Error in TransformedField
$begingroup$
I am using TransformedField
to convert a system of ODEs from Cartesian to polar coordinates:
TransformedField[
"Cartesian" -> "Polar",
{μ x1 - x2 - σ x1 (x1^2 + x2^2), x1 + μ x2 - σ x2 (x1^2 + x2^2)},
{x1, x2} -> {r, θ}
] // Simplify
and I get the result
{r μ - r^3 σ, r}
but I am pretty sure that the right answer should be
{r μ - r^3 σ, 1}
Where is the error?
coordinate-transformation
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I am using TransformedField
to convert a system of ODEs from Cartesian to polar coordinates:
TransformedField[
"Cartesian" -> "Polar",
{μ x1 - x2 - σ x1 (x1^2 + x2^2), x1 + μ x2 - σ x2 (x1^2 + x2^2)},
{x1, x2} -> {r, θ}
] // Simplify
and I get the result
{r μ - r^3 σ, r}
but I am pretty sure that the right answer should be
{r μ - r^3 σ, 1}
Where is the error?
coordinate-transformation
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I am using TransformedField
to convert a system of ODEs from Cartesian to polar coordinates:
TransformedField[
"Cartesian" -> "Polar",
{μ x1 - x2 - σ x1 (x1^2 + x2^2), x1 + μ x2 - σ x2 (x1^2 + x2^2)},
{x1, x2} -> {r, θ}
] // Simplify
and I get the result
{r μ - r^3 σ, r}
but I am pretty sure that the right answer should be
{r μ - r^3 σ, 1}
Where is the error?
coordinate-transformation
$endgroup$
I am using TransformedField
to convert a system of ODEs from Cartesian to polar coordinates:
TransformedField[
"Cartesian" -> "Polar",
{μ x1 - x2 - σ x1 (x1^2 + x2^2), x1 + μ x2 - σ x2 (x1^2 + x2^2)},
{x1, x2} -> {r, θ}
] // Simplify
and I get the result
{r μ - r^3 σ, r}
but I am pretty sure that the right answer should be
{r μ - r^3 σ, 1}
Where is the error?
coordinate-transformation
coordinate-transformation
edited yesterday
MarcoB
37.2k556113
37.2k556113
asked yesterday
rparpa
976
976
add a comment |
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Mathematica's answer is correct and consistent with your expectations, but you are not accounting for the basis of the vector field.
TransformedField
transforms a vector field between two coordinate systems and bases. In this case, it is converting from $f(x,y)hat x+g(x,y)hat y$ to the same geometrical vector field expressed as $u(r,theta)hat r + v(r,theta) hat theta$. Mathematica's answer can therefore be interpreted as saying
$$left(μ x_1 - x_2 - σ x_1 (x_1^2 + x_2^2)right)hat x + left( x_1 + μ x_2 - σ x_2 (x_1^2 + x_2^2)right)hat y = left(r μ - r^3 σright)hat r + r hattheta$$
Notice that the expressions $r'$ and $theta'$ don't appear anyhwere. Those are dynamical quantities, not geometrical ones (unless working in the jet bundle, but let's not go there). Also notice the hats! As stated in the documentation, TransformedField
assumes inputs are in an orthonormal basis, and returns outputs in the same basis. That will be important for later on.
Now, you are dealing with a differential equation, and based on your expected answer I'll assume what you have is a first-order system and you are transforming the associated vector field (AKA the "right-hand side"). Finding solutions means find the integral curves of the vector field. This gives as a nice relationship between the geometrical variables and the dynamical ones, except that this relationship is of necessity expressed in the so called coordinate basis, written $(r',theta') = a frac{partial}{partial r} + b frac{partial}{partial theta}$. So to get the answer expressed in your desired basis, we need the relationship between the coordinate and orthonormal basis vectors. As is covered in books on vector calculus (and elsewhere), the relationsip is $hat r = frac{partial}{partial r}$ and $hat theta = frac{1}{r}frac{partial}{partial theta}$. Substituting this into the answer Mathematica gave above, we get
$$left(r μ - r^3 σright)hat r + r hattheta = left(r μ - r^3 σright) frac{partial}{partial r} + (1) frac{partial}{partial theta},$$
which is the answer you expected.
