Why would Worf be First Officer of the Enterprise?
I'm specifically referring to the episode(s) Gambit. In the absence of Riker and Picard, Data takes command of the Enterprise and Worf is second in command.
This seems wrong however, because he is not the next highest ranking officer on the ship. While he was outranked by both Dr. Crusher and Counselor Troi, neither of them would be considered for a command position unless it was absolutely necessary because they were needed elsewhere and had limited bridge experience.
More notably, Geordi would seem to be a more logical choice. He had outranked Worf for around 5 years as he was apparently promoted to full Lieutenant at the beginning of season 2 and Lt. Commander at the beginning of season 3. Worf remained a Lieutenant Junior Grade until Season 3 and made Lt. Commander at the beginning of Generations.
Also, LaForge had commanded the Enterprise on at least one occasion prior to this incident.
Why not have Geordi as first officer? I'm looking for an in universe reason.
star-trek star-trek-tng worf starfleet-rank
edited 14 hours ago
TheLethalCarrot
47.8k17254303
asked Jan 5 '18 at 23:07
geewhizgeewhiz
3,54711235
|
show 2 more comments
I'm specifically referring to the episode(s) Gambit. In the absence of Riker and Picard, Data takes command of the Enterprise and Worf is second in command.
This seems wrong however, because he is not the next highest ranking officer on the ship. While he was outranked by both Dr. Crusher and Counselor Troi, neither of them would be considered for a command position unless it was absolutely necessary because they were needed elsewhere and had limited bridge experience.
More notably, Geordi would seem to be a more logical choice. He had outranked Worf for around 5 years as he was apparently promoted to full Lieutenant at the beginning of season 2 and Lt. Commander at the beginning of season 3. Worf remained a Lieutenant Junior Grade until Season 3 and made Lt. Commander at the beginning of Generations.
Also, LaForge had commanded the Enterprise on at least one occasion prior to this incident.
Why not have Geordi as first officer? I'm looking for an in universe reason.
star-trek star-trek-tng worf starfleet-rank
edited 14 hours ago
TheLethalCarrot
47.8k17254303
asked Jan 5 '18 at 23:07
geewhizgeewhiz
3,54711235
4
Command is not a function of ranks as I recall. 2nd in command is a position...not a rank. I seem to recall a similar question in the past.
– Paulie_D
Jan 5 '18 at 23:12
1
Yes. Troi has a higher rank (full Commander) but Lt. Commander Data remains Second Officer. Theoretically he can't order her to do things but his requests carry the authority of the captain (who can order her).
– Valorum
Jan 6 '18 at 0:12
2
Rank is largely a determinant for the jobs you can do. But your actual job is not determined solely by rank. And who you answer to is determined by your job and theirs.
– Stephen Collings
Jan 6 '18 at 2:20
1
Geordi is Chief Engineer - probably needed to keep the warp coils humming along
– HorusKol
Jan 6 '18 at 3:23
1
@RonJohn, they allowed a child to fly the thing, why not put a LCDR in charge?
– geewhiz
Jan 6 '18 at 20:04
|
show 2 more comments
I'm specifically referring to the episode(s) Gambit. In the absence of Riker and Picard, Data takes command of the Enterprise and Worf is second in command.
This seems wrong however, because he is not the next highest ranking officer on the ship. While he was outranked by both Dr. Crusher and Counselor Troi, neither of them would be considered for a command position unless it was absolutely necessary because they were needed elsewhere and had limited bridge experience.
More notably, Geordi would seem to be a more logical choice. He had outranked Worf for around 5 years as he was apparently promoted to full Lieutenant at the beginning of season 2 and Lt. Commander at the beginning of season 3. Worf remained a Lieutenant Junior Grade until Season 3 and made Lt. Commander at the beginning of Generations.
Also, LaForge had commanded the Enterprise on at least one occasion prior to this incident.
Why not have Geordi as first officer? I'm looking for an in universe reason.
star-trek star-trek-tng worf starfleet-rank
edited 14 hours ago
TheLethalCarrot
47.8k17254303
asked Jan 5 '18 at 23:07
geewhizgeewhiz
3,54711235
I'm specifically referring to the episode(s) Gambit. In the absence of Riker and Picard, Data takes command of the Enterprise and Worf is second in command.
This seems wrong however, because he is not the next highest ranking officer on the ship. While he was outranked by both Dr. Crusher and Counselor Troi, neither of them would be considered for a command position unless it was absolutely necessary because they were needed elsewhere and had limited bridge experience.
