Why not constant linear velocity floppies?












7















The outer tracks of a disk are longer than the inner tracks, and could therefore potentially hold more data. Constant angular velocity puts the same number of bits on every track, which wastes much of the potential capacity of the disk. A solution to this problem is constant linear velocity (CLV) which varies the motor speed such that the head can spend more time on the outer tracks and therefore record more data.



But as the linked article indicates, while this is used on optical disks, it has generally not been used on floppy disks. Why not? They would certainly have gained great benefit from more capacity.



It would have added more complexity to the drive controller, but intuitively, this seems unlikely to add significantly to the total cost.



Wikipedia says 'seek performance would be greatly affected during random access by the requirement to continually modulate the disk's rotation speed to be appropriate for the read head's position'. Why? And how much slowdown? Intuitively I would rather the drive spend an extra tenth of a second seeking, than require me to spend an extra ten seconds manually swapping disks because one disk didn't have enough capacity.



Is there another consideration I am missing?










share|improve this question




















  • 2





    There were disks that used at least speed zones .. e.g. for the commodore 1541 dirve and for old macintoshs ...

    – Felix Palmen
    5 hours ago






  • 3





    Commodore, at least, has four speed zones but avoids the slow seek problem by rotating the disk at a constant velocity. It just changes its data rate.

    – Tommy
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    what @Tommy said, so it's not exactly the same. The macintosh format IIRC uses different rotation speeds for the zones, but I'm still looking for a source...

    – Felix Palmen
    5 hours ago






  • 2





    @Wilson found it here: support.apple.com/kb/TA39910?locale=en_US&viewlocale=en_US -- so some apple drives had 5 speed zones and indeed changed rotation speed. the commodore 1541 had 4 speed zones, but changed bitrate with a constant rotation speed.

    – Felix Palmen
    5 hours ago








  • 1





    Wouldn't have worked with hard-sectored disks. But those were not very common anyhow.

    – tofro
    4 hours ago
















7















The outer tracks of a disk are longer than the inner tracks, and could therefore potentially hold more data. Constant angular velocity puts the same number of bits on every track, which wastes much of the potential capacity of the disk. A solution to this problem is constant linear velocity (CLV) which varies the motor speed such that the head can spend more time on the outer tracks and therefore record more data.



But as the linked article indicates, while this is used on optical disks, it has generally not been used on floppy disks. Why not? They would certainly have gained great benefit from more capacity.



It would have added more complexity to the drive controller, but intuitively, this seems unlikely to add significantly to the total cost.



Wikipedia says 'seek performance would be greatly affected during random access by the requirement to continually modulate the disk's rotation speed to be appropriate for the read head's position'. Why? And how much slowdown? Intuitively I would rather the drive spend an extra tenth of a second seeking, than require me to spend an extra ten seconds manually swapping disks because one disk didn't have enough capacity.



Is there another consideration I am missing?










share|improve this question




















  • 2





    There were disks that used at least speed zones .. e.g. for the commodore 1541 dirve and for old macintoshs ...

    – Felix Palmen
    5 hours ago






  • 3





    Commodore, at least, has four speed zones but avoids the slow seek problem by rotating the disk at a constant velocity. It just changes its data rate.

    – Tommy
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    what @Tommy said, so it's not exactly the same. The macintosh format IIRC uses different rotation speeds for the zones, but I'm still looking for a source...

    – Felix Palmen
    5 hours ago






  • 2





    @Wilson found it here: support.apple.com/kb/TA39910?locale=en_US&viewlocale=en_US -- so some apple drives had 5 speed zones and indeed changed rotation speed. the commodore 1541 had 4 speed zones, but changed bitrate with a constant rotation speed.

    – Felix Palmen
    5 hours ago








  • 1





    Wouldn't have worked with hard-sectored disks. But those were not very common anyhow.

    – tofro
    4 hours ago














7












7








7


1






The outer tracks of a disk are longer than the inner tracks, and could therefore potentially hold more data. Constant angular velocity puts the same number of bits on every track, which wastes much of the potential capacity of the disk. A solution to this problem is constant linear velocity (CLV) which varies the motor speed such that the head can spend more time on the outer tracks and therefore record more data.



But as the linked article indicates, while this is used on optical disks, it has generally not been used on floppy disks. Why not? They would certainly have gained great benefit from more capacity.



It would have added more complexity to the drive controller, but intuitively, this seems unlikely to add significantly to the total cost.



Wikipedia says 'seek performance would be greatly affected during random access by the requirement to continually modulate the disk's rotation speed to be appropriate for the read head's position'. Why? And how much slowdown? Intuitively I would rather the drive spend an extra tenth of a second seeking, than require me to spend an extra ten seconds manually swapping disks because one disk didn't have enough capacity.



Is there another consideration I am missing?










share|improve this question
















The outer tracks of a disk are longer than the inner tracks, and could therefore potentially hold more data. Constant angular velocity puts the same number of bits on every track, which wastes much of the potential capacity of the disk. A solution to this problem is constant linear velocity (CLV) which varies the motor speed such that the head can spend more time on the outer tracks and therefore record more data.



But as the linked article indicates, while this is used on optical disks, it has generally not been used on floppy disks. Why not? They would certainly have gained great benefit from more capacity.



It would have added more complexity to the drive controller, but intuitively, this seems unlikely to add significantly to the total cost.



Wikipedia says 'seek performance would be greatly affected during random access by the requirement to continually modulate the disk's rotation speed to be appropriate for the read head's position'. Why? And how much slowdown? Intuitively I would rather the drive spend an extra tenth of a second seeking, than require me to spend an extra ten seconds manually swapping disks because one disk didn't have enough capacity.



Is there another consideration I am missing?







hardware floppy-disk






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 7 mins ago









wizzwizz4

8,354639108




8,354639108










asked 6 hours ago









rwallacerwallace

8,674444122




8,674444122








  • 2





    There were disks that used at least speed zones .. e.g. for the commodore 1541 dirve and for old macintoshs ...

    – Felix Palmen
    5 hours ago






  • 3





    Commodore, at least, has four speed zones but avoids the slow seek problem by rotating the disk at a constant velocity. It just changes its data rate.

    – Tommy
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    what @Tommy said, so it's not exactly the same. The macintosh format IIRC uses different rotation speeds for the zones, but I'm still looking for a source...

    – Felix Palmen
    5 hours ago






  • 2





    @Wilson found it here: support.apple.com/kb/TA39910?locale=en_US&viewlocale=en_US -- so some apple drives had 5 speed zones and indeed changed rotation speed. the commodore 1541 had 4 speed zones, but changed bitrate with a constant rotation speed.

    – Felix Palmen
    5 hours ago








  • 1





    Wouldn't have worked with hard-sectored disks. But those were not very common anyhow.

