Can unconscious characters be unwilling?
$begingroup$
Some spells like enlarge/reduce and polymorph specify that only an unwilling creature makes a saving throw:
If the target is unwilling, it can make a Constitution saving throw.
and
An unwilling creature must make a Wisdom saving throw to avoid the effect.
... but is an unconscious character able to make this judgment (and therefore be eligible to a saving throw)?
Mind you, I've seen this related question on opting in to certain spells, but I'm specifically asking about opting out so as to be eligible for the saving throws.
dnd-5e spells saving-throw unconscious
asked 5 hours ago
David CoffronDavid Coffron
37.6k3129263
$endgroup$
|
show 5 more comments
$begingroup$
Some spells like enlarge/reduce and polymorph specify that only an unwilling creature makes a saving throw:
If the target is unwilling, it can make a Constitution saving throw.
and
An unwilling creature must make a Wisdom saving throw to avoid the effect.
... but is an unconscious character able to make this judgment (and therefore be eligible to a saving throw)?
Mind you, I've seen this related question on opting in to certain spells, but I'm specifically asking about opting out so as to be eligible for the saving throws.
dnd-5e spells saving-throw unconscious
asked 5 hours ago
David CoffronDavid Coffron
37.6k3129263
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
The referenced question's marked answer didn't satisfy you in what way?
$endgroup$
– Tyler Gubala
5 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@NautArch The default position is neither unwilling nor willing. Selecting either is its own choice. It is not overwhelmingly clear that being (un)able to choose one is equivalent to being (un)able to choose another
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
5 hours ago
6
$begingroup$
I'm not sure this is a duplicate because after reading the other question I can get 2 answers for this one 1: "An unconscious character can't make the decision to be willing so an unconscious character can't make the decision to be unwilling either". or 2: "An unconscious character can't be willing so that must mean that it is always unwilling". By the definition of a duplicate the answer should be obvious
$endgroup$
– Sdjz
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Possible duplicate of Can you make an unwilling creature willing? In other words, what defines “willing”?
$endgroup$
– illustro
5 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@illustro I care in no way about willing. "Unwilling" is a completely different term. They are not a direct dichotomy and proving something about willingness says nothing about unwillingness.
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
5 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
$begingroup$
Some spells like enlarge/reduce and polymorph specify that only an unwilling creature makes a saving throw:
If the target is unwilling, it can make a Constitution saving throw.
and
An unwilling creature must make a Wisdom saving throw to avoid the effect.
... but is an unconscious character able to make this judgment (and therefore be eligible to a saving throw)?
Mind you, I've seen this related question on opting in to certain spells, but I'm specifically asking about opting out so as to be eligible for the saving throws.
dnd-5e spells saving-throw unconscious
asked 5 hours ago
David CoffronDavid Coffron
37.6k3129263
$endgroup$
Some spells like enlarge/reduce and polymorph specify that only an unwilling creature makes a saving throw:
If the target is unwilling, it can make a Constitution saving throw.
and
An unwilling creature must make a Wisdom saving throw to avoid the effect.
... but is an unconscious character able to make this judgment (and therefore be eligible to a saving throw)?
Mind you, I've seen this related question on opting in to certain spells, but I'm specifically asking about opting out so as to be eligible for the saving throws.
dnd-5e spells saving-throw unconscious
dnd-5e spells saving-throw unconscious
asked 5 hours ago
David CoffronDavid Coffron
37.6k3129263
asked 5 hours ago
David CoffronDavid Coffron
37.6k3129263
asked 5 hours ago
David CoffronDavid Coffron
37.6k3129263
asked 5 hours ago
David CoffronDavid Coffron
37.6k3129263
asked 5 hours ago
David CoffronDavid Coffron
37.6k3129263
37.6k3129263
$begingroup$
The referenced question's marked answer didn't satisfy you in what way?