More notably, Geordi would seem to be a more logical choice. He had outranked Worf for around 5 years as he was apparently promoted to full Lieutenant at the beginning of season 2 and Lt. Commander at the beginning of season 3. Worf remained a Lieutenant Junior Grade until Season 3 and made Lt. Commander at the beginning of Generations.
Also, LaForge had commanded the Enterprise on at least one occasion prior to this incident.
Why not have Geordi as first officer? I'm looking for an in universe reason.
star-trek star-trek-tng worf starfleet-rank
star-trek star-trek-tng worf starfleet-rank
edited 14 hours ago
TheLethalCarrot
47.8k17254303
asked Jan 5 '18 at 23:07
geewhizgeewhiz
3,54711235
edited 14 hours ago
TheLethalCarrot
47.8k17254303
asked Jan 5 '18 at 23:07
geewhizgeewhiz
3,54711235
edited 14 hours ago
TheLethalCarrot
47.8k17254303
edited 14 hours ago
TheLethalCarrot
47.8k17254303
edited 14 hours ago
TheLethalCarrot
47.8k17254303
47.8k17254303
asked Jan 5 '18 at 23:07
geewhizgeewhiz
3,54711235
asked Jan 5 '18 at 23:07
geewhizgeewhiz
3,54711235
asked Jan 5 '18 at 23:07
geewhizgeewhiz
3,54711235
3,54711235
4
Command is not a function of ranks as I recall. 2nd in command is a position...not a rank. I seem to recall a similar question in the past.
– Paulie_D
Jan 5 '18 at 23:12
1
Yes. Troi has a higher rank (full Commander) but Lt. Commander Data remains Second Officer. Theoretically he can't order her to do things but his requests carry the authority of the captain (who can order her).
– Valorum
Jan 6 '18 at 0:12
2
Rank is largely a determinant for the jobs you can do. But your actual job is not determined solely by rank. And who you answer to is determined by your job and theirs.
– Stephen Collings
Jan 6 '18 at 2:20
1
Geordi is Chief Engineer - probably needed to keep the warp coils humming along
– HorusKol
Jan 6 '18 at 3:23
1
@RonJohn, they allowed a child to fly the thing, why not put a LCDR in charge?
– geewhiz
Jan 6 '18 at 20:04
|
show 2 more comments
4
Command is not a function of ranks as I recall. 2nd in command is a position...not a rank. I seem to recall a similar question in the past.
– Paulie_D
Jan 5 '18 at 23:12
1
Yes. Troi has a higher rank (full Commander) but Lt. Commander Data remains Second Officer. Theoretically he can't order her to do things but his requests carry the authority of the captain (who can order her).
– Valorum
Jan 6 '18 at 0:12
2
Rank is largely a determinant for the jobs you can do. But your actual job is not determined solely by rank. And who you answer to is determined by your job and theirs.
– Stephen Collings
Jan 6 '18 at 2:20
1
Geordi is Chief Engineer - probably needed to keep the warp coils humming along
– HorusKol
Jan 6 '18 at 3:23
1
@RonJohn, they allowed a child to fly the thing, why not put a LCDR in charge?
– geewhiz
Jan 6 '18 at 20:04
4
4
Command is not a function of ranks as I recall. 2nd in command is a position...not a rank. I seem to recall a similar question in the past.
– Paulie_D
Jan 5 '18 at 23:12
Command is not a function of ranks as I recall. 2nd in command is a position...not a rank. I seem to recall a similar question in the past.
– Paulie_D
Jan 5 '18 at 23:12
1
1
Yes. Troi has a higher rank (full Commander) but Lt. Commander Data remains Second Officer. Theoretically he can't order her to do things but his requests carry the authority of the captain (who can order her).
– Valorum
Jan 6 '18 at 0:12
Yes. Troi has a higher rank (full Commander) but Lt. Commander Data remains Second Officer. Theoretically he can't order her to do things but his requests carry the authority of the captain (who can order her).
– Valorum
Jan 6 '18 at 0:12
2
2
Rank is largely a determinant for the jobs you can do. But your actual job is not determined solely by rank. And who you answer to is determined by your job and theirs.
– Stephen Collings
Jan 6 '18 at 2:20
Rank is largely a determinant for the jobs you can do. But your actual job is not determined solely by rank. And who you answer to is determined by your job and theirs.
– Stephen Collings
Jan 6 '18 at 2:20
1
1
Geordi is Chief Engineer - probably needed to keep the warp coils humming along
– HorusKol
Jan 6 '18 at 3:23
Geordi is Chief Engineer - probably needed to keep the warp coils humming along
– HorusKol
Jan 6 '18 at 3:23
1
1
@RonJohn, they allowed a child to fly the thing, why not put a LCDR in charge?