    – tofro
    4 hours ago














  • 2





    There were disks that used at least speed zones .. e.g. for the commodore 1541 dirve and for old macintoshs ...

    – Felix Palmen
    5 hours ago






  • 3





    Commodore, at least, has four speed zones but avoids the slow seek problem by rotating the disk at a constant velocity. It just changes its data rate.

    – Tommy
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    what @Tommy said, so it's not exactly the same. The macintosh format IIRC uses different rotation speeds for the zones, but I'm still looking for a source...

    – Felix Palmen
    5 hours ago






  • 2





    @Wilson found it here: support.apple.com/kb/TA39910?locale=en_US&viewlocale=en_US -- so some apple drives had 5 speed zones and indeed changed rotation speed. the commodore 1541 had 4 speed zones, but changed bitrate with a constant rotation speed.

    – Felix Palmen
    5 hours ago








  • 1





    Wouldn't have worked with hard-sectored disks. But those were not very common anyhow.

    – tofro
    4 hours ago








2




2





There were disks that used at least speed zones .. e.g. for the commodore 1541 dirve and for old macintoshs ...

– Felix Palmen
5 hours ago





There were disks that used at least speed zones .. e.g. for the commodore 1541 dirve and for old macintoshs ...

– Felix Palmen
5 hours ago




3




3





Commodore, at least, has four speed zones but avoids the slow seek problem by rotating the disk at a constant velocity. It just changes its data rate.

– Tommy
5 hours ago





Commodore, at least, has four speed zones but avoids the slow seek problem by rotating the disk at a constant velocity. It just changes its data rate.

– Tommy
5 hours ago




1




1





what @Tommy said, so it's not exactly the same. The macintosh format IIRC uses different rotation speeds for the zones, but I'm still looking for a source...

– Felix Palmen
5 hours ago





what @Tommy said, so it's not exactly the same. The macintosh format IIRC uses different rotation speeds for the zones, but I'm still looking for a source...

– Felix Palmen
5 hours ago




2




2





@Wilson found it here: support.apple.com/kb/TA39910?locale=en_US&viewlocale=en_US -- so some apple drives had 5 speed zones and indeed changed rotation speed. the commodore 1541 had 4 speed zones, but changed bitrate with a constant rotation speed.

– Felix Palmen
5 hours ago







@Wilson found it here: support.apple.com/kb/TA39910?locale=en_US&viewlocale=en_US -- so some apple drives had 5 speed zones and indeed changed rotation speed. the commodore 1541 had 4 speed zones, but changed bitrate with a constant rotation speed.

– Felix Palmen
5 hours ago






1




1





Wouldn't have worked with hard-sectored disks. But those were not very common anyhow.

– tofro
4 hours ago





Wouldn't have worked with hard-sectored disks. But those were not very common anyhow.

– tofro
4 hours ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















9















But as the linked article indicates, while this is used on optical disks, it has generally not been used on floppy disks.




It has. Apple's famous Twiggy drive was one attempt to do so. It featured 6 different zones with 15 to 21 sectors per track. As a result some 120 additional sectors per side (or 100KiB per disk) could be used. To keep the data rate constant rotation varied between 394 (outer tracks) and 590 (inner tracks) RPM.



With the switch to 3.5 inch drives on the Lisa and later Mac this idea was the reason for Apple to develop their own format (*1) using a Sony drive. In fact, controller and parameters kept mostly the same (394-590 RPM), except now it was 8-12 sectors due the shorter track length of a 3.5 inch drive. Set off by using 80 instead of 46 tracks, so a single-sided 3.5 inch drive did hold 400 Kib, while a dual sided Twiggy had ~850 KiB



And then there is one really widespread use of the basic idea, even predating the Twiggy: The Commodore drives (*2) starting with the PETs 2031, but most notably the 1541, all 170 KiB drives used to write different zones of 17 to 21 sectors per track. But instead of running the disk at different speeds the data rate was varied to the same result (AFAIR).



Other companies/developers toyed with the same idea as Apple, for example the Sirius(*3) did so as well, increasing standard 500 KiB (unformatted) capacity per side to 600 KiB. And instead of asking to buy 'special' media, to make it happen, standard diskettes could be used. Then again it's not Chuck Peddle's brain child - the same man who was behind the PET development :))




Why not? They would certainly have gained great benefit from more capacity.




The benefit of some 10-15% increased capacity (*4) got several drawbacks:





  • Track switch speed (as mentioned) will increase whenever a zone border is crossed and the motor speed needs to be changed. While not as much as spinning up from stand, it may take several turns to stabilize. After all, we got real motors and real masses to accelerate or decelerate here.




    • This got offset a with the introduction of direct drive and smaller disk sizes, but not much.

    • To counter the cost, not every track was handled different, but zones where used (*5).



  • Increased cost for motor control on the drive side


  • Increased cost for motor control on the controller side

  • Introduction of a non standard interface, as the existing interface had no motor control lines beside on and off


Especially the latter was an even greater turn-off than increased cost for manufacturers. Offering more size is only a minor advertisement feat, increased cost may be handed to that (*6), but non-standard interface means hard migration into uncharted territory - even more so being tied to this non-standard manufacturer (of the drives). Nothing CEOs like.



The 3.5 inch drive itself is a major example here, as it only took off after stripping everything 'new' but the size and making it compatible with the existing 5.25 drives.



The alternative to modify the data rate would have offset some of the drawbacks, but required new controller chips and different analogue setup - also more delicate, as data rate and head gap are related.




Intuitively I would rather the drive spend an extra tenth of a second seeking, than require me to spend an extra ten seconds manually swapping disks because one disk didn't have enough capacity.




Sure thing - except, with a gain of only ~15% in size (*4 again), the saving isn't much and you'll swap soon again. With diskette sizes it's much like with CPU speed. Every thing less than doubling is hard to notice.





*1 - Keep in mind, this was before the standardisation of 3.5" drives.



*2 - Thanks to Felix Palmen for reminding.



*3 - Wilson digged out the corresponding patent.



*4 - Just pull out your geometry books and calculate the difference in diameter of a circle with 1.354 inches and 2.25 inches (for 5.25 inch drives) or 0.9719 inches to 1.5551 inches (for 3.5 inch drives) - or be lazy and just divide them to get a factor telling the relative length increase.



Also keep in mind that only whole blocks will work, so only if it's increased by at least ~1/16th for 5.25 or 1/8th for 3.4 a new block can be added to a track.



*5 - Which as well makes sense for blocked structures with fixed block length.



