Caruana vs Carlsen game 10 (WCC) why not 18…Nxb6?












2















In game 10 of the Caruana-Carlsen WCC, why did Carlsen (black) not take the terribly annoying and strong dark squared bishop on b6 on move 18 when given the chance? Instead, Carlsen moved the queen with Qe8.



The position is shown in the following diagram:



 [title "Caruana vs Carlsen, game 10, why not 18...Nxb6 instead of 18...Qe8"]
[fen "r1bq1rk1/1p1nb1pp/1B1p4/P2Pp3/2N2p2/8/2P1BPPP/R2Q1RK1 b - - 0 1"]









share|improve this question























  • What makes you think the Bishop "terribly annoying and strong"? It has hardly any squares!

    – Ywapom
    6 hours ago











  • @Ywapom admittedly that was a bit of an overstatement, I just mean the bishop's doing quite a good job at pinning down dark squares on the queenside without being under any threat and is ready to move to c7 coordinating with the knight to target black's most important weak pawn (backbone of e5-f4). Which all in all makes it into a decent minor piece at least compared to black bishop on e7.

    – user929304
    3 hours ago
















2















In game 10 of the Caruana-Carlsen WCC, why did Carlsen (black) not take the terribly annoying and strong dark squared bishop on b6 on move 18 when given the chance? Instead, Carlsen moved the queen with Qe8.



The position is shown in the following diagram:



 [title "Caruana vs Carlsen, game 10, why not 18...Nxb6 instead of 18...Qe8"]
[fen "r1bq1rk1/1p1nb1pp/1B1p4/P2Pp3/2N2p2/8/2P1BPPP/R2Q1RK1 b - - 0 1"]









share|improve this question























  • What makes you think the Bishop "terribly annoying and strong"? It has hardly any squares!

    – Ywapom
    6 hours ago











  • @Ywapom admittedly that was a bit of an overstatement, I just mean the bishop's doing quite a good job at pinning down dark squares on the queenside without being under any threat and is ready to move to c7 coordinating with the knight to target black's most important weak pawn (backbone of e5-f4). Which all in all makes it into a decent minor piece at least compared to black bishop on e7.

    – user929304
    3 hours ago














2












2








2


1






In game 10 of the Caruana-Carlsen WCC, why did Carlsen (black) not take the terribly annoying and strong dark squared bishop on b6 on move 18 when given the chance? Instead, Carlsen moved the queen with Qe8.



The position is shown in the following diagram:



 [title "Caruana vs Carlsen, game 10, why not 18...Nxb6 instead of 18...Qe8"]
[fen "r1bq1rk1/1p1nb1pp/1B1p4/P2Pp3/2N2p2/8/2P1BPPP/R2Q1RK1 b - - 0 1"]









share|improve this question














In game 10 of the Caruana-Carlsen WCC, why did Carlsen (black) not take the terribly annoying and strong dark squared bishop on b6 on move 18 when given the chance? Instead, Carlsen moved the queen with Qe8.



The position is shown in the following diagram:



 [title "Caruana vs Carlsen, game 10, why not 18...Nxb6 instead of 18...Qe8"]
[fen "r1bq1rk1/1p1nb1pp/1B1p4/P2Pp3/2N2p2/8/2P1BPPP/R2Q1RK1 b - - 0 1"]






strategy world-championship carlsen






share|improve this question













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share|improve this question










asked 7 hours ago









user929304user929304

382416




382416













  • What makes you think the Bishop "terribly annoying and strong"? It has hardly any squares!

    – Ywapom
    6 hours ago











  • @Ywapom admittedly that was a bit of an overstatement, I just mean the bishop's doing quite a good job at pinning down dark squares on the queenside without being under any threat and is ready to move to c7 coordinating with the knight to target black's most important weak pawn (backbone of e5-f4). Which all in all makes it into a decent minor piece at least compared to black bishop on e7.

    – user929304
    3 hours ago



















  • What makes you think the Bishop "terribly annoying and strong"? It has hardly any squares!

