When is a raven like an eagle? When it's on the Ravenclaw house crest
I saw an image macro on facebook the other day that started me thinking;
I tried to look into it and I found two separate styles.
Pottermore Style
Book Style
Neither of these to me looks anything like a raven, besides being bird shaped.
Is the crest meant to show a raven, or just some sort of bird?
I've struggled to find an 'official' rendition of the crest, and this is the best I could find, but I've seen plenty of fan-mad crests that do show a raven, seemingly correcting this 'mistake'.
So why does the Ravenclaw symbol show an eagle, and not a Raven?
harry-potter hogwarts
edited Dec 8 '12 at 11:42
Slytherincess
119k105614856
asked Dec 8 '12 at 10:32
AncientSwordRage♦AncientSwordRage
44.7k70341715
|
show 3 more comments
I saw an image macro on facebook the other day that started me thinking;
I tried to look into it and I found two separate styles.
Pottermore Style
Book Style
Neither of these to me looks anything like a raven, besides being bird shaped.
Is the crest meant to show a raven, or just some sort of bird?
I've struggled to find an 'official' rendition of the crest, and this is the best I could find, but I've seen plenty of fan-mad crests that do show a raven, seemingly correcting this 'mistake'.
So why does the Ravenclaw symbol show an eagle, and not a Raven?
harry-potter hogwarts
edited Dec 8 '12 at 11:42
Slytherincess
119k105614856
asked Dec 8 '12 at 10:32
AncientSwordRage♦AncientSwordRage
44.7k70341715
1
It appears from @Slytherincess' answer that it is intended to be an eagle but I would also point out that the bird in the Pottermore-style crest does look a heck of a lot like all the ravens I have seen, and the bird in the book-style crest looks as much like a raven as it does an eagle (an angry chicken perhaps?).
– KennyPeanuts
Dec 8 '12 at 16:08
8
In heraldry, a raven and an eagle are not really distinguishable. Generally, if it's displayed (wings out to either side), then it's an eagle, and if it's in profile (especially if it has something in its beak, and/or if it's fuzzy), then it's a raven.
– Martha
Dec 8 '12 at 16:29
12
Gryffindor has a lion as their animal - why don't they have a griffin? Hufflepuff has a badger - why don't they have an out of breath puff?
– Dason
Dec 8 '12 at 17:47
8
@b_jonas - It's an eagle. Goblet of Fire says: blue with a bronze eagle for Ravenclaw in chapter 15, Beauxbatons and Durmstrang. :)
– Slytherincess
Dec 8 '12 at 20:49
2
@Pureferret - I really hope you will reconsider this answer, as apparently Pottermore has confirmed Ravenclaw's bird on the crest is an eagle, not a Raven. Your current chosen answer is incorrect. :)
– Slytherincess
May 28 '14 at 17:22
|
show 3 more comments
I saw an image macro on facebook the other day that started me thinking;
I tried to look into it and I found two separate styles.
Pottermore Style
Book Style
Neither of these to me looks anything like a raven, besides being bird shaped.
Is the crest meant to show a raven, or just some sort of bird?
I've struggled to find an 'official' rendition of the crest, and this is the best I could find, but I've seen plenty of fan-mad crests that do show a raven, seemingly correcting this 'mistake'.
So why does the Ravenclaw symbol show an eagle, and not a Raven?
harry-potter hogwarts
edited Dec 8 '12 at 11:42
Slytherincess
119k105614856
asked Dec 8 '12 at 10:32
AncientSwordRage♦AncientSwordRage
44.7k70341715
I saw an image macro on facebook the other day that started me thinking;
I tried to look into it and I found two separate styles.
Pottermore Style
Book Style
Neither of these to me looks anything like a raven, besides being bird shaped.
Is the crest meant to show a raven, or just some sort of bird?
I've struggled to find an 'official' rendition of the crest, and this is the best I could find, but I've seen plenty of fan-mad crests that do show a raven, seemingly correcting this 'mistake'.
So why does the Ravenclaw symbol show an eagle, and not a Raven?
harry-potter hogwarts
harry-potter hogwarts
edited Dec 8 '12 at 11:42
Slytherincess
119k105614856
asked Dec 8 '12 at 10:32
AncientSwordRage♦AncientSwordRage
44.7k70341715
edited Dec 8 '12 at 11:42
Slytherincess
119k105614856
asked Dec 8 '12 at 10:32
AncientSwordRage♦AncientSwordRage
44.7k70341715
edited Dec 8 '12 at 11:42
Slytherincess
119k105614856
edited Dec 8 '12 at 11:42
Slytherincess
119k105614856
edited Dec 8 '12 at 11:42
Slytherincess
119k105614856
119k105614856
asked Dec 8 '12 at 10:32
AncientSwordRage♦AncientSwordRage
44.7k70341715
asked Dec 8 '12 at 10:32
AncientSwordRage♦AncientSwordRage
44.7k70341715
asked Dec 8 '12 at 10:32
AncientSwordRage♦AncientSwordRage
44.7k70341715
44.7k70341715
1
It appears from @Slytherincess' answer that it is intended to be an eagle but I would also point out that the bird in the Pottermore-style crest does look a heck of a lot like all the ravens I have seen, and the bird in the book-style crest looks as much like a raven as it does an eagle (an angry chicken perhaps?).
– KennyPeanuts
Dec 8 '12 at 16:08
8
In heraldry, a raven and an eagle are not really distinguishable. Generally, if it's displayed (wings out to either side), then it's an eagle, and if it's in profile (especially if it has something in its beak, and/or if it's fuzzy), then it's a raven.
– Martha
Dec 8 '12 at 16:29
12
Gryffindor has a lion as their animal - why don't they have a griffin? Hufflepuff has a badger - why don't they have an out of breath puff?
– Dason
Dec 8 '12 at 17:47
8
@b_jonas - It's an eagle. Goblet of Fire says: blue with a bronze eagle for Ravenclaw in chapter 15, Beauxbatons and Durmstrang. :)
– Slytherincess
Dec 8 '12 at 20:49
2
@Pureferret - I really hope you will reconsider this answer, as apparently Pottermore has confirmed Ravenclaw's bird on the crest is an eagle, not a Raven. Your current chosen answer is incorrect. :)
– Slytherincess
May 28 '14 at 17:22
|
show 3 more comments
1
It appears from @Slytherincess' answer that it is intended to be an eagle but I would also point out that the bird in the Pottermore-style crest does look a heck of a lot like all the ravens I have seen, and the bird in the book-style crest looks as much like a raven as it does an eagle (an angry chicken perhaps?).
– KennyPeanuts
Dec 8 '12 at 16:08
8
In heraldry, a raven and an eagle are not really distinguishable. Generally, if it's displayed (wings out to either side), then it's an eagle, and if it's in profile (especially if it has something in its beak, and/or if it's fuzzy), then it's a raven.
– Martha
Dec 8 '12 at 16:29
12
Gryffindor has a lion as their animal - why don't they have a griffin? Hufflepuff has a badger - why don't they have an out of breath puff?
– Dason
Dec 8 '12 at 17:47
8
@b_jonas - It's an eagle. Goblet of Fire says: blue with a bronze eagle for Ravenclaw in chapter 15, Beauxbatons and Durmstrang. :)
– Slytherincess
Dec 8 '12 at 20:49
2
@Pureferret - I really hope you will reconsider this answer, as apparently Pottermore has confirmed Ravenclaw's bird on the crest is an eagle, not a Raven. Your current chosen answer is incorrect. :)
– Slytherincess
May 28 '14 at 17:22
1
1
It appears from @Slytherincess' answer that it is intended to be an eagle but I would also point out that the bird in the Pottermore-style crest does look a heck of a lot like all the ravens I have seen, and the bird in the book-style crest looks as much like a raven as it does an eagle (an angry chicken perhaps?).
– KennyPeanuts
Dec 8 '12 at 16:08
It appears from @Slytherincess' answer that it is intended to be an eagle but I would also point out that the bird in the Pottermore-style crest does look a heck of a lot like all the ravens I have seen, and the bird in the book-style crest looks as much like a raven as it does an eagle (an angry chicken perhaps?).
– KennyPeanuts
Dec 8 '12 at 16:08
8
8
In heraldry, a raven and an eagle are not really distinguishable. Generally, if it's displayed (wings out to either side), then it's an eagle, and if it's in profile (especially if it has something in its beak, and/or if it's fuzzy), then it's a raven.