*6 - And soon offset new cheap(er) integrated solutions.






share|improve this answer


























  • Very good points! The extra capacity for 3.5" would only be 30%, because the range of track radii used is so surprisingly small, only 0.58 out of 1.75". But why is the range used so small? Could that be because of CAV? Could a CLV drive use a larger range?

    – rwallace
    4 hours ago






  • 2





    @rwallace As you try to go closer to the center, you have a shorter track length so fewer sectors per track, and you need faster motor speeds to keep the same data transfer rate. The faster speeds will put more stress on the whole disk area through friction between the disk and the casing and cause more "wobble" through out of balance disks. CDs can use a larger range since they are rigid and have no mechanical contact with the disk for reading and writing,

    – alephzero
    3 hours ago











  • @alephzero Good point! But per retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/drive.html the Mac went up to 590 rpm compared to the usual 300, so it seems there is some leeway there.

    – rwallace
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    @rwallace Keep in mind that a head and a head mount still needs space inside the slot. Leaving off 1.5 cm seams reasonable.

    – Raffzahn
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    You forgot the physical size of the read/write head, which was huge compared with a hard disk head because it has to physically hold the disk materal flat. See kids.kiddle.co/Floppy_disk (near the bottom) for pictures.

    – alephzero
    3 hours ago



















2














At least one computer does (something close to) what you are describing, and there is a relevant patent.



Wikipedia claims:




But disks made at constant bit density were not compatible with machines with standard drives.




And this is apparently supported by a dead-tree citation. I read the sentence as meaning that the drives need special disks. So my guess is that because these drives never caught on, the disks didn't -- it was a chicken-and-egg problem that caused this implementation of the technique not to gain much market share or traction in the industry.



And perhaps because of the patent, no-one else tried to make a CLV floppy drive as far as I can tell.






share|improve this answer





















  • 1





    Good find, thanks! I would expect the sentence to mean you can use the same blank disks, but disks written on one kind of drive cannot be read on the other kind.

    – rwallace
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    AFAIR Apples Twiggy drive did so before.

    – Raffzahn
    4 hours ago






  • 1





    @Raffzahn before the Sirius 9000? So why did they award the patent?

    – Wilson
    4 hours ago






  • 3





    @Wilson That's something you may want to ask the patent office :)) According to Andy Herzfelds story the Twiggy drives where developed in 1981. The Lisa (with twiggys) went on sale in January 1983. The Patent was filed in October 1982. It's safe to assume that the twiggies weren't developed 3 month from idea to deivery, so I guess it's eitehr invalid by prior atr, or it's claims are more subtile on vertain parts of the logic - something different from the wy Apple (or commodore) did it.

    – Raffzahn
    3 hours ago



















2














During the hay-day of floppy drives the technology needed to do CLV was rather expensive. Writing/reading data at a fixed rate and running a motor at a fixes speed is the cheapest option. Variable speed oscillators were uncommon and not generally available as single integrated circuits.



At the time cost tended to be the most important factor, as computers were still very expensive and many people were still using tapes for storage, a floppy drive was relatively fast and spacious.



The gains were also somewhat marginal. Consider that Apple's expensive "Twiggy" drives. They proved unreliable and could only store 871k of data on a 5.25" disk. Sony had already released its 3.5" format two years earlier, and with double density disks computers were able to store 880k on them. They quickly became popular and cheap.



I'm not convinced about Wikipedia's claim that speed changes would have had a big influence on seek times. Floppy disks have a lot more friction and run at much lower speeds than optical media where these speed changes do reduce seek performance.






share|improve this answer





















  • 1





    Spinning up and down to speed and waiting for the drive to settle did take longer than running the drive motor at a fixed speed. Maybe it's the age of my drive but on my Apple IIgs there's a marked delay between the drive speed changing and the track stepper moving.

    – scruss
    2 hours ago











  • Sure, but not as much as with a DVD or similar optical disc. The speed change is slow enough that you can hear it ramping up. Floppy disks rotate at a much lower speed and go from zero to operating speed in a few hundred milliseconds at most.

    – user
    1 hour ago











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3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes








3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









9















But as the linked article indicates, while this is used on optical disks, it has generally not been used on floppy disks.




It has. Apple's famous Twiggy drive was one attempt to do so. It featured 6 different zones with 15 to 21 sectors per track. As a result some 120 additional sectors per side (or 100KiB per disk) could be used. To keep the data rate constant rotation varied between 394 (outer tracks) and 590 (inner tracks) RPM.



With the switch to 3.5 inch drives on the Lisa and later Mac this idea was the reason for Apple to develop their own format (*1) using a Sony drive. In fact, controller and parameters kept mostly the same (394-590 RPM), except now it was 8-12 sectors due the shorter track length of a 3.5 inch drive. Set off by using 80 instead of 46 tracks, so a single-sided 3.5 inch drive did hold 400 Kib, while a dual sided Twiggy had ~850 KiB



And then there is one really widespread use of the basic idea, even predating the Twiggy: The Commodore drives (*2) starting with the PETs 2031, but most notably the 1541, all 170 KiB drives used to write different zones of 17 to 21 sectors per track. But instead of running the disk at different speeds the data rate was varied to the same result (AFAIR).



Other companies/developers toyed with the same idea as Apple, for example the Sirius(*3) did so as well, increasing standard 500 KiB (unformatted) capacity per side to 600 KiB. And instead of asking to buy 'special' media, to make it happen, standard diskettes could be used. Then again it's not Chuck Peddle's brain child - the same man who was behind the PET development :))




Why not? They would certainly have gained great benefit from more capacity.




The benefit of some 10-15% increased capacity (*4) got several drawbacks:





  • Track switch speed (as mentioned) will increase whenever a zone border is crossed and the motor speed needs to be changed. While not as much as spinning up from stand, it may take several turns to stabilize. After all, we got real motors and real masses to accelerate or decelerate here.




    • This got offset a with the introduction of direct drive and smaller disk sizes, but not much.

    • To counter the cost, not every track was handled different, but zones where used (*5).



  • Increased cost for motor control on the drive side


  • Increased cost for motor control on the controller side

  • Introduction of a non standard interface, as the existing interface had no motor control lines beside on and off


Especially the latter was an even greater turn-off than increased cost for manufacturers. Offering more size is only a minor advertisement feat, increased cost may be handed to that (*6), but non-standard interface means hard migration into uncharted territory - even more so being tied to this non-standard manufacturer (of the drives). Nothing CEOs like.



The 3.5 inch drive itself is a major example here, as it only took off after stripping everything 'new' but the size and making it compatible with the existing 5.25 drives.



The alternative to modify the data rate would have offset some of the drawbacks, but required new controller chips and different analogue setup - also more delicate, as data rate and head gap are related.




Intuitively I would rather the drive spend an extra tenth of a second seeking, than require me to spend an extra ten seconds manually swapping disks because one disk didn't have enough capacity.