$endgroup$
– Tyler Gubala
5 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@NautArch The default position is neither unwilling nor willing. Selecting either is its own choice. It is not overwhelmingly clear that being (un)able to choose one is equivalent to being (un)able to choose another
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
5 hours ago
6
$begingroup$
I'm not sure this is a duplicate because after reading the other question I can get 2 answers for this one 1: "An unconscious character can't make the decision to be willing so an unconscious character can't make the decision to be unwilling either". or 2: "An unconscious character can't be willing so that must mean that it is always unwilling". By the definition of a duplicate the answer should be obvious
$endgroup$
– Sdjz
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Possible duplicate of Can you make an unwilling creature willing? In other words, what defines “willing”?
$endgroup$
– illustro
5 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@illustro I care in no way about willing. "Unwilling" is a completely different term. They are not a direct dichotomy and proving something about willingness says nothing about unwillingness.
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
5 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
$begingroup$
The referenced question's marked answer didn't satisfy you in what way?
$endgroup$
– Tyler Gubala
5 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@NautArch The default position is neither unwilling nor willing. Selecting either is its own choice. It is not overwhelmingly clear that being (un)able to choose one is equivalent to being (un)able to choose another
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
5 hours ago
6
$begingroup$
I'm not sure this is a duplicate because after reading the other question I can get 2 answers for this one 1: "An unconscious character can't make the decision to be willing so an unconscious character can't make the decision to be unwilling either". or 2: "An unconscious character can't be willing so that must mean that it is always unwilling". By the definition of a duplicate the answer should be obvious
$endgroup$
– Sdjz
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Possible duplicate of Can you make an unwilling creature willing? In other words, what defines “willing”?
$endgroup$
– illustro
5 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@illustro I care in no way about willing. "Unwilling" is a completely different term. They are not a direct dichotomy and proving something about willingness says nothing about unwillingness.
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
The referenced question's marked answer didn't satisfy you in what way?
$endgroup$
– Tyler Gubala
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
The referenced question's marked answer didn't satisfy you in what way?
$endgroup$
– Tyler Gubala
5 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@NautArch The default position is neither unwilling nor willing. Selecting either is its own choice. It is not overwhelmingly clear that being (un)able to choose one is equivalent to being (un)able to choose another
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch The default position is neither unwilling nor willing. Selecting either is its own choice. It is not overwhelmingly clear that being (un)able to choose one is equivalent to being (un)able to choose another
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
5 hours ago
6
6
$begingroup$
I'm not sure this is a duplicate because after reading the other question I can get 2 answers for this one 1: "An unconscious character can't make the decision to be willing so an unconscious character can't make the decision to be unwilling either". or 2: "An unconscious character can't be willing so that must mean that it is always unwilling". By the definition of a duplicate the answer should be obvious
$endgroup$
– Sdjz
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'm not sure this is a duplicate because after reading the other question I can get 2 answers for this one 1: "An unconscious character can't make the decision to be willing so an unconscious character can't make the decision to be unwilling either". or 2: "An unconscious character can't be willing so that must mean that it is always unwilling". By the definition of a duplicate the answer should be obvious
$endgroup$
– Sdjz
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Possible duplicate of Can you make an unwilling creature willing? In other words, what defines “willing”?
$endgroup$
– illustro
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Possible duplicate of Can you make an unwilling creature willing? In other words, what defines “willing”?
$endgroup$
– illustro
5 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
@illustro I care in no way about willing. "Unwilling" is a completely different term. They are not a direct dichotomy and proving something about willingness says nothing about unwillingness.
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@illustro I care in no way about willing. "Unwilling" is a completely different term. They are not a direct dichotomy and proving something about willingness says nothing about unwillingness.
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
5 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
It is up to the DM
"Willing" and "unwilling" are not game terms and are not defined anywhere in the rules and thus we are stuck with generic definitions.
Unwilling:
- not willing; reluctant; loath; averse:
- opposed; offering resistance; stubborn or obstinate; refractory:
"Willing" at least is pretty clearly a choice, you are mentally choosing to consent to something. "Unwilling" is much less clear.
Unwilling has at least two opposed ways to interpret it
As per the above definition, "unwilling" can mean, in broad strokes, "the absence of willingness" (thus an unconscious person would be by default unwilling) or it can mean "opposed" (which requires a conscious decision and thus an unconscious creature would not be considered unwilling).
