Can a Spectator be a bodyguard? So, can its treasure/item to guard be a person/person's item?
$begingroup$
Basically, my question if is it possible to summon a spectator as a bodyguard. But let me first explain it:
Monster Manual p.31:
Spectator
A spectator is a lesser beholder that is summoned from another plane of existence by a magical ritual [...].
Magical Guardians. A summoned spectator guards a location or a treasure of its summoner's choice for 101 years, allowing no creature but its summoner to enter the area or access the item, unless the summoner instructed otherwise. If the item is stolen or destroyed before the years have all passed, a summoned spectator vanishes. It otherwise never abandons its post.
Emphasis not mine.
So, imagine that a character knows that "magical ritual" and summon a spectator. (Note that I'm not asking how to summon it, for the sake of the question the NPC already know and can, or, if it is a player, he knows the proper ritual/spell to do it.)
For example, a wizard from Lost Mines of Phandelver p.48:
The monster that guards this room is a spectator. One of the human wizards who worked in the Forge of Spells summoned the creature to guard the magic items created and stored here.
Imagine that instead of protecting the room the wizard wanted to use this spectator as a guard, could he do that?
In other words, can the treasure or item to guard by the spectator be an alive creature (like the summoner)?
So, the spectator will always follow its summoner to protect him.
In the case that it isn't possible, can the treasure or item to guard by the spectator be a moving object (like a necklace)?
So, instead of guarding the character, the spectator follows the character's necklace to protect it from anyone (less the summoner and friends) who dares to take closer and try to steal it.
dnd-5e monsters summoning treasure
asked 5 hours ago
Ender LookEnder Look
8911729
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Basically, my question if is it possible to summon a spectator as a bodyguard. But let me first explain it:
Monster Manual p.31:
Spectator
A spectator is a lesser beholder that is summoned from another plane of existence by a magical ritual [...].
Magical Guardians. A summoned spectator guards a location or a treasure of its summoner's choice for 101 years, allowing no creature but its summoner to enter the area or access the item, unless the summoner instructed otherwise. If the item is stolen or destroyed before the years have all passed, a summoned spectator vanishes. It otherwise never abandons its post.
Emphasis not mine.
So, imagine that a character knows that "magical ritual" and summon a spectator. (Note that I'm not asking how to summon it, for the sake of the question the NPC already know and can, or, if it is a player, he knows the proper ritual/spell to do it.)
For example, a wizard from Lost Mines of Phandelver p.48:
The monster that guards this room is a spectator. One of the human wizards who worked in the Forge of Spells summoned the creature to guard the magic items created and stored here.
Imagine that instead of protecting the room the wizard wanted to use this spectator as a guard, could he do that?
In other words, can the treasure or item to guard by the spectator be an alive creature (like the summoner)?
So, the spectator will always follow its summoner to protect him.
In the case that it isn't possible, can the treasure or item to guard by the spectator be a moving object (like a necklace)?
So, instead of guarding the character, the spectator follows the character's necklace to protect it from anyone (less the summoner and friends) who dares to take closer and try to steal it.
dnd-5e monsters summoning treasure
asked 5 hours ago
Ender LookEnder Look
8911729
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Why the downvote? If you explain me, I could try to mend it.
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch, I'm no longer making the assumption about the PC. I'm quoting an NPC from Lost mine of Phandelver.
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Are you just asking if, as a DM, you can have an NPC with a spectator working as a bodyguard?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch mmm, yes. As a DM, of course, I could do that, but I wanted to know if mechanically speaking is possible. If it's possible, I would like in the future ask if this can also be extended to PC, but that for another question.
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch Ok. Give me a minute and I will re-edit it
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
3 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Basically, my question if is it possible to summon a spectator as a bodyguard. But let me first explain it:
Monster Manual p.31:
Spectator
A spectator is a lesser beholder that is summoned from another plane of existence by a magical ritual [...].
Magical Guardians. A summoned spectator guards a location or a treasure of its summoner's choice for 101 years, allowing no creature but its summoner to enter the area or access the item, unless the summoner instructed otherwise. If the item is stolen or destroyed before the years have all passed, a summoned spectator vanishes. It otherwise never abandons its post.