    – Ywapom
    6 hours ago











  • @Ywapom admittedly that was a bit of an overstatement, I just mean the bishop's doing quite a good job at pinning down dark squares on the queenside without being under any threat and is ready to move to c7 coordinating with the knight to target black's most important weak pawn (backbone of e5-f4). Which all in all makes it into a decent minor piece at least compared to black bishop on e7.

    – user929304
    3 hours ago

















What makes you think the Bishop "terribly annoying and strong"? It has hardly any squares!

– Ywapom
6 hours ago





What makes you think the Bishop "terribly annoying and strong"? It has hardly any squares!

– Ywapom
6 hours ago













@Ywapom admittedly that was a bit of an overstatement, I just mean the bishop's doing quite a good job at pinning down dark squares on the queenside without being under any threat and is ready to move to c7 coordinating with the knight to target black's most important weak pawn (backbone of e5-f4). Which all in all makes it into a decent minor piece at least compared to black bishop on e7.

– user929304
3 hours ago





@Ywapom admittedly that was a bit of an overstatement, I just mean the bishop's doing quite a good job at pinning down dark squares on the queenside without being under any threat and is ready to move to c7 coordinating with the knight to target black's most important weak pawn (backbone of e5-f4). Which all in all makes it into a decent minor piece at least compared to black bishop on e7.

– user929304
3 hours ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

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3














Several reasons I can think of:




  • black is obviously playing on the kingside and Qe8 is a useful move aiming to transfer the queen to f7, g6 or perhaps h5 later. Also it might be useful to push e4 later.

  • the bishop on b6 is not annoying. At the moment it attacks the black queen but that's about it. To some extent it is also blocking other white pieces. Also the bishop does not have many squares and could (if necessary) be taken later.

  • the position after 18...Nxb6 19 Nxb6 is worse, because now you have a knight on b6 and the pawn on b7 is more prone to become weak. Also the light squares are much weaker then.






share|improve this answer































    3














    From a purely positional point of view, 18...Nxb6 would have been a
    terrible mistake, as it would have allowed white to then forcefully trade the light squared bishops with the immediate Bg4
    move, leaving exposed all the light square weaknesses that black has
    created with the d6-e5-f4 setup.



    These weaknesses (created holes) would then have been permanently exploited by white's
    knight (and queen), in other words, white's minor piece (b6 knight) would have
    dominated the game and been virtually untouchable on light squares for the rest of the game.
    Notice that next to the knight controlling key light squares from b6,
    it's also for example quite feasible for white to re-route the knight
    to e4, established centrally (permanently) and constantly eying black's
    weak d6 pawn.



    And as for black, Carlsen would have simply been left with a bad dark
    squared bishop hemmed in by his own structure.
    Therefore, Carlsen chose wisely to play Qe8 instead of Nxb6, thus,
    preserving his c8 bishop as Bg4 no longer forces a trade thanks to
    the well placed knight on d7.



    In summary, this is a purely positional decision where black is well
    aware that having weakened their light squares, any scenario with the
    knight vs dark square bishop would be unfavorable for them, and
    arguably,
    at that level even objectively lost! Instead having kept both the d7
    knight and c8 bishop, black has in fact preserved two pieces that can
    provide light square control.



    The following situations would have ensued had Carlsen played
    18...Nxb6:



    18...Nxb6 19.Nxb6 Ra7 20.Bg4



    enter image description here



    which would have led to positions of the following nature, infested with light square holes:



    enter image description here






    share|improve this answer



















    • 1





      Speaking of game 10, I just found you a gem: youtube.com/watch?v=ctiw40M-Fo4 A complete analysis of the game by none other than Peter Svidler!

      – Phonon
      7 hours ago



















    3














    After 18 ... Qe8 the bishop on b6 is attacking thin air and isn't very annoying.

    After 18 ... Nxb6 19. Nxb6 the knight on b6 is very annoying indeed. The a8 rook is forced to a7 and black's pieces are becoming uncoordinated.

