Is there a logarithm base for which the logarithm becomes an identity function?












8












$begingroup$


Is there a base $b$ such that:



$$log_b x = x $$



(The only one that comes to mind would be the invalid case of $log_1 1 = 1 $.)



I'm fairly certain the answer is no, but I can't find a clear justification for it.



(I don't have a strong mathematical background so an answer with the intuition would be much more helpful than any complex theorem proof.)










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  • 2




    $begingroup$
    The question body is not an appropriate place for any answer. If you want to summarize the other answers, do it as an answer. Make it community wiki if you don't want to feel like stealing credit.
    $endgroup$
    – Nij
    23 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Good point, I didn't know I could answer my own question. I'll fix it, the accepted answer shouldn't lose visibility with this text added a posteriori. I don't feel however as stealing credit from an answer I've accepted and whose author I'm mentioning at the beginning of the text.
    $endgroup$
    – schomatis
    23 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Changing the base of the logarithm just scales it.
    $endgroup$
    – user76284
    35 mins ago
















8












$begingroup$


Is there a base $b$ such that:



$$log_b x = x $$



(The only one that comes to mind would be the invalid case of $log_1 1 = 1 $.)



I'm fairly certain the answer is no, but I can't find a clear justification for it.



(I don't have a strong mathematical background so an answer with the intuition would be much more helpful than any complex theorem proof.)










share|cite|improve this question









New contributor




schomatis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    The question body is not an appropriate place for any answer. If you want to summarize the other answers, do it as an answer. Make it community wiki if you don't want to feel like stealing credit.
    $endgroup$
    – Nij
    23 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Good point, I didn't know I could answer my own question. I'll fix it, the accepted answer shouldn't lose visibility with this text added a posteriori. I don't feel however as stealing credit from an answer I've accepted and whose author I'm mentioning at the beginning of the text.
    $endgroup$
    – schomatis
    23 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Changing the base of the logarithm just scales it.
    $endgroup$
    – user76284
    35 mins ago














8












8








8


2



$begingroup$


Is there a base $b$ such that:



$$log_b x = x $$



(The only one that comes to mind would be the invalid case of $log_1 1 = 1 $.)



I'm fairly certain the answer is no, but I can't find a clear justification for it.



(I don't have a strong mathematical background so an answer with the intuition would be much more helpful than any complex theorem proof.)










share|cite|improve this question









New contributor




schomatis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$




Is there a base $b$ such that:



$$log_b x = x $$



(The only one that comes to mind would be the invalid case of $log_1 1 = 1 $.)



I'm fairly certain the answer is no, but I can't find a clear justification for it.



(I don't have a strong mathematical background so an answer with the intuition would be much more helpful than any complex theorem proof.)







logarithms






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New contributor




schomatis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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share|cite|improve this question









New contributor




schomatis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited 23 hours ago







schomatis













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asked yesterday









schomatisschomatis

857




857




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schomatis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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Check out our Code of Conduct.








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    The question body is not an appropriate place for any answer. If you want to summarize the other answers, do it as an answer. Make it community wiki if you don't want to feel like stealing credit.
    $endgroup$
    – Nij
    23 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Good point, I didn't know I could answer my own question. I'll fix it, the accepted answer shouldn't lose visibility with this text added a posteriori. I don't feel however as stealing credit from an answer I've accepted and whose author I'm mentioning at the beginning of the text.
    $endgroup$
    – schomatis
    23 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Changing the base of the logarithm just scales it.
    $endgroup$
    – user76284
    35 mins ago














  • 2




    $begingroup$
    The question body is not an appropriate place for any answer. If you want to summarize the other answers, do it as an answer. Make it community wiki if you don't want to feel like stealing credit.
    $endgroup$
    – Nij
    23 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Good point, I didn't know I could answer my own question. I'll fix it, the accepted answer shouldn't lose visibility with this text added a posteriori. I don't feel however as stealing credit from an answer I've accepted and whose author I'm mentioning at the beginning of the text.
    $endgroup$
    – schomatis
    23 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Changing the base of the logarithm just scales it.
    $endgroup$
    – user76284
    35 mins ago








2




2




$begingroup$
The question body is not an appropriate place for any answer. If you want to summarize the other answers, do it as an answer. Make it community wiki if you don't want to feel like stealing credit.
$endgroup$
– Nij
23 hours ago




$begingroup$
The question body is not an appropriate place for any answer. If you want to summarize the other answers, do it as an answer. Make it community wiki if you don't want to feel like stealing credit.
$endgroup$
– Nij
23 hours ago












$begingroup$
Good point, I didn't know I could answer my own question. I'll fix it, the accepted answer shouldn't lose visibility with this text added a posteriori. I don't feel however as stealing credit from an answer I've accepted and whose author I'm mentioning at the beginning of the text.
$endgroup$
– schomatis
23 hours ago




