Tim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.









    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer






    New contributor




    Tim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.









    answered yesterday









    TimTim

    1571




    1571




    New contributor




    Tim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.





    New contributor





    Tim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.






    Tim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.








    • 4





      With regard to "don't involve unnecessary personnel" one could also stress "don't have managers relaying messages between technical teams" as this easily degrades into the party game called "telephone"

      – Chris Stratton
      yesterday






    • 2





      There is a definite difference between being bossy, and being the boss. And in this case the OP was not the boss, a bit of compensating bossiness would probably be useful in preventing a recurrence of such an embarrassment.

      – George M
      yesterday











    • I totally agree with your beginning points. Such dissent in front of a client is absolutely unprofessional makes the whole company look foolish. If the client is to be presented alternatives then that strategy should be agreed upon before the client meeting.

      – MaxW
      18 hours ago














    • 4





      With regard to "don't involve unnecessary personnel" one could also stress "don't have managers relaying messages between technical teams" as this easily degrades into the party game called "telephone"

      – Chris Stratton
      yesterday






    • 2





      There is a definite difference between being bossy, and being the boss. And in this case the OP was not the boss, a bit of compensating bossiness would probably be useful in preventing a recurrence of such an embarrassment.

      – George M
      yesterday











    • I totally agree with your beginning points. Such dissent in front of a client is absolutely unprofessional makes the whole company look foolish. If the client is to be presented alternatives then that strategy should be agreed upon before the client meeting.

      – MaxW
      18 hours ago








    4




    4





    With regard to "don't involve unnecessary personnel" one could also stress "don't have managers relaying messages between technical teams" as this easily degrades into the party game called "telephone"

    – Chris Stratton
    yesterday





    With regard to "don't involve unnecessary personnel" one could also stress "don't have managers relaying messages between technical teams" as this easily degrades into the party game called "telephone"

    – Chris Stratton
    yesterday




    2




    2





    There is a definite difference between being bossy, and being the boss. And in this case the OP was not the boss, a bit of compensating bossiness would probably be useful in preventing a recurrence of such an embarrassment.

    – George M
    yesterday





    There is a definite difference between being bossy, and being the boss. And in this case the OP was not the boss, a bit of compensating bossiness would probably be useful in preventing a recurrence of such an embarrassment.

    – George M
    yesterday













    I totally agree with your beginning points. Such dissent in front of a client is absolutely unprofessional makes the whole company look foolish. If the client is to be presented alternatives then that strategy should be agreed upon before the client meeting.

    – MaxW
    18 hours ago





    I totally agree with your beginning points. Such dissent in front of a client is absolutely unprofessional makes the whole company look foolish. If the client is to be presented alternatives then that strategy should be agreed upon before the client meeting.

    – MaxW
    18 hours ago











    3














    You can take a cue from Netflix's famous culture deck:




    The best managers figure out how to get great outcomes by setting the appropriate context, rather than by trying to control their people




    If you operate under the assumption that your reports would like to do the very best thing for the company, then it's clear that their behavior in these meetings is because they are doing what they think is the very best thing for the company.



    If you have other information to help them make better decisions, as a manager it's your job to provide that context. If you're not having regular 1-on-1's, you should, and it would be a reasonable time to discuss this kind of thing. However, if not you should still invite them to your office for a discussion.



    You: Hey Pat, I'd like to discuss some things that have gone on in some client meetings. I'm operating under the assumption that we both are interested in what's best for the company, would you agree?



    Pat: Sure, boss.



    You: Great! So, in our last client pitch, and in at least two other ones, when we finished our pitch, you started providing other options that we hadn't discussed before hand. From a sales point of view, that leaves us looking kind of weak and disorganized. We really want to provide a united front to the client. Does this make sense, or do you have some information that I'm not aware of?



    At this point either Pat will agree with you - either out of fear or whatever - or they will disagree with you and/or provide you more context.



    It's also possible that they disagree and are wrong.



    If they do agree and carry on the way you'd like, great! Problem solved.



    If they disagree - or they agree, but then do the wrong thing, then you'll have to approach those hurdles.



    One thing that I would also recommend is that before your next meeting you remind them - "Hey, just wanted to double check - we discussed presenting a united front for the customer, so if they ask for alternate solutions, we'll just say, 'We do have some other avenues that we can explore, but right now we believe that this really is the best approach for you. If you'd like, we can provide you some comparisons later.', Okay?"



    With the reminder, and a pre-canned script for those occasions, it will be easier for them not to get off into the weeds.



    The basics here though are:




    • Provide context (ahead of time)

    • Discuss options

    • Provide frameworks and tools to keep things in check






    share|improve this answer



















    • 2





      Continuing on your discussion. Pat: "From my perspective boss, the best way for our company to succeed is to make sure we give our clients the best possible solutions. That is what I was doing in the meeting. Don't you think the client should be aware of the best possible solution?"

      – Gregroy Currie
      16 hours ago






    • 1





      @GregroyCurrie yeah, exactly. It's possible that the employee has more context, but without the discussion, nobody knows

      – Wayne Werner
      12 hours ago
















    3














    You can take a cue from Netflix's famous culture deck:




    The best managers figure out how to get great outcomes by setting the appropriate context, rather than by trying to control their people




    If you operate under the assumption that your reports would like to do the very best thing for the company, then it's clear that their behavior in these meetings is because they are doing what they think is the very best thing for the company.