Emphasis not mine.
So, imagine that a character knows that "magical ritual" and summon a spectator. (Note that I'm not asking how to summon it, for the sake of the question the NPC already know and can, or, if it is a player, he knows the proper ritual/spell to do it.)
For example, a wizard from Lost Mines of Phandelver p.48:
The monster that guards this room is a spectator. One of the human wizards who worked in the Forge of Spells summoned the creature to guard the magic items created and stored here.
Imagine that instead of protecting the room the wizard wanted to use this spectator as a guard, could he do that?
In other words, can the treasure or item to guard by the spectator be an alive creature (like the summoner)?
So, the spectator will always follow its summoner to protect him.
In the case that it isn't possible, can the treasure or item to guard by the spectator be a moving object (like a necklace)?
So, instead of guarding the character, the spectator follows the character's necklace to protect it from anyone (less the summoner and friends) who dares to take closer and try to steal it.
dnd-5e monsters summoning treasure
asked 5 hours ago
Ender LookEnder Look
8911729
$endgroup$
Basically, my question if is it possible to summon a spectator as a bodyguard. But let me first explain it:
Monster Manual p.31:
Spectator
A spectator is a lesser beholder that is summoned from another plane of existence by a magical ritual [...].
Magical Guardians. A summoned spectator guards a location or a treasure of its summoner's choice for 101 years, allowing no creature but its summoner to enter the area or access the item, unless the summoner instructed otherwise. If the item is stolen or destroyed before the years have all passed, a summoned spectator vanishes. It otherwise never abandons its post.
Emphasis not mine.
So, imagine that a character knows that "magical ritual" and summon a spectator. (Note that I'm not asking how to summon it, for the sake of the question the NPC already know and can, or, if it is a player, he knows the proper ritual/spell to do it.)
For example, a wizard from Lost Mines of Phandelver p.48:
The monster that guards this room is a spectator. One of the human wizards who worked in the Forge of Spells summoned the creature to guard the magic items created and stored here.
Imagine that instead of protecting the room the wizard wanted to use this spectator as a guard, could he do that?
In other words, can the treasure or item to guard by the spectator be an alive creature (like the summoner)?
So, the spectator will always follow its summoner to protect him.
In the case that it isn't possible, can the treasure or item to guard by the spectator be a moving object (like a necklace)?
So, instead of guarding the character, the spectator follows the character's necklace to protect it from anyone (less the summoner and friends) who dares to take closer and try to steal it.
dnd-5e monsters summoning treasure
dnd-5e monsters summoning treasure
asked 5 hours ago
Ender LookEnder Look
8911729
asked 5 hours ago
Ender LookEnder Look
8911729
edited 3 hours ago
Ender Look
asked 5 hours ago
Ender LookEnder Look
8911729
asked 5 hours ago
Ender LookEnder Look
8911729
asked 5 hours ago
Ender LookEnder Look
8911729
8911729
$begingroup$
Why the downvote? If you explain me, I could try to mend it.
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch, I'm no longer making the assumption about the PC. I'm quoting an NPC from Lost mine of Phandelver.
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Are you just asking if, as a DM, you can have an NPC with a spectator working as a bodyguard?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch mmm, yes. As a DM, of course, I could do that, but I wanted to know if mechanically speaking is possible. If it's possible, I would like in the future ask if this can also be extended to PC, but that for another question.
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch Ok. Give me a minute and I will re-edit it
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
3 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Why the downvote? If you explain me, I could try to mend it.
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch, I'm no longer making the assumption about the PC. I'm quoting an NPC from Lost mine of Phandelver.
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Are you just asking if, as a DM, you can have an NPC with a spectator working as a bodyguard?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch mmm, yes. As a DM, of course, I could do that, but I wanted to know if mechanically speaking is possible. If it's possible, I would like in the future ask if this can also be extended to PC, but that for another question.
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch Ok. Give me a minute and I will re-edit it
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Why the downvote? If you explain me, I could try to mend it.
