Criticizing long fiction. How is it different from short?
I recently asked about criticism regarding short pieces of fiction. What about longer works like novels? Surely no one can sit down and agonize over individual word choices in a larger work the way they can over something as short as three to four pages. So how do you approach longer works? What else do you do differently? What are your main concerns when reading over it to give feedback? Is size alone the only difference in such approaches?
fiction novel criticism feedback
add a comment |
I recently asked about criticism regarding short pieces of fiction. What about longer works like novels? Surely no one can sit down and agonize over individual word choices in a larger work the way they can over something as short as three to four pages. So how do you approach longer works? What else do you do differently? What are your main concerns when reading over it to give feedback? Is size alone the only difference in such approaches?
fiction novel criticism feedback
add a comment |
I recently asked about criticism regarding short pieces of fiction. What about longer works like novels? Surely no one can sit down and agonize over individual word choices in a larger work the way they can over something as short as three to four pages. So how do you approach longer works? What else do you do differently? What are your main concerns when reading over it to give feedback? Is size alone the only difference in such approaches?
fiction novel criticism feedback
I recently asked about criticism regarding short pieces of fiction. What about longer works like novels? Surely no one can sit down and agonize over individual word choices in a larger work the way they can over something as short as three to four pages. So how do you approach longer works? What else do you do differently? What are your main concerns when reading over it to give feedback? Is size alone the only difference in such approaches?
fiction novel criticism feedback
fiction novel criticism feedback
edited 3 hours ago
bruglesco
asked 4 hours ago
bruglescobruglesco
1,353328
1,353328
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2 Answers
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I tend to judge stories on the success of their theme.
Characters create relatable and enviable anchors to follow through a story, while Plot is the sequence of story beats that are arranged to invoke and subvert reader expectations. Characters are usually a relatable hook, and plot is constructed to entertain, but the theme is a larger overall effect of the story that is not endlessly variable just by shifting around the details, it's a broader immutable structure that emerges from the synergy of the story components – hard to define exactly what is "theme" but most can recognize it when they see it.
Short stories do not have room to fully explore a theme. They often work as vignettes or a tableau – a slice of the theme which does not evolve, but just illustrates the concept. There may be room for a single twist that proves or subverts the theme, raising more questions than it answers. That twist typically comes at the end of the short story like a punctuation mark on the theme.
In a novel, I expect the theme to be explored in multiple ways. Several characters may represent various aspects of the theme, or the theme effects each differently. A novel may be able to fully abstract the theme, or transition to an unexpected theme, creating an analogy that feeds back onto the story. Themes of failed morals can be followed by a theme of redemption, themes of excess can be followed by themes about consequences.
There is also more time for a main character to repeat a theme, to show it is a lesson they need or cannot learn. The theme may be a hidden structure of the story that supersedes character and plot. The full exploration of the theme is what makes the novel feel finished. We know the story is over when the theme has played out or has looped back to the beginning.
add a comment |
Is size alone the only difference in such approaches?
My answer:
It's not about size, it's about a sense of scale.
Short pieces are like snacks; easily eaten and digested. A bad one will leave a bad aftertaste in your mouth; a good one will leave you wanting for more, or, if it's really good, make you wonder at the writer's ability that condensed so many ingredients in such a small thing.
Novels, though, are a different thing. Unless you are an editor, you won't read a novel a day, and after all they are not supposed to be consumed on the spot. Hence, novels have a larger scale; they give you more time to breathe, and they need more time to breathe, also.
In a short story the author must set things straight in a short time. Characters must be explained, stakes must be clarified, something resembling an arc must rise and fall in a given set of words.
In a novel you have whole chapters to explore the very same concepts and - possibly - much more.
Surely no one can sit down and agonize over individual word choices in a
larger work the way they can over something as short as three to four
pages.
To be honest, I wouldn't fret over individual word choices in any case. But it makes kind of sense for a short story, since your words are limited. Word-choice sets the tone; if your upper limit is 1000 words, you've got to be careful with them (consider poetry an even more extreme example).
But then again, being so sharply focused on word choice in a novel doesn't make sense and is dangerously close to nitpicking. Not because novelists don't need to worry about style or lexicon (they do, as all writers) but because there is a bigger picture to look at.
A single page of a novel, or a single chapter, may be faulty or badly written. But setting aside particular cases (e.g., you don't want your prologue to be that chapter) the overall novel can still be good.
