Do natural melee weapons (from racial traits) trigger Improved Divine Smite?












17












$begingroup$


Following up on
Does Improved Divine Smite trigger when a paladin makes an unarmed strike?




Improved Divine Smite will not trigger on an unarmed strike.




Context



The paladin in my campaign – covered in my previous question – is a minotaur. This means he could attack with his horns, to potentially trigger Improved Divine Smite.



Minotaur, Unearthed Arcana: Centaurs and Minotaurs:




Horns. Your horns are natural melee weapons, with which you’re proficient. When you hit with
them, the target takes piercing damage equal to 1d6 + your Strength modifier.




Paladin, PHB page 85:




Improved Divine Smite. By 11th level, whenever you hit a creature with a melee weapon, the creature takes an extra 1d8 radiant damage.




Question



Do natural melee weapons from racial traits trigger Improved Divine Smite?



In other words, do natural weapons count as melee weapons? Or is there some other rule that categorizes/treats natural melee weapons differently from other melee weapons?



For my campaign I'm mostly interested in the natural melee weapon from minotaurs. I'm assuming, however, the same rules would apply for other natural melee weapons gained through racial traits – e.g. a lizardfolk's Bite, tabaxi's Claw, centaur's Hoove, etc. If this assumption is wrong, please enlighten me.










share|improve this question









$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Just so you know, the minotaur race from that UA has been published in a slightly modified(?) form in the Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica.
    $endgroup$
    – V2Blast
    yesterday
















17












$begingroup$


Following up on
Does Improved Divine Smite trigger when a paladin makes an unarmed strike?




Improved Divine Smite will not trigger on an unarmed strike.




Context



The paladin in my campaign – covered in my previous question – is a minotaur. This means he could attack with his horns, to potentially trigger Improved Divine Smite.



Minotaur, Unearthed Arcana: Centaurs and Minotaurs:




Horns. Your horns are natural melee weapons, with which you’re proficient. When you hit with
them, the target takes piercing damage equal to 1d6 + your Strength modifier.




Paladin, PHB page 85:




Improved Divine Smite. By 11th level, whenever you hit a creature with a melee weapon, the creature takes an extra 1d8 radiant damage.




Question



Do natural melee weapons from racial traits trigger Improved Divine Smite?



In other words, do natural weapons count as melee weapons? Or is there some other rule that categorizes/treats natural melee weapons differently from other melee weapons?



For my campaign I'm mostly interested in the natural melee weapon from minotaurs. I'm assuming, however, the same rules would apply for other natural melee weapons gained through racial traits – e.g. a lizardfolk's Bite, tabaxi's Claw, centaur's Hoove, etc. If this assumption is wrong, please enlighten me.










share|improve this question









$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Just so you know, the minotaur race from that UA has been published in a slightly modified(?) form in the Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica.
    $endgroup$
    – V2Blast
    yesterday














17












17








17





$begingroup$


Following up on
Does Improved Divine Smite trigger when a paladin makes an unarmed strike?




Improved Divine Smite will not trigger on an unarmed strike.




Context



The paladin in my campaign – covered in my previous question – is a minotaur. This means he could attack with his horns, to potentially trigger Improved Divine Smite.



Minotaur, Unearthed Arcana: Centaurs and Minotaurs:




Horns. Your horns are natural melee weapons, with which you’re proficient. When you hit with
them, the target takes piercing damage equal to 1d6 + your Strength modifier.




Paladin, PHB page 85:




Improved Divine Smite. By 11th level, whenever you hit a creature with a melee weapon, the creature takes an extra 1d8 radiant damage.




Question



Do natural melee weapons from racial traits trigger Improved Divine Smite?



In other words, do natural weapons count as melee weapons? Or is there some other rule that categorizes/treats natural melee weapons differently from other melee weapons?



For my campaign I'm mostly interested in the natural melee weapon from minotaurs. I'm assuming, however, the same rules would apply for other natural melee weapons gained through racial traits – e.g. a lizardfolk's Bite, tabaxi's Claw, centaur's Hoove, etc. If this assumption is wrong, please enlighten me.










share|improve this question









$endgroup$




Following up on
Does Improved Divine Smite trigger when a paladin makes an unarmed strike?




Improved Divine Smite will not trigger on an unarmed strike.




Context



The paladin in my campaign – covered in my previous question – is a minotaur. This means he could attack with his horns, to potentially trigger Improved Divine Smite.



Minotaur, Unearthed Arcana: Centaurs and Minotaurs:




Horns. Your horns are natural melee weapons, with which you’re proficient. When you hit with
them, the target takes piercing damage equal to 1d6 + your Strength modifier.