$begingroup$
Good point, I didn't know I could answer my own question. I'll fix it, the accepted answer shouldn't lose visibility with this text added a posteriori. I don't feel however as stealing credit from an answer I've accepted and whose author I'm mentioning at the beginning of the text.
$endgroup$
– schomatis
23 hours ago












$begingroup$
Changing the base of the logarithm just scales it.
$endgroup$
– user76284
35 mins ago




$begingroup$
Changing the base of the logarithm just scales it.
$endgroup$
– user76284
35 mins ago










7 Answers
7






active

oldest

votes


















36












$begingroup$

For a function to be a logarithm, it should satisfy the law of logarithms:
$log ab = log a + log b$, for $a,b gt 0$.
If it were the identity function, this would become $ab = a + b$, which clearly is not always true.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$





















    12












    $begingroup$

    Note that
    $$log_b x=xiff b^x=xiff b=sqrt[x]{x}.$$
    Since $sqrt[x]{x}$ is not a constant function, the relation cannot hold for all $x$.



    But it can be true for some particular $x$. For example $b=sqrt{2}$ and we have
    $$log_{sqrt{2}}2=2.$$






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$





















      7












      $begingroup$

      No, it can't. For any base $b$, there is some real constant $C$, s.t.
      $$
      log_b x = C ln x
      $$

      If it were that this logarithm is identity function, then natural logarithm would be just $x/C$, which is clearly false.






      share|cite|improve this answer











      $endgroup$













      • $begingroup$
        If log_b X = C ln x and log_b is the identity function, then log_b x = x = C ln x ==> ln x = x/C .
        $endgroup$
        – Adam
        10 hours ago








      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Further, this shows that the identity function is not even any sort of limit of logarithm functions.
        $endgroup$
        – R..
        4 hours ago



















      5












      $begingroup$

      If $b^k = k$ for all $k$ then



      $(b^k)^m = b^{km}= k^m=km$ for all $k$ and $m$.



      ....



      Actually the heck with it: $log_b 1 = 0$ always and $1 ne 0$.



      Likewise $log_b b = 1$ and presumably $b ne 1$






      share|cite|improve this answer











      $endgroup$





















        4












        $begingroup$

        In general
        $$log_b a=c$$
        is the same as
        $$b^c=a$$
        so you can leave logs behind and focus on solutions to
        $$b^x=x$$






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$





















          3












          $begingroup$

          I'm expanding here the accepted answer by FredH in the way I interpreted it, putting it in layman's terms as much as possible (according to my very basic mathematical knowledge). I'm also drawing from other answers posted, so thanks everyone who took the time!



          First, as suggested, instead of talking in terms of logarithms I'll rephrase the question as an exponentiation (which seems simpler to grasp). In that case we would be looking for a base $b$ that had an exponent that would be the same as its result:



          $$ b^x=x $$



          In this explanation I'll invert the terms calling the exponent the input and the result of the exponentiation the output (in the logarithm it's actually the other way around since it is the inverse function, but since we're talking about an identity function the relationship between the input and output is symmetrical).



          An identity function, and hence a linear function, will have its output growing at the same rate as the input (called both $x$ here). Even if there's a particular $b$ and a particular $x$ that holds the equality (which there are, as shown in the examples of other answers), when $x$ starts growing, say, one unit at a time, in the left-hand side (LHS) it would mean multiplying the already $b^x$ by another $b$



          $$ b^{x+1} = x + 1 iff b^x * b = x + 1 $$



          so the LHS would be expanding $b$ times (multiplication) while the output is always growing by a fixed constant of $1$ (addition).



          I originally thought of the invalid logarithm base of $1$, but not even $1$ would work for every $x$, it would keep the LHS steady while the output changes. If $b$ is bigger than one, no matter how close to $1$ it is, repeatedly multiplying by it would cause the LHS to, at some point, start (and keep) growing in each iteration by more than just $1$, surpassing the pace of the output (which will always grow at same rate). Worse yet, if $b$ is smaller than one it would mean that the LHS would start getting smaller (while the output grows).



          As succinctly expressed in the answers, the identity function, or any linear function for that matter, won't fit a logarithm no matter the chosen base, since it would be like trying to fit a multiplication into an addition.






          share|cite|improve this answer








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            1












            $begingroup$

            Logically, $y=x$ is a straight line, $y=log_b x$ is not (otherwise why would we call it non-linear function) so they cannot coincide for all $x$.



            Suppose $y=log_b x$ is a straight line the same as $y=x$ then for any two $x_1$ and $x_2$ such as $x_2=x_1+1$ we should have for the slope: $1=frac{log_b x_2-log_b x_1}{x_2-x_1}=log_b x_2-log_b x_1=log_b frac{x_2}{x_1} rightarrow frac{x_2}{x_1}=b$ which leads to a contradiction ($frac{4}{3}=b, frac{5}{4}=b$).