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Thank you! That makes sense. The documentation forTransformedField
does not provide sufficient detail about what the function is actually doing.
$endgroup$
– rpa
22 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
We can define our own functions.
From $x',y'$ to $r',theta'$, we derive:
$$
r' = left(sqrt{x^2 +y^2} right)'
= frac{(x^2 +y^2)'}{2
sqrt{x^2 +y^2}}=frac{xx' +yy'}{r}
$$
and
$$
theta' = left(arctan frac{y}{x} right)'
= frac{(y/x)'}{1+(y/x)^2} = frac{y' x -x' y}{r^2}.
$$
First, we define
rdot[x1_, x2_] := (x1 (μ x1 - x2 - σ x1 (x1^2 + x2^2)) + x2 (x1 + μ x2 - σ x2 (x1^2 + x2^2)))/r
We now make the substitution and simplify
rdot[r Cos[t], r Sin[t]] // FullSimplify
This yields (matches Mathematica)
$$r' = mu r-r^3 sigma$$
We now do the same for the other
thetadot[x1_,x2_]:=(x1 (x1+μ x2-σ x2 (x1^2+x2^2)) - x2(μ x1-x2-σ x1 (x1^2+x2^2)))/r^2
We now make the substitution and simplify
thetadot[r Cos[t], r Sin[t]] // FullSimplify
This yields (does not match Mathematica, but see accepted answer)
$$theta'= 1$$
I have asked this question before on this site in two different ways and have never gotten an answer that resolves the matter, but that could just be my denseness as the accepted answer now shows!
Update
I have received a response from Wolfram Support and wanted to post it as others may find it as helpful as I did.
Thank you for contacting Wolfram Technical Support.
I want to highlight a couple more pieces of information that you might find useful.
There is a more comprehensive tutorial on how Mathematica handles coordinate transformations, and particularly how it handles basis transformations for vectors, available at
https://reference.wolfram.com/language/tutorial/ChangingCoordinateSystems.html
Under the section "Relating Orthonormal Bases", the tutorial highlights that the transformation of vectors is given by an orthonormal rotation matrix. In particular, this guarantees that a vector will have the same norm in any coordinate system. So, the vector {0,1,0} in the {r, th, phi} coordinate system must have a norm 1 in the {x,y,z} coordinate system.
In the question you posted on StackExchange, the norm of the original vector is
r Sqrt[1 + ([Mu] - r^2 [Sigma])^2]
(after the change of variables from {x1,x2} to {r,theta} has been made).
This highlights that the proposed solution
{r ? - r^3 ?, 1}
cannot be correct, as it has a different norm. On the other hand,
{r ? - r^3 ?, r}
has the same norm.
Please let me know if you have any further questions.
Sincerely,
Wolfram Technology Group
http://www.wolfram.com/support/
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Have you reported it to the Wolfram tech support?
$endgroup$
– Alexey Popkov
yesterday
$begingroup$
@AlexeyPopkov: I have not. I have had many issues with it when transforming between different methods. These days, I don't trust it and just create my own transformation rules to do it.
$endgroup$
– Moo
yesterday
$begingroup$
It is worth to write them about it in order to get it finally fixed. You can even write a short letter to support@wolfram.com with a link to this post.
$endgroup$
– Alexey Popkov
yesterday
$begingroup$
@AlexeyPopkov: I sent them an email per your suggestion.
$endgroup$
– Moo
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
My slightly different method matches Mathematica.
aCartToCyl[{ax_, ay_}] := {ax Cos[ϕ] + ay Sin[ϕ], ay Cos[ϕ] - ax Sin[ϕ]}
aCartToCyl[{μ x1 - x2 - σ x1 (x1^2 + x2^2),
x1 + μ x2 - σ x2 (x1^2 + x2^2)}] // Simplify;
% /. {x1 -> r Cos[ϕ], x2 -> r Sin[ϕ]} // Simplify
(*{μ r - r^3 σ, r}*)
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Mathematica's answer is correct and consistent with your expectations, but you are not accounting for the basis of the vector field.