Depending on what definition you are using either you must choose to be (un)willing and not choosing either means you are neither or you are always one or the other. Both are valid definitions.
DM decides ambiguities
The term is ambiguous, in other words, and the person who decides that at your table will be the DM. There is simply no way to magic away the ambiguity of the English language in this case.
At my table
For what it is worth, in my games, I treat all characters as being unwilling unless they are explicitly willing and have had no issues, confusion, or complaints.
answered 5 hours ago
RubiksmooseRubiksmoose
58.4k10284433
$endgroup$
4
$begingroup$
I'd agree with your interpretation/ruling. Anyone that's not actually willing is unwilling.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Just my $0.02, but while I see "unwilling" as the opposite of "willing", I think both words require consciousness. To be "unwilling" is to apply one's will to rejecting something. So it's not the logical negation of "willing".
One doesn't describe a sleeping person as 'unwilling'.
answered 1 hour ago
Mr. GuestMr. Guest
1
New contributor
Mr. Guest is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
"One doesn't describe a sleeping person as 'unwilling'." I'd strongly disagree: this ties your statement in my mind to consenting, and I would describe a sleeping person as inherently unconsenting. If that is not your intent, I'd encourage you to edit and clarify, as I expect the connection will drive a lot of negativity.
$endgroup$
– TemporalWolf
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. And I totally agree with TemporalWolf's comment.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
44 mins ago
$begingroup$
@TemporalWolf if we will use "unwilling" in the "actively opposed" sense, as Mr Guest is using it, then this has nothing to do with consent or lack of thereof. Consent and willingness are not perfect synonyms. Unconsenting always means lack of consent. Unwilling has two meanings actively used in language.
$endgroup$
– Mołot
25 mins ago
$begingroup$
@Mołot that's why I urged the OP to edit and clarify: I don't think he's wrong that unwilling has two potential meanings, it's just the specific example he used, at least for me, leads to a very negative connection.
$endgroup$
– TemporalWolf
18 mins ago
add a comment |
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
It is up to the DM
"Willing" and "unwilling" are not game terms and are not defined anywhere in the rules and thus we are stuck with generic definitions.
Unwilling:
- not willing; reluctant; loath; averse:
- opposed; offering resistance; stubborn or obstinate; refractory:
"Willing" at least is pretty clearly a choice, you are mentally choosing to consent to something. "Unwilling" is much less clear.
Unwilling has at least two opposed ways to interpret it
As per the above definition, "unwilling" can mean, in broad strokes, "the absence of willingness" (thus an unconscious person would be by default unwilling) or it can mean "opposed" (which requires a conscious decision and thus an unconscious creature would not be considered unwilling).
Depending on what definition you are using either you must choose to be (un)willing and not choosing either means you are neither or you are always one or the other. Both are valid definitions.
DM decides ambiguities
The term is ambiguous, in other words, and the person who decides that at your table will be the DM. There is simply no way to magic away the ambiguity of the English language in this case.
At my table
For what it is worth, in my games, I treat all characters as being unwilling unless they are explicitly willing and have had no issues, confusion, or complaints.
answered 5 hours ago
RubiksmooseRubiksmoose
58.4k10284433
$endgroup$
4
$begingroup$
I'd agree with your interpretation/ruling. Anyone that's not actually willing is unwilling.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It is up to the DM
"Willing" and "unwilling" are not game terms and are not defined anywhere in the rules and thus we are stuck with generic definitions.
Unwilling:
- not willing; reluctant; loath; averse:
- opposed; offering resistance; stubborn or obstinate; refractory:
"Willing" at least is pretty clearly a choice, you are mentally choosing to consent to something. "Unwilling" is much less clear.
Unwilling has at least two opposed ways to interpret it
As per the above definition, "unwilling" can mean, in broad strokes, "the absence of willingness" (thus an unconscious person would be by default unwilling) or it can mean "opposed" (which requires a conscious decision and thus an unconscious creature would not be considered unwilling).
Depending on what definition you are using either you must choose to be (un)willing and not choosing either means you are neither or you are always one or the other. Both are valid definitions.