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$









            • 2




              $begingroup$
              And why is $y=log_b x$ not a straight line?
              $endgroup$
              – Henning Makholm
              yesterday






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              @HenningMakholm: because it does not have a constant slope (derivative will be $cover x$ where $c$ is a constant but $x$ is obviously not)
              $endgroup$
              – Vasya
              yesterday










            • $begingroup$
              $frac0x$ is a constant function on a useful subset of $mathbb R$.
              $endgroup$
              – Henning Makholm
              yesterday








            • 2




              $begingroup$
              @HenningMakholm: we both know that $c ne 0$ in this case, I was trying to explain it at the simplest level for the original poster.
              $endgroup$
              – Vasya
              23 hours ago






            • 2




              $begingroup$
              The OP was asking for an argument, not for a "simplest level" that amounts to an unsupported assertion of the same thing he wanted a proof of.
              $endgroup$
              – Henning Makholm
              16 hours ago













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            7 Answers
            7






            active

            oldest

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            7 Answers
            7






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            36












            $begingroup$

            For a function to be a logarithm, it should satisfy the law of logarithms:
            $log ab = log a + log b$, for $a,b gt 0$.
            If it were the identity function, this would become $ab = a + b$, which clearly is not always true.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$


















              36












              $begingroup$

              For a function to be a logarithm, it should satisfy the law of logarithms:
              $log ab = log a + log b$, for $a,b gt 0$.
              If it were the identity function, this would become $ab = a + b$, which clearly is not always true.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$
















                36












                36








                36





                $begingroup$

                For a function to be a logarithm, it should satisfy the law of logarithms:
                $log ab = log a + log b$, for $a,b gt 0$.
                If it were the identity function, this would become $ab = a + b$, which clearly is not always true.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$



                For a function to be a logarithm, it should satisfy the law of logarithms:
                $log ab = log a + log b$, for $a,b gt 0$.
                If it were the identity function, this would become $ab = a + b$, which clearly is not always true.







                share|cite|improve this answer












                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer










                answered yesterday









                FredHFredH

                1,463713




                1,463713























                    12












                    $begingroup$

                    Note that
                    $$log_b x=xiff b^x=xiff b=sqrt[x]{x}.$$
                    Since $sqrt[x]{x}$ is not a constant function, the relation cannot hold for all $x$.



                    But it can be true for some particular $x$. For example $b=sqrt{2}$ and we have
                    $$log_{sqrt{2}}2=2.$$






                    share|cite|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$


















                      12












                      $begingroup$

                      Note that
                      $$log_b x=xiff b^x=xiff b=sqrt[x]{x}.$$
                      Since $sqrt[x]{x}$ is not a constant function, the relation cannot hold for all $x$.



                      But it can be true for some particular $x$. For example $b=sqrt{2}$ and we have
                      $$log_{sqrt{2}}2=2.$$






                      share|cite|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$
















                        12












                        12








                        12





                        $begingroup$

                        Note that
                        $$log_b x=xiff b^x=xiff b=sqrt[x]{x}.$$
                        Since $sqrt[x]{x}$ is not a constant function, the relation cannot hold for all $x$.



                        But it can be true for some particular $x$. For example $b=sqrt{2}$ and we have
                        $$log_{sqrt{2}}2=2.$$






                        share|cite|improve this answer









                        $endgroup$



                        Note that
                        $$log_b x=xiff b^x=xiff b=sqrt[x]{x}.$$
                        Since $sqrt[x]{x}$ is not a constant function, the relation cannot hold for all $x$.



                        But it can be true for some particular $x$. For example $b=sqrt{2}$ and we have
                        $$log_{sqrt{2}}2=2.$$







                        share|cite|improve this answer












                        share|cite|improve this answer



                        share|cite|improve this answer










                        answered yesterday









                        Eclipse SunEclipse Sun

                        7,7901438




                        7,7901438























                            7












                            $begingroup$

                            No, it can't. For any base $b$, there is some real constant $C$, s.t.
                            $$
                            log_b x = C ln x
                            $$

                            If it were that this logarithm is identity function, then natural logarithm would be just $x/C$, which is clearly false.






                            share|cite|improve this answer











                            $endgroup$













                            • $begingroup$
                              If log_b X = C ln x and log_b is the identity function, then log_b x = x = C ln x ==> ln x = x/C .
                              $endgroup$
                              – Adam
                              10 hours ago








                            • 1




                              $begingroup$
                              Further, this shows that the identity function is not even any sort of limit of logarithm functions.
                              $endgroup$
                              – R..
                              4 hours ago
















                            7












                            $begingroup$

                            No, it can't. For any base $b$, there is some real constant $C$, s.t.
                            $$
                            log_b x = C ln x
                            $$

                            If it were that this logarithm is identity function, then natural logarithm would be just $x/C$, which is clearly false.