    If you have other information to help them make better decisions, as a manager it's your job to provide that context. If you're not having regular 1-on-1's, you should, and it would be a reasonable time to discuss this kind of thing. However, if not you should still invite them to your office for a discussion.



    You: Hey Pat, I'd like to discuss some things that have gone on in some client meetings. I'm operating under the assumption that we both are interested in what's best for the company, would you agree?



    Pat: Sure, boss.



    You: Great! So, in our last client pitch, and in at least two other ones, when we finished our pitch, you started providing other options that we hadn't discussed before hand. From a sales point of view, that leaves us looking kind of weak and disorganized. We really want to provide a united front to the client. Does this make sense, or do you have some information that I'm not aware of?



    At this point either Pat will agree with you - either out of fear or whatever - or they will disagree with you and/or provide you more context.



    It's also possible that they disagree and are wrong.



    If they do agree and carry on the way you'd like, great! Problem solved.



    If they disagree - or they agree, but then do the wrong thing, then you'll have to approach those hurdles.



    One thing that I would also recommend is that before your next meeting you remind them - "Hey, just wanted to double check - we discussed presenting a united front for the customer, so if they ask for alternate solutions, we'll just say, 'We do have some other avenues that we can explore, but right now we believe that this really is the best approach for you. If you'd like, we can provide you some comparisons later.', Okay?"



    With the reminder, and a pre-canned script for those occasions, it will be easier for them not to get off into the weeds.



    The basics here though are:




    • Provide context (ahead of time)

    • Discuss options

    • Provide frameworks and tools to keep things in check






    share|improve this answer



















    • 2





      Continuing on your discussion. Pat: "From my perspective boss, the best way for our company to succeed is to make sure we give our clients the best possible solutions. That is what I was doing in the meeting. Don't you think the client should be aware of the best possible solution?"

      – Gregroy Currie
      16 hours ago






    • 1





      @GregroyCurrie yeah, exactly. It's possible that the employee has more context, but without the discussion, nobody knows

      – Wayne Werner
      12 hours ago














    3












    3








    3







    You can take a cue from Netflix's famous culture deck:




    The best managers figure out how to get great outcomes by setting the appropriate context, rather than by trying to control their people




    If you operate under the assumption that your reports would like to do the very best thing for the company, then it's clear that their behavior in these meetings is because they are doing what they think is the very best thing for the company.



    If you have other information to help them make better decisions, as a manager it's your job to provide that context. If you're not having regular 1-on-1's, you should, and it would be a reasonable time to discuss this kind of thing. However, if not you should still invite them to your office for a discussion.



    You: Hey Pat, I'd like to discuss some things that have gone on in some client meetings. I'm operating under the assumption that we both are interested in what's best for the company, would you agree?



    Pat: Sure, boss.



    You: Great! So, in our last client pitch, and in at least two other ones, when we finished our pitch, you started providing other options that we hadn't discussed before hand. From a sales point of view, that leaves us looking kind of weak and disorganized. We really want to provide a united front to the client. Does this make sense, or do you have some information that I'm not aware of?



    At this point either Pat will agree with you - either out of fear or whatever - or they will disagree with you and/or provide you more context.



    It's also possible that they disagree and are wrong.



    If they do agree and carry on the way you'd like, great! Problem solved.



    If they disagree - or they agree, but then do the wrong thing, then you'll have to approach those hurdles.



    One thing that I would also recommend is that before your next meeting you remind them - "Hey, just wanted to double check - we discussed presenting a united front for the customer, so if they ask for alternate solutions, we'll just say, 'We do have some other avenues that we can explore, but right now we believe that this really is the best approach for you. If you'd like, we can provide you some comparisons later.', Okay?"



    With the reminder, and a pre-canned script for those occasions, it will be easier for them not to get off into the weeds.



    The basics here though are:




    • Provide context (ahead of time)

    • Discuss options

    • Provide frameworks and tools to keep things in check






    share|improve this answer













    You can take a cue from Netflix's famous culture deck:




    The best managers figure out how to get great outcomes by setting the appropriate context, rather than by trying to control their people




    If you operate under the assumption that your reports would like to do the very best thing for the company, then it's clear that their behavior in these meetings is because they are doing what they think is the very best thing for the company.



    If you have other information to help them make better decisions, as a manager it's your job to provide that context. If you're not having regular 1-on-1's, you should, and it would be a reasonable time to discuss this kind of thing. However, if not you should still invite them to your office for a discussion.



    You: Hey Pat, I'd like to discuss some things that have gone on in some client meetings. I'm operating under the assumption that we both are interested in what's best for the company, would you agree?



    Pat: Sure, boss.



    You: Great! So, in our last client pitch, and in at least two other ones, when we finished our pitch, you started providing other options that we hadn't discussed before hand. From a sales point of view, that leaves us looking kind of weak and disorganized. We really want to provide a united front to the client. Does this make sense, or do you have some information that I'm not aware of?



    At this point either Pat will agree with you - either out of fear or whatever - or they will disagree with you and/or provide you more context.