– geewhiz
Jan 6 '18 at 20:04
@RonJohn, they allowed a child to fly the thing, why not put a LCDR in charge?
– geewhiz
Jan 6 '18 at 20:04
|
show 2 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
There's a few things going on here;
The position of First Officer is at the gift of the captain and doesn't necessarily go to either the next highest ranking person on the ship, nor the person who current holds the next chain-of-command rank down (hence why Data was passed over in TNG: Best of Both Worlds, Part II). This means that Data can choose whoever he wants.
In the absence of both Picard and Riker he selects the ship's current Third Officer, his direct subordinate Worf, to be his First Officer over LaForge. Geordi theoretically holds a higher rank but he's evidently more useful remaining as Chief Engineer.
In TNG: Gambit, Part II Data makes it abundantly clear that he has the power to give the role and take it away as he sees fit.
DATA: If you feel that you are not capable of carrying out this role,
I can assign it to Commander La Forge and return you to Tactical. I
would not enter it as a reprimand on your record... simply as a
transfer.
WORF: I would... prefer to remain at my current post.
answered Jan 6 '18 at 0:06
ValorumValorum
411k11129883211
Suppose that Commander Riker were to die and Captain Picard made Reginald Barclay the new first officer. Could Data, Geordi, Dr. Crusher, etc., refuse to obey his orders (this assumes that Picard doesn't directly order them to obey him)? Maybe it's similar to asking whether Geordi (as chief engineer) can order Data around. Clearly he does, though it's unclear (probably doubtful) that Geordi could order Picard or Riker in the engineering room. Perhaps Data is obeying not because he's technically obligated to, but because Geordi is "in charge."
– Ham Sandwich
Jan 6 '18 at 1:51
3
After all, what if Picard assigned Riker to an engineering team? It's unlikely, but possible. Riker taking orders from Geordi would seem weird, but Geordi is in charge (and heck, he even commanded Q without fear of being turned into a radish if the latter were to regain his powers).
– Ham Sandwich
Jan 6 '18 at 1:56
4
@HamSandwich - It's one of those weird situations. A superior officer can't give an order to a more senior officer. It has to be phrased as a request. But it's a request that can't be refused because the implication is that you can just get on the blower and ask the captain to re-ask it.
– Valorum
Jan 6 '18 at 2:11
7
@HamSandwich To give you some perspective from the real (US) Navy, it is absolutely the captain's prerogative to assign whoever he wants to whatever positions on his ship. However, if he were to demote a senior CDR who had been previously nominated for command, or assign someone as low ranking as Barclay to be his First Officer, Picard would certainly be hearing from his boss about that. As regards officers ordering each other around, the CO (Commanding Officer) has the authority to organize things as he wants when his ship is underway. Whether he remains in command long is another story.
– kingledion
Jan 6 '18 at 5:20
12
"An ordnance technician at a dead run outranks everybody."
– Dan Neely
Jan 6 '18 at 16:02
|
show 1 more comment
Could it be as simple as the fact that Medical/Support (I'm putting Troi here) personnel are not line officers in the Star Trek universe? Engineers are line officers, but as Chief Engineer, you want Geordie doing HIS job and not running around the bridge.
Consider the US Navy, you have Chaplains, Doctors, Lawyers (JAG), Paymasters, all of whom hold a commission as an officer, but are not line officers and are therefor ineligible for command at sea.
edited 14 hours ago
TheLethalCarrot
47.8k17254303
answered 17 hours ago
GB - AE7OOGB - AE7OO
12
New contributor
GB - AE7OO is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
1
Except that we know that that isn't true. On multiple occasions we see Troi and Doctor Crusher in command
– Valorum
17 hours ago
@Valorum Whilst the part about the line officers may not be true this answer does also say those officers were probably more useful doing their normal jobs which seems like an important point. One which is said in your answer too.
– TheLethalCarrot
17 hours ago
The question is then, when are they chosen? Is Data on the bridge? Is Worf or Gordie? It could be that they can command, but are not preferred? It could be a matter of scraping the bottom of barrel for an officer, or it could be that they have to give the command to a "Named" cast member and not some random Lt from down the hall.