                            share|cite|improve this answer











                            $endgroup$













                            • $begingroup$
                              If log_b X = C ln x and log_b is the identity function, then log_b x = x = C ln x ==> ln x = x/C .
                              $endgroup$
                              – Adam
                              10 hours ago








                            • 1




                              $begingroup$
                              Further, this shows that the identity function is not even any sort of limit of logarithm functions.
                              $endgroup$
                              – R..
                              4 hours ago














                            7












                            7








                            7





                            $begingroup$

                            No, it can't. For any base $b$, there is some real constant $C$, s.t.
                            $$
                            log_b x = C ln x
                            $$

                            If it were that this logarithm is identity function, then natural logarithm would be just $x/C$, which is clearly false.






                            share|cite|improve this answer











                            $endgroup$



                            No, it can't. For any base $b$, there is some real constant $C$, s.t.
                            $$
                            log_b x = C ln x
                            $$

                            If it were that this logarithm is identity function, then natural logarithm would be just $x/C$, which is clearly false.







                            share|cite|improve this answer














                            share|cite|improve this answer



                            share|cite|improve this answer








                            edited 10 hours ago

























                            answered yesterday









                            enedilenedil

                            1,434620




                            1,434620












                            • $begingroup$
                              If log_b X = C ln x and log_b is the identity function, then log_b x = x = C ln x ==> ln x = x/C .
                              $endgroup$
                              – Adam
                              10 hours ago








                            • 1




                              $begingroup$
                              Further, this shows that the identity function is not even any sort of limit of logarithm functions.
                              $endgroup$
                              – R..
                              4 hours ago


















                            • $begingroup$
                              If log_b X = C ln x and log_b is the identity function, then log_b x = x = C ln x ==> ln x = x/C .
                              $endgroup$
                              – Adam
                              10 hours ago








                            • 1




                              $begingroup$
                              Further, this shows that the identity function is not even any sort of limit of logarithm functions.
                              $endgroup$
                              – R..
                              4 hours ago
















                            $begingroup$
                            If log_b X = C ln x and log_b is the identity function, then log_b x = x = C ln x ==> ln x = x/C .
                            $endgroup$
                            – Adam
                            10 hours ago






                            $begingroup$
                            If log_b X = C ln x and log_b is the identity function, then log_b x = x = C ln x ==> ln x = x/C .
                            $endgroup$
                            – Adam
                            10 hours ago






                            1




                            1




                            $begingroup$
                            Further, this shows that the identity function is not even any sort of limit of logarithm functions.
                            $endgroup$
                            – R..
                            4 hours ago




                            $begingroup$
                            Further, this shows that the identity function is not even any sort of limit of logarithm functions.
                            $endgroup$
                            – R..
                            4 hours ago











                            5












                            $begingroup$

                            If $b^k = k$ for all $k$ then



                            $(b^k)^m = b^{km}= k^m=km$ for all $k$ and $m$.



                            ....



                            Actually the heck with it: $log_b 1 = 0$ always and $1 ne 0$.



                            Likewise $log_b b = 1$ and presumably $b ne 1$






                            share|cite|improve this answer











                            $endgroup$


















                              5












                              $begingroup$

                              If $b^k = k$ for all $k$ then



                              $(b^k)^m = b^{km}= k^m=km$ for all $k$ and $m$.



                              ....



                              Actually the heck with it: $log_b 1 = 0$ always and $1 ne 0$.



                              Likewise $log_b b = 1$ and presumably $b ne 1$






                              share|cite|improve this answer











                              $endgroup$
















                                5












                                5








                                5





                                $begingroup$

                                If $b^k = k$ for all $k$ then



                                $(b^k)^m = b^{km}= k^m=km$ for all $k$ and $m$.



                                ....



                                Actually the heck with it: $log_b 1 = 0$ always and $1 ne 0$.



                                Likewise $log_b b = 1$ and presumably $b ne 1$






                                share|cite|improve this answer











                                $endgroup$



                                If $b^k = k$ for all $k$ then



                                $(b^k)^m = b^{km}= k^m=km$ for all $k$ and $m$.



                                ....



                                Actually the heck with it: $log_b 1 = 0$ always and $1 ne 0$.