Sure thing - except, with a gain of only ~15% in size (*4 again), the saving isn't much and you'll swap soon again. With diskette sizes it's much like with CPU speed. Every thing less than doubling is hard to notice.





*1 - Keep in mind, this was before the standardisation of 3.5" drives.



*2 - Thanks to Felix Palmen for reminding.



*3 - Wilson digged out the corresponding patent.



*4 - Just pull out your geometry books and calculate the difference in diameter of a circle with 1.354 inches and 2.25 inches (for 5.25 inch drives) or 0.9719 inches to 1.5551 inches (for 3.5 inch drives) - or be lazy and just divide them to get a factor telling the relative length increase.



Also keep in mind that only whole blocks will work, so only if it's increased by at least ~1/16th for 5.25 or 1/8th for 3.4 a new block can be added to a track.



*5 - Which as well makes sense for blocked structures with fixed block length.



*6 - And soon offset new cheap(er) integrated solutions.






share|improve this answer


























  • Very good points! The extra capacity for 3.5" would only be 30%, because the range of track radii used is so surprisingly small, only 0.58 out of 1.75". But why is the range used so small? Could that be because of CAV? Could a CLV drive use a larger range?

    – rwallace
    4 hours ago






  • 2





    @rwallace As you try to go closer to the center, you have a shorter track length so fewer sectors per track, and you need faster motor speeds to keep the same data transfer rate. The faster speeds will put more stress on the whole disk area through friction between the disk and the casing and cause more "wobble" through out of balance disks. CDs can use a larger range since they are rigid and have no mechanical contact with the disk for reading and writing,

    – alephzero
    3 hours ago











  • @alephzero Good point! But per retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/drive.html the Mac went up to 590 rpm compared to the usual 300, so it seems there is some leeway there.

    – rwallace
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    @rwallace Keep in mind that a head and a head mount still needs space inside the slot. Leaving off 1.5 cm seams reasonable.

    – Raffzahn
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    You forgot the physical size of the read/write head, which was huge compared with a hard disk head because it has to physically hold the disk materal flat. See kids.kiddle.co/Floppy_disk (near the bottom) for pictures.

    – alephzero
    3 hours ago
















9















But as the linked article indicates, while this is used on optical disks, it has generally not been used on floppy disks.




It has. Apple's famous Twiggy drive was one attempt to do so. It featured 6 different zones with 15 to 21 sectors per track. As a result some 120 additional sectors per side (or 100KiB per disk) could be used. To keep the data rate constant rotation varied between 394 (outer tracks) and 590 (inner tracks) RPM.



With the switch to 3.5 inch drives on the Lisa and later Mac this idea was the reason for Apple to develop their own format (*1) using a Sony drive. In fact, controller and parameters kept mostly the same (394-590 RPM), except now it was 8-12 sectors due the shorter track length of a 3.5 inch drive. Set off by using 80 instead of 46 tracks, so a single-sided 3.5 inch drive did hold 400 Kib, while a dual sided Twiggy had ~850 KiB



And then there is one really widespread use of the basic idea, even predating the Twiggy: The Commodore drives (*2) starting with the PETs 2031, but most notably the 1541, all 170 KiB drives used to write different zones of 17 to 21 sectors per track. But instead of running the disk at different speeds the data rate was varied to the same result (AFAIR).



Other companies/developers toyed with the same idea as Apple, for example the Sirius(*3) did so as well, increasing standard 500 KiB (unformatted) capacity per side to 600 KiB. And instead of asking to buy 'special' media, to make it happen, standard diskettes could be used. Then again it's not Chuck Peddle's brain child - the same man who was behind the PET development :))




Why not? They would certainly have gained great benefit from more capacity.




The benefit of some 10-15% increased capacity (*4) got several drawbacks:





  • Track switch speed (as mentioned) will increase whenever a zone border is crossed and the motor speed needs to be changed. While not as much as spinning up from stand, it may take several turns to stabilize. After all, we got real motors and real masses to accelerate or decelerate here.




    • This got offset a with the introduction of direct drive and smaller disk sizes, but not much.

    • To counter the cost, not every track was handled different, but zones where used (*5).



  • Increased cost for motor control on the drive side


  • Increased cost for motor control on the controller side

  • Introduction of a non standard interface, as the existing interface had no motor control lines beside on and off


Especially the latter was an even greater turn-off than increased cost for manufacturers. Offering more size is only a minor advertisement feat, increased cost may be handed to that (*6), but non-standard interface means hard migration into uncharted territory - even more so being tied to this non-standard manufacturer (of the drives). Nothing CEOs like.



The 3.5 inch drive itself is a major example here, as it only took off after stripping everything 'new' but the size and making it compatible with the existing 5.25 drives.



The alternative to modify the data rate would have offset some of the drawbacks, but required new controller chips and different analogue setup - also more delicate, as data rate and head gap are related.




Intuitively I would rather the drive spend an extra tenth of a second seeking, than require me to spend an extra ten seconds manually swapping disks because one disk didn't have enough capacity.




Sure thing - except, with a gain of only ~15% in size (*4 again), the saving isn't much and you'll swap soon again. With diskette sizes it's much like with CPU speed. Every thing less than doubling is hard to notice.





*1 - Keep in mind, this was before the standardisation of 3.5" drives.



*2 - Thanks to Felix Palmen for reminding.



*3 - Wilson digged out the corresponding patent.



*4 - Just pull out your geometry books and calculate the difference in diameter of a circle with 1.354 inches and 2.25 inches (for 5.25 inch drives) or 0.9719 inches to 1.5551 inches (for 3.5 inch drives) - or be lazy and just divide them to get a factor telling the relative length increase.



Also keep in mind that only whole blocks will work, so only if it's increased by at least ~1/16th for 5.25 or 1/8th for 3.4 a new block can be added to a track.



*5 - Which as well makes sense for blocked structures with fixed block length.



*6 - And soon offset new cheap(er) integrated solutions.






share|improve this answer


























  • Very good points! The extra capacity for 3.5" would only be 30%, because the range of track radii used is so surprisingly small, only 0.58 out of 1.75". But why is the range used so small? Could that be because of CAV? Could a CLV drive use a larger range?

    – rwallace
    4 hours ago






  • 2





    @rwallace As you try to go closer to the center, you have a shorter track length so fewer sectors per track, and you need faster motor speeds to keep the same data transfer rate. The faster speeds will put more stress on the whole disk area through friction between the disk and the casing and cause more "wobble" through out of balance disks. CDs can use a larger range since they are rigid and have no mechanical contact with the disk for reading and writing,

    – alephzero
    3 hours ago











  • @alephzero Good point! But per retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/drive.html the Mac went up to 590 rpm compared to the usual 300, so it seems there is some leeway there.