TransformedField
transforms a vector field between two coordinate systems and bases. In this case, it is converting from $f(x,y)hat x+g(x,y)hat y$ to the same geometrical vector field expressed as $u(r,theta)hat r + v(r,theta) hat theta$. Mathematica's answer can therefore be interpreted as saying
$$left(μ x_1 - x_2 - σ x_1 (x_1^2 + x_2^2)right)hat x + left( x_1 + μ x_2 - σ x_2 (x_1^2 + x_2^2)right)hat y = left(r μ - r^3 σright)hat r + r hattheta$$
Notice that the expressions $r'$ and $theta'$ don't appear anyhwere. Those are dynamical quantities, not geometrical ones (unless working in the jet bundle, but let's not go there). Also notice the hats! As stated in the documentation, TransformedField
assumes inputs are in an orthonormal basis, and returns outputs in the same basis. That will be important for later on.
Now, you are dealing with a differential equation, and based on your expected answer I'll assume what you have is a first-order system and you are transforming the associated vector field (AKA the "right-hand side"). Finding solutions means find the integral curves of the vector field. This gives as a nice relationship between the geometrical variables and the dynamical ones, except that this relationship is of necessity expressed in the so called coordinate basis, written $(r',theta') = a frac{partial}{partial r} + b frac{partial}{partial theta}$. So to get the answer expressed in your desired basis, we need the relationship between the coordinate and orthonormal basis vectors. As is covered in books on vector calculus (and elsewhere), the relationsip is $hat r = frac{partial}{partial r}$ and $hat theta = frac{1}{r}frac{partial}{partial theta}$. Substituting this into the answer Mathematica gave above, we get
$$left(r μ - r^3 σright)hat r + r hattheta = left(r μ - r^3 σright) frac{partial}{partial r} + (1) frac{partial}{partial theta},$$
which is the answer you expected.
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Thank you! That makes sense. The documentation forTransformedField
does not provide sufficient detail about what the function is actually doing.
$endgroup$
– rpa
22 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Mathematica's answer is correct and consistent with your expectations, but you are not accounting for the basis of the vector field.
TransformedField
transforms a vector field between two coordinate systems and bases. In this case, it is converting from $f(x,y)hat x+g(x,y)hat y$ to the same geometrical vector field expressed as $u(r,theta)hat r + v(r,theta) hat theta$. Mathematica's answer can therefore be interpreted as saying
$$left(μ x_1 - x_2 - σ x_1 (x_1^2 + x_2^2)right)hat x + left( x_1 + μ x_2 - σ x_2 (x_1^2 + x_2^2)right)hat y = left(r μ - r^3 σright)hat r + r hattheta$$
Notice that the expressions $r'$ and $theta'$ don't appear anyhwere. Those are dynamical quantities, not geometrical ones (unless working in the jet bundle, but let's not go there). Also notice the hats! As stated in the documentation, TransformedField
assumes inputs are in an orthonormal basis, and returns outputs in the same basis. That will be important for later on.
Now, you are dealing with a differential equation, and based on your expected answer I'll assume what you have is a first-order system and you are transforming the associated vector field (AKA the "right-hand side"). Finding solutions means find the integral curves of the vector field. This gives as a nice relationship between the geometrical variables and the dynamical ones, except that this relationship is of necessity expressed in the so called coordinate basis, written $(r',theta') = a frac{partial}{partial r} + b frac{partial}{partial theta}$. So to get the answer expressed in your desired basis, we need the relationship between the coordinate and orthonormal basis vectors. As is covered in books on vector calculus (and elsewhere), the relationsip is $hat r = frac{partial}{partial r}$ and $hat theta = frac{1}{r}frac{partial}{partial theta}$. Substituting this into the answer Mathematica gave above, we get
$$left(r μ - r^3 σright)hat r + r hattheta = left(r μ - r^3 σright) frac{partial}{partial r} + (1) frac{partial}{partial theta},$$
which is the answer you expected.
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Thank you! That makes sense. The documentation forTransformedField
does not provide sufficient detail about what the function is actually doing.
$endgroup$
– rpa
22 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Mathematica's answer is correct and consistent with your expectations, but you are not accounting for the basis of the vector field.