    It's also possible that they disagree and are wrong.



    If they do agree and carry on the way you'd like, great! Problem solved.



    If they disagree - or they agree, but then do the wrong thing, then you'll have to approach those hurdles.



    One thing that I would also recommend is that before your next meeting you remind them - "Hey, just wanted to double check - we discussed presenting a united front for the customer, so if they ask for alternate solutions, we'll just say, 'We do have some other avenues that we can explore, but right now we believe that this really is the best approach for you. If you'd like, we can provide you some comparisons later.', Okay?"



    With the reminder, and a pre-canned script for those occasions, it will be easier for them not to get off into the weeds.



    The basics here though are:




    • Provide context (ahead of time)

    • Discuss options

    • Provide frameworks and tools to keep things in check







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 21 hours ago









    Wayne WernerWayne Werner

    677510




    677510








    • 2





      Continuing on your discussion. Pat: "From my perspective boss, the best way for our company to succeed is to make sure we give our clients the best possible solutions. That is what I was doing in the meeting. Don't you think the client should be aware of the best possible solution?"

      – Gregroy Currie
      16 hours ago






    • 1





      @GregroyCurrie yeah, exactly. It's possible that the employee has more context, but without the discussion, nobody knows

      – Wayne Werner
      12 hours ago














    • 2





      Continuing on your discussion. Pat: "From my perspective boss, the best way for our company to succeed is to make sure we give our clients the best possible solutions. That is what I was doing in the meeting. Don't you think the client should be aware of the best possible solution?"

      – Gregroy Currie
      16 hours ago






    • 1





      @GregroyCurrie yeah, exactly. It's possible that the employee has more context, but without the discussion, nobody knows

      – Wayne Werner
      12 hours ago








    2




    2





    Continuing on your discussion. Pat: "From my perspective boss, the best way for our company to succeed is to make sure we give our clients the best possible solutions. That is what I was doing in the meeting. Don't you think the client should be aware of the best possible solution?"

    – Gregroy Currie
    16 hours ago





    Continuing on your discussion. Pat: "From my perspective boss, the best way for our company to succeed is to make sure we give our clients the best possible solutions. That is what I was doing in the meeting. Don't you think the client should be aware of the best possible solution?"

    – Gregroy Currie
    16 hours ago




    1




    1





    @GregroyCurrie yeah, exactly. It's possible that the employee has more context, but without the discussion, nobody knows

    – Wayne Werner
    12 hours ago





    @GregroyCurrie yeah, exactly. It's possible that the employee has more context, but without the discussion, nobody knows

    – Wayne Werner
    12 hours ago











    -1














    If this the first time that You will mention this to this person, then it might not need to be serious.



    You could turn it into a review of that meeting. What went wrong, what went right, what You expected, what actually happened, how You want the Client to view You, your Colleague, your Company....



    Make this a case for how to improve "meetings" with the client.



    If this is an engineer, then they could solve this problem for You.



    But You say, that this has happened repeatedly. That looks to me as if both of you hadn't agreed beforehand on the accepted proposal. Which even more suggests to me You need to work on the pre client meeting.



    Remember, as a manager You are not only charged with getting the job done, but also with understanding and managing the team.






    share|improve this answer
























    • You have a very strange understanding of management. I share with my boss my opinion about things and we discuss possible options. But if he then decides, against my opinion, that we should go direction A because <whatever>, I need to accept it. And I would always present this solution to the client, even if I was against it during the discussion with my boss. Other behavior would be totally unprofessional.

      – BigMadAndy
      2 hours ago











    • @BigMadAndy Everybody has there own style of leading. wisetoast.com/12-different-types-of-leadership-styles

      – Robert Andrzejuk
      1 hour ago













    • @BigMadAndy I prefer more of a "coaching" style. The one You descibe I believe is "autocratic".

      – Robert Andrzejuk
      1 hour ago


















    -1














    If this the first time that You will mention this to this person, then it might not need to be serious.



    You could turn it into a review of that meeting. What went wrong, what went right, what You expected, what actually happened, how You want the Client to view You, your Colleague, your Company....



    Make this a case for how to improve "meetings" with the client.



    If this is an engineer, then they could solve this problem for You.



    But You say, that this has happened repeatedly. That looks to me as if both of you hadn't agreed beforehand on the accepted proposal. Which even more suggests to me You need to work on the pre client meeting.



    Remember, as a manager You are not only charged with getting the job done, but also with understanding and managing the team.






    share|improve this answer
























    • You have a very strange understanding of management. I share with my boss my opinion about things and we discuss possible options. But if he then decides, against my opinion, that we should go direction A because <whatever>, I need to accept it. And I would always present this solution to the client, even if I was against it during the discussion with my boss. Other behavior would be totally unprofessional.

      – BigMadAndy
      2 hours ago











    • @BigMadAndy Everybody has there own style of leading. wisetoast.com/12-different-types-of-leadership-styles

      – Robert Andrzejuk
      1 hour ago













    • @BigMadAndy I prefer more of a "coaching" style. The one You descibe I believe is "autocratic".

      – Robert Andrzejuk
      1 hour ago
















    -1












    -1








    -1







    If this the first time that You will mention this to this person, then it might not need to be serious.