    – rwallace
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    @rwallace Keep in mind that a head and a head mount still needs space inside the slot. Leaving off 1.5 cm seams reasonable.

    – Raffzahn
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    You forgot the physical size of the read/write head, which was huge compared with a hard disk head because it has to physically hold the disk materal flat. See kids.kiddle.co/Floppy_disk (near the bottom) for pictures.

    – alephzero
    3 hours ago














9












9








9








But as the linked article indicates, while this is used on optical disks, it has generally not been used on floppy disks.




It has. Apple's famous Twiggy drive was one attempt to do so. It featured 6 different zones with 15 to 21 sectors per track. As a result some 120 additional sectors per side (or 100KiB per disk) could be used. To keep the data rate constant rotation varied between 394 (outer tracks) and 590 (inner tracks) RPM.



With the switch to 3.5 inch drives on the Lisa and later Mac this idea was the reason for Apple to develop their own format (*1) using a Sony drive. In fact, controller and parameters kept mostly the same (394-590 RPM), except now it was 8-12 sectors due the shorter track length of a 3.5 inch drive. Set off by using 80 instead of 46 tracks, so a single-sided 3.5 inch drive did hold 400 Kib, while a dual sided Twiggy had ~850 KiB



And then there is one really widespread use of the basic idea, even predating the Twiggy: The Commodore drives (*2) starting with the PETs 2031, but most notably the 1541, all 170 KiB drives used to write different zones of 17 to 21 sectors per track. But instead of running the disk at different speeds the data rate was varied to the same result (AFAIR).



Other companies/developers toyed with the same idea as Apple, for example the Sirius(*3) did so as well, increasing standard 500 KiB (unformatted) capacity per side to 600 KiB. And instead of asking to buy 'special' media, to make it happen, standard diskettes could be used. Then again it's not Chuck Peddle's brain child - the same man who was behind the PET development :))




Why not? They would certainly have gained great benefit from more capacity.




The benefit of some 10-15% increased capacity (*4) got several drawbacks:





  • Track switch speed (as mentioned) will increase whenever a zone border is crossed and the motor speed needs to be changed. While not as much as spinning up from stand, it may take several turns to stabilize. After all, we got real motors and real masses to accelerate or decelerate here.




    • This got offset a with the introduction of direct drive and smaller disk sizes, but not much.

    • To counter the cost, not every track was handled different, but zones where used (*5).



  • Increased cost for motor control on the drive side


  • Increased cost for motor control on the controller side

  • Introduction of a non standard interface, as the existing interface had no motor control lines beside on and off


Especially the latter was an even greater turn-off than increased cost for manufacturers. Offering more size is only a minor advertisement feat, increased cost may be handed to that (*6), but non-standard interface means hard migration into uncharted territory - even more so being tied to this non-standard manufacturer (of the drives). Nothing CEOs like.



The 3.5 inch drive itself is a major example here, as it only took off after stripping everything 'new' but the size and making it compatible with the existing 5.25 drives.



The alternative to modify the data rate would have offset some of the drawbacks, but required new controller chips and different analogue setup - also more delicate, as data rate and head gap are related.




Intuitively I would rather the drive spend an extra tenth of a second seeking, than require me to spend an extra ten seconds manually swapping disks because one disk didn't have enough capacity.




Sure thing - except, with a gain of only ~15% in size (*4 again), the saving isn't much and you'll swap soon again. With diskette sizes it's much like with CPU speed. Every thing less than doubling is hard to notice.





*1 - Keep in mind, this was before the standardisation of 3.5" drives.



*2 - Thanks to Felix Palmen for reminding.



*3 - Wilson digged out the corresponding patent.



*4 - Just pull out your geometry books and calculate the difference in diameter of a circle with 1.354 inches and 2.25 inches (for 5.25 inch drives) or 0.9719 inches to 1.5551 inches (for 3.5 inch drives) - or be lazy and just divide them to get a factor telling the relative length increase.



Also keep in mind that only whole blocks will work, so only if it's increased by at least ~1/16th for 5.25 or 1/8th for 3.4 a new block can be added to a track.



*5 - Which as well makes sense for blocked structures with fixed block length.



*6 - And soon offset new cheap(er) integrated solutions.






share|improve this answer
















But as the linked article indicates, while this is used on optical disks, it has generally not been used on floppy disks.




It has. Apple's famous Twiggy drive was one attempt to do so. It featured 6 different zones with 15 to 21 sectors per track. As a result some 120 additional sectors per side (or 100KiB per disk) could be used. To keep the data rate constant rotation varied between 394 (outer tracks) and 590 (inner tracks) RPM.



With the switch to 3.5 inch drives on the Lisa and later Mac this idea was the reason for Apple to develop their own format (*1) using a Sony drive. In fact, controller and parameters kept mostly the same (394-590 RPM), except now it was 8-12 sectors due the shorter track length of a 3.5 inch drive. Set off by using 80 instead of 46 tracks, so a single-sided 3.5 inch drive did hold 400 Kib, while a dual sided Twiggy had ~850 KiB



And then there is one really widespread use of the basic idea, even predating the Twiggy: The Commodore drives (*2) starting with the PETs 2031, but most notably the 1541, all 170 KiB drives used to write different zones of 17 to 21 sectors per track. But instead of running the disk at different speeds the data rate was varied to the same result (AFAIR).



Other companies/developers toyed with the same idea as Apple, for example the Sirius(*3) did so as well, increasing standard 500 KiB (unformatted) capacity per side to 600 KiB. And instead of asking to buy 'special' media, to make it happen, standard diskettes could be used. Then again it's not Chuck Peddle's brain child - the same man who was behind the PET development :))




Why not? They would certainly have gained great benefit from more capacity.




The benefit of some 10-15% increased capacity (*4) got several drawbacks:





  • Track switch speed (as mentioned) will increase whenever a zone border is crossed and the motor speed needs to be changed. While not as much as spinning up from stand, it may take several turns to stabilize. After all, we got real motors and real masses to accelerate or decelerate here.




    • This got offset a with the introduction of direct drive and smaller disk sizes, but not much.

    • To counter the cost, not every track was handled different, but zones where used (*5).



  • Increased cost for motor control on the drive side


  • Increased cost for motor control on the controller side

  • Introduction of a non standard interface, as the existing interface had no motor control lines beside on and off


Especially the latter was an even greater turn-off than increased cost for manufacturers. Offering more size is only a minor advertisement feat, increased cost may be handed to that (*6), but non-standard interface means hard migration into uncharted territory - even more so being tied to this non-standard manufacturer (of the drives). Nothing CEOs like.