A bigger, more articulate structure will tolerate some faults. In other words, a novel is more than the sum of its chapters, and more than the sum of each individual scene.
So, when inspecting a novel, I'd keep an eye on the writing, of course, but I'd be more lenient. Things like character arcs, subplots, worldbuilding, branching narratives, theme and so on all can take advantage of a novels longer span.
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
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active
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I tend to judge stories on the success of their theme.
Characters create relatable and enviable anchors to follow through a story, while Plot is the sequence of story beats that are arranged to invoke and subvert reader expectations. Characters are usually a relatable hook, and plot is constructed to entertain, but the theme is a larger overall effect of the story that is not endlessly variable just by shifting around the details, it's a broader immutable structure that emerges from the synergy of the story components – hard to define exactly what is "theme" but most can recognize it when they see it.
Short stories do not have room to fully explore a theme. They often work as vignettes or a tableau – a slice of the theme which does not evolve, but just illustrates the concept. There may be room for a single twist that proves or subverts the theme, raising more questions than it answers. That twist typically comes at the end of the short story like a punctuation mark on the theme.
In a novel, I expect the theme to be explored in multiple ways. Several characters may represent various aspects of the theme, or the theme effects each differently. A novel may be able to fully abstract the theme, or transition to an unexpected theme, creating an analogy that feeds back onto the story. Themes of failed morals can be followed by a theme of redemption, themes of excess can be followed by themes about consequences.
There is also more time for a main character to repeat a theme, to show it is a lesson they need or cannot learn. The theme may be a hidden structure of the story that supersedes character and plot. The full exploration of the theme is what makes the novel feel finished. We know the story is over when the theme has played out or has looped back to the beginning.
add a comment |
I tend to judge stories on the success of their theme.
Characters create relatable and enviable anchors to follow through a story, while Plot is the sequence of story beats that are arranged to invoke and subvert reader expectations. Characters are usually a relatable hook, and plot is constructed to entertain, but the theme is a larger overall effect of the story that is not endlessly variable just by shifting around the details, it's a broader immutable structure that emerges from the synergy of the story components – hard to define exactly what is "theme" but most can recognize it when they see it.
Short stories do not have room to fully explore a theme. They often work as vignettes or a tableau – a slice of the theme which does not evolve, but just illustrates the concept. There may be room for a single twist that proves or subverts the theme, raising more questions than it answers. That twist typically comes at the end of the short story like a punctuation mark on the theme.
In a novel, I expect the theme to be explored in multiple ways. Several characters may represent various aspects of the theme, or the theme effects each differently. A novel may be able to fully abstract the theme, or transition to an unexpected theme, creating an analogy that feeds back onto the story. Themes of failed morals can be followed by a theme of redemption, themes of excess can be followed by themes about consequences.
There is also more time for a main character to repeat a theme, to show it is a lesson they need or cannot learn. The theme may be a hidden structure of the story that supersedes character and plot. The full exploration of the theme is what makes the novel feel finished. We know the story is over when the theme has played out or has looped back to the beginning.
add a comment |
I tend to judge stories on the success of their theme.
Characters create relatable and enviable anchors to follow through a story, while Plot is the sequence of story beats that are arranged to invoke and subvert reader expectations. Characters are usually a relatable hook, and plot is constructed to entertain, but the theme is a larger overall effect of the story that is not endlessly variable just by shifting around the details, it's a broader immutable structure that emerges from the synergy of the story components – hard to define exactly what is "theme" but most can recognize it when they see it.
Short stories do not have room to fully explore a theme. They often work as vignettes or a tableau – a slice of the theme which does not evolve, but just illustrates the concept. There may be room for a single twist that proves or subverts the theme, raising more questions than it answers. That twist typically comes at the end of the short story like a punctuation mark on the theme.
In a novel, I expect the theme to be explored in multiple ways. Several characters may represent various aspects of the theme, or the theme effects each differently. A novel may be able to fully abstract the theme, or transition to an unexpected theme, creating an analogy that feeds back onto the story. Themes of failed morals can be followed by a theme of redemption, themes of excess can be followed by themes about consequences.
There is also more time for a main character to repeat a theme, to show it is a lesson they need or cannot learn. The theme may be a hidden structure of the story that supersedes character and plot. The full exploration of the theme is what makes the novel feel finished. We know the story is over when the theme has played out or has looped back to the beginning.
I tend to judge stories on the success of their theme.