    After 18 ... Nxb6 19. axb6 Rxa1 20. Qxa1 black is in trouble. White's b6 pawn is looking dangerous, black's b7 pawn is going to come under attack and his position is cramped and uncoordinated.






    share|improve this answer























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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      3














      Several reasons I can think of:




      • black is obviously playing on the kingside and Qe8 is a useful move aiming to transfer the queen to f7, g6 or perhaps h5 later. Also it might be useful to push e4 later.

      • the bishop on b6 is not annoying. At the moment it attacks the black queen but that's about it. To some extent it is also blocking other white pieces. Also the bishop does not have many squares and could (if necessary) be taken later.

      • the position after 18...Nxb6 19 Nxb6 is worse, because now you have a knight on b6 and the pawn on b7 is more prone to become weak. Also the light squares are much weaker then.






      share|improve this answer




























        3














        Several reasons I can think of:




        • black is obviously playing on the kingside and Qe8 is a useful move aiming to transfer the queen to f7, g6 or perhaps h5 later. Also it might be useful to push e4 later.

        • the bishop on b6 is not annoying. At the moment it attacks the black queen but that's about it. To some extent it is also blocking other white pieces. Also the bishop does not have many squares and could (if necessary) be taken later.

        • the position after 18...Nxb6 19 Nxb6 is worse, because now you have a knight on b6 and the pawn on b7 is more prone to become weak. Also the light squares are much weaker then.






        share|improve this answer


























          3












          3








          3







          Several reasons I can think of:




          • black is obviously playing on the kingside and Qe8 is a useful move aiming to transfer the queen to f7, g6 or perhaps h5 later. Also it might be useful to push e4 later.

          • the bishop on b6 is not annoying. At the moment it attacks the black queen but that's about it. To some extent it is also blocking other white pieces. Also the bishop does not have many squares and could (if necessary) be taken later.

          • the position after 18...Nxb6 19 Nxb6 is worse, because now you have a knight on b6 and the pawn on b7 is more prone to become weak. Also the light squares are much weaker then.






          share|improve this answer













          Several reasons I can think of:




          • black is obviously playing on the kingside and Qe8 is a useful move aiming to transfer the queen to f7, g6 or perhaps h5 later. Also it might be useful to push e4 later.

          • the bishop on b6 is not annoying. At the moment it attacks the black queen but that's about it. To some extent it is also blocking other white pieces. Also the bishop does not have many squares and could (if necessary) be taken later.

          • the position after 18...Nxb6 19 Nxb6 is worse, because now you have a knight on b6 and the pawn on b7 is more prone to become weak. Also the light squares are much weaker then.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 7 hours ago









          user1583209user1583209

          12.3k21655




          12.3k21655























              3














              From a purely positional point of view, 18...Nxb6 would have been a
              terrible mistake, as it would have allowed white to then forcefully trade the light squared bishops with the immediate Bg4
              move, leaving exposed all the light square weaknesses that black has
              created with the d6-e5-f4 setup.



              These weaknesses (created holes) would then have been permanently exploited by white's
              knight (and queen), in other words, white's minor piece (b6 knight) would have
              dominated the game and been virtually untouchable on light squares for the rest of the game.
              Notice that next to the knight controlling key light squares from b6,
              it's also for example quite feasible for white to re-route the knight
              to e4, established centrally (permanently) and constantly eying black's
              weak d6 pawn.



              And as for black, Carlsen would have simply been left with a bad dark
              squared bishop hemmed in by his own structure.
              Therefore, Carlsen chose wisely to play Qe8 instead of Nxb6, thus,
              preserving his c8 bishop as Bg4 no longer forces a trade thanks to
              the well placed knight on d7.



              In summary, this is a purely positional decision where black is well
              aware that having weakened their light squares, any scenario with the
              knight vs dark square bishop would be unfavorable for them, and
              arguably,
              at that level even objectively lost! Instead having kept both the d7
              knight and c8 bishop, black has in fact preserved two pieces that can
              provide light square control.



              The following situations would have ensued had Carlsen played
              18...Nxb6:



              18...Nxb6 19.Nxb6 Ra7 20.Bg4



              enter image description here



              which would have led to positions of the following nature, infested with light square holes:



              enter image description here






              share|improve this answer



















              • 1





                Speaking of game 10, I just found you a gem: youtube.com/watch?v=ctiw40M-Fo4 A complete analysis of the game by none other than Peter Svidler!