TransformedField
transforms a vector field between two coordinate systems and bases. In this case, it is converting from $f(x,y)hat x+g(x,y)hat y$ to the same geometrical vector field expressed as $u(r,theta)hat r + v(r,theta) hat theta$. Mathematica's answer can therefore be interpreted as saying
$$left(μ x_1 - x_2 - σ x_1 (x_1^2 + x_2^2)right)hat x + left( x_1 + μ x_2 - σ x_2 (x_1^2 + x_2^2)right)hat y = left(r μ - r^3 σright)hat r + r hattheta$$
Notice that the expressions $r'$ and $theta'$ don't appear anyhwere. Those are dynamical quantities, not geometrical ones (unless working in the jet bundle, but let's not go there). Also notice the hats! As stated in the documentation, TransformedField
assumes inputs are in an orthonormal basis, and returns outputs in the same basis. That will be important for later on.
Now, you are dealing with a differential equation, and based on your expected answer I'll assume what you have is a first-order system and you are transforming the associated vector field (AKA the "right-hand side"). Finding solutions means find the integral curves of the vector field. This gives as a nice relationship between the geometrical variables and the dynamical ones, except that this relationship is of necessity expressed in the so called coordinate basis, written $(r',theta') = a frac{partial}{partial r} + b frac{partial}{partial theta}$. So to get the answer expressed in your desired basis, we need the relationship between the coordinate and orthonormal basis vectors. As is covered in books on vector calculus (and elsewhere), the relationsip is $hat r = frac{partial}{partial r}$ and $hat theta = frac{1}{r}frac{partial}{partial theta}$. Substituting this into the answer Mathematica gave above, we get
$$left(r μ - r^3 σright)hat r + r hattheta = left(r μ - r^3 σright) frac{partial}{partial r} + (1) frac{partial}{partial theta},$$
which is the answer you expected.
$endgroup$
Mathematica's answer is correct and consistent with your expectations, but you are not accounting for the basis of the vector field.
TransformedField
transforms a vector field between two coordinate systems and bases. In this case, it is converting from $f(x,y)hat x+g(x,y)hat y$ to the same geometrical vector field expressed as $u(r,theta)hat r + v(r,theta) hat theta$. Mathematica's answer can therefore be interpreted as saying
$$left(μ x_1 - x_2 - σ x_1 (x_1^2 + x_2^2)right)hat x + left( x_1 + μ x_2 - σ x_2 (x_1^2 + x_2^2)right)hat y = left(r μ - r^3 σright)hat r + r hattheta$$
Notice that the expressions $r'$ and $theta'$ don't appear anyhwere. Those are dynamical quantities, not geometrical ones (unless working in the jet bundle, but let's not go there). Also notice the hats! As stated in the documentation, TransformedField
assumes inputs are in an orthonormal basis, and returns outputs in the same basis. That will be important for later on.
Now, you are dealing with a differential equation, and based on your expected answer I'll assume what you have is a first-order system and you are transforming the associated vector field (AKA the "right-hand side"). Finding solutions means find the integral curves of the vector field. This gives as a nice relationship between the geometrical variables and the dynamical ones, except that this relationship is of necessity expressed in the so called coordinate basis, written $(r',theta') = a frac{partial}{partial r} + b frac{partial}{partial theta}$. So to get the answer expressed in your desired basis, we need the relationship between the coordinate and orthonormal basis vectors. As is covered in books on vector calculus (and elsewhere), the relationsip is $hat r = frac{partial}{partial r}$ and $hat theta = frac{1}{r}frac{partial}{partial theta}$. Substituting this into the answer Mathematica gave above, we get
$$left(r μ - r^3 σright)hat r + r hattheta = left(r μ - r^3 σright) frac{partial}{partial r} + (1) frac{partial}{partial theta},$$
which is the answer you expected.
edited 7 hours ago
answered yesterday
Itai SeggevItai Seggev
9,7633964
9,7633964
2
$begingroup$
Thank you! That makes sense. The documentation forTransformedField
does not provide sufficient detail about what the function is actually doing.
$endgroup$
– rpa
22 hours ago
add a comment |
2
$begingroup$
Thank you! That makes sense. The documentation forTransformedField
does not provide sufficient detail about what the function is actually doing.