Paladin, PHB page 85:




Improved Divine Smite. By 11th level, whenever you hit a creature with a melee weapon, the creature takes an extra 1d8 radiant damage.




Question



Do natural melee weapons from racial traits trigger Improved Divine Smite?



In other words, do natural weapons count as melee weapons? Or is there some other rule that categorizes/treats natural melee weapons differently from other melee weapons?



For my campaign I'm mostly interested in the natural melee weapon from minotaurs. I'm assuming, however, the same rules would apply for other natural melee weapons gained through racial traits – e.g. a lizardfolk's Bite, tabaxi's Claw, centaur's Hoove, etc. If this assumption is wrong, please enlighten me.







dnd-5e class-feature paladin racial-traits natural-weapon






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked yesterday









VadrukVadruk

2,53311557




2,53311557








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Just so you know, the minotaur race from that UA has been published in a slightly modified(?) form in the Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica.
    $endgroup$
    – V2Blast
    yesterday














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Just so you know, the minotaur race from that UA has been published in a slightly modified(?) form in the Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica.
    $endgroup$
    – V2Blast
    yesterday








1




1




$begingroup$
Just so you know, the minotaur race from that UA has been published in a slightly modified(?) form in the Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
yesterday




$begingroup$
Just so you know, the minotaur race from that UA has been published in a slightly modified(?) form in the Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
yesterday










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















15












$begingroup$

Yes, if the racial rule calls them weapons



As your other linked answer states, Unarmed Strikes do not work for Improved Divine Strike because the rules say Unarmed Strikes are not weapons:




Instead of using a weapon to make a melee weapon attack, you can use an unarmed strike: a punch, kick, head-butt, or similar forceful blow (none of which count as weapons).




But the racial ability for Minotaur horns specifically says the horns are a weapon:




Your horns are natural melee weapons




What is happening here is that there is a specific rule/allowance for the Minotaur that is similar to (but different from) a general prohibition.



The minotaur is not making an Unarmed Strike (a head-butt). It is making an attack with a weapon which happens to be located on its head.



Contrast this with the Aarakocra's Talons:




Talons



You are proficient with your unarmed strikes, which deal 1d4 slashing damage on a hit.




(Hat tip to Justin for the Aarakocra example)



Also, Jeremy Crawford has tweeted an affirmation of this answer.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    There is a sageadvice to this same question: sageadvice.eu/2018/06/06/…
    $endgroup$
    – Vylix
    23 hours ago



















9












$begingroup$

Yes, if it says they are weapons



The Minotaur race Horns racial feature says (emphasis mine):




Your horns are natural melee weapons, with which you’re
proficient. When you hit with them, the target takes piercing damage
equal to 1d6 + your Strength modifier.




Divine smite says:




By 11th level, whenever you hit a creature with a melee weapon, the creature takes

an extra 1d8 radiant damage.




So, in this case it is valid, as it says that your horns are weapons. However, this only applies to the Minotaur race. Racial attack abilities vary between races. For instance, the Aarakockra race's Talon racial feature says:




You are proficient with your unarmed strikes, which deal 1d4 slashing damage on a hit.




In this case, it does not say that the talons are weapons, and it therefore follows the 'it does not work' unarmed strikes path.



You can tell the difference between the racial attacks eligible for Improved Divine Smite, and those ineligible, as the valid ones say that it is a weapon, and the not valid ones don't.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    There is a sageadvice to this same question: sageadvice.eu/2018/06/06/…
    $endgroup$
    – Vylix
    23 hours ago











Your Answer





StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["\$", "\$"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");

StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "122"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});

function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});


}
});














draft saved

draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f142688%2fdo-natural-melee-weapons-from-racial-traits-trigger-improved-divine-smite%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown

























2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









15












$begingroup$

Yes, if the racial rule calls them weapons



As your other linked answer states, Unarmed Strikes do not work for Improved Divine Strike because the rules say Unarmed Strikes are not weapons:




Instead of using a weapon to make a melee weapon attack, you can use an unarmed strike: a punch, kick, head-butt, or similar forceful blow (none of which count as weapons).




But the racial ability for Minotaur horns specifically says the horns are a weapon:




Your horns are natural melee weapons




What is happening here is that there is a specific rule/allowance for the Minotaur that is similar to (but different from) a general prohibition.



The minotaur is not making an Unarmed Strike (a head-butt). It is making an attack with a weapon which happens to be located on its head.