                                Likewise $log_b b = 1$ and presumably $b ne 1$







                                share|cite|improve this answer














                                share|cite|improve this answer



                                share|cite|improve this answer








                                edited yesterday

























                                answered yesterday









                                fleabloodfleablood

                                72k22687




                                72k22687























                                    4












                                    $begingroup$

                                    In general
                                    $$log_b a=c$$
                                    is the same as
                                    $$b^c=a$$
                                    so you can leave logs behind and focus on solutions to
                                    $$b^x=x$$






                                    share|cite|improve this answer









                                    $endgroup$


















                                      4












                                      $begingroup$

                                      In general
                                      $$log_b a=c$$
                                      is the same as
                                      $$b^c=a$$
                                      so you can leave logs behind and focus on solutions to
                                      $$b^x=x$$






                                      share|cite|improve this answer









                                      $endgroup$
















                                        4












                                        4








                                        4





                                        $begingroup$

                                        In general
                                        $$log_b a=c$$
                                        is the same as
                                        $$b^c=a$$
                                        so you can leave logs behind and focus on solutions to
                                        $$b^x=x$$






                                        share|cite|improve this answer









                                        $endgroup$



                                        In general
                                        $$log_b a=c$$
                                        is the same as
                                        $$b^c=a$$
                                        so you can leave logs behind and focus on solutions to
                                        $$b^x=x$$







                                        share|cite|improve this answer












                                        share|cite|improve this answer



                                        share|cite|improve this answer










                                        answered yesterday









                                        Martin HansenMartin Hansen

                                        21313




                                        21313























                                            3












                                            $begingroup$

                                            I'm expanding here the accepted answer by FredH in the way I interpreted it, putting it in layman's terms as much as possible (according to my very basic mathematical knowledge). I'm also drawing from other answers posted, so thanks everyone who took the time!



                                            First, as suggested, instead of talking in terms of logarithms I'll rephrase the question as an exponentiation (which seems simpler to grasp). In that case we would be looking for a base $b$ that had an exponent that would be the same as its result:



                                            $$ b^x=x $$



                                            In this explanation I'll invert the terms calling the exponent the input and the result of the exponentiation the output (in the logarithm it's actually the other way around since it is the inverse function, but since we're talking about an identity function the relationship between the input and output is symmetrical).



                                            An identity function, and hence a linear function, will have its output growing at the same rate as the input (called both $x$ here). Even if there's a particular $b$ and a particular $x$ that holds the equality (which there are, as shown in the examples of other answers), when $x$ starts growing, say, one unit at a time, in the left-hand side (LHS) it would mean multiplying the already $b^x$ by another $b$



                                            $$ b^{x+1} = x + 1 iff b^x * b = x + 1 $$



                                            so the LHS would be expanding $b$ times (multiplication) while the output is always growing by a fixed constant of $1$ (addition).



                                            I originally thought of the invalid logarithm base of $1$, but not even $1$ would work for every $x$, it would keep the LHS steady while the output changes. If $b$ is bigger than one, no matter how close to $1$ it is, repeatedly multiplying by it would cause the LHS to, at some point, start (and keep) growing in each iteration by more than just $1$, surpassing the pace of the output (which will always grow at same rate). Worse yet, if $b$ is smaller than one it would mean that the LHS would start getting smaller (while the output grows).



                                            As succinctly expressed in the answers, the identity function, or any linear function for that matter, won't fit a logarithm no matter the chosen base, since it would be like trying to fit a multiplication into an addition.






                                            share|cite|improve this answer








                                            New contributor




                                            schomatis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                            Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                            $endgroup$


















                                              3












                                              $begingroup$

                                              I'm expanding here the accepted answer by FredH in the way I interpreted it, putting it in layman's terms as much as possible (according to my very basic mathematical knowledge). I'm also drawing from other answers posted, so thanks everyone who took the time!



                                              First, as suggested, instead of talking in terms of logarithms I'll rephrase the question as an exponentiation (which seems simpler to grasp). In that case we would be looking for a base $b$ that had an exponent that would be the same as its result:



                                              $$ b^x=x $$



                                              In this explanation I'll invert the terms calling the exponent the input and the result of the exponentiation the output (in the logarithm it's actually the other way around since it is the inverse function, but since we're talking about an identity function the relationship between the input and output is symmetrical).



                                              An identity function, and hence a linear function, will have its output growing at the same rate as the input (called both $x$ here). Even if there's a particular $b$ and a particular $x$ that holds the equality (which there are, as shown in the examples of other answers), when $x$ starts growing, say, one unit at a time, in the left-hand side (LHS) it would mean multiplying the already $b^x$ by another $b$



                                              $$ b^{x+1} = x + 1 iff b^x * b = x + 1 $$



                                              so the LHS would be expanding $b$ times (multiplication) while the output is always growing by a fixed constant of $1$ (addition).