– GB - AE7OO
17 hours ago
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "186"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fscifi.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f178281%2fwhy-would-worf-be-first-officer-of-the-enterprise%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
There's a few things going on here;
The position of First Officer is at the gift of the captain and doesn't necessarily go to either the next highest ranking person on the ship, nor the person who current holds the next chain-of-command rank down (hence why Data was passed over in TNG: Best of Both Worlds, Part II). This means that Data can choose whoever he wants.
In the absence of both Picard and Riker he selects the ship's current Third Officer, his direct subordinate Worf, to be his First Officer over LaForge. Geordi theoretically holds a higher rank but he's evidently more useful remaining as Chief Engineer.
In TNG: Gambit, Part II Data makes it abundantly clear that he has the power to give the role and take it away as he sees fit.
DATA: If you feel that you are not capable of carrying out this role,
I can assign it to Commander La Forge and return you to Tactical. I
would not enter it as a reprimand on your record... simply as a
transfer.
WORF: I would... prefer to remain at my current post.
answered Jan 6 '18 at 0:06
ValorumValorum
411k11129883211
Suppose that Commander Riker were to die and Captain Picard made Reginald Barclay the new first officer. Could Data, Geordi, Dr. Crusher, etc., refuse to obey his orders (this assumes that Picard doesn't directly order them to obey him)? Maybe it's similar to asking whether Geordi (as chief engineer) can order Data around. Clearly he does, though it's unclear (probably doubtful) that Geordi could order Picard or Riker in the engineering room. Perhaps Data is obeying not because he's technically obligated to, but because Geordi is "in charge."
– Ham Sandwich
Jan 6 '18 at 1:51
3
After all, what if Picard assigned Riker to an engineering team? It's unlikely, but possible. Riker taking orders from Geordi would seem weird, but Geordi is in charge (and heck, he even commanded Q without fear of being turned into a radish if the latter were to regain his powers).
– Ham Sandwich
Jan 6 '18 at 1:56
4
@HamSandwich - It's one of those weird situations. A superior officer can't give an order to a more senior officer. It has to be phrased as a request. But it's a request that can't be refused because the implication is that you can just get on the blower and ask the captain to re-ask it.
– Valorum
Jan 6 '18 at 2:11
7
@HamSandwich To give you some perspective from the real (US) Navy, it is absolutely the captain's prerogative to assign whoever he wants to whatever positions on his ship. However, if he were to demote a senior CDR who had been previously nominated for command, or assign someone as low ranking as Barclay to be his First Officer, Picard would certainly be hearing from his boss about that. As regards officers ordering each other around, the CO (Commanding Officer) has the authority to organize things as he wants when his ship is underway. Whether he remains in command long is another story.
– kingledion
Jan 6 '18 at 5:20
12
"An ordnance technician at a dead run outranks everybody."
– Dan Neely
Jan 6 '18 at 16:02
|
show 1 more comment
There's a few things going on here;
The position of First Officer is at the gift of the captain and doesn't necessarily go to either the next highest ranking person on the ship, nor the person who current holds the next chain-of-command rank down (hence why Data was passed over in TNG: Best of Both Worlds, Part II). This means that Data can choose whoever he wants.
In the absence of both Picard and Riker he selects the ship's current Third Officer, his direct subordinate Worf, to be his First Officer over LaForge. Geordi theoretically holds a higher rank but he's evidently more useful remaining as Chief Engineer.
In TNG: Gambit, Part II Data makes it abundantly clear that he has the power to give the role and take it away as he sees fit.
DATA: If you feel that you are not capable of carrying out this role,
I can assign it to Commander La Forge and return you to Tactical. I
would not enter it as a reprimand on your record... simply as a
transfer.
WORF: I would... prefer to remain at my current post.
answered Jan 6 '18 at 0:06
ValorumValorum
411k11129883211
Suppose that Commander Riker were to die and Captain Picard made Reginald Barclay the new first officer. Could Data, Geordi, Dr. Crusher, etc., refuse to obey his orders (this assumes that Picard doesn't directly order them to obey him)? Maybe it's similar to asking whether Geordi (as chief engineer) can order Data around. Clearly he does, though it's unclear (probably doubtful) that Geordi could order Picard or Riker in the engineering room. Perhaps Data is obeying not because he's technically obligated to, but because Geordi is "in charge."
– Ham Sandwich
Jan 6 '18 at 1:51
3
After all, what if Picard assigned Riker to an engineering team? It's unlikely, but possible. Riker taking orders from Geordi would seem weird, but Geordi is in charge (and heck, he even commanded Q without fear of being turned into a radish if the latter were to regain his powers).