$endgroup$
– rpa
22 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
Thank you! That makes sense. The documentation for
TransformedField
does not provide sufficient detail about what the function is actually doing.$endgroup$
– rpa
22 hours ago
$begingroup$
Thank you! That makes sense. The documentation for
TransformedField
does not provide sufficient detail about what the function is actually doing.$endgroup$
– rpa
22 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
We can define our own functions.
From $x',y'$ to $r',theta'$, we derive:
$$
r' = left(sqrt{x^2 +y^2} right)'
= frac{(x^2 +y^2)'}{2
sqrt{x^2 +y^2}}=frac{xx' +yy'}{r}
$$
and
$$
theta' = left(arctan frac{y}{x} right)'
= frac{(y/x)'}{1+(y/x)^2} = frac{y' x -x' y}{r^2}.
$$
First, we define
rdot[x1_, x2_] := (x1 (μ x1 - x2 - σ x1 (x1^2 + x2^2)) + x2 (x1 + μ x2 - σ x2 (x1^2 + x2^2)))/r
We now make the substitution and simplify
rdot[r Cos[t], r Sin[t]] // FullSimplify
This yields (matches Mathematica)
$$r' = mu r-r^3 sigma$$
We now do the same for the other
thetadot[x1_,x2_]:=(x1 (x1+μ x2-σ x2 (x1^2+x2^2)) - x2(μ x1-x2-σ x1 (x1^2+x2^2)))/r^2
We now make the substitution and simplify
thetadot[r Cos[t], r Sin[t]] // FullSimplify
This yields (does not match Mathematica, but see accepted answer)
$$theta'= 1$$
I have asked this question before on this site in two different ways and have never gotten an answer that resolves the matter, but that could just be my denseness as the accepted answer now shows!
Update
I have received a response from Wolfram Support and wanted to post it as others may find it as helpful as I did.
Thank you for contacting Wolfram Technical Support.
I want to highlight a couple more pieces of information that you might find useful.
There is a more comprehensive tutorial on how Mathematica handles coordinate transformations, and particularly how it handles basis transformations for vectors, available at
https://reference.wolfram.com/language/tutorial/ChangingCoordinateSystems.html
Under the section "Relating Orthonormal Bases", the tutorial highlights that the transformation of vectors is given by an orthonormal rotation matrix. In particular, this guarantees that a vector will have the same norm in any coordinate system. So, the vector {0,1,0} in the {r, th, phi} coordinate system must have a norm 1 in the {x,y,z} coordinate system.
In the question you posted on StackExchange, the norm of the original vector is
r Sqrt[1 + ([Mu] - r^2 [Sigma])^2]
(after the change of variables from {x1,x2} to {r,theta} has been made).
This highlights that the proposed solution
{r ? - r^3 ?, 1}
cannot be correct, as it has a different norm. On the other hand,
{r ? - r^3 ?, r}
has the same norm.
Please let me know if you have any further questions.
Sincerely,
Wolfram Technology Group
http://www.wolfram.com/support/
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Have you reported it to the Wolfram tech support?
$endgroup$
– Alexey Popkov
yesterday
$begingroup$
@AlexeyPopkov: I have not. I have had many issues with it when transforming between different methods. These days, I don't trust it and just create my own transformation rules to do it.
$endgroup$
– Moo
yesterday
$begingroup$
It is worth to write them about it in order to get it finally fixed. You can even write a short letter to support@wolfram.com with a link to this post.
$endgroup$
– Alexey Popkov
yesterday
$begingroup$
@AlexeyPopkov: I sent them an email per your suggestion.
$endgroup$
– Moo
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
We can define our own functions.
From $x',y'$ to $r',theta'$, we derive:
$$
r' = left(sqrt{x^2 +y^2} right)'
= frac{(x^2 +y^2)'}{2
sqrt{x^2 +y^2}}=frac{xx' +yy'}{r}
$$
and
$$
theta' = left(arctan frac{y}{x} right)'
= frac{(y/x)'}{1+(y/x)^2} = frac{y' x -x' y}{r^2}.
$$
First, we define
rdot[x1_, x2_] := (x1 (μ x1 - x2 - σ x1 (x1^2 + x2^2)) + x2 (x1 + μ x2 - σ x2 (x1^2 + x2^2)))/r
We now make the substitution and simplify
rdot[r Cos[t], r Sin[t]] // FullSimplify
This yields (matches Mathematica)
$$r' = mu r-r^3 sigma$$
We now do the same for the other
thetadot[x1_,x2_]:=(x1 (x1+μ x2-σ x2 (x1^2+x2^2)) - x2(μ x1-x2-σ x1 (x1^2+x2^2)))/r^2
We now make the substitution and simplify
thetadot[r Cos[t], r Sin[t]] // FullSimplify
This yields (does not match Mathematica, but see accepted answer)
$$theta'= 1$$
I have asked this question before on this site in two different ways and have never gotten an answer that resolves the matter, but that could just be my denseness as the accepted answer now shows!