– Martha
Dec 8 '12 at 16:29
In heraldry, a raven and an eagle are not really distinguishable. Generally, if it's displayed (wings out to either side), then it's an eagle, and if it's in profile (especially if it has something in its beak, and/or if it's fuzzy), then it's a raven.
– Martha
Dec 8 '12 at 16:29
12
12
Gryffindor has a lion as their animal - why don't they have a griffin? Hufflepuff has a badger - why don't they have an out of breath puff?
– Dason
Dec 8 '12 at 17:47
Gryffindor has a lion as their animal - why don't they have a griffin? Hufflepuff has a badger - why don't they have an out of breath puff?
– Dason
Dec 8 '12 at 17:47
8
8
@b_jonas - It's an eagle. Goblet of Fire says: blue with a bronze eagle for Ravenclaw in chapter 15, Beauxbatons and Durmstrang. :)
– Slytherincess
Dec 8 '12 at 20:49
@b_jonas - It's an eagle. Goblet of Fire says: blue with a bronze eagle for Ravenclaw in chapter 15, Beauxbatons and Durmstrang. :)
– Slytherincess
Dec 8 '12 at 20:49
2
2
@Pureferret - I really hope you will reconsider this answer, as apparently Pottermore has confirmed Ravenclaw's bird on the crest is an eagle, not a Raven. Your current chosen answer is incorrect. :)
– Slytherincess
May 28 '14 at 17:22
@Pureferret - I really hope you will reconsider this answer, as apparently Pottermore has confirmed Ravenclaw's bird on the crest is an eagle, not a Raven. Your current chosen answer is incorrect. :)
– Slytherincess
May 28 '14 at 17:22
|
show 3 more comments
8 Answers
8
active
oldest
votes
When is a raven not an eagle?
When the word raven is describing a color not the bird. It is an easy mistake to make if you are unfamiliar with old world naming conventions.
Raven
/ˈrāvən/ -
Noun: A large heavily built crow, esp. the all-black common raven (Corvus corax), feeding chiefly on carrion.
Adjective: Of a glossy black color
Verb: (of a ferocious wild animal) Hunt for prey.
Synonyms
noun: crow - corbie - rook;
adjective: black;
verb: pillage - loot - maraud - harry - devour
The name of the founder was Rowena Ravenclaw. The raven being described is not a bird that is a raven, but the color of the claw of the bird (an eagle) that is being described. Rowena Ravenclaw gave her name and her standard which included an eagle that is described in its name as raven-clawed. (black colored claws)
answered Dec 8 '12 at 19:06
Thaddeus Howze♦Thaddeus Howze
194k18611912
8
Her name was Ravenclaw. It has nothing to do with house colors. It is merely a naming convention, nothing more. The bird on the standard is most likely an eagle since ravens were more associated with carrion birds. So people are confusing her name with the bird, believing there should be a raven on the standard, not an eagle. Familiarity with heraldry helps understand how this misunderstanding could take place.
– Thaddeus Howze♦
Dec 8 '12 at 20:23
1
Well, I get what you're saying. In Dason's answer, though, Martha says the opposite about heraldry, citing a practice called "punning" which does associate an animal with a name if possible. Forget what I said about the house colors -- I was responding to your comments about the color of the talons, but it's irrelevant to the issue of heraldry, which I think is more at issue. :)
– Slytherincess
Dec 8 '12 at 20:41
3
A book written by a modern writer creating a fictional universe overlaying thousands of years of history in a rather lackadaisical and unsystematic fashion and you find MY answer deeply unsatisfying? OED first reference for the English word is 17th century. Earlier versions of the word exist in French and Latin as well, with differing meanings. Punning may also be responsible for those changes as well.
– Thaddeus Howze♦
Dec 8 '12 at 21:24
7
@Micah I find it amusing you criticize Thaddeus for an English definition not being a valid name for someone born in 993 AD. In Scotland 993, they spoke Old English. Obviously, Ravenclaw (a combination of two post dark ages English words) was not her name, but a translation of her name. The OE word for night is nihthræfn, while the OE word for claw is clifer. Her name was likely Nihthræfnclifer, or somesuch, meaning Nightclaw. Thaddeus' answer stands just fine as a post-Dark Age English ideologic translation of Nihthræfnclifer.
– Gabe Willard
Dec 8 '12 at 22:32
2
Raven descends from the same OE word, as does night. Both would be valid translations, but Raven is closer to the interpretation "dark" as opposed to the possible "time period" interpretation.
– Gabe Willard
Dec 8 '12 at 22:34
|
show 2 more comments
The Ravenclaw house crest shows an eagle, according to Pottermore, because eagles soar where others cannot climb.
This is the official eagle image for Ravenclaw from Pottermore:
I would pay no attention to the fan-made house crests, aside from enjoying them as fun examples of fan art.
edited 6 hours ago
Stormblessed
714321
answered Dec 8 '12 at 11:24
SlytherincessSlytherincess
119k105614856
3
that is kinda funny because a raven can soar just as good as an eagle... now if they put a turkey vulture on the crest, that would be a different story.
– KennyPeanuts
Dec 8 '12 at 16:11
9
+1 I'm surprised it's not a raven. Ravens (crows in general) are famed for their very exceptional intelligence so they would be the perfect animal for Ravenclaw. As for soaring where others cannot climb... I thought that kind of greatness belonged to Slytherin.
– commando
Dec 8 '12 at 17:20
1
@commando -- And if I recall correctly, don't ravens collect things? One might take that mean collecting little bits of knowledge here and there and spiriting them away. That kind of image sits well for me for Ravenclaw. Can't argue with you re: Slytherin ;) Thanks for the +1 :)
– Slytherincess
Dec 8 '12 at 20:34
2
The artists behind the Pottermore house crests shared their design process, and they call it an eagle, not a raven: insider.pottermore.com/2011/10/…
– alexwlchan
May 28 '14 at 9:58
3
@alexwlchan -- Which makes complete sense ... wait, it doesn't make sense ... !!!! :)
– Slytherincess
May 28 '14 at 17:18
|
show 4 more comments
Why should it show a raven? The house is named after Rowena Ravenclaw. Sure her name has "raven" in it but I see no reason that Ravenclaw should choose a raven to use as their symbol; just like I see no reason why Brazil should have a bra on their national flag (thankfully they have common sense as well and don't have a bra on their flag). The eagle is meant to represent that Ravenclaws "soar where others cannot climb" so there is meaning there. It doesn't seem to be in the nature of Ravenclaw to choose a raven solely because there is a raven in the house name unless there is other meaning they would wish to ascribe to that symbol.
answered Dec 8 '12 at 14:13
DasonDason
5,88684386
9
Heraldry has a concept called canting: alluding to or punning on the bearer's name. Thus, it would be totally normal for the Ravenclaw family to have a raven on their arms. In fact, if the arms had a bird on it that was not displayed (i.e. not definitely an eagle), then a herald would probably conclude that the bird is meant to be a raven, just based on the name. (This happens a lot in hastily-painted rolls of arms: about all you can tell from the picture is that it's a critter of some sort, and then you see that the name is Brock, so then you conclude that the critter is a badger.)
– Martha
Dec 8 '12 at 16:34
3
Sure. But saying "Ravenclaw's animal isn't a raven and that doesn't make sense" seems silly to me. You could allude to Ravenclaw's name by making the symbol a raven. Or you could use something that makes more sense that actual represents the house itself. It just seems to me that Rowena Ravenclaw would choose to use a symbol that she felt symbolized the house itself (and canon seems to back that up).
– Dason
Dec 8 '12 at 17:46
6
Except that heraldically speaking, it doesn't make sense: if there's an obvious cant available, its very surprising (to put it mildly) to not have that on the arms. And then to have something that is close-but-not-quite? That just smacks of "someone didn't study their heraldry".
– Martha
Dec 8 '12 at 19:32
6
And you're right: Gryffindor should have a gold griffin on their arms. Which is just more support for "someone didn't study their heraldry".
– Martha
Dec 8 '12 at 19:36
1
+1. If Ravenclaw thought that an eagle was more representative of her house (or herself) than a raven, she would put an eagle on her crest, thank you very much.