– Ham Sandwich
Jan 6 '18 at 1:56
4
@HamSandwich - It's one of those weird situations. A superior officer can't give an order to a more senior officer. It has to be phrased as a request. But it's a request that can't be refused because the implication is that you can just get on the blower and ask the captain to re-ask it.
– Valorum
Jan 6 '18 at 2:11
7
@HamSandwich To give you some perspective from the real (US) Navy, it is absolutely the captain's prerogative to assign whoever he wants to whatever positions on his ship. However, if he were to demote a senior CDR who had been previously nominated for command, or assign someone as low ranking as Barclay to be his First Officer, Picard would certainly be hearing from his boss about that. As regards officers ordering each other around, the CO (Commanding Officer) has the authority to organize things as he wants when his ship is underway. Whether he remains in command long is another story.
– kingledion
Jan 6 '18 at 5:20
12
"An ordnance technician at a dead run outranks everybody."
– Dan Neely
Jan 6 '18 at 16:02
|
show 1 more comment
There's a few things going on here;
The position of First Officer is at the gift of the captain and doesn't necessarily go to either the next highest ranking person on the ship, nor the person who current holds the next chain-of-command rank down (hence why Data was passed over in TNG: Best of Both Worlds, Part II). This means that Data can choose whoever he wants.
In the absence of both Picard and Riker he selects the ship's current Third Officer, his direct subordinate Worf, to be his First Officer over LaForge. Geordi theoretically holds a higher rank but he's evidently more useful remaining as Chief Engineer.
In TNG: Gambit, Part II Data makes it abundantly clear that he has the power to give the role and take it away as he sees fit.
DATA: If you feel that you are not capable of carrying out this role,
I can assign it to Commander La Forge and return you to Tactical. I
would not enter it as a reprimand on your record... simply as a
transfer.
WORF: I would... prefer to remain at my current post.
answered Jan 6 '18 at 0:06
ValorumValorum
411k11129883211
There's a few things going on here;
The position of First Officer is at the gift of the captain and doesn't necessarily go to either the next highest ranking person on the ship, nor the person who current holds the next chain-of-command rank down (hence why Data was passed over in TNG: Best of Both Worlds, Part II). This means that Data can choose whoever he wants.
In the absence of both Picard and Riker he selects the ship's current Third Officer, his direct subordinate Worf, to be his First Officer over LaForge. Geordi theoretically holds a higher rank but he's evidently more useful remaining as Chief Engineer.
In TNG: Gambit, Part II Data makes it abundantly clear that he has the power to give the role and take it away as he sees fit.
DATA: If you feel that you are not capable of carrying out this role,
I can assign it to Commander La Forge and return you to Tactical. I
would not enter it as a reprimand on your record... simply as a
transfer.
WORF: I would... prefer to remain at my current post.
answered Jan 6 '18 at 0:06
ValorumValorum
411k11129883211
edited Jan 6 '18 at 16:33
answered Jan 6 '18 at 0:06
ValorumValorum
411k11129883211
answered Jan 6 '18 at 0:06
ValorumValorum
411k11129883211
answered Jan 6 '18 at 0:06
ValorumValorum
411k11129883211
411k11129883211
Suppose that Commander Riker were to die and Captain Picard made Reginald Barclay the new first officer. Could Data, Geordi, Dr. Crusher, etc., refuse to obey his orders (this assumes that Picard doesn't directly order them to obey him)? Maybe it's similar to asking whether Geordi (as chief engineer) can order Data around. Clearly he does, though it's unclear (probably doubtful) that Geordi could order Picard or Riker in the engineering room. Perhaps Data is obeying not because he's technically obligated to, but because Geordi is "in charge."
– Ham Sandwich
Jan 6 '18 at 1:51
3
After all, what if Picard assigned Riker to an engineering team? It's unlikely, but possible. Riker taking orders from Geordi would seem weird, but Geordi is in charge (and heck, he even commanded Q without fear of being turned into a radish if the latter were to regain his powers).
– Ham Sandwich
Jan 6 '18 at 1:56
4
@HamSandwich - It's one of those weird situations. A superior officer can't give an order to a more senior officer. It has to be phrased as a request. But it's a request that can't be refused because the implication is that you can just get on the blower and ask the captain to re-ask it.
– Valorum
Jan 6 '18 at 2:11
7
@HamSandwich To give you some perspective from the real (US) Navy, it is absolutely the captain's prerogative to assign whoever he wants to whatever positions on his ship. However, if he were to demote a senior CDR who had been previously nominated for command, or assign someone as low ranking as Barclay to be his First Officer, Picard would certainly be hearing from his boss about that. As regards officers ordering each other around, the CO (Commanding Officer) has the authority to organize things as he wants when his ship is underway. Whether he remains in command long is another story.