DM decides ambiguities
The term is ambiguous, in other words, and the person who decides that at your table will be the DM. There is simply no way to magic away the ambiguity of the English language in this case.
At my table
For what it is worth, in my games, I treat all characters as being unwilling unless they are explicitly willing and have had no issues, confusion, or complaints.
answered 5 hours ago
RubiksmooseRubiksmoose
58.4k10284433
$endgroup$
4
$begingroup$
I'd agree with your interpretation/ruling. Anyone that's not actually willing is unwilling.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It is up to the DM
"Willing" and "unwilling" are not game terms and are not defined anywhere in the rules and thus we are stuck with generic definitions.
Unwilling:
- not willing; reluctant; loath; averse:
- opposed; offering resistance; stubborn or obstinate; refractory:
"Willing" at least is pretty clearly a choice, you are mentally choosing to consent to something. "Unwilling" is much less clear.
Unwilling has at least two opposed ways to interpret it
As per the above definition, "unwilling" can mean, in broad strokes, "the absence of willingness" (thus an unconscious person would be by default unwilling) or it can mean "opposed" (which requires a conscious decision and thus an unconscious creature would not be considered unwilling).
Depending on what definition you are using either you must choose to be (un)willing and not choosing either means you are neither or you are always one or the other. Both are valid definitions.
DM decides ambiguities
The term is ambiguous, in other words, and the person who decides that at your table will be the DM. There is simply no way to magic away the ambiguity of the English language in this case.
At my table
For what it is worth, in my games, I treat all characters as being unwilling unless they are explicitly willing and have had no issues, confusion, or complaints.
answered 5 hours ago
RubiksmooseRubiksmoose
58.4k10284433
$endgroup$
It is up to the DM
"Willing" and "unwilling" are not game terms and are not defined anywhere in the rules and thus we are stuck with generic definitions.
Unwilling:
- not willing; reluctant; loath; averse:
- opposed; offering resistance; stubborn or obstinate; refractory:
"Willing" at least is pretty clearly a choice, you are mentally choosing to consent to something. "Unwilling" is much less clear.
Unwilling has at least two opposed ways to interpret it
As per the above definition, "unwilling" can mean, in broad strokes, "the absence of willingness" (thus an unconscious person would be by default unwilling) or it can mean "opposed" (which requires a conscious decision and thus an unconscious creature would not be considered unwilling).
Depending on what definition you are using either you must choose to be (un)willing and not choosing either means you are neither or you are always one or the other. Both are valid definitions.
DM decides ambiguities
The term is ambiguous, in other words, and the person who decides that at your table will be the DM. There is simply no way to magic away the ambiguity of the English language in this case.
At my table
For what it is worth, in my games, I treat all characters as being unwilling unless they are explicitly willing and have had no issues, confusion, or complaints.
answered 5 hours ago
RubiksmooseRubiksmoose
58.4k10284433
edited 4 hours ago
answered 5 hours ago
RubiksmooseRubiksmoose
58.4k10284433
answered 5 hours ago
RubiksmooseRubiksmoose
58.4k10284433
answered 5 hours ago
RubiksmooseRubiksmoose
58.4k10284433
58.4k10284433
4
$begingroup$
I'd agree with your interpretation/ruling. Anyone that's not actually willing is unwilling.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
2 hours ago
add a comment |
4
$begingroup$
I'd agree with your interpretation/ruling. Anyone that's not actually willing is unwilling.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
2 hours ago
4
4
$begingroup$
I'd agree with your interpretation/ruling. Anyone that's not actually willing is unwilling.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'd agree with your interpretation/ruling. Anyone that's not actually willing is unwilling.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Just my $0.02, but while I see "unwilling" as the opposite of "willing", I think both words require consciousness. To be "unwilling" is to apply one's will to rejecting something. So it's not the logical negation of "willing".
One doesn't describe a sleeping person as 'unwilling'.
answered 1 hour ago
Mr. GuestMr. Guest
1
New contributor
Mr. Guest is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
"One doesn't describe a sleeping person as 'unwilling'." I'd strongly disagree: this ties your statement in my mind to consenting, and I would describe a sleeping person as inherently unconsenting. If that is not your intent, I'd encourage you to edit and clarify, as I expect the connection will drive a lot of negativity.