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Why the downvote? If you explain me, I could try to mend it.
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch, I'm no longer making the assumption about the PC. I'm quoting an NPC from Lost mine of Phandelver.
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch, I'm no longer making the assumption about the PC. I'm quoting an NPC from Lost mine of Phandelver.
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
3 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Are you just asking if, as a DM, you can have an NPC with a spectator working as a bodyguard?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Are you just asking if, as a DM, you can have an NPC with a spectator working as a bodyguard?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch mmm, yes. As a DM, of course, I could do that, but I wanted to know if mechanically speaking is possible. If it's possible, I would like in the future ask if this can also be extended to PC, but that for another question.
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch mmm, yes. As a DM, of course, I could do that, but I wanted to know if mechanically speaking is possible. If it's possible, I would like in the future ask if this can also be extended to PC, but that for another question.
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch Ok. Give me a minute and I will re-edit it
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch Ok. Give me a minute and I will re-edit it
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
3 hours ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Spectators are not bodyguards.
In 5e, the rules do what they say they do (and anything else is up to the DM to decide). The target of a Spectator's attention is "a location or treasure". Its remit is "allowing no creature but its summoner to enter the area or access the item..."
A living creature is not a location, not a treasure, not an area, and not an item.
Even if it were, though, it wouldn't have the effect you want. It doesn't bodyguard, it prevents access. Even if it could be assigned to a person it wouldn't be able to distinguish between stabbing them with a knife and shaking their hand. A bodyguard that can't tell the difference between those two things is not a particularly effective bodyguard.
As far as the necklace, that could work. It's a legitimate treasure, no one's stolen it, and nothing says that a Spectator has to stay in one place.
It would certainly help to prevent anyone from stealing the necklace from you, or from taking it off your cooling corpse. On the other hand, it's going to do very little to the part where they convert you into a cooling corpse in the first place. What does it matter to the spectator if someone shoots you full of holes? You're not the one it's guarding.
...and if somehow you convince the spectator that everyone who gets within 20 feet of the necklace is a threat? Well, have fun walking down a city street.
This is not what this tool is for, it is not suited to the purpose, and it won't work.
There are other ways, though.
A spectator is, among other things, a LN creature with int 13, who's capable of communicating via telepathy. If you really want a spectator to help you out, you can talk with the thing, and possibly convince it. The ritual even gives you a way of making one show up and be non-hostile. So, for example, if you're absolutely confident of your ability to bluff the spectator into doing whatever it is that you want it to do in the moment, then binding one to a necklace that you can wear is a pretty reliable way of always having a spectator on hand to bluff.
Alternately, the spell only binds them for 101 years. After they're free of it, they pretty much become free-willed. At the same time, many of them continue to do whatever it was that they were doing before (more or less) out of habit or lingering fondness or some such. If you are particularly long-lived, you might be able to befriend one in the century+ of its servitude, and still have it as a friend when it was done.
None of this will give you guaranteed loyalty or obedience, and it all requires more effort than just "Perform ritual. Receive bodyguard." Still, if what you want is a friendly eyeball-critter, it's possible to befriend an eyeball-critter
Of course, if you're the DM...
Well, a spectator is summoned and bound through a specific ritual that does a specific thing. It would be entirely reasonable to suppose the existence of a similar-but-distinct ritual that did a similar-but-different thing of summoning a spectator (or something very much like a spectator) as a bodyguard. If that's something that you want to have in your game, it's an entirely reasonable thing to have in your game.
answered 3 hours ago
Ben BardenBen Barden
10k12455
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I was thinking that when an enemy gets close to the summoner he could say: "Spectator! They try to kill me in order to take over the necklace, don't let them take closer, destroy them before!" Or if he is being attacked: "Spectator! They are trying to break the necklace. Stop them!"
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
3 hours ago
4
$begingroup$
@EnderLook the spectator doesn't follow commands, though. It just follows the initial set of instructions, and that set of instructions (by RAW) consists entirely of exceptions to the "no one may access this" rule. If they're not trying to access it yet (because they're currently trying to kill you) then it's not the Spectator's issue yet.