                – Phonon
                7 hours ago
















              3














              From a purely positional point of view, 18...Nxb6 would have been a
              terrible mistake, as it would have allowed white to then forcefully trade the light squared bishops with the immediate Bg4
              move, leaving exposed all the light square weaknesses that black has
              created with the d6-e5-f4 setup.



              These weaknesses (created holes) would then have been permanently exploited by white's
              knight (and queen), in other words, white's minor piece (b6 knight) would have
              dominated the game and been virtually untouchable on light squares for the rest of the game.
              Notice that next to the knight controlling key light squares from b6,
              it's also for example quite feasible for white to re-route the knight
              to e4, established centrally (permanently) and constantly eying black's
              weak d6 pawn.



              And as for black, Carlsen would have simply been left with a bad dark
              squared bishop hemmed in by his own structure.
              Therefore, Carlsen chose wisely to play Qe8 instead of Nxb6, thus,
              preserving his c8 bishop as Bg4 no longer forces a trade thanks to
              the well placed knight on d7.



              In summary, this is a purely positional decision where black is well
              aware that having weakened their light squares, any scenario with the
              knight vs dark square bishop would be unfavorable for them, and
              arguably,
              at that level even objectively lost! Instead having kept both the d7
              knight and c8 bishop, black has in fact preserved two pieces that can
              provide light square control.



              The following situations would have ensued had Carlsen played
              18...Nxb6:



              18...Nxb6 19.Nxb6 Ra7 20.Bg4



              enter image description here



              which would have led to positions of the following nature, infested with light square holes:



              enter image description here






              share|improve this answer



















              • 1





                Speaking of game 10, I just found you a gem: youtube.com/watch?v=ctiw40M-Fo4 A complete analysis of the game by none other than Peter Svidler!

                – Phonon
                7 hours ago














              3












              3








              3







              From a purely positional point of view, 18...Nxb6 would have been a
              terrible mistake, as it would have allowed white to then forcefully trade the light squared bishops with the immediate Bg4
              move, leaving exposed all the light square weaknesses that black has
              created with the d6-e5-f4 setup.



              These weaknesses (created holes) would then have been permanently exploited by white's
              knight (and queen), in other words, white's minor piece (b6 knight) would have
              dominated the game and been virtually untouchable on light squares for the rest of the game.
              Notice that next to the knight controlling key light squares from b6,
              it's also for example quite feasible for white to re-route the knight
              to e4, established centrally (permanently) and constantly eying black's
              weak d6 pawn.



              And as for black, Carlsen would have simply been left with a bad dark
              squared bishop hemmed in by his own structure.
              Therefore, Carlsen chose wisely to play Qe8 instead of Nxb6, thus,
              preserving his c8 bishop as Bg4 no longer forces a trade thanks to
              the well placed knight on d7.



              In summary, this is a purely positional decision where black is well
              aware that having weakened their light squares, any scenario with the
              knight vs dark square bishop would be unfavorable for them, and
              arguably,
              at that level even objectively lost! Instead having kept both the d7
              knight and c8 bishop, black has in fact preserved two pieces that can
              provide light square control.



              The following situations would have ensued had Carlsen played
              18...Nxb6:



              18...Nxb6 19.Nxb6 Ra7 20.Bg4



              enter image description here



              which would have led to positions of the following nature, infested with light square holes:



              enter image description here






              share|improve this answer













              From a purely positional point of view, 18...Nxb6 would have been a
              terrible mistake, as it would have allowed white to then forcefully trade the light squared bishops with the immediate Bg4
              move, leaving exposed all the light square weaknesses that black has
              created with the d6-e5-f4 setup.



              These weaknesses (created holes) would then have been permanently exploited by white's
              knight (and queen), in other words, white's minor piece (b6 knight) would have
              dominated the game and been virtually untouchable on light squares for the rest of the game.
              Notice that next to the knight controlling key light squares from b6,
              it's also for example quite feasible for white to re-route the knight
              to e4, established centrally (permanently) and constantly eying black's
              weak d6 pawn.