Characters create relatable and enviable anchors to follow through a story, while Plot is the sequence of story beats that are arranged to invoke and subvert reader expectations. Characters are usually a relatable hook, and plot is constructed to entertain, but the theme is a larger overall effect of the story that is not endlessly variable just by shifting around the details, it's a broader immutable structure that emerges from the synergy of the story components – hard to define exactly what is "theme" but most can recognize it when they see it.
Short stories do not have room to fully explore a theme. They often work as vignettes or a tableau – a slice of the theme which does not evolve, but just illustrates the concept. There may be room for a single twist that proves or subverts the theme, raising more questions than it answers. That twist typically comes at the end of the short story like a punctuation mark on the theme.
In a novel, I expect the theme to be explored in multiple ways. Several characters may represent various aspects of the theme, or the theme effects each differently. A novel may be able to fully abstract the theme, or transition to an unexpected theme, creating an analogy that feeds back onto the story. Themes of failed morals can be followed by a theme of redemption, themes of excess can be followed by themes about consequences.
There is also more time for a main character to repeat a theme, to show it is a lesson they need or cannot learn. The theme may be a hidden structure of the story that supersedes character and plot. The full exploration of the theme is what makes the novel feel finished. We know the story is over when the theme has played out or has looped back to the beginning.
answered 3 hours ago
wetcircuitwetcircuit
11.8k22256
11.8k22256
add a comment |
add a comment |
Is size alone the only difference in such approaches?
My answer:
It's not about size, it's about a sense of scale.
Short pieces are like snacks; easily eaten and digested. A bad one will leave a bad aftertaste in your mouth; a good one will leave you wanting for more, or, if it's really good, make you wonder at the writer's ability that condensed so many ingredients in such a small thing.
Novels, though, are a different thing. Unless you are an editor, you won't read a novel a day, and after all they are not supposed to be consumed on the spot. Hence, novels have a larger scale; they give you more time to breathe, and they need more time to breathe, also.
In a short story the author must set things straight in a short time. Characters must be explained, stakes must be clarified, something resembling an arc must rise and fall in a given set of words.
In a novel you have whole chapters to explore the very same concepts and - possibly - much more.
Surely no one can sit down and agonize over individual word choices in a
larger work the way they can over something as short as three to four
pages.
To be honest, I wouldn't fret over individual word choices in any case. But it makes kind of sense for a short story, since your words are limited. Word-choice sets the tone; if your upper limit is 1000 words, you've got to be careful with them (consider poetry an even more extreme example).
But then again, being so sharply focused on word choice in a novel doesn't make sense and is dangerously close to nitpicking. Not because novelists don't need to worry about style or lexicon (they do, as all writers) but because there is a bigger picture to look at.
A single page of a novel, or a single chapter, may be faulty or badly written. But setting aside particular cases (e.g., you don't want your prologue to be that chapter) the overall novel can still be good.
A bigger, more articulate structure will tolerate some faults. In other words, a novel is more than the sum of its chapters, and more than the sum of each individual scene.
So, when inspecting a novel, I'd keep an eye on the writing, of course, but I'd be more lenient. Things like character arcs, subplots, worldbuilding, branching narratives, theme and so on all can take advantage of a novels longer span.
add a comment |
Is size alone the only difference in such approaches?
My answer:
It's not about size, it's about a sense of scale.
Short pieces are like snacks; easily eaten and digested. A bad one will leave a bad aftertaste in your mouth; a good one will leave you wanting for more, or, if it's really good, make you wonder at the writer's ability that condensed so many ingredients in such a small thing.
Novels, though, are a different thing. Unless you are an editor, you won't read a novel a day, and after all they are not supposed to be consumed on the spot. Hence, novels have a larger scale; they give you more time to breathe, and they need more time to breathe, also.
In a short story the author must set things straight in a short time. Characters must be explained, stakes must be clarified, something resembling an arc must rise and fall in a given set of words.
In a novel you have whole chapters to explore the very same concepts and - possibly - much more.
Surely no one can sit down and agonize over individual word choices in a
larger work the way they can over something as short as three to four
pages.
To be honest, I wouldn't fret over individual word choices in any case. But it makes kind of sense for a short story, since your words are limited. Word-choice sets the tone; if your upper limit is 1000 words, you've got to be careful with them (consider poetry an even more extreme example).
But then again, being so sharply focused on word choice in a novel doesn't make sense and is dangerously close to nitpicking. Not because novelists don't need to worry about style or lexicon (they do, as all writers) but because there is a bigger picture to look at.