Update
I have received a response from Wolfram Support and wanted to post it as others may find it as helpful as I did.
Thank you for contacting Wolfram Technical Support.
I want to highlight a couple more pieces of information that you might find useful.
There is a more comprehensive tutorial on how Mathematica handles coordinate transformations, and particularly how it handles basis transformations for vectors, available at
https://reference.wolfram.com/language/tutorial/ChangingCoordinateSystems.html
Under the section "Relating Orthonormal Bases", the tutorial highlights that the transformation of vectors is given by an orthonormal rotation matrix. In particular, this guarantees that a vector will have the same norm in any coordinate system. So, the vector {0,1,0} in the {r, th, phi} coordinate system must have a norm 1 in the {x,y,z} coordinate system.
In the question you posted on StackExchange, the norm of the original vector is
r Sqrt[1 + ([Mu] - r^2 [Sigma])^2]
(after the change of variables from {x1,x2} to {r,theta} has been made).
This highlights that the proposed solution
{r ? - r^3 ?, 1}
cannot be correct, as it has a different norm. On the other hand,
{r ? - r^3 ?, r}
has the same norm.
Please let me know if you have any further questions.
Sincerely,
Wolfram Technology Group
http://www.wolfram.com/support/
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Have you reported it to the Wolfram tech support?
$endgroup$
– Alexey Popkov
yesterday
$begingroup$
@AlexeyPopkov: I have not. I have had many issues with it when transforming between different methods. These days, I don't trust it and just create my own transformation rules to do it.
$endgroup$
– Moo
yesterday
$begingroup$
It is worth to write them about it in order to get it finally fixed. You can even write a short letter to support@wolfram.com with a link to this post.
$endgroup$
– Alexey Popkov
yesterday
$begingroup$
@AlexeyPopkov: I sent them an email per your suggestion.
$endgroup$
– Moo
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
We can define our own functions.
From $x',y'$ to $r',theta'$, we derive:
$$
r' = left(sqrt{x^2 +y^2} right)'
= frac{(x^2 +y^2)'}{2
sqrt{x^2 +y^2}}=frac{xx' +yy'}{r}
$$
and
$$
theta' = left(arctan frac{y}{x} right)'
= frac{(y/x)'}{1+(y/x)^2} = frac{y' x -x' y}{r^2}.
$$
First, we define
rdot[x1_, x2_] := (x1 (μ x1 - x2 - σ x1 (x1^2 + x2^2)) + x2 (x1 + μ x2 - σ x2 (x1^2 + x2^2)))/r
We now make the substitution and simplify
rdot[r Cos[t], r Sin[t]] // FullSimplify
This yields (matches Mathematica)
$$r' = mu r-r^3 sigma$$
We now do the same for the other
thetadot[x1_,x2_]:=(x1 (x1+μ x2-σ x2 (x1^2+x2^2)) - x2(μ x1-x2-σ x1 (x1^2+x2^2)))/r^2
We now make the substitution and simplify
thetadot[r Cos[t], r Sin[t]] // FullSimplify
This yields (does not match Mathematica, but see accepted answer)
$$theta'= 1$$
I have asked this question before on this site in two different ways and have never gotten an answer that resolves the matter, but that could just be my denseness as the accepted answer now shows!
Update
I have received a response from Wolfram Support and wanted to post it as others may find it as helpful as I did.
Thank you for contacting Wolfram Technical Support.
I want to highlight a couple more pieces of information that you might find useful.