    You could turn it into a review of that meeting. What went wrong, what went right, what You expected, what actually happened, how You want the Client to view You, your Colleague, your Company....



    Make this a case for how to improve "meetings" with the client.



    If this is an engineer, then they could solve this problem for You.



    But You say, that this has happened repeatedly. That looks to me as if both of you hadn't agreed beforehand on the accepted proposal. Which even more suggests to me You need to work on the pre client meeting.



    Remember, as a manager You are not only charged with getting the job done, but also with understanding and managing the team.






    share|improve this answer













    If this the first time that You will mention this to this person, then it might not need to be serious.



    You could turn it into a review of that meeting. What went wrong, what went right, what You expected, what actually happened, how You want the Client to view You, your Colleague, your Company....



    Make this a case for how to improve "meetings" with the client.



    If this is an engineer, then they could solve this problem for You.



    But You say, that this has happened repeatedly. That looks to me as if both of you hadn't agreed beforehand on the accepted proposal. Which even more suggests to me You need to work on the pre client meeting.



    Remember, as a manager You are not only charged with getting the job done, but also with understanding and managing the team.







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 13 hours ago









    Robert AndrzejukRobert Andrzejuk

    2055




    2055













    • You have a very strange understanding of management. I share with my boss my opinion about things and we discuss possible options. But if he then decides, against my opinion, that we should go direction A because <whatever>, I need to accept it. And I would always present this solution to the client, even if I was against it during the discussion with my boss. Other behavior would be totally unprofessional.

      – BigMadAndy
      2 hours ago











    • @BigMadAndy Everybody has there own style of leading. wisetoast.com/12-different-types-of-leadership-styles

      – Robert Andrzejuk
      1 hour ago













    • @BigMadAndy I prefer more of a "coaching" style. The one You descibe I believe is "autocratic".

      – Robert Andrzejuk
      1 hour ago





















    • You have a very strange understanding of management. I share with my boss my opinion about things and we discuss possible options. But if he then decides, against my opinion, that we should go direction A because <whatever>, I need to accept it. And I would always present this solution to the client, even if I was against it during the discussion with my boss. Other behavior would be totally unprofessional.

      – BigMadAndy
      2 hours ago











    • @BigMadAndy Everybody has there own style of leading. wisetoast.com/12-different-types-of-leadership-styles

      – Robert Andrzejuk
      1 hour ago













    • @BigMadAndy I prefer more of a "coaching" style. The one You descibe I believe is "autocratic".

      – Robert Andrzejuk
      1 hour ago



















    You have a very strange understanding of management. I share with my boss my opinion about things and we discuss possible options. But if he then decides, against my opinion, that we should go direction A because <whatever>, I need to accept it. And I would always present this solution to the client, even if I was against it during the discussion with my boss. Other behavior would be totally unprofessional.

    – BigMadAndy
    2 hours ago





    You have a very strange understanding of management. I share with my boss my opinion about things and we discuss possible options. But if he then decides, against my opinion, that we should go direction A because <whatever>, I need to accept it. And I would always present this solution to the client, even if I was against it during the discussion with my boss. Other behavior would be totally unprofessional.

    – BigMadAndy
    2 hours ago













    @BigMadAndy Everybody has there own style of leading. wisetoast.com/12-different-types-of-leadership-styles

    – Robert Andrzejuk
    1 hour ago







    @BigMadAndy Everybody has there own style of leading. wisetoast.com/12-different-types-of-leadership-styles

    – Robert Andrzejuk
    1 hour ago















    @BigMadAndy I prefer more of a "coaching" style. The one You descibe I believe is "autocratic".

    – Robert Andrzejuk
    1 hour ago







    @BigMadAndy I prefer more of a "coaching" style. The one You descibe I believe is "autocratic".

    – Robert Andrzejuk
    1 hour ago













    -1















    "You work on a project with your subordinate, discuss it thoroughly"




    The last bit of this is contradicted by the rest of the question. You clearly didn't discuss your proposal thoroughly because otherwise they'd have raised that it wasn't the best at the time with you.



    As manager, it is your role to ensure that communication doesn't break down within the team; so you must establish if this person isn't getting a chance to state their opinions; or if their opinions are getting rejected without sufficient justification etc.



    If this person keeps embarrassing you in front of the client however, then I would just stop inviting them to the meetings.



    Alternatively, something came up in the meeting that meant that an assertion made about why proposal A was better than B was broken, and that is exactly WHY you have these meetings; to ensure that everyone is on the same page.






    share|improve this answer
























    • Wow, you make some very strange assertions. I know plenty of people who won't tell you they think your proposal is bad during a 1:1 but they will when discussing the proposal with your boss present. Not to mention there are plenty of fools out there too. They need an audience to feel important. And: good bosses give some justifications and try to build consensus. But it's not bosses' role to spend whole days explaining their decisions to their subordinates unless under very special circumstances. The very point of hierarchies is to know who's resp. for decisions. It's a bad answer.

      – BigMadAndy
      2 hours ago











    • @BigMadAndy what strange assertions?

      – UKMonkey
      2 hours ago











    • To start with: "You clearly didn't discuss your proposal thoroughly because otherwise they'd have raised that it wasn't the best at the time with you."