The 3.5 inch drive itself is a major example here, as it only took off after stripping everything 'new' but the size and making it compatible with the existing 5.25 drives.



The alternative to modify the data rate would have offset some of the drawbacks, but required new controller chips and different analogue setup - also more delicate, as data rate and head gap are related.




Intuitively I would rather the drive spend an extra tenth of a second seeking, than require me to spend an extra ten seconds manually swapping disks because one disk didn't have enough capacity.




Sure thing - except, with a gain of only ~15% in size (*4 again), the saving isn't much and you'll swap soon again. With diskette sizes it's much like with CPU speed. Every thing less than doubling is hard to notice.





*1 - Keep in mind, this was before the standardisation of 3.5" drives.



*2 - Thanks to Felix Palmen for reminding.



*3 - Wilson digged out the corresponding patent.



*4 - Just pull out your geometry books and calculate the difference in diameter of a circle with 1.354 inches and 2.25 inches (for 5.25 inch drives) or 0.9719 inches to 1.5551 inches (for 3.5 inch drives) - or be lazy and just divide them to get a factor telling the relative length increase.



Also keep in mind that only whole blocks will work, so only if it's increased by at least ~1/16th for 5.25 or 1/8th for 3.4 a new block can be added to a track.



*5 - Which as well makes sense for blocked structures with fixed block length.



*6 - And soon offset new cheap(er) integrated solutions.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 8 mins ago









LangLangC

5121211




5121211










answered 5 hours ago









RaffzahnRaffzahn

48.3k6109194




48.3k6109194













  • Very good points! The extra capacity for 3.5" would only be 30%, because the range of track radii used is so surprisingly small, only 0.58 out of 1.75". But why is the range used so small? Could that be because of CAV? Could a CLV drive use a larger range?

    – rwallace
    4 hours ago






  • 2





    @rwallace As you try to go closer to the center, you have a shorter track length so fewer sectors per track, and you need faster motor speeds to keep the same data transfer rate. The faster speeds will put more stress on the whole disk area through friction between the disk and the casing and cause more "wobble" through out of balance disks. CDs can use a larger range since they are rigid and have no mechanical contact with the disk for reading and writing,

    – alephzero
    3 hours ago











  • @alephzero Good point! But per retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/drive.html the Mac went up to 590 rpm compared to the usual 300, so it seems there is some leeway there.

    – rwallace
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    @rwallace Keep in mind that a head and a head mount still needs space inside the slot. Leaving off 1.5 cm seams reasonable.

    – Raffzahn
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    You forgot the physical size of the read/write head, which was huge compared with a hard disk head because it has to physically hold the disk materal flat. See kids.kiddle.co/Floppy_disk (near the bottom) for pictures.

    – alephzero
    3 hours ago



















  • Very good points! The extra capacity for 3.5" would only be 30%, because the range of track radii used is so surprisingly small, only 0.58 out of 1.75". But why is the range used so small? Could that be because of CAV? Could a CLV drive use a larger range?

    – rwallace
    4 hours ago






  • 2





    @rwallace As you try to go closer to the center, you have a shorter track length so fewer sectors per track, and you need faster motor speeds to keep the same data transfer rate. The faster speeds will put more stress on the whole disk area through friction between the disk and the casing and cause more "wobble" through out of balance disks. CDs can use a larger range since they are rigid and have no mechanical contact with the disk for reading and writing,

    – alephzero
    3 hours ago











  • @alephzero Good point! But per retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/drive.html the Mac went up to 590 rpm compared to the usual 300, so it seems there is some leeway there.

    – rwallace
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    @rwallace Keep in mind that a head and a head mount still needs space inside the slot. Leaving off 1.5 cm seams reasonable.

    – Raffzahn
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    You forgot the physical size of the read/write head, which was huge compared with a hard disk head because it has to physically hold the disk materal flat. See kids.kiddle.co/Floppy_disk (near the bottom) for pictures.

    – alephzero
    3 hours ago

















Very good points! The extra capacity for 3.5" would only be 30%, because the range of track radii used is so surprisingly small, only 0.58 out of 1.75". But why is the range used so small? Could that be because of CAV? Could a CLV drive use a larger range?

– rwallace
4 hours ago





Very good points! The extra capacity for 3.5" would only be 30%, because the range of track radii used is so surprisingly small, only 0.58 out of 1.75". But why is the range used so small? Could that be because of CAV? Could a CLV drive use a larger range?

– rwallace
4 hours ago




2




2





@rwallace As you try to go closer to the center, you have a shorter track length so fewer sectors per track, and you need faster motor speeds to keep the same data transfer rate. The faster speeds will put more stress on the whole disk area through friction between the disk and the casing and cause more "wobble" through out of balance disks. CDs can use a larger range since they are rigid and have no mechanical contact with the disk for reading and writing,

– alephzero
3 hours ago





@rwallace As you try to go closer to the center, you have a shorter track length so fewer sectors per track, and you need faster motor speeds to keep the same data transfer rate. The faster speeds will put more stress on the whole disk area through friction between the disk and the casing and cause more "wobble" through out of balance disks. CDs can use a larger range since they are rigid and have no mechanical contact with the disk for reading and writing,

– alephzero
3 hours ago













@alephzero Good point! But per retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/drive.html the Mac went up to 590 rpm compared to the usual 300, so it seems there is some leeway there.

– rwallace
3 hours ago





@alephzero Good point! But per retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/drive.html the Mac went up to 590 rpm compared to the usual 300, so it seems there is some leeway there.

– rwallace
3 hours ago




1




1





@rwallace Keep in mind that a head and a head mount still needs space inside the slot. Leaving off 1.5 cm seams reasonable.

– Raffzahn
3 hours ago





@rwallace Keep in mind that a head and a head mount still needs space inside the slot. Leaving off 1.5 cm seams reasonable.

– Raffzahn
3 hours ago




1




1





You forgot the physical size of the read/write head, which was huge compared with a hard disk head because it has to physically hold the disk materal flat. See kids.kiddle.co/Floppy_disk (near the bottom) for pictures.

– alephzero
3 hours ago





You forgot the physical size of the read/write head, which was huge compared with a hard disk head because it has to physically hold the disk materal flat. See kids.kiddle.co/Floppy_disk (near the bottom) for pictures.

– alephzero
3 hours ago











2














At least one computer does (something close to) what you are describing, and there is a relevant patent.



Wikipedia claims:




But disks made at constant bit density were not compatible with machines with standard drives.




And this is apparently supported by a dead-tree citation. I read the sentence as meaning that the drives need special disks. So my guess is that because these drives never caught on, the disks didn't -- it was a chicken-and-egg problem that caused this implementation of the technique not to gain much market share or traction in the industry.