                                              I originally thought of the invalid logarithm base of $1$, but not even $1$ would work for every $x$, it would keep the LHS steady while the output changes. If $b$ is bigger than one, no matter how close to $1$ it is, repeatedly multiplying by it would cause the LHS to, at some point, start (and keep) growing in each iteration by more than just $1$, surpassing the pace of the output (which will always grow at same rate). Worse yet, if $b$ is smaller than one it would mean that the LHS would start getting smaller (while the output grows).



                                              As succinctly expressed in the answers, the identity function, or any linear function for that matter, won't fit a logarithm no matter the chosen base, since it would be like trying to fit a multiplication into an addition.






                                              share|cite|improve this answer








                                              New contributor




                                              schomatis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                              Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                              $endgroup$
















                                                3












                                                3








                                                3





                                                $begingroup$

                                                I'm expanding here the accepted answer by FredH in the way I interpreted it, putting it in layman's terms as much as possible (according to my very basic mathematical knowledge). I'm also drawing from other answers posted, so thanks everyone who took the time!



                                                First, as suggested, instead of talking in terms of logarithms I'll rephrase the question as an exponentiation (which seems simpler to grasp). In that case we would be looking for a base $b$ that had an exponent that would be the same as its result:



                                                $$ b^x=x $$



                                                In this explanation I'll invert the terms calling the exponent the input and the result of the exponentiation the output (in the logarithm it's actually the other way around since it is the inverse function, but since we're talking about an identity function the relationship between the input and output is symmetrical).



                                                An identity function, and hence a linear function, will have its output growing at the same rate as the input (called both $x$ here). Even if there's a particular $b$ and a particular $x$ that holds the equality (which there are, as shown in the examples of other answers), when $x$ starts growing, say, one unit at a time, in the left-hand side (LHS) it would mean multiplying the already $b^x$ by another $b$



                                                $$ b^{x+1} = x + 1 iff b^x * b = x + 1 $$



                                                so the LHS would be expanding $b$ times (multiplication) while the output is always growing by a fixed constant of $1$ (addition).



                                                I originally thought of the invalid logarithm base of $1$, but not even $1$ would work for every $x$, it would keep the LHS steady while the output changes. If $b$ is bigger than one, no matter how close to $1$ it is, repeatedly multiplying by it would cause the LHS to, at some point, start (and keep) growing in each iteration by more than just $1$, surpassing the pace of the output (which will always grow at same rate). Worse yet, if $b$ is smaller than one it would mean that the LHS would start getting smaller (while the output grows).



                                                As succinctly expressed in the answers, the identity function, or any linear function for that matter, won't fit a logarithm no matter the chosen base, since it would be like trying to fit a multiplication into an addition.






                                                share|cite|improve this answer








                                                New contributor




                                                schomatis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                                Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                                $endgroup$



                                                I'm expanding here the accepted answer by FredH in the way I interpreted it, putting it in layman's terms as much as possible (according to my very basic mathematical knowledge). I'm also drawing from other answers posted, so thanks everyone who took the time!



                                                First, as suggested, instead of talking in terms of logarithms I'll rephrase the question as an exponentiation (which seems simpler to grasp). In that case we would be looking for a base $b$ that had an exponent that would be the same as its result:



                                                $$ b^x=x $$



                                                In this explanation I'll invert the terms calling the exponent the input and the result of the exponentiation the output (in the logarithm it's actually the other way around since it is the inverse function, but since we're talking about an identity function the relationship between the input and output is symmetrical).



                                                An identity function, and hence a linear function, will have its output growing at the same rate as the input (called both $x$ here). Even if there's a particular $b$ and a particular $x$ that holds the equality (which there are, as shown in the examples of other answers), when $x$ starts growing, say, one unit at a time, in the left-hand side (LHS) it would mean multiplying the already $b^x$ by another $b$



                                                $$ b^{x+1} = x + 1 iff b^x * b = x + 1 $$



                                                so the LHS would be expanding $b$ times (multiplication) while the output is always growing by a fixed constant of $1$ (addition).



                                                I originally thought of the invalid logarithm base of $1$, but not even $1$ would work for every $x$, it would keep the LHS steady while the output changes. If $b$ is bigger than one, no matter how close to $1$ it is, repeatedly multiplying by it would cause the LHS to, at some point, start (and keep) growing in each iteration by more than just $1$, surpassing the pace of the output (which will always grow at same rate). Worse yet, if $b$ is smaller than one it would mean that the LHS would start getting smaller (while the output grows).



                                                As succinctly expressed in the answers, the identity function, or any linear function for that matter, won't fit a logarithm no matter the chosen base, since it would be like trying to fit a multiplication into an addition.







                                                share|cite|improve this answer








                                                New contributor




                                                schomatis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                                share|cite|improve this answer



                                                share|cite|improve this answer






                                                New contributor




                                                schomatis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                                answered 23 hours ago









                                                schomatisschomatis

                                                857




                                                857




                                                New contributor




                                                schomatis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                                Check out our Code of Conduct.