– Adamant
Oct 29 '16 at 5:23
add a comment |
Ravenclaw's symbol is an eagle. It should not be a raven just because the founder for whom the house was named, Rowena Ravenclaw, has that bird in her name. To demonstrate, no one ever says that the symbol of Gryffindor should be a gryffin instead of a lion. Why not? Gryffin is in the name Gryffindor, isn't it?
answered Jun 23 '16 at 20:52
Peri Dreznick FisherPeri Dreznick Fisher
211
add a comment |
In the French translation of Harry Potter the Ravenclaw house is named "Serdaigle" so is Rowena's last name. Serdaigle as "Serre d'aigle" which is the exact translation of "Eagle's claw" in French. If they had translate Ravenclaw in French it would have been "Serdecorbeau" which isn't really aesthetically flattering.
edited Aug 22 '17 at 20:27
Edlothiad
54.2k21287296
answered Aug 22 '17 at 20:21
Pure-bloodPure-blood
111
2
Interesting note, but this doesn't seem to answer the question of why the symbol is an eagle.
– Edlothiad
Aug 22 '17 at 20:28
add a comment |
If you're familiar with the Ravenclaw house, one thing that sets them apart is that they LIKE being different. Of course they wouldn't want a raven, just because their house founder's last name was Ravenclaw. That's just silly. C'mon guys, don't you remember Luna Lovegood...?
answered May 11 '16 at 13:14
DevinDevin
91
1
Luna Lovegood was weird on her own and irrespective of anybody's opinion. Can you provide any evidence that shows a house-wide desire to be different?
– T.J.L.
May 11 '16 at 13:39
add a comment |
According to Pottermore
"Our emblem is the eagle, which soars where others cannot climb;"
I think this is the reason why it's an eagle, not raven. I could be wrong.
answered Dec 17 '17 at 4:51
MaddieMaddie
1
add a comment |
Ravens are renown for their intelligence. Which makes perfect sense for the ravenclaw crest. Gryphons are part lion. Snakes slither. And badgers huff and puff. I say, don't read more into it - it's a book originally written for kids.
answered Oct 29 '16 at 3:27
Jeannie DaltonJeannie Dalton
1
2
That seems reasonable enough. Has anyone confirmed this, though?
– Adamant
Oct 29 '16 at 4:53
Except that canon says something completely different
– Matthew Barclay
Mar 11 '18 at 13:19
add a comment |
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8 Answers
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8 Answers
8
active
oldest
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active
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active
oldest
votes
When is a raven not an eagle?
When the word raven is describing a color not the bird. It is an easy mistake to make if you are unfamiliar with old world naming conventions.
Raven
/ˈrāvən/ -
Noun: A large heavily built crow, esp. the all-black common raven (Corvus corax), feeding chiefly on carrion.
Adjective: Of a glossy black color
Verb: (of a ferocious wild animal) Hunt for prey.
Synonyms
noun: crow - corbie - rook;
adjective: black;
verb: pillage - loot - maraud - harry - devour
The name of the founder was Rowena Ravenclaw. The raven being described is not a bird that is a raven, but the color of the claw of the bird (an eagle) that is being described. Rowena Ravenclaw gave her name and her standard which included an eagle that is described in its name as raven-clawed. (black colored claws)
answered Dec 8 '12 at 19:06
Thaddeus Howze♦Thaddeus Howze
194k18611912
8
Her name was Ravenclaw. It has nothing to do with house colors. It is merely a naming convention, nothing more. The bird on the standard is most likely an eagle since ravens were more associated with carrion birds. So people are confusing her name with the bird, believing there should be a raven on the standard, not an eagle. Familiarity with heraldry helps understand how this misunderstanding could take place.
– Thaddeus Howze♦
Dec 8 '12 at 20:23
1
Well, I get what you're saying. In Dason's answer, though, Martha says the opposite about heraldry, citing a practice called "punning" which does associate an animal with a name if possible. Forget what I said about the house colors -- I was responding to your comments about the color of the talons, but it's irrelevant to the issue of heraldry, which I think is more at issue. :)
– Slytherincess
Dec 8 '12 at 20:41
3
A book written by a modern writer creating a fictional universe overlaying thousands of years of history in a rather lackadaisical and unsystematic fashion and you find MY answer deeply unsatisfying? OED first reference for the English word is 17th century. Earlier versions of the word exist in French and Latin as well, with differing meanings. Punning may also be responsible for those changes as well.
– Thaddeus Howze♦
Dec 8 '12 at 21:24
7
@Micah I find it amusing you criticize Thaddeus for an English definition not being a valid name for someone born in 993 AD. In Scotland 993, they spoke Old English. Obviously, Ravenclaw (a combination of two post dark ages English words) was not her name, but a translation of her name. The OE word for night is nihthræfn, while the OE word for claw is clifer. Her name was likely Nihthræfnclifer, or somesuch, meaning Nightclaw. Thaddeus' answer stands just fine as a post-Dark Age English ideologic translation of Nihthræfnclifer.
– Gabe Willard
Dec 8 '12 at 22:32
2
Raven descends from the same OE word, as does night. Both would be valid translations, but Raven is closer to the interpretation "dark" as opposed to the possible "time period" interpretation.
– Gabe Willard
Dec 8 '12 at 22:34
|
show 2 more comments
When is a raven not an eagle?
When the word raven is describing a color not the bird. It is an easy mistake to make if you are unfamiliar with old world naming conventions.
Raven
/ˈrāvən/ -
Noun: A large heavily built crow, esp. the all-black common raven (Corvus corax), feeding chiefly on carrion.
Adjective: Of a glossy black color
Verb: (of a ferocious wild animal) Hunt for prey.
Synonyms
noun: crow - corbie - rook;
adjective: black;
verb: pillage - loot - maraud - harry - devour
The name of the founder was Rowena Ravenclaw. The raven being described is not a bird that is a raven, but the color of the claw of the bird (an eagle) that is being described. Rowena Ravenclaw gave her name and her standard which included an eagle that is described in its name as raven-clawed. (black colored claws)
answered Dec 8 '12 at 19:06
Thaddeus Howze♦Thaddeus Howze
194k18611912
8
Her name was Ravenclaw. It has nothing to do with house colors. It is merely a naming convention, nothing more. The bird on the standard is most likely an eagle since ravens were more associated with carrion birds. So people are confusing her name with the bird, believing there should be a raven on the standard, not an eagle. Familiarity with heraldry helps understand how this misunderstanding could take place.
– Thaddeus Howze♦
Dec 8 '12 at 20:23
1
Well, I get what you're saying. In Dason's answer, though, Martha says the opposite about heraldry, citing a practice called "punning" which does associate an animal with a name if possible. Forget what I said about the house colors -- I was responding to your comments about the color of the talons, but it's irrelevant to the issue of heraldry, which I think is more at issue. :)
– Slytherincess
Dec 8 '12 at 20:41
3
A book written by a modern writer creating a fictional universe overlaying thousands of years of history in a rather lackadaisical and unsystematic fashion and you find MY answer deeply unsatisfying? OED first reference for the English word is 17th century. Earlier versions of the word exist in French and Latin as well, with differing meanings. Punning may also be responsible for those changes as well.
– Thaddeus Howze♦
Dec 8 '12 at 21:24
7
@Micah I find it amusing you criticize Thaddeus for an English definition not being a valid name for someone born in 993 AD. In Scotland 993, they spoke Old English. Obviously, Ravenclaw (a combination of two post dark ages English words) was not her name, but a translation of her name. The OE word for night is nihthræfn, while the OE word for claw is clifer. Her name was likely Nihthræfnclifer, or somesuch, meaning Nightclaw. Thaddeus' answer stands just fine as a post-Dark Age English ideologic translation of Nihthræfnclifer.
– Gabe Willard
Dec 8 '12 at 22:32
2
Raven descends from the same OE word, as does night. Both would be valid translations, but Raven is closer to the interpretation "dark" as opposed to the possible "time period" interpretation.
– Gabe Willard
Dec 8 '12 at 22:34
|
show 2 more comments
When is a raven not an eagle?
When the word raven is describing a color not the bird. It is an easy mistake to make if you are unfamiliar with old world naming conventions.
Raven
/ˈrāvən/ -
Noun: A large heavily built crow, esp. the all-black common raven (Corvus corax), feeding chiefly on carrion.
Adjective: Of a glossy black color
Verb: (of a ferocious wild animal) Hunt for prey.
Synonyms
noun: crow - corbie - rook;
adjective: black;
verb: pillage - loot - maraud - harry - devour
The name of the founder was Rowena Ravenclaw. The raven being described is not a bird that is a raven, but the color of the claw of the bird (an eagle) that is being described. Rowena Ravenclaw gave her name and her standard which included an eagle that is described in its name as raven-clawed. (black colored claws)
answered Dec 8 '12 at 19:06
Thaddeus Howze♦Thaddeus Howze
194k18611912
When is a raven not an eagle?
When the word raven is describing a color not the bird. It is an easy mistake to make if you are unfamiliar with old world naming conventions.