      – BigMadAndy
      2 hours ago











    • @BigMadAndy that's not an assertion. That's evident from the fact that OP didn't know that the other person was going to raise the other idea.

      – UKMonkey
      2 hours ago
















    -1















    "You work on a project with your subordinate, discuss it thoroughly"




    The last bit of this is contradicted by the rest of the question. You clearly didn't discuss your proposal thoroughly because otherwise they'd have raised that it wasn't the best at the time with you.



    As manager, it is your role to ensure that communication doesn't break down within the team; so you must establish if this person isn't getting a chance to state their opinions; or if their opinions are getting rejected without sufficient justification etc.



    If this person keeps embarrassing you in front of the client however, then I would just stop inviting them to the meetings.



    Alternatively, something came up in the meeting that meant that an assertion made about why proposal A was better than B was broken, and that is exactly WHY you have these meetings; to ensure that everyone is on the same page.






    share|improve this answer
























    • Wow, you make some very strange assertions. I know plenty of people who won't tell you they think your proposal is bad during a 1:1 but they will when discussing the proposal with your boss present. Not to mention there are plenty of fools out there too. They need an audience to feel important. And: good bosses give some justifications and try to build consensus. But it's not bosses' role to spend whole days explaining their decisions to their subordinates unless under very special circumstances. The very point of hierarchies is to know who's resp. for decisions. It's a bad answer.

      – BigMadAndy
      2 hours ago











    • @BigMadAndy what strange assertions?

      – UKMonkey
      2 hours ago











    • To start with: "You clearly didn't discuss your proposal thoroughly because otherwise they'd have raised that it wasn't the best at the time with you."

      – BigMadAndy
      2 hours ago











    • @BigMadAndy that's not an assertion. That's evident from the fact that OP didn't know that the other person was going to raise the other idea.

      – UKMonkey
      2 hours ago














    -1












    -1








    -1








    "You work on a project with your subordinate, discuss it thoroughly"




    The last bit of this is contradicted by the rest of the question. You clearly didn't discuss your proposal thoroughly because otherwise they'd have raised that it wasn't the best at the time with you.



    As manager, it is your role to ensure that communication doesn't break down within the team; so you must establish if this person isn't getting a chance to state their opinions; or if their opinions are getting rejected without sufficient justification etc.



    If this person keeps embarrassing you in front of the client however, then I would just stop inviting them to the meetings.



    Alternatively, something came up in the meeting that meant that an assertion made about why proposal A was better than B was broken, and that is exactly WHY you have these meetings; to ensure that everyone is on the same page.






    share|improve this answer














    "You work on a project with your subordinate, discuss it thoroughly"




    The last bit of this is contradicted by the rest of the question. You clearly didn't discuss your proposal thoroughly because otherwise they'd have raised that it wasn't the best at the time with you.



    As manager, it is your role to ensure that communication doesn't break down within the team; so you must establish if this person isn't getting a chance to state their opinions; or if their opinions are getting rejected without sufficient justification etc.



    If this person keeps embarrassing you in front of the client however, then I would just stop inviting them to the meetings.



    Alternatively, something came up in the meeting that meant that an assertion made about why proposal A was better than B was broken, and that is exactly WHY you have these meetings; to ensure that everyone is on the same page.







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 12 hours ago









    UKMonkeyUKMonkey

    2,321515




    2,321515













    • Wow, you make some very strange assertions. I know plenty of people who won't tell you they think your proposal is bad during a 1:1 but they will when discussing the proposal with your boss present. Not to mention there are plenty of fools out there too. They need an audience to feel important. And: good bosses give some justifications and try to build consensus. But it's not bosses' role to spend whole days explaining their decisions to their subordinates unless under very special circumstances. The very point of hierarchies is to know who's resp. for decisions. It's a bad answer.

      – BigMadAndy
      2 hours ago











    • @BigMadAndy what strange assertions?

      – UKMonkey
      2 hours ago











    • To start with: "You clearly didn't discuss your proposal thoroughly because otherwise they'd have raised that it wasn't the best at the time with you."

      – BigMadAndy
      2 hours ago











    • @BigMadAndy that's not an assertion. That's evident from the fact that OP didn't know that the other person was going to raise the other idea.

      – UKMonkey
      2 hours ago



















    • Wow, you make some very strange assertions. I know plenty of people who won't tell you they think your proposal is bad during a 1:1 but they will when discussing the proposal with your boss present. Not to mention there are plenty of fools out there too. They need an audience to feel important. And: good bosses give some justifications and try to build consensus. But it's not bosses' role to spend whole days explaining their decisions to their subordinates unless under very special circumstances. The very point of hierarchies is to know who's resp. for decisions. It's a bad answer.

      – BigMadAndy
      2 hours ago











    • @BigMadAndy what strange assertions?

      – UKMonkey
      2 hours ago











    • To start with: "You clearly didn't discuss your proposal thoroughly because otherwise they'd have raised that it wasn't the best at the time with you."

      – BigMadAndy
      2 hours ago











    • @BigMadAndy that's not an assertion. That's evident from the fact that OP didn't know that the other person was going to raise the other idea.