              And as for black, Carlsen would have simply been left with a bad dark
              squared bishop hemmed in by his own structure.
              Therefore, Carlsen chose wisely to play Qe8 instead of Nxb6, thus,
              preserving his c8 bishop as Bg4 no longer forces a trade thanks to
              the well placed knight on d7.



              In summary, this is a purely positional decision where black is well
              aware that having weakened their light squares, any scenario with the
              knight vs dark square bishop would be unfavorable for them, and
              arguably,
              at that level even objectively lost! Instead having kept both the d7
              knight and c8 bishop, black has in fact preserved two pieces that can
              provide light square control.



              The following situations would have ensued had Carlsen played
              18...Nxb6:



              18...Nxb6 19.Nxb6 Ra7 20.Bg4



              enter image description here



              which would have led to positions of the following nature, infested with light square holes:



              enter image description here







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered 7 hours ago









              PhononPhonon

              5,2881336




              5,2881336








              • 1





                Speaking of game 10, I just found you a gem: youtube.com/watch?v=ctiw40M-Fo4 A complete analysis of the game by none other than Peter Svidler!

                – Phonon
                7 hours ago














              • 1





                Speaking of game 10, I just found you a gem: youtube.com/watch?v=ctiw40M-Fo4 A complete analysis of the game by none other than Peter Svidler!

                – Phonon
                7 hours ago








              1




              1





              Speaking of game 10, I just found you a gem: youtube.com/watch?v=ctiw40M-Fo4 A complete analysis of the game by none other than Peter Svidler!

              – Phonon
              7 hours ago





              Speaking of game 10, I just found you a gem: youtube.com/watch?v=ctiw40M-Fo4 A complete analysis of the game by none other than Peter Svidler!

              – Phonon
              7 hours ago











              3














              After 18 ... Qe8 the bishop on b6 is attacking thin air and isn't very annoying.

              After 18 ... Nxb6 19. Nxb6 the knight on b6 is very annoying indeed. The a8 rook is forced to a7 and black's pieces are becoming uncoordinated.

              After 18 ... Nxb6 19. axb6 Rxa1 20. Qxa1 black is in trouble. White's b6 pawn is looking dangerous, black's b7 pawn is going to come under attack and his position is cramped and uncoordinated.






              share|improve this answer




























                3














                After 18 ... Qe8 the bishop on b6 is attacking thin air and isn't very annoying.

                After 18 ... Nxb6 19. Nxb6 the knight on b6 is very annoying indeed. The a8 rook is forced to a7 and black's pieces are becoming uncoordinated.

                After 18 ... Nxb6 19. axb6 Rxa1 20. Qxa1 black is in trouble. White's b6 pawn is looking dangerous, black's b7 pawn is going to come under attack and his position is cramped and uncoordinated.






                share|improve this answer


























                  3












                  3








                  3







                  After 18 ... Qe8 the bishop on b6 is attacking thin air and isn't very annoying.

                  After 18 ... Nxb6 19. Nxb6 the knight on b6 is very annoying indeed. The a8 rook is forced to a7 and black's pieces are becoming uncoordinated.

                  After 18 ... Nxb6 19. axb6 Rxa1 20. Qxa1 black is in trouble. White's b6 pawn is looking dangerous, black's b7 pawn is going to come under attack and his position is cramped and uncoordinated.






                  share|improve this answer













                  After 18 ... Qe8 the bishop on b6 is attacking thin air and isn't very annoying.

                  After 18 ... Nxb6 19. Nxb6 the knight on b6 is very annoying indeed. The a8 rook is forced to a7 and black's pieces are becoming uncoordinated.

                  After 18 ... Nxb6 19. axb6 Rxa1 20. Qxa1 black is in trouble. White's b6 pawn is looking dangerous, black's b7 pawn is going to come under attack and his position is cramped and uncoordinated.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 7 hours ago









                  Brian TowersBrian Towers

                  15.6k32967




                  15.6k32967






























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