Raven
/ˈrāvən/ -
Noun: A large heavily built crow, esp. the all-black common raven (Corvus corax), feeding chiefly on carrion.
Adjective: Of a glossy black color
Verb: (of a ferocious wild animal) Hunt for prey.
Synonyms
noun: crow - corbie - rook;
adjective: black;
verb: pillage - loot - maraud - harry - devour
The name of the founder was Rowena Ravenclaw. The raven being described is not a bird that is a raven, but the color of the claw of the bird (an eagle) that is being described. Rowena Ravenclaw gave her name and her standard which included an eagle that is described in its name as raven-clawed. (black colored claws)
answered Dec 8 '12 at 19:06
Thaddeus Howze♦Thaddeus Howze
194k18611912
answered Dec 8 '12 at 19:06
Thaddeus Howze♦Thaddeus Howze
194k18611912
answered Dec 8 '12 at 19:06
Thaddeus Howze♦Thaddeus Howze
194k18611912
answered Dec 8 '12 at 19:06
Thaddeus Howze♦Thaddeus Howze
194k18611912
194k18611912
8
Her name was Ravenclaw. It has nothing to do with house colors. It is merely a naming convention, nothing more. The bird on the standard is most likely an eagle since ravens were more associated with carrion birds. So people are confusing her name with the bird, believing there should be a raven on the standard, not an eagle. Familiarity with heraldry helps understand how this misunderstanding could take place.
– Thaddeus Howze♦
Dec 8 '12 at 20:23
1
Well, I get what you're saying. In Dason's answer, though, Martha says the opposite about heraldry, citing a practice called "punning" which does associate an animal with a name if possible. Forget what I said about the house colors -- I was responding to your comments about the color of the talons, but it's irrelevant to the issue of heraldry, which I think is more at issue. :)
– Slytherincess
Dec 8 '12 at 20:41
3
A book written by a modern writer creating a fictional universe overlaying thousands of years of history in a rather lackadaisical and unsystematic fashion and you find MY answer deeply unsatisfying? OED first reference for the English word is 17th century. Earlier versions of the word exist in French and Latin as well, with differing meanings. Punning may also be responsible for those changes as well.
– Thaddeus Howze♦
Dec 8 '12 at 21:24
7
@Micah I find it amusing you criticize Thaddeus for an English definition not being a valid name for someone born in 993 AD. In Scotland 993, they spoke Old English. Obviously, Ravenclaw (a combination of two post dark ages English words) was not her name, but a translation of her name. The OE word for night is nihthræfn, while the OE word for claw is clifer. Her name was likely Nihthræfnclifer, or somesuch, meaning Nightclaw. Thaddeus' answer stands just fine as a post-Dark Age English ideologic translation of Nihthræfnclifer.
– Gabe Willard
Dec 8 '12 at 22:32
2
Raven descends from the same OE word, as does night. Both would be valid translations, but Raven is closer to the interpretation "dark" as opposed to the possible "time period" interpretation.
– Gabe Willard
Dec 8 '12 at 22:34
|
show 2 more comments
8
Her name was Ravenclaw. It has nothing to do with house colors. It is merely a naming convention, nothing more. The bird on the standard is most likely an eagle since ravens were more associated with carrion birds. So people are confusing her name with the bird, believing there should be a raven on the standard, not an eagle. Familiarity with heraldry helps understand how this misunderstanding could take place.
– Thaddeus Howze♦
Dec 8 '12 at 20:23
1
Well, I get what you're saying. In Dason's answer, though, Martha says the opposite about heraldry, citing a practice called "punning" which does associate an animal with a name if possible. Forget what I said about the house colors -- I was responding to your comments about the color of the talons, but it's irrelevant to the issue of heraldry, which I think is more at issue. :)
– Slytherincess
Dec 8 '12 at 20:41
3
A book written by a modern writer creating a fictional universe overlaying thousands of years of history in a rather lackadaisical and unsystematic fashion and you find MY answer deeply unsatisfying? OED first reference for the English word is 17th century. Earlier versions of the word exist in French and Latin as well, with differing meanings. Punning may also be responsible for those changes as well.
– Thaddeus Howze♦
Dec 8 '12 at 21:24
7
@Micah I find it amusing you criticize Thaddeus for an English definition not being a valid name for someone born in 993 AD. In Scotland 993, they spoke Old English. Obviously, Ravenclaw (a combination of two post dark ages English words) was not her name, but a translation of her name. The OE word for night is nihthræfn, while the OE word for claw is clifer. Her name was likely Nihthræfnclifer, or somesuch, meaning Nightclaw. Thaddeus' answer stands just fine as a post-Dark Age English ideologic translation of Nihthræfnclifer.
– Gabe Willard
Dec 8 '12 at 22:32
2
Raven descends from the same OE word, as does night. Both would be valid translations, but Raven is closer to the interpretation "dark" as opposed to the possible "time period" interpretation.
– Gabe Willard
Dec 8 '12 at 22:34
8
8
Her name was Ravenclaw. It has nothing to do with house colors. It is merely a naming convention, nothing more. The bird on the standard is most likely an eagle since ravens were more associated with carrion birds. So people are confusing her name with the bird, believing there should be a raven on the standard, not an eagle. Familiarity with heraldry helps understand how this misunderstanding could take place.
– Thaddeus Howze♦
Dec 8 '12 at 20:23
Her name was Ravenclaw. It has nothing to do with house colors. It is merely a naming convention, nothing more. The bird on the standard is most likely an eagle since ravens were more associated with carrion birds. So people are confusing her name with the bird, believing there should be a raven on the standard, not an eagle. Familiarity with heraldry helps understand how this misunderstanding could take place.
– Thaddeus Howze♦
Dec 8 '12 at 20:23
1
1
Well, I get what you're saying. In Dason's answer, though, Martha says the opposite about heraldry, citing a practice called "punning" which does associate an animal with a name if possible. Forget what I said about the house colors -- I was responding to your comments about the color of the talons, but it's irrelevant to the issue of heraldry, which I think is more at issue. :)
– Slytherincess
Dec 8 '12 at 20:41
Well, I get what you're saying. In Dason's answer, though, Martha says the opposite about heraldry, citing a practice called "punning" which does associate an animal with a name if possible. Forget what I said about the house colors -- I was responding to your comments about the color of the talons, but it's irrelevant to the issue of heraldry, which I think is more at issue. :)
– Slytherincess
Dec 8 '12 at 20:41
3
3
A book written by a modern writer creating a fictional universe overlaying thousands of years of history in a rather lackadaisical and unsystematic fashion and you find MY answer deeply unsatisfying? OED first reference for the English word is 17th century. Earlier versions of the word exist in French and Latin as well, with differing meanings. Punning may also be responsible for those changes as well.
– Thaddeus Howze♦
Dec 8 '12 at 21:24
A book written by a modern writer creating a fictional universe overlaying thousands of years of history in a rather lackadaisical and unsystematic fashion and you find MY answer deeply unsatisfying? OED first reference for the English word is 17th century. Earlier versions of the word exist in French and Latin as well, with differing meanings. Punning may also be responsible for those changes as well.
– Thaddeus Howze♦
Dec 8 '12 at 21:24
7
7
@Micah I find it amusing you criticize Thaddeus for an English definition not being a valid name for someone born in 993 AD. In Scotland 993, they spoke Old English. Obviously, Ravenclaw (a combination of two post dark ages English words) was not her name, but a translation of her name. The OE word for night is nihthræfn, while the OE word for claw is clifer. Her name was likely Nihthræfnclifer, or somesuch, meaning Nightclaw. Thaddeus' answer stands just fine as a post-Dark Age English ideologic translation of Nihthræfnclifer.
– Gabe Willard
Dec 8 '12 at 22:32
@Micah I find it amusing you criticize Thaddeus for an English definition not being a valid name for someone born in 993 AD. In Scotland 993, they spoke Old English. Obviously, Ravenclaw (a combination of two post dark ages English words) was not her name, but a translation of her name. The OE word for night is nihthræfn, while the OE word for claw is clifer. Her name was likely Nihthræfnclifer, or somesuch, meaning Nightclaw. Thaddeus' answer stands just fine as a post-Dark Age English ideologic translation of Nihthræfnclifer.
– Gabe Willard
Dec 8 '12 at 22:32
2
2
Raven descends from the same OE word, as does night. Both would be valid translations, but Raven is closer to the interpretation "dark" as opposed to the possible "time period" interpretation.