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
oh, I was thinking that instead of giving him new orders the wizard could be just reminding him that he must guard the necklace. And since spectators are a bit mad, the Wizard could persuade the spectator to protect him "making it defend the necklace to avoid being taken away". I wanted to know if rules were enough flexibility to allow a clever wizard to manipulate a spectator as a personal guard (even if that wouldn't let friends get close).
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@EnderLook if you have confidence in your ability to manipulate nonhostile spectators into doing what you want them to do, then binding one to a necklace and wearing it around is a way to make sure that you always have a nonhostile spectator around to manipulate, but that's not exactly the same thing as having it serve as your bodyguard.
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@EnderLook I've said that already, multiple times. Yes, you can use a necklace as the target treasure and wear it around. No, it doesn't do the thing you want it to do.
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
2 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["\$", "\$"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "122"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f142102%2fcan-a-spectator-be-a-bodyguard-so-can-its-treasure-item-to-guard-be-a-person-p%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Spectators are not bodyguards.
In 5e, the rules do what they say they do (and anything else is up to the DM to decide). The target of a Spectator's attention is "a location or treasure". Its remit is "allowing no creature but its summoner to enter the area or access the item..."
A living creature is not a location, not a treasure, not an area, and not an item.
Even if it were, though, it wouldn't have the effect you want. It doesn't bodyguard, it prevents access. Even if it could be assigned to a person it wouldn't be able to distinguish between stabbing them with a knife and shaking their hand. A bodyguard that can't tell the difference between those two things is not a particularly effective bodyguard.
As far as the necklace, that could work. It's a legitimate treasure, no one's stolen it, and nothing says that a Spectator has to stay in one place.
It would certainly help to prevent anyone from stealing the necklace from you, or from taking it off your cooling corpse. On the other hand, it's going to do very little to the part where they convert you into a cooling corpse in the first place. What does it matter to the spectator if someone shoots you full of holes? You're not the one it's guarding.
...and if somehow you convince the spectator that everyone who gets within 20 feet of the necklace is a threat? Well, have fun walking down a city street.
This is not what this tool is for, it is not suited to the purpose, and it won't work.
There are other ways, though.
A spectator is, among other things, a LN creature with int 13, who's capable of communicating via telepathy. If you really want a spectator to help you out, you can talk with the thing, and possibly convince it. The ritual even gives you a way of making one show up and be non-hostile. So, for example, if you're absolutely confident of your ability to bluff the spectator into doing whatever it is that you want it to do in the moment, then binding one to a necklace that you can wear is a pretty reliable way of always having a spectator on hand to bluff.
Alternately, the spell only binds them for 101 years. After they're free of it, they pretty much become free-willed. At the same time, many of them continue to do whatever it was that they were doing before (more or less) out of habit or lingering fondness or some such. If you are particularly long-lived, you might be able to befriend one in the century+ of its servitude, and still have it as a friend when it was done.
None of this will give you guaranteed loyalty or obedience, and it all requires more effort than just "Perform ritual. Receive bodyguard." Still, if what you want is a friendly eyeball-critter, it's possible to befriend an eyeball-critter
Of course, if you're the DM...
Well, a spectator is summoned and bound through a specific ritual that does a specific thing. It would be entirely reasonable to suppose the existence of a similar-but-distinct ritual that did a similar-but-different thing of summoning a spectator (or something very much like a spectator) as a bodyguard. If that's something that you want to have in your game, it's an entirely reasonable thing to have in your game.
answered 3 hours ago
Ben BardenBen Barden
10k12455
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I was thinking that when an enemy gets close to the summoner he could say: "Spectator! They try to kill me in order to take over the necklace, don't let them take closer, destroy them before!" Or if he is being attacked: "Spectator! They are trying to break the necklace. Stop them!"
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
3 hours ago
4
$begingroup$
@EnderLook the spectator doesn't follow commands, though. It just follows the initial set of instructions, and that set of instructions (by RAW) consists entirely of exceptions to the "no one may access this" rule. If they're not trying to access it yet (because they're currently trying to kill you) then it's not the Spectator's issue yet.