$endgroup$
– TemporalWolf
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. And I totally agree with TemporalWolf's comment.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
44 mins ago
$begingroup$
@TemporalWolf if we will use "unwilling" in the "actively opposed" sense, as Mr Guest is using it, then this has nothing to do with consent or lack of thereof. Consent and willingness are not perfect synonyms. Unconsenting always means lack of consent. Unwilling has two meanings actively used in language.
$endgroup$
– Mołot
25 mins ago
$begingroup$
@Mołot that's why I urged the OP to edit and clarify: I don't think he's wrong that unwilling has two potential meanings, it's just the specific example he used, at least for me, leads to a very negative connection.
$endgroup$
– TemporalWolf
18 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Just my $0.02, but while I see "unwilling" as the opposite of "willing", I think both words require consciousness. To be "unwilling" is to apply one's will to rejecting something. So it's not the logical negation of "willing".
One doesn't describe a sleeping person as 'unwilling'.
answered 1 hour ago
Mr. GuestMr. Guest
1
New contributor
Mr. Guest is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
"One doesn't describe a sleeping person as 'unwilling'." I'd strongly disagree: this ties your statement in my mind to consenting, and I would describe a sleeping person as inherently unconsenting. If that is not your intent, I'd encourage you to edit and clarify, as I expect the connection will drive a lot of negativity.
$endgroup$
– TemporalWolf
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. And I totally agree with TemporalWolf's comment.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
44 mins ago
$begingroup$
@TemporalWolf if we will use "unwilling" in the "actively opposed" sense, as Mr Guest is using it, then this has nothing to do with consent or lack of thereof. Consent and willingness are not perfect synonyms. Unconsenting always means lack of consent. Unwilling has two meanings actively used in language.
$endgroup$
– Mołot
25 mins ago
$begingroup$
@Mołot that's why I urged the OP to edit and clarify: I don't think he's wrong that unwilling has two potential meanings, it's just the specific example he used, at least for me, leads to a very negative connection.
$endgroup$
– TemporalWolf
18 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Just my $0.02, but while I see "unwilling" as the opposite of "willing", I think both words require consciousness. To be "unwilling" is to apply one's will to rejecting something. So it's not the logical negation of "willing".
One doesn't describe a sleeping person as 'unwilling'.
answered 1 hour ago
Mr. GuestMr. Guest
1
New contributor
Mr. Guest is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
Just my $0.02, but while I see "unwilling" as the opposite of "willing", I think both words require consciousness. To be "unwilling" is to apply one's will to rejecting something. So it's not the logical negation of "willing".
One doesn't describe a sleeping person as 'unwilling'.
answered 1 hour ago
Mr. GuestMr. Guest
1
New contributor
Mr. Guest is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 1 hour ago
Mr. GuestMr. Guest
1
New contributor
Mr. Guest is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 1 hour ago
Mr. GuestMr. Guest
1
answered 1 hour ago
Mr. GuestMr. Guest
1
1
New contributor
Mr. Guest is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Mr. Guest is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Mr. Guest is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
2
$begingroup$
"One doesn't describe a sleeping person as 'unwilling'." I'd strongly disagree: this ties your statement in my mind to consenting, and I would describe a sleeping person as inherently unconsenting. If that is not your intent, I'd encourage you to edit and clarify, as I expect the connection will drive a lot of negativity.
$endgroup$
– TemporalWolf
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. And I totally agree with TemporalWolf's comment.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
44 mins ago
$begingroup$
@TemporalWolf if we will use "unwilling" in the "actively opposed" sense, as Mr Guest is using it, then this has nothing to do with consent or lack of thereof. Consent and willingness are not perfect synonyms. Unconsenting always means lack of consent. Unwilling has two meanings actively used in language.
$endgroup$
– Mołot
25 mins ago
$begingroup$
@Mołot that's why I urged the OP to edit and clarify: I don't think he's wrong that unwilling has two potential meanings, it's just the specific example he used, at least for me, leads to a very negative connection.