– Gabe Willard
Dec 8 '12 at 22:34
Raven descends from the same OE word, as does night. Both would be valid translations, but Raven is closer to the interpretation "dark" as opposed to the possible "time period" interpretation.
– Gabe Willard
Dec 8 '12 at 22:34
|
show 2 more comments
The Ravenclaw house crest shows an eagle, according to Pottermore, because eagles soar where others cannot climb.
This is the official eagle image for Ravenclaw from Pottermore:
I would pay no attention to the fan-made house crests, aside from enjoying them as fun examples of fan art.
edited 6 hours ago
Stormblessed
714321
answered Dec 8 '12 at 11:24
SlytherincessSlytherincess
119k105614856
3
that is kinda funny because a raven can soar just as good as an eagle... now if they put a turkey vulture on the crest, that would be a different story.
– KennyPeanuts
Dec 8 '12 at 16:11
9
+1 I'm surprised it's not a raven. Ravens (crows in general) are famed for their very exceptional intelligence so they would be the perfect animal for Ravenclaw. As for soaring where others cannot climb... I thought that kind of greatness belonged to Slytherin.
– commando
Dec 8 '12 at 17:20
1
@commando -- And if I recall correctly, don't ravens collect things? One might take that mean collecting little bits of knowledge here and there and spiriting them away. That kind of image sits well for me for Ravenclaw. Can't argue with you re: Slytherin ;) Thanks for the +1 :)
– Slytherincess
Dec 8 '12 at 20:34
2
The artists behind the Pottermore house crests shared their design process, and they call it an eagle, not a raven: insider.pottermore.com/2011/10/…
– alexwlchan
May 28 '14 at 9:58
3
@alexwlchan -- Which makes complete sense ... wait, it doesn't make sense ... !!!! :)
– Slytherincess
May 28 '14 at 17:18
|
show 4 more comments
The Ravenclaw house crest shows an eagle, according to Pottermore, because eagles soar where others cannot climb.
This is the official eagle image for Ravenclaw from Pottermore:
I would pay no attention to the fan-made house crests, aside from enjoying them as fun examples of fan art.
edited 6 hours ago
Stormblessed
714321
answered Dec 8 '12 at 11:24
SlytherincessSlytherincess
119k105614856
3
that is kinda funny because a raven can soar just as good as an eagle... now if they put a turkey vulture on the crest, that would be a different story.
– KennyPeanuts
Dec 8 '12 at 16:11
9
+1 I'm surprised it's not a raven. Ravens (crows in general) are famed for their very exceptional intelligence so they would be the perfect animal for Ravenclaw. As for soaring where others cannot climb... I thought that kind of greatness belonged to Slytherin.
– commando
Dec 8 '12 at 17:20
1
@commando -- And if I recall correctly, don't ravens collect things? One might take that mean collecting little bits of knowledge here and there and spiriting them away. That kind of image sits well for me for Ravenclaw. Can't argue with you re: Slytherin ;) Thanks for the +1 :)
– Slytherincess
Dec 8 '12 at 20:34
2
The artists behind the Pottermore house crests shared their design process, and they call it an eagle, not a raven: insider.pottermore.com/2011/10/…
– alexwlchan
May 28 '14 at 9:58
3
@alexwlchan -- Which makes complete sense ... wait, it doesn't make sense ... !!!! :)
– Slytherincess
May 28 '14 at 17:18
|
show 4 more comments
The Ravenclaw house crest shows an eagle, according to Pottermore, because eagles soar where others cannot climb.
This is the official eagle image for Ravenclaw from Pottermore:
I would pay no attention to the fan-made house crests, aside from enjoying them as fun examples of fan art.
edited 6 hours ago
Stormblessed
714321
answered Dec 8 '12 at 11:24
SlytherincessSlytherincess
119k105614856
The Ravenclaw house crest shows an eagle, according to Pottermore, because eagles soar where others cannot climb.
This is the official eagle image for Ravenclaw from Pottermore:
I would pay no attention to the fan-made house crests, aside from enjoying them as fun examples of fan art.
edited 6 hours ago
Stormblessed
714321
answered Dec 8 '12 at 11:24
SlytherincessSlytherincess
119k105614856
edited 6 hours ago
Stormblessed
714321
edited 6 hours ago
Stormblessed
714321
edited 6 hours ago
Stormblessed
714321
714321
answered Dec 8 '12 at 11:24
SlytherincessSlytherincess
119k105614856
answered Dec 8 '12 at 11:24
SlytherincessSlytherincess
119k105614856
answered Dec 8 '12 at 11:24
SlytherincessSlytherincess
119k105614856
119k105614856
3
that is kinda funny because a raven can soar just as good as an eagle... now if they put a turkey vulture on the crest, that would be a different story.
– KennyPeanuts
Dec 8 '12 at 16:11
9
+1 I'm surprised it's not a raven. Ravens (crows in general) are famed for their very exceptional intelligence so they would be the perfect animal for Ravenclaw. As for soaring where others cannot climb... I thought that kind of greatness belonged to Slytherin.
– commando
Dec 8 '12 at 17:20
1
@commando -- And if I recall correctly, don't ravens collect things? One might take that mean collecting little bits of knowledge here and there and spiriting them away. That kind of image sits well for me for Ravenclaw. Can't argue with you re: Slytherin ;) Thanks for the +1 :)
– Slytherincess
Dec 8 '12 at 20:34
2
The artists behind the Pottermore house crests shared their design process, and they call it an eagle, not a raven: insider.pottermore.com/2011/10/…
– alexwlchan
May 28 '14 at 9:58
3
@alexwlchan -- Which makes complete sense ... wait, it doesn't make sense ... !!!! :)
– Slytherincess
May 28 '14 at 17:18
|
show 4 more comments
3
that is kinda funny because a raven can soar just as good as an eagle... now if they put a turkey vulture on the crest, that would be a different story.
– KennyPeanuts
Dec 8 '12 at 16:11
9
+1 I'm surprised it's not a raven. Ravens (crows in general) are famed for their very exceptional intelligence so they would be the perfect animal for Ravenclaw. As for soaring where others cannot climb... I thought that kind of greatness belonged to Slytherin.
– commando
Dec 8 '12 at 17:20
1
@commando -- And if I recall correctly, don't ravens collect things? One might take that mean collecting little bits of knowledge here and there and spiriting them away. That kind of image sits well for me for Ravenclaw. Can't argue with you re: Slytherin ;) Thanks for the +1 :)
– Slytherincess
Dec 8 '12 at 20:34
2
The artists behind the Pottermore house crests shared their design process, and they call it an eagle, not a raven: insider.pottermore.com/2011/10/…
– alexwlchan
May 28 '14 at 9:58
3
@alexwlchan -- Which makes complete sense ... wait, it doesn't make sense ... !!!! :)
– Slytherincess
May 28 '14 at 17:18
3
3
that is kinda funny because a raven can soar just as good as an eagle... now if they put a turkey vulture on the crest, that would be a different story.
– KennyPeanuts
Dec 8 '12 at 16:11
that is kinda funny because a raven can soar just as good as an eagle... now if they put a turkey vulture on the crest, that would be a different story.
– KennyPeanuts
Dec 8 '12 at 16:11
9
9
+1 I'm surprised it's not a raven. Ravens (crows in general) are famed for their very exceptional intelligence so they would be the perfect animal for Ravenclaw. As for soaring where others cannot climb... I thought that kind of greatness belonged to Slytherin.
– commando
Dec 8 '12 at 17:20
+1 I'm surprised it's not a raven. Ravens (crows in general) are famed for their very exceptional intelligence so they would be the perfect animal for Ravenclaw. As for soaring where others cannot climb... I thought that kind of greatness belonged to Slytherin.