There is a more comprehensive tutorial on how Mathematica handles coordinate transformations, and particularly how it handles basis transformations for vectors, available at
https://reference.wolfram.com/language/tutorial/ChangingCoordinateSystems.html
Under the section "Relating Orthonormal Bases", the tutorial highlights that the transformation of vectors is given by an orthonormal rotation matrix. In particular, this guarantees that a vector will have the same norm in any coordinate system. So, the vector {0,1,0} in the {r, th, phi} coordinate system must have a norm 1 in the {x,y,z} coordinate system.
In the question you posted on StackExchange, the norm of the original vector is
r Sqrt[1 + ([Mu] - r^2 [Sigma])^2]
(after the change of variables from {x1,x2} to {r,theta} has been made).
This highlights that the proposed solution
{r ? - r^3 ?, 1}
cannot be correct, as it has a different norm. On the other hand,
{r ? - r^3 ?, r}
has the same norm.
Please let me know if you have any further questions.
Sincerely,
Wolfram Technology Group
http://www.wolfram.com/support/
$endgroup$
We can define our own functions.
From $x',y'$ to $r',theta'$, we derive:
$$
r' = left(sqrt{x^2 +y^2} right)'
= frac{(x^2 +y^2)'}{2
sqrt{x^2 +y^2}}=frac{xx' +yy'}{r}
$$
and
$$
theta' = left(arctan frac{y}{x} right)'
= frac{(y/x)'}{1+(y/x)^2} = frac{y' x -x' y}{r^2}.
$$
First, we define
rdot[x1_, x2_] := (x1 (μ x1 - x2 - σ x1 (x1^2 + x2^2)) + x2 (x1 + μ x2 - σ x2 (x1^2 + x2^2)))/r
We now make the substitution and simplify
rdot[r Cos[t], r Sin[t]] // FullSimplify
This yields (matches Mathematica)
$$r' = mu r-r^3 sigma$$
We now do the same for the other
thetadot[x1_,x2_]:=(x1 (x1+μ x2-σ x2 (x1^2+x2^2)) - x2(μ x1-x2-σ x1 (x1^2+x2^2)))/r^2
We now make the substitution and simplify
thetadot[r Cos[t], r Sin[t]] // FullSimplify
This yields (does not match Mathematica, but see accepted answer)
$$theta'= 1$$
I have asked this question before on this site in two different ways and have never gotten an answer that resolves the matter, but that could just be my denseness as the accepted answer now shows!
Update
I have received a response from Wolfram Support and wanted to post it as others may find it as helpful as I did.
Thank you for contacting Wolfram Technical Support.
I want to highlight a couple more pieces of information that you might find useful.
There is a more comprehensive tutorial on how Mathematica handles coordinate transformations, and particularly how it handles basis transformations for vectors, available at
https://reference.wolfram.com/language/tutorial/ChangingCoordinateSystems.html
Under the section "Relating Orthonormal Bases", the tutorial highlights that the transformation of vectors is given by an orthonormal rotation matrix. In particular, this guarantees that a vector will have the same norm in any coordinate system. So, the vector {0,1,0} in the {r, th, phi} coordinate system must have a norm 1 in the {x,y,z} coordinate system.
In the question you posted on StackExchange, the norm of the original vector is
r Sqrt[1 + ([Mu] - r^2 [Sigma])^2]
(after the change of variables from {x1,x2} to {r,theta} has been made).
This highlights that the proposed solution
{r ? - r^3 ?, 1}
cannot be correct, as it has a different norm. On the other hand,
{r ? - r^3 ?, r}
has the same norm.
Please let me know if you have any further questions.
Sincerely,
Wolfram Technology Group
http://www.wolfram.com/support/
edited 2 hours ago
answered yesterday
MooMoo
7711515
7711515
1
$begingroup$
Have you reported it to the Wolfram tech support?
$endgroup$
– Alexey Popkov
yesterday
$begingroup$
@AlexeyPopkov: I have not. I have had many issues with it when transforming between different methods. These days, I don't trust it and just create my own transformation rules to do it.
$endgroup$
– Moo
yesterday
$begingroup$
It is worth to write them about it in order to get it finally fixed. You can even write a short letter to support@wolfram.com with a link to this post.
$endgroup$
– Alexey Popkov
yesterday
$begingroup$
@AlexeyPopkov: I sent them an email per your suggestion.
$endgroup$
– Moo
yesterday
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
Have you reported it to the Wolfram tech support?