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
oh, I was thinking that instead of giving him new orders the wizard could be just reminding him that he must guard the necklace. And since spectators are a bit mad, the Wizard could persuade the spectator to protect him "making it defend the necklace to avoid being taken away". I wanted to know if rules were enough flexibility to allow a clever wizard to manipulate a spectator as a personal guard (even if that wouldn't let friends get close).
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@EnderLook if you have confidence in your ability to manipulate nonhostile spectators into doing what you want them to do, then binding one to a necklace and wearing it around is a way to make sure that you always have a nonhostile spectator around to manipulate, but that's not exactly the same thing as having it serve as your bodyguard.
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@EnderLook I've said that already, multiple times. Yes, you can use a necklace as the target treasure and wear it around. No, it doesn't do the thing you want it to do.
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
2 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
$begingroup$
Spectators are not bodyguards.
In 5e, the rules do what they say they do (and anything else is up to the DM to decide). The target of a Spectator's attention is "a location or treasure". Its remit is "allowing no creature but its summoner to enter the area or access the item..."
A living creature is not a location, not a treasure, not an area, and not an item.
Even if it were, though, it wouldn't have the effect you want. It doesn't bodyguard, it prevents access. Even if it could be assigned to a person it wouldn't be able to distinguish between stabbing them with a knife and shaking their hand. A bodyguard that can't tell the difference between those two things is not a particularly effective bodyguard.
As far as the necklace, that could work. It's a legitimate treasure, no one's stolen it, and nothing says that a Spectator has to stay in one place.
It would certainly help to prevent anyone from stealing the necklace from you, or from taking it off your cooling corpse. On the other hand, it's going to do very little to the part where they convert you into a cooling corpse in the first place. What does it matter to the spectator if someone shoots you full of holes? You're not the one it's guarding.
...and if somehow you convince the spectator that everyone who gets within 20 feet of the necklace is a threat? Well, have fun walking down a city street.
This is not what this tool is for, it is not suited to the purpose, and it won't work.
There are other ways, though.
A spectator is, among other things, a LN creature with int 13, who's capable of communicating via telepathy. If you really want a spectator to help you out, you can talk with the thing, and possibly convince it. The ritual even gives you a way of making one show up and be non-hostile. So, for example, if you're absolutely confident of your ability to bluff the spectator into doing whatever it is that you want it to do in the moment, then binding one to a necklace that you can wear is a pretty reliable way of always having a spectator on hand to bluff.
Alternately, the spell only binds them for 101 years. After they're free of it, they pretty much become free-willed. At the same time, many of them continue to do whatever it was that they were doing before (more or less) out of habit or lingering fondness or some such. If you are particularly long-lived, you might be able to befriend one in the century+ of its servitude, and still have it as a friend when it was done.
None of this will give you guaranteed loyalty or obedience, and it all requires more effort than just "Perform ritual. Receive bodyguard." Still, if what you want is a friendly eyeball-critter, it's possible to befriend an eyeball-critter
Of course, if you're the DM...
Well, a spectator is summoned and bound through a specific ritual that does a specific thing. It would be entirely reasonable to suppose the existence of a similar-but-distinct ritual that did a similar-but-different thing of summoning a spectator (or something very much like a spectator) as a bodyguard. If that's something that you want to have in your game, it's an entirely reasonable thing to have in your game.
answered 3 hours ago
Ben BardenBen Barden
10k12455
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I was thinking that when an enemy gets close to the summoner he could say: "Spectator! They try to kill me in order to take over the necklace, don't let them take closer, destroy them before!" Or if he is being attacked: "Spectator! They are trying to break the necklace. Stop them!"
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
3 hours ago
4
$begingroup$
@EnderLook the spectator doesn't follow commands, though. It just follows the initial set of instructions, and that set of instructions (by RAW) consists entirely of exceptions to the "no one may access this" rule. If they're not trying to access it yet (because they're currently trying to kill you) then it's not the Spectator's issue yet.