      – UKMonkey
      2 hours ago

















    Wow, you make some very strange assertions. I know plenty of people who won't tell you they think your proposal is bad during a 1:1 but they will when discussing the proposal with your boss present. Not to mention there are plenty of fools out there too. They need an audience to feel important. And: good bosses give some justifications and try to build consensus. But it's not bosses' role to spend whole days explaining their decisions to their subordinates unless under very special circumstances. The very point of hierarchies is to know who's resp. for decisions. It's a bad answer.

    – BigMadAndy
    2 hours ago





    Wow, you make some very strange assertions. I know plenty of people who won't tell you they think your proposal is bad during a 1:1 but they will when discussing the proposal with your boss present. Not to mention there are plenty of fools out there too. They need an audience to feel important. And: good bosses give some justifications and try to build consensus. But it's not bosses' role to spend whole days explaining their decisions to their subordinates unless under very special circumstances. The very point of hierarchies is to know who's resp. for decisions. It's a bad answer.

    – BigMadAndy
    2 hours ago













    @BigMadAndy what strange assertions?

    – UKMonkey
    2 hours ago





    @BigMadAndy what strange assertions?

    – UKMonkey
    2 hours ago













    To start with: "You clearly didn't discuss your proposal thoroughly because otherwise they'd have raised that it wasn't the best at the time with you."

    – BigMadAndy
    2 hours ago





    To start with: "You clearly didn't discuss your proposal thoroughly because otherwise they'd have raised that it wasn't the best at the time with you."

    – BigMadAndy
    2 hours ago













    @BigMadAndy that's not an assertion. That's evident from the fact that OP didn't know that the other person was going to raise the other idea.

    – UKMonkey
    2 hours ago





    @BigMadAndy that's not an assertion. That's evident from the fact that OP didn't know that the other person was going to raise the other idea.

    – UKMonkey
    2 hours ago











    -1














    It's your fault - you should've discussed the problem with your team and come up with a solution that everyone can buy in, then present it to the client.



    If you can't agree on a solution, you, taking into account the input from the rest of the team, should've decided on preferred course of action and told the team that the decision has been made.



    Instead, you ended up having a brainstorming session in front of the client. There is nothing wrong with that - as long as you are comfortable with it and the client is aware that it's a brainstorming session. You don't want the client to walk away having the impression either you or your team are bickering, unprofessional, or incompetent.



    It's not the end of the world, just make sure next time your prepare yourself and your team and clearly communicate what kind of meeting your are expecting to have.






    share|improve this answer




























      -1














      It's your fault - you should've discussed the problem with your team and come up with a solution that everyone can buy in, then present it to the client.



      If you can't agree on a solution, you, taking into account the input from the rest of the team, should've decided on preferred course of action and told the team that the decision has been made.



      Instead, you ended up having a brainstorming session in front of the client. There is nothing wrong with that - as long as you are comfortable with it and the client is aware that it's a brainstorming session. You don't want the client to walk away having the impression either you or your team are bickering, unprofessional, or incompetent.



      It's not the end of the world, just make sure next time your prepare yourself and your team and clearly communicate what kind of meeting your are expecting to have.






      share|improve this answer


























        -1












        -1








        -1







        It's your fault - you should've discussed the problem with your team and come up with a solution that everyone can buy in, then present it to the client.



        If you can't agree on a solution, you, taking into account the input from the rest of the team, should've decided on preferred course of action and told the team that the decision has been made.



        Instead, you ended up having a brainstorming session in front of the client. There is nothing wrong with that - as long as you are comfortable with it and the client is aware that it's a brainstorming session. You don't want the client to walk away having the impression either you or your team are bickering, unprofessional, or incompetent.



        It's not the end of the world, just make sure next time your prepare yourself and your team and clearly communicate what kind of meeting your are expecting to have.






        share|improve this answer













        It's your fault - you should've discussed the problem with your team and come up with a solution that everyone can buy in, then present it to the client.



        If you can't agree on a solution, you, taking into account the input from the rest of the team, should've decided on preferred course of action and told the team that the decision has been made.



        Instead, you ended up having a brainstorming session in front of the client. There is nothing wrong with that - as long as you are comfortable with it and the client is aware that it's a brainstorming session. You don't want the client to walk away having the impression either you or your team are bickering, unprofessional, or incompetent.



        It's not the end of the world, just make sure next time your prepare yourself and your team and clearly communicate what kind of meeting your are expecting to have.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 6 hours ago









        ventsyvventsyv

        1,349413




        1,349413























            -3














            They're not your subordinates, they're still your coworkers. If you go around thinking your better then them or that your thoughts are more valid, you're going to fail miserably. Managers aren't there to exercise tyrannical control or look good. Managers are there to make sure everyone is doing things that make the company money or otherwise meet it's goals. Suggesting that a potential solution doesn't go against that. It actually helps you reach your goal by helping you make a better decision.



            Bottom line: Good managers listen to their coworkers.



            I want to add, that listening to your coworkers is more than just hearing them. You need to make them feel heard or they'll either keep doing stuff like this or completely give up on you.






            share|improve this answer





















            • 9





              They are both subordinates and coworkers. During a client meeting is the wrong time for any member of the team, manager or otherwise, to pitch something other than what is planned. There are occasions where this may make sense, but generally speaking, the team should be acting like one and not undermining each other and the company as a whole. What your answer does speak to, is there is a possibility that the subordinate doesn't feel like they have an opportunity to influence the decision making process.