– kingledion
Jan 6 '18 at 5:20
12
"An ordnance technician at a dead run outranks everybody."
– Dan Neely
Jan 6 '18 at 16:02
|
show 1 more comment
Suppose that Commander Riker were to die and Captain Picard made Reginald Barclay the new first officer. Could Data, Geordi, Dr. Crusher, etc., refuse to obey his orders (this assumes that Picard doesn't directly order them to obey him)? Maybe it's similar to asking whether Geordi (as chief engineer) can order Data around. Clearly he does, though it's unclear (probably doubtful) that Geordi could order Picard or Riker in the engineering room. Perhaps Data is obeying not because he's technically obligated to, but because Geordi is "in charge."
– Ham Sandwich
Jan 6 '18 at 1:51
3
After all, what if Picard assigned Riker to an engineering team? It's unlikely, but possible. Riker taking orders from Geordi would seem weird, but Geordi is in charge (and heck, he even commanded Q without fear of being turned into a radish if the latter were to regain his powers).
– Ham Sandwich
Jan 6 '18 at 1:56
4
@HamSandwich - It's one of those weird situations. A superior officer can't give an order to a more senior officer. It has to be phrased as a request. But it's a request that can't be refused because the implication is that you can just get on the blower and ask the captain to re-ask it.
– Valorum
Jan 6 '18 at 2:11
7
@HamSandwich To give you some perspective from the real (US) Navy, it is absolutely the captain's prerogative to assign whoever he wants to whatever positions on his ship. However, if he were to demote a senior CDR who had been previously nominated for command, or assign someone as low ranking as Barclay to be his First Officer, Picard would certainly be hearing from his boss about that. As regards officers ordering each other around, the CO (Commanding Officer) has the authority to organize things as he wants when his ship is underway. Whether he remains in command long is another story.
– kingledion
Jan 6 '18 at 5:20
12
"An ordnance technician at a dead run outranks everybody."
– Dan Neely
Jan 6 '18 at 16:02
Suppose that Commander Riker were to die and Captain Picard made Reginald Barclay the new first officer. Could Data, Geordi, Dr. Crusher, etc., refuse to obey his orders (this assumes that Picard doesn't directly order them to obey him)? Maybe it's similar to asking whether Geordi (as chief engineer) can order Data around. Clearly he does, though it's unclear (probably doubtful) that Geordi could order Picard or Riker in the engineering room. Perhaps Data is obeying not because he's technically obligated to, but because Geordi is "in charge."
– Ham Sandwich
Jan 6 '18 at 1:51
Suppose that Commander Riker were to die and Captain Picard made Reginald Barclay the new first officer. Could Data, Geordi, Dr. Crusher, etc., refuse to obey his orders (this assumes that Picard doesn't directly order them to obey him)? Maybe it's similar to asking whether Geordi (as chief engineer) can order Data around. Clearly he does, though it's unclear (probably doubtful) that Geordi could order Picard or Riker in the engineering room. Perhaps Data is obeying not because he's technically obligated to, but because Geordi is "in charge."
– Ham Sandwich
Jan 6 '18 at 1:51
3
3
After all, what if Picard assigned Riker to an engineering team? It's unlikely, but possible. Riker taking orders from Geordi would seem weird, but Geordi is in charge (and heck, he even commanded Q without fear of being turned into a radish if the latter were to regain his powers).
– Ham Sandwich
Jan 6 '18 at 1:56
After all, what if Picard assigned Riker to an engineering team? It's unlikely, but possible. Riker taking orders from Geordi would seem weird, but Geordi is in charge (and heck, he even commanded Q without fear of being turned into a radish if the latter were to regain his powers).
– Ham Sandwich
Jan 6 '18 at 1:56
4
4
@HamSandwich - It's one of those weird situations. A superior officer can't give an order to a more senior officer. It has to be phrased as a request. But it's a request that can't be refused because the implication is that you can just get on the blower and ask the captain to re-ask it.
– Valorum
Jan 6 '18 at 2:11
@HamSandwich - It's one of those weird situations. A superior officer can't give an order to a more senior officer. It has to be phrased as a request. But it's a request that can't be refused because the implication is that you can just get on the blower and ask the captain to re-ask it.