$endgroup$
– TemporalWolf
18 mins ago
add a comment |
2
$begingroup$
"One doesn't describe a sleeping person as 'unwilling'." I'd strongly disagree: this ties your statement in my mind to consenting, and I would describe a sleeping person as inherently unconsenting. If that is not your intent, I'd encourage you to edit and clarify, as I expect the connection will drive a lot of negativity.
$endgroup$
– TemporalWolf
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. And I totally agree with TemporalWolf's comment.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
44 mins ago
$begingroup$
@TemporalWolf if we will use "unwilling" in the "actively opposed" sense, as Mr Guest is using it, then this has nothing to do with consent or lack of thereof. Consent and willingness are not perfect synonyms. Unconsenting always means lack of consent. Unwilling has two meanings actively used in language.
$endgroup$
– Mołot
25 mins ago
$begingroup$
@Mołot that's why I urged the OP to edit and clarify: I don't think he's wrong that unwilling has two potential meanings, it's just the specific example he used, at least for me, leads to a very negative connection.
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– TemporalWolf
18 mins ago
2
2
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"One doesn't describe a sleeping person as 'unwilling'." I'd strongly disagree: this ties your statement in my mind to consenting, and I would describe a sleeping person as inherently unconsenting. If that is not your intent, I'd encourage you to edit and clarify, as I expect the connection will drive a lot of negativity.
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– TemporalWolf
1 hour ago
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"One doesn't describe a sleeping person as 'unwilling'." I'd strongly disagree: this ties your statement in my mind to consenting, and I would describe a sleeping person as inherently unconsenting. If that is not your intent, I'd encourage you to edit and clarify, as I expect the connection will drive a lot of negativity.
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– TemporalWolf
1 hour ago
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Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. And I totally agree with TemporalWolf's comment.
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– V2Blast
44 mins ago
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Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. And I totally agree with TemporalWolf's comment.
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– V2Blast
44 mins ago
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@TemporalWolf if we will use "unwilling" in the "actively opposed" sense, as Mr Guest is using it, then this has nothing to do with consent or lack of thereof. Consent and willingness are not perfect synonyms. Unconsenting always means lack of consent. Unwilling has two meanings actively used in language.
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– Mołot
25 mins ago
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@TemporalWolf if we will use "unwilling" in the "actively opposed" sense, as Mr Guest is using it, then this has nothing to do with consent or lack of thereof. Consent and willingness are not perfect synonyms. Unconsenting always means lack of consent. Unwilling has two meanings actively used in language.
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– Mołot
25 mins ago
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@Mołot that's why I urged the OP to edit and clarify: I don't think he's wrong that unwilling has two potential meanings, it's just the specific example he used, at least for me, leads to a very negative connection.
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– TemporalWolf
18 mins ago
$begingroup$
@Mołot that's why I urged the OP to edit and clarify: I don't think he's wrong that unwilling has two potential meanings, it's just the specific example he used, at least for me, leads to a very negative connection.
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– TemporalWolf
18 mins ago
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$begingroup$
The referenced question's marked answer didn't satisfy you in what way?
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– Tyler Gubala
5 hours ago
1
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@NautArch The default position is neither unwilling nor willing. Selecting either is its own choice. It is not overwhelmingly clear that being (un)able to choose one is equivalent to being (un)able to choose another
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– David Coffron
5 hours ago
6
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I'm not sure this is a duplicate because after reading the other question I can get 2 answers for this one 1: "An unconscious character can't make the decision to be willing so an unconscious character can't make the decision to be unwilling either". or 2: "An unconscious character can't be willing so that must mean that it is always unwilling". By the definition of a duplicate the answer should be obvious
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– Sdjz
5 hours ago
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Possible duplicate of Can you make an unwilling creature willing? In other words, what defines “willing”?
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– illustro
5 hours ago
2
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@illustro I care in no way about willing. "Unwilling" is a completely different term. They are not a direct dichotomy and proving something about willingness says nothing about unwillingness.
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– David Coffron
5 hours ago