              – Gregroy Currie
              22 hours ago






            • 1





              -1. Presumably, TheBoss was responsible (in the RACI sense) for the meeting, and thus if the client dumps them due to such an occurence, TheBoss is in trouble, not the other guy. It's not about TheBoss getting his will and doing his subordinate in, but about how to change this in the future.

              – AnoE
              6 hours ago






            • 1





              @AnoE Sounds like a problem that would be solved by listening to your coworkers. Also sounds like your complaining about educating clients.

              – Steve
              6 hours ago






            • 2





              I am not complaining, and not writing an answer - just commenting on yours... OP is by the style of his question not a tyrannical bad boss, but slightly inexperienced and open to suggestions. The answer, as it stands now, just says "give up and listen to your coworkers" to me. It is not about the question or the content of the meeting. It is about how to appear with a united front towards the customer, and how to fix a problem which turned up multiple times.

              – AnoE
              4 hours ago











            • @AnoE That's not what I wrote, but that's also not what I read from OP. My read on the situation is that OP only got that response because he wasn't listening to his coworkers before.

              – Steve
              2 hours ago
















            -3














            They're not your subordinates, they're still your coworkers. If you go around thinking your better then them or that your thoughts are more valid, you're going to fail miserably. Managers aren't there to exercise tyrannical control or look good. Managers are there to make sure everyone is doing things that make the company money or otherwise meet it's goals. Suggesting that a potential solution doesn't go against that. It actually helps you reach your goal by helping you make a better decision.



            Bottom line: Good managers listen to their coworkers.



            I want to add, that listening to your coworkers is more than just hearing them. You need to make them feel heard or they'll either keep doing stuff like this or completely give up on you.






            share|improve this answer





















            • 9





              They are both subordinates and coworkers. During a client meeting is the wrong time for any member of the team, manager or otherwise, to pitch something other than what is planned. There are occasions where this may make sense, but generally speaking, the team should be acting like one and not undermining each other and the company as a whole. What your answer does speak to, is there is a possibility that the subordinate doesn't feel like they have an opportunity to influence the decision making process.

              – Gregroy Currie
              22 hours ago






            • 1





              -1. Presumably, TheBoss was responsible (in the RACI sense) for the meeting, and thus if the client dumps them due to such an occurence, TheBoss is in trouble, not the other guy. It's not about TheBoss getting his will and doing his subordinate in, but about how to change this in the future.

              – AnoE
              6 hours ago






            • 1





              @AnoE Sounds like a problem that would be solved by listening to your coworkers. Also sounds like your complaining about educating clients.

              – Steve
              6 hours ago






            • 2





              I am not complaining, and not writing an answer - just commenting on yours... OP is by the style of his question not a tyrannical bad boss, but slightly inexperienced and open to suggestions. The answer, as it stands now, just says "give up and listen to your coworkers" to me. It is not about the question or the content of the meeting. It is about how to appear with a united front towards the customer, and how to fix a problem which turned up multiple times.

              – AnoE
              4 hours ago











            • @AnoE That's not what I wrote, but that's also not what I read from OP. My read on the situation is that OP only got that response because he wasn't listening to his coworkers before.

              – Steve
              2 hours ago














            -3












            -3








            -3







            They're not your subordinates, they're still your coworkers. If you go around thinking your better then them or that your thoughts are more valid, you're going to fail miserably. Managers aren't there to exercise tyrannical control or look good. Managers are there to make sure everyone is doing things that make the company money or otherwise meet it's goals. Suggesting that a potential solution doesn't go against that. It actually helps you reach your goal by helping you make a better decision.



            Bottom line: Good managers listen to their coworkers.



            I want to add, that listening to your coworkers is more than just hearing them. You need to make them feel heard or they'll either keep doing stuff like this or completely give up on you.






            share|improve this answer















            They're not your subordinates, they're still your coworkers. If you go around thinking your better then them or that your thoughts are more valid, you're going to fail miserably. Managers aren't there to exercise tyrannical control or look good. Managers are there to make sure everyone is doing things that make the company money or otherwise meet it's goals. Suggesting that a potential solution doesn't go against that. It actually helps you reach your goal by helping you make a better decision.



            Bottom line: Good managers listen to their coworkers.



            I want to add, that listening to your coworkers is more than just hearing them. You need to make them feel heard or they'll either keep doing stuff like this or completely give up on you.







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited 2 hours ago

























            answered 23 hours ago









            SteveSteve

            3,069618




            3,069618








            • 9





              They are both subordinates and coworkers. During a client meeting is the wrong time for any member of the team, manager or otherwise, to pitch something other than what is planned. There are occasions where this may make sense, but generally speaking, the team should be acting like one and not undermining each other and the company as a whole. What your answer does speak to, is there is a possibility that the subordinate doesn't feel like they have an opportunity to influence the decision making process.

              – Gregroy Currie
              22 hours ago






            • 1





              -1. Presumably, TheBoss was responsible (in the RACI sense) for the meeting, and thus if the client dumps them due to such an occurence, TheBoss is in trouble, not the other guy. It's not about TheBoss getting his will and doing his subordinate in, but about how to change this in the future.