– commando
Dec 8 '12 at 17:20
1
1
@commando -- And if I recall correctly, don't ravens collect things? One might take that mean collecting little bits of knowledge here and there and spiriting them away. That kind of image sits well for me for Ravenclaw. Can't argue with you re: Slytherin ;) Thanks for the +1 :)
– Slytherincess
Dec 8 '12 at 20:34
@commando -- And if I recall correctly, don't ravens collect things? One might take that mean collecting little bits of knowledge here and there and spiriting them away. That kind of image sits well for me for Ravenclaw. Can't argue with you re: Slytherin ;) Thanks for the +1 :)
– Slytherincess
Dec 8 '12 at 20:34
2
2
The artists behind the Pottermore house crests shared their design process, and they call it an eagle, not a raven: insider.pottermore.com/2011/10/…
– alexwlchan
May 28 '14 at 9:58
The artists behind the Pottermore house crests shared their design process, and they call it an eagle, not a raven: insider.pottermore.com/2011/10/…
– alexwlchan
May 28 '14 at 9:58
3
3
@alexwlchan -- Which makes complete sense ... wait, it doesn't make sense ... !!!! :)
– Slytherincess
May 28 '14 at 17:18
@alexwlchan -- Which makes complete sense ... wait, it doesn't make sense ... !!!! :)
– Slytherincess
May 28 '14 at 17:18
|
show 4 more comments
Why should it show a raven? The house is named after Rowena Ravenclaw. Sure her name has "raven" in it but I see no reason that Ravenclaw should choose a raven to use as their symbol; just like I see no reason why Brazil should have a bra on their national flag (thankfully they have common sense as well and don't have a bra on their flag). The eagle is meant to represent that Ravenclaws "soar where others cannot climb" so there is meaning there. It doesn't seem to be in the nature of Ravenclaw to choose a raven solely because there is a raven in the house name unless there is other meaning they would wish to ascribe to that symbol.
answered Dec 8 '12 at 14:13
DasonDason
5,88684386
9
Heraldry has a concept called canting: alluding to or punning on the bearer's name. Thus, it would be totally normal for the Ravenclaw family to have a raven on their arms. In fact, if the arms had a bird on it that was not displayed (i.e. not definitely an eagle), then a herald would probably conclude that the bird is meant to be a raven, just based on the name. (This happens a lot in hastily-painted rolls of arms: about all you can tell from the picture is that it's a critter of some sort, and then you see that the name is Brock, so then you conclude that the critter is a badger.)
– Martha
Dec 8 '12 at 16:34
3
Sure. But saying "Ravenclaw's animal isn't a raven and that doesn't make sense" seems silly to me. You could allude to Ravenclaw's name by making the symbol a raven. Or you could use something that makes more sense that actual represents the house itself. It just seems to me that Rowena Ravenclaw would choose to use a symbol that she felt symbolized the house itself (and canon seems to back that up).
– Dason
Dec 8 '12 at 17:46
6
Except that heraldically speaking, it doesn't make sense: if there's an obvious cant available, its very surprising (to put it mildly) to not have that on the arms. And then to have something that is close-but-not-quite? That just smacks of "someone didn't study their heraldry".
– Martha
Dec 8 '12 at 19:32
6
And you're right: Gryffindor should have a gold griffin on their arms. Which is just more support for "someone didn't study their heraldry".
– Martha
Dec 8 '12 at 19:36
1
+1. If Ravenclaw thought that an eagle was more representative of her house (or herself) than a raven, she would put an eagle on her crest, thank you very much.
– Adamant
Oct 29 '16 at 5:23
add a comment |
Why should it show a raven? The house is named after Rowena Ravenclaw. Sure her name has "raven" in it but I see no reason that Ravenclaw should choose a raven to use as their symbol; just like I see no reason why Brazil should have a bra on their national flag (thankfully they have common sense as well and don't have a bra on their flag). The eagle is meant to represent that Ravenclaws "soar where others cannot climb" so there is meaning there. It doesn't seem to be in the nature of Ravenclaw to choose a raven solely because there is a raven in the house name unless there is other meaning they would wish to ascribe to that symbol.
answered Dec 8 '12 at 14:13
DasonDason
5,88684386
9
Heraldry has a concept called canting: alluding to or punning on the bearer's name. Thus, it would be totally normal for the Ravenclaw family to have a raven on their arms. In fact, if the arms had a bird on it that was not displayed (i.e. not definitely an eagle), then a herald would probably conclude that the bird is meant to be a raven, just based on the name. (This happens a lot in hastily-painted rolls of arms: about all you can tell from the picture is that it's a critter of some sort, and then you see that the name is Brock, so then you conclude that the critter is a badger.)
– Martha
Dec 8 '12 at 16:34
3
Sure. But saying "Ravenclaw's animal isn't a raven and that doesn't make sense" seems silly to me. You could allude to Ravenclaw's name by making the symbol a raven. Or you could use something that makes more sense that actual represents the house itself. It just seems to me that Rowena Ravenclaw would choose to use a symbol that she felt symbolized the house itself (and canon seems to back that up).
– Dason
Dec 8 '12 at 17:46
6
Except that heraldically speaking, it doesn't make sense: if there's an obvious cant available, its very surprising (to put it mildly) to not have that on the arms. And then to have something that is close-but-not-quite? That just smacks of "someone didn't study their heraldry".
– Martha
Dec 8 '12 at 19:32
6
And you're right: Gryffindor should have a gold griffin on their arms. Which is just more support for "someone didn't study their heraldry".
– Martha
Dec 8 '12 at 19:36
1
+1. If Ravenclaw thought that an eagle was more representative of her house (or herself) than a raven, she would put an eagle on her crest, thank you very much.
– Adamant
Oct 29 '16 at 5:23
add a comment |
Why should it show a raven? The house is named after Rowena Ravenclaw. Sure her name has "raven" in it but I see no reason that Ravenclaw should choose a raven to use as their symbol; just like I see no reason why Brazil should have a bra on their national flag (thankfully they have common sense as well and don't have a bra on their flag). The eagle is meant to represent that Ravenclaws "soar where others cannot climb" so there is meaning there. It doesn't seem to be in the nature of Ravenclaw to choose a raven solely because there is a raven in the house name unless there is other meaning they would wish to ascribe to that symbol.
answered Dec 8 '12 at 14:13
DasonDason
5,88684386
Why should it show a raven? The house is named after Rowena Ravenclaw. Sure her name has "raven" in it but I see no reason that Ravenclaw should choose a raven to use as their symbol; just like I see no reason why Brazil should have a bra on their national flag (thankfully they have common sense as well and don't have a bra on their flag). The eagle is meant to represent that Ravenclaws "soar where others cannot climb" so there is meaning there. It doesn't seem to be in the nature of Ravenclaw to choose a raven solely because there is a raven in the house name unless there is other meaning they would wish to ascribe to that symbol.
answered Dec 8 '12 at 14:13
DasonDason
5,88684386
answered Dec 8 '12 at 14:13
DasonDason
5,88684386
answered Dec 8 '12 at 14:13
DasonDason
5,88684386
answered Dec 8 '12 at 14:13
DasonDason
5,88684386
5,88684386
9
Heraldry has a concept called canting: alluding to or punning on the bearer's name. Thus, it would be totally normal for the Ravenclaw family to have a raven on their arms. In fact, if the arms had a bird on it that was not displayed (i.e. not definitely an eagle), then a herald would probably conclude that the bird is meant to be a raven, just based on the name. (This happens a lot in hastily-painted rolls of arms: about all you can tell from the picture is that it's a critter of some sort, and then you see that the name is Brock, so then you conclude that the critter is a badger.)
– Martha
Dec 8 '12 at 16:34
3
Sure. But saying "Ravenclaw's animal isn't a raven and that doesn't make sense" seems silly to me. You could allude to Ravenclaw's name by making the symbol a raven. Or you could use something that makes more sense that actual represents the house itself. It just seems to me that Rowena Ravenclaw would choose to use a symbol that she felt symbolized the house itself (and canon seems to back that up).
– Dason
Dec 8 '12 at 17:46
6
Except that heraldically speaking, it doesn't make sense: if there's an obvious cant available, its very surprising (to put it mildly) to not have that on the arms. And then to have something that is close-but-not-quite? That just smacks of "someone didn't study their heraldry".
– Martha
Dec 8 '12 at 19:32
6
And you're right: Gryffindor should have a gold griffin on their arms. Which is just more support for "someone didn't study their heraldry".
– Martha
Dec 8 '12 at 19:36
1
+1. If Ravenclaw thought that an eagle was more representative of her house (or herself) than a raven, she would put an eagle on her crest, thank you very much.
– Adamant
Oct 29 '16 at 5:23
add a comment |
9
Heraldry has a concept called canting: alluding to or punning on the bearer's name. Thus, it would be totally normal for the Ravenclaw family to have a raven on their arms. In fact, if the arms had a bird on it that was not displayed (i.e. not definitely an eagle), then a herald would probably conclude that the bird is meant to be a raven, just based on the name. (This happens a lot in hastily-painted rolls of arms: about all you can tell from the picture is that it's a critter of some sort, and then you see that the name is Brock, so then you conclude that the critter is a badger.)