$endgroup$
– Alexey Popkov
yesterday
$begingroup$
@AlexeyPopkov: I have not. I have had many issues with it when transforming between different methods. These days, I don't trust it and just create my own transformation rules to do it.
$endgroup$
– Moo
yesterday
$begingroup$
It is worth to write them about it in order to get it finally fixed. You can even write a short letter to support@wolfram.com with a link to this post.
$endgroup$
– Alexey Popkov
yesterday
$begingroup$
@AlexeyPopkov: I sent them an email per your suggestion.
$endgroup$
– Moo
yesterday
1
1
$begingroup$
Have you reported it to the Wolfram tech support?
$endgroup$
– Alexey Popkov
yesterday
$begingroup$
Have you reported it to the Wolfram tech support?
$endgroup$
– Alexey Popkov
yesterday
$begingroup$
@AlexeyPopkov: I have not. I have had many issues with it when transforming between different methods. These days, I don't trust it and just create my own transformation rules to do it.
$endgroup$
– Moo
yesterday
$begingroup$
@AlexeyPopkov: I have not. I have had many issues with it when transforming between different methods. These days, I don't trust it and just create my own transformation rules to do it.
$endgroup$
– Moo
yesterday
$begingroup$
It is worth to write them about it in order to get it finally fixed. You can even write a short letter to support@wolfram.com with a link to this post.
$endgroup$
– Alexey Popkov
yesterday
$begingroup$
It is worth to write them about it in order to get it finally fixed. You can even write a short letter to support@wolfram.com with a link to this post.
$endgroup$
– Alexey Popkov
yesterday
$begingroup$
@AlexeyPopkov: I sent them an email per your suggestion.
$endgroup$
– Moo
yesterday
$begingroup$
@AlexeyPopkov: I sent them an email per your suggestion.
$endgroup$
– Moo
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
My slightly different method matches Mathematica.
aCartToCyl[{ax_, ay_}] := {ax Cos[ϕ] + ay Sin[ϕ], ay Cos[ϕ] - ax Sin[ϕ]}
aCartToCyl[{μ x1 - x2 - σ x1 (x1^2 + x2^2),
x1 + μ x2 - σ x2 (x1^2 + x2^2)}] // Simplify;
% /. {x1 -> r Cos[ϕ], x2 -> r Sin[ϕ]} // Simplify
(*{μ r - r^3 σ, r}*)
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
My slightly different method matches Mathematica.
aCartToCyl[{ax_, ay_}] := {ax Cos[ϕ] + ay Sin[ϕ], ay Cos[ϕ] - ax Sin[ϕ]}
aCartToCyl[{μ x1 - x2 - σ x1 (x1^2 + x2^2),
x1 + μ x2 - σ x2 (x1^2 + x2^2)}] // Simplify;
% /. {x1 -> r Cos[ϕ], x2 -> r Sin[ϕ]} // Simplify
(*{μ r - r^3 σ, r}*)
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
My slightly different method matches Mathematica.
aCartToCyl[{ax_, ay_}] := {ax Cos[ϕ] + ay Sin[ϕ], ay Cos[ϕ] - ax Sin[ϕ]}
aCartToCyl[{μ x1 - x2 - σ x1 (x1^2 + x2^2),
x1 + μ x2 - σ x2 (x1^2 + x2^2)}] // Simplify;
% /. {x1 -> r Cos[ϕ], x2 -> r Sin[ϕ]} // Simplify
(*{μ r - r^3 σ, r}*)
$endgroup$
My slightly different method matches Mathematica.
aCartToCyl[{ax_, ay_}] := {ax Cos[ϕ] + ay Sin[ϕ], ay Cos[ϕ] - ax Sin[ϕ]}
aCartToCyl[{μ x1 - x2 - σ x1 (x1^2 + x2^2),
x1 + μ x2 - σ x2 (x1^2 + x2^2)}] // Simplify;
% /. {x1 -> r Cos[ϕ], x2 -> r Sin[ϕ]} // Simplify
(*{μ r - r^3 σ, r}*)
edited 2 hours ago
answered 18 hours ago
Bill WattsBill Watts
3,4511620
3,4511620
add a comment |
add a comment |
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