A single page of a novel, or a single chapter, may be faulty or badly written. But setting aside particular cases (e.g., you don't want your prologue to be that chapter) the overall novel can still be good.
A bigger, more articulate structure will tolerate some faults. In other words, a novel is more than the sum of its chapters, and more than the sum of each individual scene.
So, when inspecting a novel, I'd keep an eye on the writing, of course, but I'd be more lenient. Things like character arcs, subplots, worldbuilding, branching narratives, theme and so on all can take advantage of a novels longer span.
add a comment |
Is size alone the only difference in such approaches?
My answer:
It's not about size, it's about a sense of scale.
Short pieces are like snacks; easily eaten and digested. A bad one will leave a bad aftertaste in your mouth; a good one will leave you wanting for more, or, if it's really good, make you wonder at the writer's ability that condensed so many ingredients in such a small thing.
Novels, though, are a different thing. Unless you are an editor, you won't read a novel a day, and after all they are not supposed to be consumed on the spot. Hence, novels have a larger scale; they give you more time to breathe, and they need more time to breathe, also.
In a short story the author must set things straight in a short time. Characters must be explained, stakes must be clarified, something resembling an arc must rise and fall in a given set of words.
In a novel you have whole chapters to explore the very same concepts and - possibly - much more.
Surely no one can sit down and agonize over individual word choices in a
larger work the way they can over something as short as three to four
pages.
To be honest, I wouldn't fret over individual word choices in any case. But it makes kind of sense for a short story, since your words are limited. Word-choice sets the tone; if your upper limit is 1000 words, you've got to be careful with them (consider poetry an even more extreme example).
But then again, being so sharply focused on word choice in a novel doesn't make sense and is dangerously close to nitpicking. Not because novelists don't need to worry about style or lexicon (they do, as all writers) but because there is a bigger picture to look at.
A single page of a novel, or a single chapter, may be faulty or badly written. But setting aside particular cases (e.g., you don't want your prologue to be that chapter) the overall novel can still be good.
A bigger, more articulate structure will tolerate some faults. In other words, a novel is more than the sum of its chapters, and more than the sum of each individual scene.
So, when inspecting a novel, I'd keep an eye on the writing, of course, but I'd be more lenient. Things like character arcs, subplots, worldbuilding, branching narratives, theme and so on all can take advantage of a novels longer span.
Is size alone the only difference in such approaches?
My answer:
It's not about size, it's about a sense of scale.
Short pieces are like snacks; easily eaten and digested. A bad one will leave a bad aftertaste in your mouth; a good one will leave you wanting for more, or, if it's really good, make you wonder at the writer's ability that condensed so many ingredients in such a small thing.
Novels, though, are a different thing. Unless you are an editor, you won't read a novel a day, and after all they are not supposed to be consumed on the spot. Hence, novels have a larger scale; they give you more time to breathe, and they need more time to breathe, also.
In a short story the author must set things straight in a short time. Characters must be explained, stakes must be clarified, something resembling an arc must rise and fall in a given set of words.
In a novel you have whole chapters to explore the very same concepts and - possibly - much more.
Surely no one can sit down and agonize over individual word choices in a
larger work the way they can over something as short as three to four
pages.
To be honest, I wouldn't fret over individual word choices in any case. But it makes kind of sense for a short story, since your words are limited. Word-choice sets the tone; if your upper limit is 1000 words, you've got to be careful with them (consider poetry an even more extreme example).
But then again, being so sharply focused on word choice in a novel doesn't make sense and is dangerously close to nitpicking. Not because novelists don't need to worry about style or lexicon (they do, as all writers) but because there is a bigger picture to look at.
A single page of a novel, or a single chapter, may be faulty or badly written. But setting aside particular cases (e.g., you don't want your prologue to be that chapter) the overall novel can still be good.
A bigger, more articulate structure will tolerate some faults. In other words, a novel is more than the sum of its chapters, and more than the sum of each individual scene.
So, when inspecting a novel, I'd keep an eye on the writing, of course, but I'd be more lenient. Things like character arcs, subplots, worldbuilding, branching narratives, theme and so on all can take advantage of a novels longer span.
edited 3 hours ago
bruglesco
1,353328
1,353328
answered 3 hours ago
LiquidLiquid
6,81921552
6,81921552
add a comment |
add a comment |
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