                                                New contributor





                                                schomatis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                                Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                                schomatis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                                Check out our Code of Conduct.























                                                    1












                                                    $begingroup$

                                                    Logically, $y=x$ is a straight line, $y=log_b x$ is not (otherwise why would we call it non-linear function) so they cannot coincide for all $x$.



                                                    Suppose $y=log_b x$ is a straight line the same as $y=x$ then for any two $x_1$ and $x_2$ such as $x_2=x_1+1$ we should have for the slope: $1=frac{log_b x_2-log_b x_1}{x_2-x_1}=log_b x_2-log_b x_1=log_b frac{x_2}{x_1} rightarrow frac{x_2}{x_1}=b$ which leads to a contradiction ($frac{4}{3}=b, frac{5}{4}=b$).






                                                    share|cite|improve this answer











                                                    $endgroup$









                                                    • 2




                                                      $begingroup$
                                                      And why is $y=log_b x$ not a straight line?
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Henning Makholm
                                                      yesterday






                                                    • 1




                                                      $begingroup$
                                                      @HenningMakholm: because it does not have a constant slope (derivative will be $cover x$ where $c$ is a constant but $x$ is obviously not)
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Vasya
                                                      yesterday










                                                    • $begingroup$
                                                      $frac0x$ is a constant function on a useful subset of $mathbb R$.
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Henning Makholm
                                                      yesterday








                                                    • 2




                                                      $begingroup$
                                                      @HenningMakholm: we both know that $c ne 0$ in this case, I was trying to explain it at the simplest level for the original poster.
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Vasya
                                                      23 hours ago






                                                    • 2




                                                      $begingroup$
                                                      The OP was asking for an argument, not for a "simplest level" that amounts to an unsupported assertion of the same thing he wanted a proof of.
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Henning Makholm
                                                      16 hours ago


















                                                    1












                                                    $begingroup$

                                                    Logically, $y=x$ is a straight line, $y=log_b x$ is not (otherwise why would we call it non-linear function) so they cannot coincide for all $x$.



                                                    Suppose $y=log_b x$ is a straight line the same as $y=x$ then for any two $x_1$ and $x_2$ such as $x_2=x_1+1$ we should have for the slope: $1=frac{log_b x_2-log_b x_1}{x_2-x_1}=log_b x_2-log_b x_1=log_b frac{x_2}{x_1} rightarrow frac{x_2}{x_1}=b$ which leads to a contradiction ($frac{4}{3}=b, frac{5}{4}=b$).






                                                    share|cite|improve this answer











                                                    $endgroup$









                                                    • 2




                                                      $begingroup$
                                                      And why is $y=log_b x$ not a straight line?
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Henning Makholm
                                                      yesterday






                                                    • 1




                                                      $begingroup$
                                                      @HenningMakholm: because it does not have a constant slope (derivative will be $cover x$ where $c$ is a constant but $x$ is obviously not)
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Vasya
                                                      yesterday










                                                    • $begingroup$
                                                      $frac0x$ is a constant function on a useful subset of $mathbb R$.
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Henning Makholm
                                                      yesterday








                                                    • 2




                                                      $begingroup$
                                                      @HenningMakholm: we both know that $c ne 0$ in this case, I was trying to explain it at the simplest level for the original poster.
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Vasya
                                                      23 hours ago






                                                    • 2




                                                      $begingroup$
                                                      The OP was asking for an argument, not for a "simplest level" that amounts to an unsupported assertion of the same thing he wanted a proof of.
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Henning Makholm
                                                      16 hours ago
















                                                    1












                                                    1








                                                    1





                                                    $begingroup$

                                                    Logically, $y=x$ is a straight line, $y=log_b x$ is not (otherwise why would we call it non-linear function) so they cannot coincide for all $x$.



                                                    Suppose $y=log_b x$ is a straight line the same as $y=x$ then for any two $x_1$ and $x_2$ such as $x_2=x_1+1$ we should have for the slope: $1=frac{log_b x_2-log_b x_1}{x_2-x_1}=log_b x_2-log_b x_1=log_b frac{x_2}{x_1} rightarrow frac{x_2}{x_1}=b$ which leads to a contradiction ($frac{4}{3}=b, frac{5}{4}=b$).






                                                    share|cite|improve this answer











                                                    $endgroup$



                                                    Logically, $y=x$ is a straight line, $y=log_b x$ is not (otherwise why would we call it non-linear function) so they cannot coincide for all $x$.



                                                    Suppose $y=log_b x$ is a straight line the same as $y=x$ then for any two $x_1$ and $x_2$ such as $x_2=x_1+1$ we should have for the slope: $1=frac{log_b x_2-log_b x_1}{x_2-x_1}=log_b x_2-log_b x_1=log_b frac{x_2}{x_1} rightarrow frac{x_2}{x_1}=b$ which leads to a contradiction ($frac{4}{3}=b, frac{5}{4}=b$).