Contrast this with the Aarakocra's Talons:




Talons



You are proficient with your unarmed strikes, which deal 1d4 slashing damage on a hit.




(Hat tip to Justin for the Aarakocra example)



Also, Jeremy Crawford has tweeted an affirmation of this answer.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    There is a sageadvice to this same question: sageadvice.eu/2018/06/06/…
    $endgroup$
    – Vylix
    23 hours ago
















15












$begingroup$

Yes, if the racial rule calls them weapons



As your other linked answer states, Unarmed Strikes do not work for Improved Divine Strike because the rules say Unarmed Strikes are not weapons:




Instead of using a weapon to make a melee weapon attack, you can use an unarmed strike: a punch, kick, head-butt, or similar forceful blow (none of which count as weapons).




But the racial ability for Minotaur horns specifically says the horns are a weapon:




Your horns are natural melee weapons




What is happening here is that there is a specific rule/allowance for the Minotaur that is similar to (but different from) a general prohibition.



The minotaur is not making an Unarmed Strike (a head-butt). It is making an attack with a weapon which happens to be located on its head.



Contrast this with the Aarakocra's Talons:




Talons



You are proficient with your unarmed strikes, which deal 1d4 slashing damage on a hit.




(Hat tip to Justin for the Aarakocra example)



Also, Jeremy Crawford has tweeted an affirmation of this answer.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    There is a sageadvice to this same question: sageadvice.eu/2018/06/06/…
    $endgroup$
    – Vylix
    23 hours ago














15












15








15





$begingroup$

Yes, if the racial rule calls them weapons



As your other linked answer states, Unarmed Strikes do not work for Improved Divine Strike because the rules say Unarmed Strikes are not weapons:




Instead of using a weapon to make a melee weapon attack, you can use an unarmed strike: a punch, kick, head-butt, or similar forceful blow (none of which count as weapons).




But the racial ability for Minotaur horns specifically says the horns are a weapon:




Your horns are natural melee weapons




What is happening here is that there is a specific rule/allowance for the Minotaur that is similar to (but different from) a general prohibition.



The minotaur is not making an Unarmed Strike (a head-butt). It is making an attack with a weapon which happens to be located on its head.



Contrast this with the Aarakocra's Talons:




Talons



You are proficient with your unarmed strikes, which deal 1d4 slashing damage on a hit.




(Hat tip to Justin for the Aarakocra example)



Also, Jeremy Crawford has tweeted an affirmation of this answer.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$



Yes, if the racial rule calls them weapons



As your other linked answer states, Unarmed Strikes do not work for Improved Divine Strike because the rules say Unarmed Strikes are not weapons:




Instead of using a weapon to make a melee weapon attack, you can use an unarmed strike: a punch, kick, head-butt, or similar forceful blow (none of which count as weapons).




But the racial ability for Minotaur horns specifically says the horns are a weapon:




Your horns are natural melee weapons




What is happening here is that there is a specific rule/allowance for the Minotaur that is similar to (but different from) a general prohibition.



The minotaur is not making an Unarmed Strike (a head-butt). It is making an attack with a weapon which happens to be located on its head.



Contrast this with the Aarakocra's Talons:




Talons



You are proficient with your unarmed strikes, which deal 1d4 slashing damage on a hit.




(Hat tip to Justin for the Aarakocra example)



Also, Jeremy Crawford has tweeted an affirmation of this answer.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 18 hours ago

























answered yesterday









RykaraRykara

3,511534




3,511534












  • $begingroup$
    There is a sageadvice to this same question: sageadvice.eu/2018/06/06/…
    $endgroup$
    – Vylix
    23 hours ago


















  • $begingroup$
    There is a sageadvice to this same question: sageadvice.eu/2018/06/06/…
    $endgroup$
    – Vylix
    23 hours ago
















$begingroup$
There is a sageadvice to this same question: sageadvice.eu/2018/06/06/…
$endgroup$
– Vylix
23 hours ago




$begingroup$
There is a sageadvice to this same question: sageadvice.eu/2018/06/06/…
$endgroup$
– Vylix
23 hours ago













9












$begingroup$

Yes, if it says they are weapons



The Minotaur race Horns racial feature says (emphasis mine):




Your horns are natural melee weapons, with which you’re
proficient. When you hit with them, the target takes piercing damage
equal to 1d6 + your Strength modifier.




Divine smite says:




By 11th level, whenever you hit a creature with a melee weapon, the creature takes

an extra 1d8 radiant damage.