– Valorum
Jan 6 '18 at 2:11
7
7
@HamSandwich To give you some perspective from the real (US) Navy, it is absolutely the captain's prerogative to assign whoever he wants to whatever positions on his ship. However, if he were to demote a senior CDR who had been previously nominated for command, or assign someone as low ranking as Barclay to be his First Officer, Picard would certainly be hearing from his boss about that. As regards officers ordering each other around, the CO (Commanding Officer) has the authority to organize things as he wants when his ship is underway. Whether he remains in command long is another story.
– kingledion
Jan 6 '18 at 5:20
@HamSandwich To give you some perspective from the real (US) Navy, it is absolutely the captain's prerogative to assign whoever he wants to whatever positions on his ship. However, if he were to demote a senior CDR who had been previously nominated for command, or assign someone as low ranking as Barclay to be his First Officer, Picard would certainly be hearing from his boss about that. As regards officers ordering each other around, the CO (Commanding Officer) has the authority to organize things as he wants when his ship is underway. Whether he remains in command long is another story.
– kingledion
Jan 6 '18 at 5:20
12
12
"An ordnance technician at a dead run outranks everybody."
– Dan Neely
Jan 6 '18 at 16:02
"An ordnance technician at a dead run outranks everybody."
– Dan Neely
Jan 6 '18 at 16:02
|
show 1 more comment
Could it be as simple as the fact that Medical/Support (I'm putting Troi here) personnel are not line officers in the Star Trek universe? Engineers are line officers, but as Chief Engineer, you want Geordie doing HIS job and not running around the bridge.
Consider the US Navy, you have Chaplains, Doctors, Lawyers (JAG), Paymasters, all of whom hold a commission as an officer, but are not line officers and are therefor ineligible for command at sea.
edited 14 hours ago
TheLethalCarrot
47.8k17254303
answered 17 hours ago
GB - AE7OOGB - AE7OO
12
New contributor
GB - AE7OO is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
1
Except that we know that that isn't true. On multiple occasions we see Troi and Doctor Crusher in command
– Valorum
17 hours ago
@Valorum Whilst the part about the line officers may not be true this answer does also say those officers were probably more useful doing their normal jobs which seems like an important point. One which is said in your answer too.
– TheLethalCarrot
17 hours ago
The question is then, when are they chosen? Is Data on the bridge? Is Worf or Gordie? It could be that they can command, but are not preferred? It could be a matter of scraping the bottom of barrel for an officer, or it could be that they have to give the command to a "Named" cast member and not some random Lt from down the hall.
– GB - AE7OO
17 hours ago
add a comment |
Could it be as simple as the fact that Medical/Support (I'm putting Troi here) personnel are not line officers in the Star Trek universe? Engineers are line officers, but as Chief Engineer, you want Geordie doing HIS job and not running around the bridge.
Consider the US Navy, you have Chaplains, Doctors, Lawyers (JAG), Paymasters, all of whom hold a commission as an officer, but are not line officers and are therefor ineligible for command at sea.
edited 14 hours ago
TheLethalCarrot
47.8k17254303
answered 17 hours ago
GB - AE7OOGB - AE7OO
12
New contributor
GB - AE7OO is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
1
Except that we know that that isn't true. On multiple occasions we see Troi and Doctor Crusher in command
– Valorum
17 hours ago
@Valorum Whilst the part about the line officers may not be true this answer does also say those officers were probably more useful doing their normal jobs which seems like an important point. One which is said in your answer too.
– TheLethalCarrot
17 hours ago
The question is then, when are they chosen? Is Data on the bridge? Is Worf or Gordie? It could be that they can command, but are not preferred? It could be a matter of scraping the bottom of barrel for an officer, or it could be that they have to give the command to a "Named" cast member and not some random Lt from down the hall.
– GB - AE7OO
17 hours ago
add a comment |
Could it be as simple as the fact that Medical/Support (I'm putting Troi here) personnel are not line officers in the Star Trek universe? Engineers are line officers, but as Chief Engineer, you want Geordie doing HIS job and not running around the bridge.
Consider the US Navy, you have Chaplains, Doctors, Lawyers (JAG), Paymasters, all of whom hold a commission as an officer, but are not line officers and are therefor ineligible for command at sea.
edited 14 hours ago
TheLethalCarrot
47.8k17254303
answered 17 hours ago
GB - AE7OOGB - AE7OO
12
New contributor
GB - AE7OO is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Could it be as simple as the fact that Medical/Support (I'm putting Troi here) personnel are not line officers in the Star Trek universe? Engineers are line officers, but as Chief Engineer, you want Geordie doing HIS job and not running around the bridge.