– Martha
Dec 8 '12 at 16:34
3
Sure. But saying "Ravenclaw's animal isn't a raven and that doesn't make sense" seems silly to me. You could allude to Ravenclaw's name by making the symbol a raven. Or you could use something that makes more sense that actual represents the house itself. It just seems to me that Rowena Ravenclaw would choose to use a symbol that she felt symbolized the house itself (and canon seems to back that up).
– Dason
Dec 8 '12 at 17:46
6
Except that heraldically speaking, it doesn't make sense: if there's an obvious cant available, its very surprising (to put it mildly) to not have that on the arms. And then to have something that is close-but-not-quite? That just smacks of "someone didn't study their heraldry".
– Martha
Dec 8 '12 at 19:32
6
And you're right: Gryffindor should have a gold griffin on their arms. Which is just more support for "someone didn't study their heraldry".
– Martha
Dec 8 '12 at 19:36
1
+1. If Ravenclaw thought that an eagle was more representative of her house (or herself) than a raven, she would put an eagle on her crest, thank you very much.
– Adamant
Oct 29 '16 at 5:23
9
9
Heraldry has a concept called canting: alluding to or punning on the bearer's name. Thus, it would be totally normal for the Ravenclaw family to have a raven on their arms. In fact, if the arms had a bird on it that was not displayed (i.e. not definitely an eagle), then a herald would probably conclude that the bird is meant to be a raven, just based on the name. (This happens a lot in hastily-painted rolls of arms: about all you can tell from the picture is that it's a critter of some sort, and then you see that the name is Brock, so then you conclude that the critter is a badger.)
– Martha
Dec 8 '12 at 16:34
Heraldry has a concept called canting: alluding to or punning on the bearer's name. Thus, it would be totally normal for the Ravenclaw family to have a raven on their arms. In fact, if the arms had a bird on it that was not displayed (i.e. not definitely an eagle), then a herald would probably conclude that the bird is meant to be a raven, just based on the name. (This happens a lot in hastily-painted rolls of arms: about all you can tell from the picture is that it's a critter of some sort, and then you see that the name is Brock, so then you conclude that the critter is a badger.)
– Martha
Dec 8 '12 at 16:34
3
3
Sure. But saying "Ravenclaw's animal isn't a raven and that doesn't make sense" seems silly to me. You could allude to Ravenclaw's name by making the symbol a raven. Or you could use something that makes more sense that actual represents the house itself. It just seems to me that Rowena Ravenclaw would choose to use a symbol that she felt symbolized the house itself (and canon seems to back that up).
– Dason
Dec 8 '12 at 17:46
Sure. But saying "Ravenclaw's animal isn't a raven and that doesn't make sense" seems silly to me. You could allude to Ravenclaw's name by making the symbol a raven. Or you could use something that makes more sense that actual represents the house itself. It just seems to me that Rowena Ravenclaw would choose to use a symbol that she felt symbolized the house itself (and canon seems to back that up).
– Dason
Dec 8 '12 at 17:46
6
6
Except that heraldically speaking, it doesn't make sense: if there's an obvious cant available, its very surprising (to put it mildly) to not have that on the arms. And then to have something that is close-but-not-quite? That just smacks of "someone didn't study their heraldry".
– Martha
Dec 8 '12 at 19:32
Except that heraldically speaking, it doesn't make sense: if there's an obvious cant available, its very surprising (to put it mildly) to not have that on the arms. And then to have something that is close-but-not-quite? That just smacks of "someone didn't study their heraldry".
– Martha
Dec 8 '12 at 19:32
6
6
And you're right: Gryffindor should have a gold griffin on their arms. Which is just more support for "someone didn't study their heraldry".
– Martha
Dec 8 '12 at 19:36
And you're right: Gryffindor should have a gold griffin on their arms. Which is just more support for "someone didn't study their heraldry".
– Martha
Dec 8 '12 at 19:36
1
1
+1. If Ravenclaw thought that an eagle was more representative of her house (or herself) than a raven, she would put an eagle on her crest, thank you very much.
– Adamant
Oct 29 '16 at 5:23
+1. If Ravenclaw thought that an eagle was more representative of her house (or herself) than a raven, she would put an eagle on her crest, thank you very much.
– Adamant
Oct 29 '16 at 5:23
add a comment |
Ravenclaw's symbol is an eagle. It should not be a raven just because the founder for whom the house was named, Rowena Ravenclaw, has that bird in her name. To demonstrate, no one ever says that the symbol of Gryffindor should be a gryffin instead of a lion. Why not? Gryffin is in the name Gryffindor, isn't it?
answered Jun 23 '16 at 20:52
Peri Dreznick FisherPeri Dreznick Fisher
211
add a comment |
Ravenclaw's symbol is an eagle. It should not be a raven just because the founder for whom the house was named, Rowena Ravenclaw, has that bird in her name. To demonstrate, no one ever says that the symbol of Gryffindor should be a gryffin instead of a lion. Why not? Gryffin is in the name Gryffindor, isn't it?
answered Jun 23 '16 at 20:52
Peri Dreznick FisherPeri Dreznick Fisher
211
add a comment |
Ravenclaw's symbol is an eagle. It should not be a raven just because the founder for whom the house was named, Rowena Ravenclaw, has that bird in her name. To demonstrate, no one ever says that the symbol of Gryffindor should be a gryffin instead of a lion. Why not? Gryffin is in the name Gryffindor, isn't it?
answered Jun 23 '16 at 20:52
Peri Dreznick FisherPeri Dreznick Fisher
211
Ravenclaw's symbol is an eagle. It should not be a raven just because the founder for whom the house was named, Rowena Ravenclaw, has that bird in her name. To demonstrate, no one ever says that the symbol of Gryffindor should be a gryffin instead of a lion. Why not? Gryffin is in the name Gryffindor, isn't it?
answered Jun 23 '16 at 20:52
Peri Dreznick FisherPeri Dreznick Fisher
211
answered Jun 23 '16 at 20:52
Peri Dreznick FisherPeri Dreznick Fisher
211
answered Jun 23 '16 at 20:52
Peri Dreznick FisherPeri Dreznick Fisher
211
answered Jun 23 '16 at 20:52
Peri Dreznick FisherPeri Dreznick Fisher
211
211
add a comment |
add a comment |
In the French translation of Harry Potter the Ravenclaw house is named "Serdaigle" so is Rowena's last name. Serdaigle as "Serre d'aigle" which is the exact translation of "Eagle's claw" in French. If they had translate Ravenclaw in French it would have been "Serdecorbeau" which isn't really aesthetically flattering.
edited Aug 22 '17 at 20:27
Edlothiad
54.2k21287296
answered Aug 22 '17 at 20:21
Pure-bloodPure-blood
111
2
Interesting note, but this doesn't seem to answer the question of why the symbol is an eagle.
– Edlothiad
Aug 22 '17 at 20:28
add a comment |
In the French translation of Harry Potter the Ravenclaw house is named "Serdaigle" so is Rowena's last name. Serdaigle as "Serre d'aigle" which is the exact translation of "Eagle's claw" in French. If they had translate Ravenclaw in French it would have been "Serdecorbeau" which isn't really aesthetically flattering.
edited Aug 22 '17 at 20:27
Edlothiad
54.2k21287296
answered Aug 22 '17 at 20:21
Pure-bloodPure-blood
111
2
Interesting note, but this doesn't seem to answer the question of why the symbol is an eagle.
– Edlothiad
Aug 22 '17 at 20:28
add a comment |
In the French translation of Harry Potter the Ravenclaw house is named "Serdaigle" so is Rowena's last name. Serdaigle as "Serre d'aigle" which is the exact translation of "Eagle's claw" in French. If they had translate Ravenclaw in French it would have been "Serdecorbeau" which isn't really aesthetically flattering.
edited Aug 22 '17 at 20:27
Edlothiad
54.2k21287296
answered Aug 22 '17 at 20:21
Pure-bloodPure-blood
111
In the French translation of Harry Potter the Ravenclaw house is named "Serdaigle" so is Rowena's last name. Serdaigle as "Serre d'aigle" which is the exact translation of "Eagle's claw" in French. If they had translate Ravenclaw in French it would have been "Serdecorbeau" which isn't really aesthetically flattering.
edited Aug 22 '17 at 20:27
Edlothiad
54.2k21287296
answered Aug 22 '17 at 20:21
Pure-bloodPure-blood
111
edited Aug 22 '17 at 20:27
Edlothiad
54.2k21287296
edited Aug 22 '17 at 20:27
Edlothiad
54.2k21287296
edited Aug 22 '17 at 20:27
Edlothiad
54.2k21287296
54.2k21287296
answered Aug 22 '17 at 20:21
Pure-bloodPure-blood
111
answered Aug 22 '17 at 20:21
Pure-bloodPure-blood
111
answered Aug 22 '17 at 20:21
Pure-bloodPure-blood
111
111
2
Interesting note, but this doesn't seem to answer the question of why the symbol is an eagle.