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
oh, I was thinking that instead of giving him new orders the wizard could be just reminding him that he must guard the necklace. And since spectators are a bit mad, the Wizard could persuade the spectator to protect him "making it defend the necklace to avoid being taken away". I wanted to know if rules were enough flexibility to allow a clever wizard to manipulate a spectator as a personal guard (even if that wouldn't let friends get close).
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@EnderLook if you have confidence in your ability to manipulate nonhostile spectators into doing what you want them to do, then binding one to a necklace and wearing it around is a way to make sure that you always have a nonhostile spectator around to manipulate, but that's not exactly the same thing as having it serve as your bodyguard.
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@EnderLook I've said that already, multiple times. Yes, you can use a necklace as the target treasure and wear it around. No, it doesn't do the thing you want it to do.
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
2 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
$begingroup$
Spectators are not bodyguards.
In 5e, the rules do what they say they do (and anything else is up to the DM to decide). The target of a Spectator's attention is "a location or treasure". Its remit is "allowing no creature but its summoner to enter the area or access the item..."
A living creature is not a location, not a treasure, not an area, and not an item.
Even if it were, though, it wouldn't have the effect you want. It doesn't bodyguard, it prevents access. Even if it could be assigned to a person it wouldn't be able to distinguish between stabbing them with a knife and shaking their hand. A bodyguard that can't tell the difference between those two things is not a particularly effective bodyguard.
As far as the necklace, that could work. It's a legitimate treasure, no one's stolen it, and nothing says that a Spectator has to stay in one place.
It would certainly help to prevent anyone from stealing the necklace from you, or from taking it off your cooling corpse. On the other hand, it's going to do very little to the part where they convert you into a cooling corpse in the first place. What does it matter to the spectator if someone shoots you full of holes? You're not the one it's guarding.
...and if somehow you convince the spectator that everyone who gets within 20 feet of the necklace is a threat? Well, have fun walking down a city street.
This is not what this tool is for, it is not suited to the purpose, and it won't work.
There are other ways, though.
A spectator is, among other things, a LN creature with int 13, who's capable of communicating via telepathy. If you really want a spectator to help you out, you can talk with the thing, and possibly convince it. The ritual even gives you a way of making one show up and be non-hostile. So, for example, if you're absolutely confident of your ability to bluff the spectator into doing whatever it is that you want it to do in the moment, then binding one to a necklace that you can wear is a pretty reliable way of always having a spectator on hand to bluff.
Alternately, the spell only binds them for 101 years. After they're free of it, they pretty much become free-willed. At the same time, many of them continue to do whatever it was that they were doing before (more or less) out of habit or lingering fondness or some such. If you are particularly long-lived, you might be able to befriend one in the century+ of its servitude, and still have it as a friend when it was done.
None of this will give you guaranteed loyalty or obedience, and it all requires more effort than just "Perform ritual. Receive bodyguard." Still, if what you want is a friendly eyeball-critter, it's possible to befriend an eyeball-critter
Of course, if you're the DM...
Well, a spectator is summoned and bound through a specific ritual that does a specific thing. It would be entirely reasonable to suppose the existence of a similar-but-distinct ritual that did a similar-but-different thing of summoning a spectator (or something very much like a spectator) as a bodyguard. If that's something that you want to have in your game, it's an entirely reasonable thing to have in your game.
answered 3 hours ago
Ben BardenBen Barden
10k12455
$endgroup$
Spectators are not bodyguards.
In 5e, the rules do what they say they do (and anything else is up to the DM to decide). The target of a Spectator's attention is "a location or treasure". Its remit is "allowing no creature but its summoner to enter the area or access the item..."
A living creature is not a location, not a treasure, not an area, and not an item.
Even if it were, though, it wouldn't have the effect you want. It doesn't bodyguard, it prevents access. Even if it could be assigned to a person it wouldn't be able to distinguish between stabbing them with a knife and shaking their hand. A bodyguard that can't tell the difference between those two things is not a particularly effective bodyguard.
As far as the necklace, that could work. It's a legitimate treasure, no one's stolen it, and nothing says that a Spectator has to stay in one place.