And perhaps because of the patent, no-one else tried to make a CLV floppy drive as far as I can tell.






share|improve this answer





















  • 1





    Good find, thanks! I would expect the sentence to mean you can use the same blank disks, but disks written on one kind of drive cannot be read on the other kind.

    – rwallace
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    AFAIR Apples Twiggy drive did so before.

    – Raffzahn
    4 hours ago






  • 1





    @Raffzahn before the Sirius 9000? So why did they award the patent?

    – Wilson
    4 hours ago






  • 3





    @Wilson That's something you may want to ask the patent office :)) According to Andy Herzfelds story the Twiggy drives where developed in 1981. The Lisa (with twiggys) went on sale in January 1983. The Patent was filed in October 1982. It's safe to assume that the twiggies weren't developed 3 month from idea to deivery, so I guess it's eitehr invalid by prior atr, or it's claims are more subtile on vertain parts of the logic - something different from the wy Apple (or commodore) did it.

    – Raffzahn
    3 hours ago
















2














At least one computer does (something close to) what you are describing, and there is a relevant patent.



Wikipedia claims:




But disks made at constant bit density were not compatible with machines with standard drives.




And this is apparently supported by a dead-tree citation. I read the sentence as meaning that the drives need special disks. So my guess is that because these drives never caught on, the disks didn't -- it was a chicken-and-egg problem that caused this implementation of the technique not to gain much market share or traction in the industry.



And perhaps because of the patent, no-one else tried to make a CLV floppy drive as far as I can tell.






share|improve this answer





















  • 1





    Good find, thanks! I would expect the sentence to mean you can use the same blank disks, but disks written on one kind of drive cannot be read on the other kind.

    – rwallace
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    AFAIR Apples Twiggy drive did so before.

    – Raffzahn
    4 hours ago






  • 1





    @Raffzahn before the Sirius 9000? So why did they award the patent?

    – Wilson
    4 hours ago






  • 3





    @Wilson That's something you may want to ask the patent office :)) According to Andy Herzfelds story the Twiggy drives where developed in 1981. The Lisa (with twiggys) went on sale in January 1983. The Patent was filed in October 1982. It's safe to assume that the twiggies weren't developed 3 month from idea to deivery, so I guess it's eitehr invalid by prior atr, or it's claims are more subtile on vertain parts of the logic - something different from the wy Apple (or commodore) did it.

    – Raffzahn
    3 hours ago














2












2








2







At least one computer does (something close to) what you are describing, and there is a relevant patent.



Wikipedia claims:




But disks made at constant bit density were not compatible with machines with standard drives.




And this is apparently supported by a dead-tree citation. I read the sentence as meaning that the drives need special disks. So my guess is that because these drives never caught on, the disks didn't -- it was a chicken-and-egg problem that caused this implementation of the technique not to gain much market share or traction in the industry.



And perhaps because of the patent, no-one else tried to make a CLV floppy drive as far as I can tell.






share|improve this answer















At least one computer does (something close to) what you are describing, and there is a relevant patent.



Wikipedia claims:




But disks made at constant bit density were not compatible with machines with standard drives.




And this is apparently supported by a dead-tree citation. I read the sentence as meaning that the drives need special disks. So my guess is that because these drives never caught on, the disks didn't -- it was a chicken-and-egg problem that caused this implementation of the technique not to gain much market share or traction in the industry.



And perhaps because of the patent, no-one else tried to make a CLV floppy drive as far as I can tell.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 5 hours ago

























answered 5 hours ago









WilsonWilson

11.1k550129




11.1k550129








  • 1





    Good find, thanks! I would expect the sentence to mean you can use the same blank disks, but disks written on one kind of drive cannot be read on the other kind.

    – rwallace
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    AFAIR Apples Twiggy drive did so before.

    – Raffzahn
    4 hours ago






  • 1





    @Raffzahn before the Sirius 9000? So why did they award the patent?

    – Wilson
    4 hours ago






  • 3





    @Wilson That's something you may want to ask the patent office :)) According to Andy Herzfelds story the Twiggy drives where developed in 1981. The Lisa (with twiggys) went on sale in January 1983. The Patent was filed in October 1982. It's safe to assume that the twiggies weren't developed 3 month from idea to deivery, so I guess it's eitehr invalid by prior atr, or it's claims are more subtile on vertain parts of the logic - something different from the wy Apple (or commodore) did it.

    – Raffzahn
    3 hours ago














  • 1





    Good find, thanks! I would expect the sentence to mean you can use the same blank disks, but disks written on one kind of drive cannot be read on the other kind.

    – rwallace
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    AFAIR Apples Twiggy drive did so before.

    – Raffzahn
    4 hours ago






  • 1





    @Raffzahn before the Sirius 9000? So why did they award the patent?

    – Wilson
    4 hours ago






  • 3





    @Wilson That's something you may want to ask the patent office :)) According to Andy Herzfelds story the Twiggy drives where developed in 1981. The Lisa (with twiggys) went on sale in January 1983. The Patent was filed in October 1982. It's safe to assume that the twiggies weren't developed 3 month from idea to deivery, so I guess it's eitehr invalid by prior atr, or it's claims are more subtile on vertain parts of the logic - something different from the wy Apple (or commodore) did it.

    – Raffzahn
    3 hours ago








1




1





Good find, thanks! I would expect the sentence to mean you can use the same blank disks, but disks written on one kind of drive cannot be read on the other kind.

– rwallace
5 hours ago





Good find, thanks! I would expect the sentence to mean you can use the same blank disks, but disks written on one kind of drive cannot be read on the other kind.

– rwallace
5 hours ago




1




1





AFAIR Apples Twiggy drive did so before.

– Raffzahn
4 hours ago





AFAIR Apples Twiggy drive did so before.

– Raffzahn
4 hours ago




1




1





@Raffzahn before the Sirius 9000? So why did they award the patent?

– Wilson
4 hours ago





@Raffzahn before the Sirius 9000? So why did they award the patent?

– Wilson
4 hours ago




3




3





@Wilson That's something you may want to ask the patent office :)) According to Andy Herzfelds story the Twiggy drives where developed in 1981. The Lisa (with twiggys) went on sale in January 1983. The Patent was filed in October 1982. It's safe to assume that the twiggies weren't developed 3 month from idea to deivery, so I guess it's eitehr invalid by prior atr, or it's claims are more subtile on vertain parts of the logic - something different from the wy Apple (or commodore) did it.

– Raffzahn
3 hours ago





@Wilson That's something you may want to ask the patent office :)) According to Andy Herzfelds story the Twiggy drives where developed in 1981. The Lisa (with twiggys) went on sale in January 1983. The Patent was filed in October 1982. It's safe to assume that the twiggies weren't developed 3 month from idea to deivery, so I guess it's eitehr invalid by prior atr, or it's claims are more subtile on vertain parts of the logic - something different from the wy Apple (or commodore) did it.