              – AnoE
              6 hours ago






            • 1





              @AnoE Sounds like a problem that would be solved by listening to your coworkers. Also sounds like your complaining about educating clients.

              – Steve
              6 hours ago






            • 2





              I am not complaining, and not writing an answer - just commenting on yours... OP is by the style of his question not a tyrannical bad boss, but slightly inexperienced and open to suggestions. The answer, as it stands now, just says "give up and listen to your coworkers" to me. It is not about the question or the content of the meeting. It is about how to appear with a united front towards the customer, and how to fix a problem which turned up multiple times.

              – AnoE
              4 hours ago











            • @AnoE That's not what I wrote, but that's also not what I read from OP. My read on the situation is that OP only got that response because he wasn't listening to his coworkers before.

              – Steve
              2 hours ago














            • 9





              They are both subordinates and coworkers. During a client meeting is the wrong time for any member of the team, manager or otherwise, to pitch something other than what is planned. There are occasions where this may make sense, but generally speaking, the team should be acting like one and not undermining each other and the company as a whole. What your answer does speak to, is there is a possibility that the subordinate doesn't feel like they have an opportunity to influence the decision making process.

              – Gregroy Currie
              22 hours ago






            • 1





              -1. Presumably, TheBoss was responsible (in the RACI sense) for the meeting, and thus if the client dumps them due to such an occurence, TheBoss is in trouble, not the other guy. It's not about TheBoss getting his will and doing his subordinate in, but about how to change this in the future.

              – AnoE
              6 hours ago






            • 1





              @AnoE Sounds like a problem that would be solved by listening to your coworkers. Also sounds like your complaining about educating clients.

              – Steve
              6 hours ago






            • 2





              I am not complaining, and not writing an answer - just commenting on yours... OP is by the style of his question not a tyrannical bad boss, but slightly inexperienced and open to suggestions. The answer, as it stands now, just says "give up and listen to your coworkers" to me. It is not about the question or the content of the meeting. It is about how to appear with a united front towards the customer, and how to fix a problem which turned up multiple times.

              – AnoE
              4 hours ago











            • @AnoE That's not what I wrote, but that's also not what I read from OP. My read on the situation is that OP only got that response because he wasn't listening to his coworkers before.

              – Steve
              2 hours ago








            9




            9





            They are both subordinates and coworkers. During a client meeting is the wrong time for any member of the team, manager or otherwise, to pitch something other than what is planned. There are occasions where this may make sense, but generally speaking, the team should be acting like one and not undermining each other and the company as a whole. What your answer does speak to, is there is a possibility that the subordinate doesn't feel like they have an opportunity to influence the decision making process.

            – Gregroy Currie
            22 hours ago





            They are both subordinates and coworkers. During a client meeting is the wrong time for any member of the team, manager or otherwise, to pitch something other than what is planned. There are occasions where this may make sense, but generally speaking, the team should be acting like one and not undermining each other and the company as a whole. What your answer does speak to, is there is a possibility that the subordinate doesn't feel like they have an opportunity to influence the decision making process.

            – Gregroy Currie
            22 hours ago




            1




            1





            -1. Presumably, TheBoss was responsible (in the RACI sense) for the meeting, and thus if the client dumps them due to such an occurence, TheBoss is in trouble, not the other guy. It's not about TheBoss getting his will and doing his subordinate in, but about how to change this in the future.

            – AnoE
            6 hours ago





            -1. Presumably, TheBoss was responsible (in the RACI sense) for the meeting, and thus if the client dumps them due to such an occurence, TheBoss is in trouble, not the other guy. It's not about TheBoss getting his will and doing his subordinate in, but about how to change this in the future.

            – AnoE
            6 hours ago




            1




            1





            @AnoE Sounds like a problem that would be solved by listening to your coworkers. Also sounds like your complaining about educating clients.

            – Steve
            6 hours ago





            @AnoE Sounds like a problem that would be solved by listening to your coworkers. Also sounds like your complaining about educating clients.

            – Steve
            6 hours ago




            2




            2





            I am not complaining, and not writing an answer - just commenting on yours... OP is by the style of his question not a tyrannical bad boss, but slightly inexperienced and open to suggestions. The answer, as it stands now, just says "give up and listen to your coworkers" to me. It is not about the question or the content of the meeting. It is about how to appear with a united front towards the customer, and how to fix a problem which turned up multiple times.

            – AnoE
            4 hours ago





            I am not complaining, and not writing an answer - just commenting on yours... OP is by the style of his question not a tyrannical bad boss, but slightly inexperienced and open to suggestions. The answer, as it stands now, just says "give up and listen to your coworkers" to me. It is not about the question or the content of the meeting. It is about how to appear with a united front towards the customer, and how to fix a problem which turned up multiple times.

            – AnoE
            4 hours ago













            @AnoE That's not what I wrote, but that's also not what I read from OP. My read on the situation is that OP only got that response because he wasn't listening to his coworkers before.

            – Steve
            2 hours ago





            @AnoE That's not what I wrote, but that's also not what I read from OP. My read on the situation is that OP only got that response because he wasn't listening to his coworkers before.

            – Steve
            2 hours ago










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