It would certainly help to prevent anyone from stealing the necklace from you, or from taking it off your cooling corpse. On the other hand, it's going to do very little to the part where they convert you into a cooling corpse in the first place. What does it matter to the spectator if someone shoots you full of holes? You're not the one it's guarding.
...and if somehow you convince the spectator that everyone who gets within 20 feet of the necklace is a threat? Well, have fun walking down a city street.
This is not what this tool is for, it is not suited to the purpose, and it won't work.
There are other ways, though.
A spectator is, among other things, a LN creature with int 13, who's capable of communicating via telepathy. If you really want a spectator to help you out, you can talk with the thing, and possibly convince it. The ritual even gives you a way of making one show up and be non-hostile. So, for example, if you're absolutely confident of your ability to bluff the spectator into doing whatever it is that you want it to do in the moment, then binding one to a necklace that you can wear is a pretty reliable way of always having a spectator on hand to bluff.
Alternately, the spell only binds them for 101 years. After they're free of it, they pretty much become free-willed. At the same time, many of them continue to do whatever it was that they were doing before (more or less) out of habit or lingering fondness or some such. If you are particularly long-lived, you might be able to befriend one in the century+ of its servitude, and still have it as a friend when it was done.
None of this will give you guaranteed loyalty or obedience, and it all requires more effort than just "Perform ritual. Receive bodyguard." Still, if what you want is a friendly eyeball-critter, it's possible to befriend an eyeball-critter
Of course, if you're the DM...
Well, a spectator is summoned and bound through a specific ritual that does a specific thing. It would be entirely reasonable to suppose the existence of a similar-but-distinct ritual that did a similar-but-different thing of summoning a spectator (or something very much like a spectator) as a bodyguard. If that's something that you want to have in your game, it's an entirely reasonable thing to have in your game.
answered 3 hours ago
Ben BardenBen Barden
10k12455
edited 51 mins ago
answered 3 hours ago
Ben BardenBen Barden
10k12455
answered 3 hours ago
Ben BardenBen Barden
10k12455
answered 3 hours ago
Ben BardenBen Barden
10k12455
10k12455
$begingroup$
I was thinking that when an enemy gets close to the summoner he could say: "Spectator! They try to kill me in order to take over the necklace, don't let them take closer, destroy them before!" Or if he is being attacked: "Spectator! They are trying to break the necklace. Stop them!"
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
3 hours ago
4
$begingroup$
@EnderLook the spectator doesn't follow commands, though. It just follows the initial set of instructions, and that set of instructions (by RAW) consists entirely of exceptions to the "no one may access this" rule. If they're not trying to access it yet (because they're currently trying to kill you) then it's not the Spectator's issue yet.
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
oh, I was thinking that instead of giving him new orders the wizard could be just reminding him that he must guard the necklace. And since spectators are a bit mad, the Wizard could persuade the spectator to protect him "making it defend the necklace to avoid being taken away". I wanted to know if rules were enough flexibility to allow a clever wizard to manipulate a spectator as a personal guard (even if that wouldn't let friends get close).
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@EnderLook if you have confidence in your ability to manipulate nonhostile spectators into doing what you want them to do, then binding one to a necklace and wearing it around is a way to make sure that you always have a nonhostile spectator around to manipulate, but that's not exactly the same thing as having it serve as your bodyguard.
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@EnderLook I've said that already, multiple times. Yes, you can use a necklace as the target treasure and wear it around. No, it doesn't do the thing you want it to do.
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
2 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
$begingroup$
I was thinking that when an enemy gets close to the summoner he could say: "Spectator! They try to kill me in order to take over the necklace, don't let them take closer, destroy them before!" Or if he is being attacked: "Spectator! They are trying to break the necklace. Stop them!"
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
3 hours ago
4
$begingroup$
@EnderLook the spectator doesn't follow commands, though. It just follows the initial set of instructions, and that set of instructions (by RAW) consists entirely of exceptions to the "no one may access this" rule. If they're not trying to access it yet (because they're currently trying to kill you) then it's not the Spectator's issue yet.