So, in this case it is valid, as it says that your horns are weapons. However, this only applies to the Minotaur race. Racial attack abilities vary between races. For instance, the Aarakockra race's Talon racial feature says:




You are proficient with your unarmed strikes, which deal 1d4 slashing damage on a hit.




In this case, it does not say that the talons are weapons, and it therefore follows the 'it does not work' unarmed strikes path.



You can tell the difference between the racial attacks eligible for Improved Divine Smite, and those ineligible, as the valid ones say that it is a weapon, and the not valid ones don't.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    There is a sageadvice to this same question: sageadvice.eu/2018/06/06/…
    $endgroup$
    – Vylix
    23 hours ago
















9












$begingroup$

Yes, if it says they are weapons



The Minotaur race Horns racial feature says (emphasis mine):




Your horns are natural melee weapons, with which you’re
proficient. When you hit with them, the target takes piercing damage
equal to 1d6 + your Strength modifier.




Divine smite says:




By 11th level, whenever you hit a creature with a melee weapon, the creature takes

an extra 1d8 radiant damage.




So, in this case it is valid, as it says that your horns are weapons. However, this only applies to the Minotaur race. Racial attack abilities vary between races. For instance, the Aarakockra race's Talon racial feature says:




You are proficient with your unarmed strikes, which deal 1d4 slashing damage on a hit.




In this case, it does not say that the talons are weapons, and it therefore follows the 'it does not work' unarmed strikes path.



You can tell the difference between the racial attacks eligible for Improved Divine Smite, and those ineligible, as the valid ones say that it is a weapon, and the not valid ones don't.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    There is a sageadvice to this same question: sageadvice.eu/2018/06/06/…
    $endgroup$
    – Vylix
    23 hours ago














9












9








9





$begingroup$

Yes, if it says they are weapons



The Minotaur race Horns racial feature says (emphasis mine):




Your horns are natural melee weapons, with which you’re
proficient. When you hit with them, the target takes piercing damage
equal to 1d6 + your Strength modifier.




Divine smite says:




By 11th level, whenever you hit a creature with a melee weapon, the creature takes

an extra 1d8 radiant damage.




So, in this case it is valid, as it says that your horns are weapons. However, this only applies to the Minotaur race. Racial attack abilities vary between races. For instance, the Aarakockra race's Talon racial feature says:




You are proficient with your unarmed strikes, which deal 1d4 slashing damage on a hit.




In this case, it does not say that the talons are weapons, and it therefore follows the 'it does not work' unarmed strikes path.



You can tell the difference between the racial attacks eligible for Improved Divine Smite, and those ineligible, as the valid ones say that it is a weapon, and the not valid ones don't.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$



Yes, if it says they are weapons



The Minotaur race Horns racial feature says (emphasis mine):




Your horns are natural melee weapons, with which you’re
proficient. When you hit with them, the target takes piercing damage
equal to 1d6 + your Strength modifier.




Divine smite says:




By 11th level, whenever you hit a creature with a melee weapon, the creature takes

an extra 1d8 radiant damage.




So, in this case it is valid, as it says that your horns are weapons. However, this only applies to the Minotaur race. Racial attack abilities vary between races. For instance, the Aarakockra race's Talon racial feature says:




You are proficient with your unarmed strikes, which deal 1d4 slashing damage on a hit.




In this case, it does not say that the talons are weapons, and it therefore follows the 'it does not work' unarmed strikes path.



You can tell the difference between the racial attacks eligible for Improved Divine Smite, and those ineligible, as the valid ones say that it is a weapon, and the not valid ones don't.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited yesterday









Rykara

3,511534




3,511534










answered yesterday









JustinJustin

2,80211033




2,80211033












  • $begingroup$
    There is a sageadvice to this same question: sageadvice.eu/2018/06/06/…
    $endgroup$
    – Vylix
    23 hours ago


















  • $begingroup$
    There is a sageadvice to this same question: sageadvice.eu/2018/06/06/…
    $endgroup$
    – Vylix
    23 hours ago
















$begingroup$
There is a sageadvice to this same question: sageadvice.eu/2018/06/06/…
$endgroup$
– Vylix
23 hours ago




$begingroup$
There is a sageadvice to this same question: sageadvice.eu/2018/06/06/…
$endgroup$
– Vylix
23 hours ago


















draft saved

draft discarded




















































Thanks for contributing an answer to Role-playing Games Stack Exchange!


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid



  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f142688%2fdo-natural-melee-weapons-from-racial-traits-trigger-improved-divine-smite%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown





















































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown

































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown







Popular posts from this blog

How to label and detect the document text images

Vallis Paradisi

Tabula Rosettana