Consider the US Navy, you have Chaplains, Doctors, Lawyers (JAG), Paymasters, all of whom hold a commission as an officer, but are not line officers and are therefor ineligible for command at sea.
edited 14 hours ago
TheLethalCarrot
47.8k17254303
answered 17 hours ago
GB - AE7OOGB - AE7OO
12
New contributor
GB - AE7OO is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 14 hours ago
TheLethalCarrot
47.8k17254303
edited 14 hours ago
TheLethalCarrot
47.8k17254303
edited 14 hours ago
TheLethalCarrot
47.8k17254303
47.8k17254303
answered 17 hours ago
GB - AE7OOGB - AE7OO
12
New contributor
GB - AE7OO is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 17 hours ago
GB - AE7OOGB - AE7OO
12
answered 17 hours ago
GB - AE7OOGB - AE7OO
12
12
New contributor
GB - AE7OO is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
GB - AE7OO is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
GB - AE7OO is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
1
Except that we know that that isn't true. On multiple occasions we see Troi and Doctor Crusher in command
– Valorum
17 hours ago
@Valorum Whilst the part about the line officers may not be true this answer does also say those officers were probably more useful doing their normal jobs which seems like an important point. One which is said in your answer too.
– TheLethalCarrot
17 hours ago
The question is then, when are they chosen? Is Data on the bridge? Is Worf or Gordie? It could be that they can command, but are not preferred? It could be a matter of scraping the bottom of barrel for an officer, or it could be that they have to give the command to a "Named" cast member and not some random Lt from down the hall.
– GB - AE7OO
17 hours ago
add a comment |
1
Except that we know that that isn't true. On multiple occasions we see Troi and Doctor Crusher in command
– Valorum
17 hours ago
@Valorum Whilst the part about the line officers may not be true this answer does also say those officers were probably more useful doing their normal jobs which seems like an important point. One which is said in your answer too.
– TheLethalCarrot
17 hours ago
The question is then, when are they chosen? Is Data on the bridge? Is Worf or Gordie? It could be that they can command, but are not preferred? It could be a matter of scraping the bottom of barrel for an officer, or it could be that they have to give the command to a "Named" cast member and not some random Lt from down the hall.
– GB - AE7OO
17 hours ago
1
1
Except that we know that that isn't true. On multiple occasions we see Troi and Doctor Crusher in command
– Valorum
17 hours ago
Except that we know that that isn't true. On multiple occasions we see Troi and Doctor Crusher in command
– Valorum
17 hours ago
@Valorum Whilst the part about the line officers may not be true this answer does also say those officers were probably more useful doing their normal jobs which seems like an important point. One which is said in your answer too.
– TheLethalCarrot
17 hours ago
@Valorum Whilst the part about the line officers may not be true this answer does also say those officers were probably more useful doing their normal jobs which seems like an important point. One which is said in your answer too.
– TheLethalCarrot
17 hours ago
The question is then, when are they chosen? Is Data on the bridge? Is Worf or Gordie? It could be that they can command, but are not preferred? It could be a matter of scraping the bottom of barrel for an officer, or it could be that they have to give the command to a "Named" cast member and not some random Lt from down the hall.
– GB - AE7OO
17 hours ago
The question is then, when are they chosen? Is Data on the bridge? Is Worf or Gordie? It could be that they can command, but are not preferred? It could be a matter of scraping the bottom of barrel for an officer, or it could be that they have to give the command to a "Named" cast member and not some random Lt from down the hall.
– GB - AE7OO
17 hours ago
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Science Fiction & Fantasy Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fscifi.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f178281%2fwhy-would-worf-be-first-officer-of-the-enterprise%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
4
Command is not a function of ranks as I recall. 2nd in command is a position...not a rank. I seem to recall a similar question in the past.
– Paulie_D
Jan 5 '18 at 23:12
1
Yes. Troi has a higher rank (full Commander) but Lt. Commander Data remains Second Officer. Theoretically he can't order her to do things but his requests carry the authority of the captain (who can order her).
– Valorum
Jan 6 '18 at 0:12
2
Rank is largely a determinant for the jobs you can do. But your actual job is not determined solely by rank. And who you answer to is determined by your job and theirs.
– Stephen Collings
Jan 6 '18 at 2:20
1
Geordi is Chief Engineer - probably needed to keep the warp coils humming along
– HorusKol
Jan 6 '18 at 3:23
1
@RonJohn, they allowed a child to fly the thing, why not put a LCDR in charge?
– geewhiz
Jan 6 '18 at 20:04