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
oh, I was thinking that instead of giving him new orders the wizard could be just reminding him that he must guard the necklace. And since spectators are a bit mad, the Wizard could persuade the spectator to protect him "making it defend the necklace to avoid being taken away". I wanted to know if rules were enough flexibility to allow a clever wizard to manipulate a spectator as a personal guard (even if that wouldn't let friends get close).
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@EnderLook if you have confidence in your ability to manipulate nonhostile spectators into doing what you want them to do, then binding one to a necklace and wearing it around is a way to make sure that you always have a nonhostile spectator around to manipulate, but that's not exactly the same thing as having it serve as your bodyguard.
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@EnderLook I've said that already, multiple times. Yes, you can use a necklace as the target treasure and wear it around. No, it doesn't do the thing you want it to do.
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
I was thinking that when an enemy gets close to the summoner he could say: "Spectator! They try to kill me in order to take over the necklace, don't let them take closer, destroy them before!" Or if he is being attacked: "Spectator! They are trying to break the necklace. Stop them!"
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
I was thinking that when an enemy gets close to the summoner he could say: "Spectator! They try to kill me in order to take over the necklace, don't let them take closer, destroy them before!" Or if he is being attacked: "Spectator! They are trying to break the necklace. Stop them!"
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
3 hours ago
4
4
$begingroup$
@EnderLook the spectator doesn't follow commands, though. It just follows the initial set of instructions, and that set of instructions (by RAW) consists entirely of exceptions to the "no one may access this" rule. If they're not trying to access it yet (because they're currently trying to kill you) then it's not the Spectator's issue yet.
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@EnderLook the spectator doesn't follow commands, though. It just follows the initial set of instructions, and that set of instructions (by RAW) consists entirely of exceptions to the "no one may access this" rule. If they're not trying to access it yet (because they're currently trying to kill you) then it's not the Spectator's issue yet.
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
oh, I was thinking that instead of giving him new orders the wizard could be just reminding him that he must guard the necklace. And since spectators are a bit mad, the Wizard could persuade the spectator to protect him "making it defend the necklace to avoid being taken away". I wanted to know if rules were enough flexibility to allow a clever wizard to manipulate a spectator as a personal guard (even if that wouldn't let friends get close).
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
oh, I was thinking that instead of giving him new orders the wizard could be just reminding him that he must guard the necklace. And since spectators are a bit mad, the Wizard could persuade the spectator to protect him "making it defend the necklace to avoid being taken away". I wanted to know if rules were enough flexibility to allow a clever wizard to manipulate a spectator as a personal guard (even if that wouldn't let friends get close).
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
3 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@EnderLook if you have confidence in your ability to manipulate nonhostile spectators into doing what you want them to do, then binding one to a necklace and wearing it around is a way to make sure that you always have a nonhostile spectator around to manipulate, but that's not exactly the same thing as having it serve as your bodyguard.
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@EnderLook if you have confidence in your ability to manipulate nonhostile spectators into doing what you want them to do, then binding one to a necklace and wearing it around is a way to make sure that you always have a nonhostile spectator around to manipulate, but that's not exactly the same thing as having it serve as your bodyguard.
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
3 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@EnderLook I've said that already, multiple times. Yes, you can use a necklace as the target treasure and wear it around. No, it doesn't do the thing you want it to do.
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@EnderLook I've said that already, multiple times. Yes, you can use a necklace as the target treasure and wear it around. No, it doesn't do the thing you want it to do.
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
2 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
Thanks for contributing an answer to Role-playing Games Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f142102%2fcan-a-spectator-be-a-bodyguard-so-can-its-treasure-item-to-guard-be-a-person-p%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
$begingroup$
Why the downvote? If you explain me, I could try to mend it.
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch, I'm no longer making the assumption about the PC. I'm quoting an NPC from Lost mine of Phandelver.
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Are you just asking if, as a DM, you can have an NPC with a spectator working as a bodyguard?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch mmm, yes. As a DM, of course, I could do that, but I wanted to know if mechanically speaking is possible. If it's possible, I would like in the future ask if this can also be extended to PC, but that for another question.
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@NautArch Ok. Give me a minute and I will re-edit it
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
3 hours ago