– Raffzahn
3 hours ago











2














During the hay-day of floppy drives the technology needed to do CLV was rather expensive. Writing/reading data at a fixed rate and running a motor at a fixes speed is the cheapest option. Variable speed oscillators were uncommon and not generally available as single integrated circuits.



At the time cost tended to be the most important factor, as computers were still very expensive and many people were still using tapes for storage, a floppy drive was relatively fast and spacious.



The gains were also somewhat marginal. Consider that Apple's expensive "Twiggy" drives. They proved unreliable and could only store 871k of data on a 5.25" disk. Sony had already released its 3.5" format two years earlier, and with double density disks computers were able to store 880k on them. They quickly became popular and cheap.



I'm not convinced about Wikipedia's claim that speed changes would have had a big influence on seek times. Floppy disks have a lot more friction and run at much lower speeds than optical media where these speed changes do reduce seek performance.






share|improve this answer





















  • 1





    Spinning up and down to speed and waiting for the drive to settle did take longer than running the drive motor at a fixed speed. Maybe it's the age of my drive but on my Apple IIgs there's a marked delay between the drive speed changing and the track stepper moving.

    – scruss
    2 hours ago











  • Sure, but not as much as with a DVD or similar optical disc. The speed change is slow enough that you can hear it ramping up. Floppy disks rotate at a much lower speed and go from zero to operating speed in a few hundred milliseconds at most.

    – user
    1 hour ago
















2














During the hay-day of floppy drives the technology needed to do CLV was rather expensive. Writing/reading data at a fixed rate and running a motor at a fixes speed is the cheapest option. Variable speed oscillators were uncommon and not generally available as single integrated circuits.



At the time cost tended to be the most important factor, as computers were still very expensive and many people were still using tapes for storage, a floppy drive was relatively fast and spacious.



The gains were also somewhat marginal. Consider that Apple's expensive "Twiggy" drives. They proved unreliable and could only store 871k of data on a 5.25" disk. Sony had already released its 3.5" format two years earlier, and with double density disks computers were able to store 880k on them. They quickly became popular and cheap.



I'm not convinced about Wikipedia's claim that speed changes would have had a big influence on seek times. Floppy disks have a lot more friction and run at much lower speeds than optical media where these speed changes do reduce seek performance.






share|improve this answer





















  • 1





    Spinning up and down to speed and waiting for the drive to settle did take longer than running the drive motor at a fixed speed. Maybe it's the age of my drive but on my Apple IIgs there's a marked delay between the drive speed changing and the track stepper moving.

    – scruss
    2 hours ago











  • Sure, but not as much as with a DVD or similar optical disc. The speed change is slow enough that you can hear it ramping up. Floppy disks rotate at a much lower speed and go from zero to operating speed in a few hundred milliseconds at most.

    – user
    1 hour ago














2












2








2







During the hay-day of floppy drives the technology needed to do CLV was rather expensive. Writing/reading data at a fixed rate and running a motor at a fixes speed is the cheapest option. Variable speed oscillators were uncommon and not generally available as single integrated circuits.



At the time cost tended to be the most important factor, as computers were still very expensive and many people were still using tapes for storage, a floppy drive was relatively fast and spacious.



The gains were also somewhat marginal. Consider that Apple's expensive "Twiggy" drives. They proved unreliable and could only store 871k of data on a 5.25" disk. Sony had already released its 3.5" format two years earlier, and with double density disks computers were able to store 880k on them. They quickly became popular and cheap.



I'm not convinced about Wikipedia's claim that speed changes would have had a big influence on seek times. Floppy disks have a lot more friction and run at much lower speeds than optical media where these speed changes do reduce seek performance.






share|improve this answer















During the hay-day of floppy drives the technology needed to do CLV was rather expensive. Writing/reading data at a fixed rate and running a motor at a fixes speed is the cheapest option. Variable speed oscillators were uncommon and not generally available as single integrated circuits.



At the time cost tended to be the most important factor, as computers were still very expensive and many people were still using tapes for storage, a floppy drive was relatively fast and spacious.



The gains were also somewhat marginal. Consider that Apple's expensive "Twiggy" drives. They proved unreliable and could only store 871k of data on a 5.25" disk. Sony had already released its 3.5" format two years earlier, and with double density disks computers were able to store 880k on them. They quickly became popular and cheap.



I'm not convinced about Wikipedia's claim that speed changes would have had a big influence on seek times. Floppy disks have a lot more friction and run at much lower speeds than optical media where these speed changes do reduce seek performance.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 2 hours ago

























answered 2 hours ago









useruser

3,125615




3,125615








  • 1





    Spinning up and down to speed and waiting for the drive to settle did take longer than running the drive motor at a fixed speed. Maybe it's the age of my drive but on my Apple IIgs there's a marked delay between the drive speed changing and the track stepper moving.

    – scruss
    2 hours ago











  • Sure, but not as much as with a DVD or similar optical disc. The speed change is slow enough that you can hear it ramping up. Floppy disks rotate at a much lower speed and go from zero to operating speed in a few hundred milliseconds at most.

    – user
    1 hour ago














  • 1





    Spinning up and down to speed and waiting for the drive to settle did take longer than running the drive motor at a fixed speed. Maybe it's the age of my drive but on my Apple IIgs there's a marked delay between the drive speed changing and the track stepper moving.

    – scruss
    2 hours ago











  • Sure, but not as much as with a DVD or similar optical disc. The speed change is slow enough that you can hear it ramping up. Floppy disks rotate at a much lower speed and go from zero to operating speed in a few hundred milliseconds at most.

    – user
    1 hour ago








1




1





Spinning up and down to speed and waiting for the drive to settle did take longer than running the drive motor at a fixed speed. Maybe it's the age of my drive but on my Apple IIgs there's a marked delay between the drive speed changing and the track stepper moving.

– scruss
2 hours ago





Spinning up and down to speed and waiting for the drive to settle did take longer than running the drive motor at a fixed speed. Maybe it's the age of my drive but on my Apple IIgs there's a marked delay between the drive speed changing and the track stepper moving.

– scruss
2 hours ago













Sure, but not as much as with a DVD or similar optical disc. The speed change is slow enough that you can hear it ramping up. Floppy disks rotate at a much lower speed and go from zero to operating speed in a few hundred milliseconds at most.

– user
1 hour ago





Sure, but not as much as with a DVD or similar optical disc. The speed change is slow enough that you can hear it ramping up. Floppy disks rotate at a much lower speed and go from zero to operating speed in a few hundred milliseconds at most.

– user
1 hour ago


















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