– Edlothiad
Aug 22 '17 at 20:28
add a comment |
2
Interesting note, but this doesn't seem to answer the question of why the symbol is an eagle.
– Edlothiad
Aug 22 '17 at 20:28
2
2
Interesting note, but this doesn't seem to answer the question of why the symbol is an eagle.
– Edlothiad
Aug 22 '17 at 20:28
Interesting note, but this doesn't seem to answer the question of why the symbol is an eagle.
– Edlothiad
Aug 22 '17 at 20:28
add a comment |
If you're familiar with the Ravenclaw house, one thing that sets them apart is that they LIKE being different. Of course they wouldn't want a raven, just because their house founder's last name was Ravenclaw. That's just silly. C'mon guys, don't you remember Luna Lovegood...?
answered May 11 '16 at 13:14
DevinDevin
91
1
Luna Lovegood was weird on her own and irrespective of anybody's opinion. Can you provide any evidence that shows a house-wide desire to be different?
– T.J.L.
May 11 '16 at 13:39
add a comment |
If you're familiar with the Ravenclaw house, one thing that sets them apart is that they LIKE being different. Of course they wouldn't want a raven, just because their house founder's last name was Ravenclaw. That's just silly. C'mon guys, don't you remember Luna Lovegood...?
answered May 11 '16 at 13:14
DevinDevin
91
1
Luna Lovegood was weird on her own and irrespective of anybody's opinion. Can you provide any evidence that shows a house-wide desire to be different?
– T.J.L.
May 11 '16 at 13:39
add a comment |
If you're familiar with the Ravenclaw house, one thing that sets them apart is that they LIKE being different. Of course they wouldn't want a raven, just because their house founder's last name was Ravenclaw. That's just silly. C'mon guys, don't you remember Luna Lovegood...?
answered May 11 '16 at 13:14
DevinDevin
91
If you're familiar with the Ravenclaw house, one thing that sets them apart is that they LIKE being different. Of course they wouldn't want a raven, just because their house founder's last name was Ravenclaw. That's just silly. C'mon guys, don't you remember Luna Lovegood...?
answered May 11 '16 at 13:14
DevinDevin
91
answered May 11 '16 at 13:14
DevinDevin
91
answered May 11 '16 at 13:14
DevinDevin
91
answered May 11 '16 at 13:14
DevinDevin
91
91
1
Luna Lovegood was weird on her own and irrespective of anybody's opinion. Can you provide any evidence that shows a house-wide desire to be different?
– T.J.L.
May 11 '16 at 13:39
add a comment |
1
Luna Lovegood was weird on her own and irrespective of anybody's opinion. Can you provide any evidence that shows a house-wide desire to be different?
– T.J.L.
May 11 '16 at 13:39
1
1
Luna Lovegood was weird on her own and irrespective of anybody's opinion. Can you provide any evidence that shows a house-wide desire to be different?
– T.J.L.
May 11 '16 at 13:39
Luna Lovegood was weird on her own and irrespective of anybody's opinion. Can you provide any evidence that shows a house-wide desire to be different?
– T.J.L.
May 11 '16 at 13:39
add a comment |
According to Pottermore
"Our emblem is the eagle, which soars where others cannot climb;"
I think this is the reason why it's an eagle, not raven. I could be wrong.
answered Dec 17 '17 at 4:51
MaddieMaddie
1
add a comment |
According to Pottermore
"Our emblem is the eagle, which soars where others cannot climb;"
I think this is the reason why it's an eagle, not raven. I could be wrong.
answered Dec 17 '17 at 4:51
MaddieMaddie
1
add a comment |
According to Pottermore
"Our emblem is the eagle, which soars where others cannot climb;"
I think this is the reason why it's an eagle, not raven. I could be wrong.
answered Dec 17 '17 at 4:51
MaddieMaddie
1
According to Pottermore
"Our emblem is the eagle, which soars where others cannot climb;"
I think this is the reason why it's an eagle, not raven. I could be wrong.
answered Dec 17 '17 at 4:51
MaddieMaddie
1
answered Dec 17 '17 at 4:51
MaddieMaddie
1
answered Dec 17 '17 at 4:51
MaddieMaddie
1
answered Dec 17 '17 at 4:51
MaddieMaddie
1
1
add a comment |
add a comment |
Ravens are renown for their intelligence. Which makes perfect sense for the ravenclaw crest. Gryphons are part lion. Snakes slither. And badgers huff and puff. I say, don't read more into it - it's a book originally written for kids.
answered Oct 29 '16 at 3:27
Jeannie DaltonJeannie Dalton
1
2
That seems reasonable enough. Has anyone confirmed this, though?
– Adamant
Oct 29 '16 at 4:53
Except that canon says something completely different
– Matthew Barclay
Mar 11 '18 at 13:19
add a comment |
Ravens are renown for their intelligence. Which makes perfect sense for the ravenclaw crest. Gryphons are part lion. Snakes slither. And badgers huff and puff. I say, don't read more into it - it's a book originally written for kids.
answered Oct 29 '16 at 3:27
Jeannie DaltonJeannie Dalton
1
2
That seems reasonable enough. Has anyone confirmed this, though?
– Adamant
Oct 29 '16 at 4:53
Except that canon says something completely different
– Matthew Barclay
Mar 11 '18 at 13:19
add a comment |
Ravens are renown for their intelligence. Which makes perfect sense for the ravenclaw crest. Gryphons are part lion. Snakes slither. And badgers huff and puff. I say, don't read more into it - it's a book originally written for kids.
answered Oct 29 '16 at 3:27
Jeannie DaltonJeannie Dalton
1
Ravens are renown for their intelligence. Which makes perfect sense for the ravenclaw crest. Gryphons are part lion. Snakes slither. And badgers huff and puff. I say, don't read more into it - it's a book originally written for kids.
answered Oct 29 '16 at 3:27
Jeannie DaltonJeannie Dalton
1
answered Oct 29 '16 at 3:27
Jeannie DaltonJeannie Dalton
1
answered Oct 29 '16 at 3:27
Jeannie DaltonJeannie Dalton
1
answered Oct 29 '16 at 3:27
Jeannie DaltonJeannie Dalton
1
1
2
That seems reasonable enough. Has anyone confirmed this, though?
– Adamant
Oct 29 '16 at 4:53
Except that canon says something completely different
– Matthew Barclay
Mar 11 '18 at 13:19
add a comment |
2
That seems reasonable enough. Has anyone confirmed this, though?
– Adamant
Oct 29 '16 at 4:53
Except that canon says something completely different
– Matthew Barclay
Mar 11 '18 at 13:19
2
2
That seems reasonable enough. Has anyone confirmed this, though?
– Adamant
Oct 29 '16 at 4:53
That seems reasonable enough. Has anyone confirmed this, though?
– Adamant
Oct 29 '16 at 4:53
Except that canon says something completely different
– Matthew Barclay
Mar 11 '18 at 13:19
Except that canon says something completely different
– Matthew Barclay
Mar 11 '18 at 13:19
add a comment |
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1
It appears from @Slytherincess' answer that it is intended to be an eagle but I would also point out that the bird in the Pottermore-style crest does look a heck of a lot like all the ravens I have seen, and the bird in the book-style crest looks as much like a raven as it does an eagle (an angry chicken perhaps?).
– KennyPeanuts
Dec 8 '12 at 16:08
8
In heraldry, a raven and an eagle are not really distinguishable. Generally, if it's displayed (wings out to either side), then it's an eagle, and if it's in profile (especially if it has something in its beak, and/or if it's fuzzy), then it's a raven.
– Martha
Dec 8 '12 at 16:29
12
Gryffindor has a lion as their animal - why don't they have a griffin? Hufflepuff has a badger - why don't they have an out of breath puff?
– Dason
Dec 8 '12 at 17:47
8
@b_jonas - It's an eagle. Goblet of Fire says: blue with a bronze eagle for Ravenclaw in chapter 15, Beauxbatons and Durmstrang. :)
– Slytherincess
Dec 8 '12 at 20:49
2
@Pureferret - I really hope you will reconsider this answer, as apparently Pottermore has confirmed Ravenclaw's bird on the crest is an eagle, not a Raven. Your current chosen answer is incorrect. :)
– Slytherincess
May 28 '14 at 17:22