                                                    share|cite|improve this answer














                                                    share|cite|improve this answer



                                                    share|cite|improve this answer








                                                    edited 12 hours ago

























                                                    answered yesterday









                                                    VasyaVasya

                                                    4,0381618




                                                    4,0381618








                                                    • 2




                                                      $begingroup$
                                                      And why is $y=log_b x$ not a straight line?
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Henning Makholm
                                                      yesterday






                                                    • 1




                                                      $begingroup$
                                                      @HenningMakholm: because it does not have a constant slope (derivative will be $cover x$ where $c$ is a constant but $x$ is obviously not)
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Vasya
                                                      yesterday










                                                    • $begingroup$
                                                      $frac0x$ is a constant function on a useful subset of $mathbb R$.
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Henning Makholm
                                                      yesterday








                                                    • 2




                                                      $begingroup$
                                                      @HenningMakholm: we both know that $c ne 0$ in this case, I was trying to explain it at the simplest level for the original poster.
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Vasya
                                                      23 hours ago






                                                    • 2




                                                      $begingroup$
                                                      The OP was asking for an argument, not for a "simplest level" that amounts to an unsupported assertion of the same thing he wanted a proof of.
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Henning Makholm
                                                      16 hours ago
















                                                    • 2




                                                      $begingroup$
                                                      And why is $y=log_b x$ not a straight line?
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Henning Makholm
                                                      yesterday






                                                    • 1




                                                      $begingroup$
                                                      @HenningMakholm: because it does not have a constant slope (derivative will be $cover x$ where $c$ is a constant but $x$ is obviously not)
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Vasya
                                                      yesterday










                                                    • $begingroup$
                                                      $frac0x$ is a constant function on a useful subset of $mathbb R$.
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Henning Makholm
                                                      yesterday








                                                    • 2




                                                      $begingroup$
                                                      @HenningMakholm: we both know that $c ne 0$ in this case, I was trying to explain it at the simplest level for the original poster.
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Vasya
                                                      23 hours ago






                                                    • 2




                                                      $begingroup$
                                                      The OP was asking for an argument, not for a "simplest level" that amounts to an unsupported assertion of the same thing he wanted a proof of.
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Henning Makholm
                                                      16 hours ago










                                                    2




                                                    2




                                                    $begingroup$
                                                    And why is $y=log_b x$ not a straight line?
                                                    $endgroup$
                                                    – Henning Makholm
                                                    yesterday




                                                    $begingroup$
                                                    And why is $y=log_b x$ not a straight line?
                                                    $endgroup$
                                                    – Henning Makholm
                                                    yesterday




                                                    1




                                                    1




                                                    $begingroup$
                                                    @HenningMakholm: because it does not have a constant slope (derivative will be $cover x$ where $c$ is a constant but $x$ is obviously not)
                                                    $endgroup$
                                                    – Vasya
                                                    yesterday




                                                    $begingroup$
                                                    @HenningMakholm: because it does not have a constant slope (derivative will be $cover x$ where $c$ is a constant but $x$ is obviously not)
                                                    $endgroup$
                                                    – Vasya
                                                    yesterday












                                                    $begingroup$
                                                    $frac0x$ is a constant function on a useful subset of $mathbb R$.
                                                    $endgroup$
                                                    – Henning Makholm
                                                    yesterday






                                                    $begingroup$
                                                    $frac0x$ is a constant function on a useful subset of $mathbb R$.
                                                    $endgroup$
                                                    – Henning Makholm
                                                    yesterday






                                                    2




                                                    2




                                                    $begingroup$
                                                    @HenningMakholm: we both know that $c ne 0$ in this case, I was trying to explain it at the simplest level for the original poster.
                                                    $endgroup$
                                                    – Vasya
                                                    23 hours ago




                                                    $begingroup$
                                                    @HenningMakholm: we both know that $c ne 0$ in this case, I was trying to explain it at the simplest level for the original poster.
                                                    $endgroup$
                                                    – Vasya
                                                    23 hours ago




                                                    2




                                                    2




                                                    $begingroup$
                                                    The OP was asking for an argument, not for a "simplest level" that amounts to an unsupported assertion of the same thing he wanted a proof of.
                                                    $endgroup$
                                                    – Henning Makholm
                                                    16 hours ago






                                                    $begingroup$
                                                    The OP was asking for an argument, not for a "simplest level" that amounts to an unsupported assertion of the same thing he wanted a proof of.
                                                    $endgroup$
                                                    – Henning Makholm
                                                    16 hours ago












                                                    schomatis is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










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